Oral use - The coca alcohol thread (wines, liquors, etc...) thread

[fleetwood1956]

Swim not sure he fully understands swiy.
Please tell swim if this is right or wrong.
Mix coca leaves and alcohol(vodka) and add baking soda/sodium bicarbonate. Mix and leave for a week.Then distillate alcohol from the mucky solution.
Just so swim understands distillation is where you heat the solution at boiling temp for alcohol(not sure what that is) then condense the evaporating alcohol.
Also whats this about leaving to many tails????

[Benga]

yes this is it.
tails is what the remaining water + flavouring + whatever are called.

b

[lala124]

Thank you Benga. SWIM is slow so he has a few more questions if you would so oblige.

Swim is still not quite sure how he would do a distillation. Swim thinks that there is something called a Coldfinger that does this, but would swiy happen to have any links or diagrams showing how to make a percolator, for information purposes only.

Swim also has one other question. When evaping the alcohol, dont the alkaloids stay in the muck? Wouldnt it concentrate up into a resinous texture while receiving the alcohol as just alcohol? If that makes any sense.

Thanks again.

[Benga]

not at the moment, but from memory there are some in the alcohol section.
yes, the coldfinger would work, need to find the right martini glass...another less fancy option is just making a pot still with a pot, a wok and a bowl. works fine for rough distillation processes. think methods can be found online, a certain new zealander has been using this for making schnapps.
as for the last question, it the remaining muck seems pretty exhausted, not much left. but worth double checking.

b

[lala124]

Hm. SWIM didnt think Coca was volatile enough for it. He will take a peek in the alcohol sections. The New Zealander? Will take a peek.

[stonedphilosopher]

A guy I know is attempting to make coca vodka. Any ideas on quantity of coca leaves for a fifth (750 mL) of vodka? "A few tablespoons" seems like not enough--my friend wants to be able to feel the effects without needing to get drunk. Any thoughts/ideas on coca vodka?

[fnord]

Originally Posted by stonedphilosopher

A guy I know is attempting to make coca vodka. Any ideas on quantity of coca leaves for a fifth (750 mL) of vodka? "A few tablespoons" seems like not enough--my friend wants to be able to feel the effects without needing to get drunk. Any thoughts/ideas on coca vodka?

well in that case one should add as much cocaine or coca as one desires. it would be heard to guess how much would be needed to get you high with out knowing tolerance metabolism etc etc etc for both substances.so add some then if its too week add more.i thought oral absorption wasn't a good method for coca?

[fleetwood1956]

The stomach acids break down most of the alkloids but you still absorb through your mouth I believe. Someone correct swim if swim wrong swim not quite sure. Any way swim tried it and its quite a nice little drink. swim gonna save himself the trouble next time and just buy a coca liquer.

[lala124]

About 5 posts up my friend. 100-250g per liter. So if 750ml is a fifth of a liter, then 250g divided by five is 50g. So 50g per 750ml.

Its all about ratios my friend.

[libertassimplex]

Now I feel like going to elementary school again. 750 ml is 3/4 of a liter me thinks. (and me julie agrees)

[Benga]

This popped up in another thread, though it might be better off here.

Here's a lovely recipe, to which you can add whatever leaves you have, let's say, hum, laurel leaves, hum...

Benga's Tonic Hot Wine

take one liter of red bordeaux wine
dump in between 50 g or 150g of say laurel leaves
add 3 brown sugar cubes
3 sticks of cinnamon
one tablespoonful of grated ginger
a few cardamom pods
4 star anis (badiane)
4 cloves
1 teaspoon grated nutmeg
some fenel, fenugrec
optional 1 or 2 betelnut (areca catechu) dried slices, one tablespoon c. sour for those in the know.

a dash of liqueur, say cointreau or cognac, or even a little rum or whiskey

at the end of preparation (after first heating) some lemon juice ( or lemon peels) and orange juice (or peel) in moderation, this stuff is strong tasting.

let this sit for as long as you can, 24 hours is great but a couple of hours will also do.

cover, then heat very slowly, turn off heat just before it comes to a boil.
let it cool, and repeat process, just reaching boiling point and turning off heat, add half a glass of wine, and let sit.

the key is not to let it boil, or at least not more than 30 seconds, as boiling degrades.

Strain and drink your delicious tonic hot wine.

laurel of course is just one option among many possibilities.

this drink is perfect for long winter evenings.b

[Apotek]

Are the laurel leaves used in the preparation processed to remove active alkaloids? It would seem that otherwise there would not be any medicinal value garnered from the extraction process.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Apotek

Are the laurel leaves used in the preparation processed to remove active alkaloids? It would seem that otherwise there would not be any medicinal value garnered from the extraction process.

not sure I understand what swiyou means by this. No, the leaves used were not "decocainized", whatever that means.
when this was written, the jumbuck hadn't given up on plain leaves. Now he swears by ground leaves, which are actualy better for chewing, brewing tea or making alcoholic drinks. Fresh leaves are something else, but unless one is in a cultivation are or has green thumbs, well...



b

[Apotek]

Yes. That is what was meant. It appears that leaves of interest have their active constituents removed, which defeats the point of the preparation.

Apotek added 24 Minutes and 10 Seconds later...

I'm trying to compare distillation versus extraction of coca. So distillation doesn't have the characteristic taste and smell. It's just alkaloidal alcohol? Are all alkaloids present? How do these preparations differ in their use in recipes? Is one preferable? Does one have a higher bioactivity?

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Apotek

Yes. That is what was meant. It appears that leaves of interest have their active constituents removed, which defeats the point of the preparation.

Apotek added 24 Minutes and 10 Seconds later...

I'm trying to compare distillation versus extraction of coca. So distillation doesn't have the characteristic taste and smell. It's just alkaloidal alcohol? Are all alkaloids present? How do these preparations differ in their use in recipes? Is one preferable? Does one have a higher bioactivity?

for full spectrum coca alkaloid extraction ( ie NOT just cocaine extraction)
best go for maceration, or actually, the most efficient way is cold percolation. a combination of maceration + a few runs of cold percolation works wonders, it really exhausts the menstruum in a wonderful way, comparable to a much longer maceration time.
the critter did this 95° rectified spirits ( drinkable ethanol, what is sometimes known as "everclear" in the USA).

Experiences with distillating the coca alcohol were not conclusive. Bioassay did not show any major differences in effects, but it did seems that some alkaloid content is lost in the boiling / evaporation process, so not really recommendable. But this is indeed worth looking into for taste reasons. It really depends on the amount of tails left in there, but with no tail it is just alkaloidal alcohol. best advice would be to do a concentrated coca fluid extract, and the distillate a small amount, and compare.

traditionally, coca alcohol, tonic wines etc were not distilled.
in reference to Apotek handle, pretty sure this will interest swiyou.
once had a fancy for traditional preparations used in pharmacies of yore. Also picked up a very amusing french pharmacy book from the 1930's which had a couple of coca recipes, and translated that here, along with others which are more commonly found.

on full spectrum coca extracts, pharmaceutical preparations from British and north american codexes (traditional terminology and weight system)
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23273

on traditional herbalist techniques, and terminology
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29439

and more extracts from the french book, with laudanum recipes and more discussion of herbalist techs and terminology

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27788

and a related discussion
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...9&postcount=13

b

[Benga]

Aaaah, coca drinks !


here's a couple of recipe to share (favouring lovely toxic cocaethylene for a more euphoric drink) :

the tonic hot wine :

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...ght=tonic+wine

Coca liquor :

a more complex but more efficient way to make a coca drink is to make coca liquor :
prepare a pH 9 water solution with sodium bicarbonate, and pour enough to just cover the leaves / leaf powder.
Add the strongest drinking alcohol you have to the solution. Let sit for a week or more, stirring/ working the paste whenever you can. Resulting liquid will be undrinkeable, foul, but the alkaloids will have recipitated into the alcohol. What you need to do is extract the alcohol out of the water / leaf / sodium bicarb / alcohol stew.

key is distillation : distillate, with a pot still if you don't have distillation material, it works fine : pour the liquid into a tall pot, float a bowl in the middle of the liquid ( it will get hot and reflux but that's not detrimental), cover the pot with a wok, fill the wok with cold water and ice and heat gently. Alcohol rises, hits the cold metal wok, condenses, drips into the collecting bowl.
distillate all the alcohol out of the liquid, leaving as little tails as possible ( non alcoholic liquid) since this is the undrinkeable water / sodium bicarb / leaf stew with a fould taste.

Take a sip of the clear alcohol collected in the bowl, if your mouth goes numb, no reason it shouldn't if worked / macerated the paste long enough at the right pH, you're there : Coca liquor.
add whatever you need for taste (distillated alcohol won't have much taste).

Coca drinks are pretty fascinating, I wish there was a way to dig up info on the ratios and processes involved in the famous Vin Mariani of yore...the internet is silent, but there must be a pattern pending somewhere...It was apparently also based on maceration and distillation of leaves, but it's hard to see how it could have been so effective without addition of extracted Hcl...
b

[BumpBump]

swim put 15g of coca into a jog with 350ml of vodka, left it for eight hours then drunk. Swim was wankerd on k at the time and doing lines but sure it helped!
It was brown in colour when swim drank it and tasted good!

[dr. swim]

An associate will soon be receiving 2 bottles of Kallpa coca liquor.

That is pure coca liquor, not like AGWA decocainized shit.

Most experience reports I've read state that it's quite potent, 3-5 shots giving a strong cocaethylene high.

Will post feedback when my associate has a chance to sample it.

UPDATE: SWIM's associate has sampled the Kallpa coca liquor or "licor de coca" and claims that it is the best thing he has ever tried...ever...SWIM was light on specifics because he was too high after drinking just 3 oz.

[ubeRAGEoUS]

Distillation VS Benga's Tonic Hot Wine.

Zumozumo is curious what is the difference regarding potency. Zumozumo wants to make a drink enjoyable with Ringakuii, his lover. So not to powerful just right.

Also, more importantly, how long does the tonic or distilled drink retain its potency?

Zumozumo is traveling to a distant land with Ringakuii in a week.

[Mr Coffee]

Hello All,

I have read all of the threads pertaining to coca wine on the forum. Some posts go back nearly 4 years while others are more recent.

Even so, SWIM feels there are still a few open questions about its production, namely:

1) When preparing a "coca wine" with a distilled spirit like vodka, how necessary is it to raise the pH prior to the maceration (soaking) of coca flour in the spirit ? Can SWIY comment specifically on the need (or not) to add a base like baking soda when preparing a coca infused spirit ?

2) Can SWIY comment on the amount of macceration time needed or recommended to fully extract the alkaloids into the spirit ? Does this time change markedly if also including a final cold-percolation at the end ?

3) Can SWIY comment on specific ratios (quantities of coca and spirit) that were used in the production of coca wine and the resultant effects after consumption ?

Any other useful or helpful notes and observations from SWIY would be appreciated


peace

[Benga]

merged. good questions, yet no need for a new thread imo.



b

[BumpBump]

swim would think that giving the tea/lead a good bashing with some bicarb and a tiny amount of water (kinda like stamping on grapes) would help. This would probably help the alkaloids release from the leaf.
Swim makes sloe gin, and he leaves this for 3 months before drinking. This is for flavour though. Swim thinks this could be better with fresh leaf which swim thinks would be even harder to come by.