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  #1  
Old 15-01-2010, 19:08
Syphr Syphr is offline
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How does Suboxone compare to others.....

SWIM recently got another source (lol SWIM is some what of a "substance hunter") but this time it is for 8mg Suboxone pills.

SWIM tried one yesterday (swimmers can see it in the Buprenorphine Experiences thread).

Needless to say, besides the sickness, it was one hell of a buzz.

So SWIM's questions are:

1)How does Suboxone compare to opiates (oxy, heroin, morphine, etc)?
2)Is there anything SWIM can do about the horrible itching?
3)Is there anything SWIM can do about the nausea?
  #2  
Old 15-01-2010, 22:41
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Re: How does Suboxone compare to others.....

1) Horribly. Suboxone is probably the worst feeling, least euphoric of all the popular opiates. It doesn't really compare at all, it's shit even compared to codeine, which is the weakest of the opiates (even though suboxone is technically "stronger"). Of course, it might feel okay to someone who has never tried anything better, kind of like how an old hotdog would be great to someone in the third world.

2-3) There is not much SWIY can do, besides perhaps mild OTC drugs like Benedryl to try and counteract them. Those are common effects for people first trying opiates. They typically go away after prolonged use (which of course means if you get addicted, which you definitely don't want to do).

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Haha that just about says it all really, consise and to the point!
  #3  
Old 15-01-2010, 23:45
desertimplant desertimplant is offline
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Re: How does Suboxone compare to others.....

From Drugs.com:

Suboxone contains a combination of buprenorphine and naloxone. Buprenorphine is an opioid medication. Buprenorphine is similar to other opioids such as morphine, codeine, and heroin however, it produces less euphoric ("high") effects and therefore may be easier to stop taking.

Naloxone blocks the effects of opioids such as morphine, codeine, and heroin. If Suboxone is injected, naloxone will block the effects of buprenorphine and lead to withdrawal symptoms in a person with an opioid addiction. When administered under the tongue as directed, naloxone will not affect the actions of buprenorphine.

SWIM's question is...why the hell would one ever want to take this when another option (no agonist\antagonists combo garbage) is out there? Indeed, stay away unless you are using to get off opiates altogether....

SWIM must also ask OP, did swiy use as directed or crush\snort etc? The thought is that the naloxone will get released if not take as directed and that will precipitate an almost immediate withdrawl scenario...no fun...yikes
SWIM has heard of people who like pure bup and say they really enjoy it...but not many...

To back up dying's comment about it being the least euphoric, worst feeling one out there, SWIM found several sites where it advertised as such..."little or no euphoria, least desirable" etc etc...SWIM supposes that's why it's popular in the treatment side of getting off opiates

Maybe swim will ask in the Bup thread how it actually works for pain

Last edited by desertimplant; 16-01-2010 at 02:20. Reason: Comment about dyingtomorrow's observations
  #4  
Old 16-01-2010, 03:24
Syphr Syphr is offline
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Re: How does Suboxone compare to others.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow View Post
1) Horribly. Suboxone is probably the worst feeling, least euphoric of all the popular opiates. It doesn't really compare at all, it's shit even compared to codeine, which is the weakest of the opiates (even though suboxone is technically "stronger"). Of course, it might feel okay to someone who has never tried anything better, kind of like how an old hotdog would be great to someone in the third world.

2-3) There is not much SWIY can do, besides perhaps mild OTC drugs like Benedryl to try and counteract them. Those are common effects for people first trying opiates. They typically go away after prolonged use (which of course means if you get addicted, which you definitely don't want to do).
Thank you.

SWIM most definitely does not think of it as horrible though. SWIM has tried codeine, hydro, oxy, morphine, and black tar heroin. So far Suboxone is right under morphine as far as strength and euphoria goes to SWIM. Codeine was garbage, hydro is just something to do when all other opiates are gone, oxy is amazing, morphine makes SWIM's head to cloudy, and black tar was garbage (only time it was good was when SWIM made powder from tar).

From what SWIM gathered, the less tolerance, the better its effects. So far SWIM is very pleased with its effects as he has practically no tolerance. Surprisingly strong for a drug used as a treatment.


SWIM will try using Benadry (25mg or 50mg) 30 minutes before taking the pills and seeing if that helps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by desertimplant View Post
From Drugs.com:

Suboxone contains a combination of buprenorphine and naloxone. Buprenorphine is an opioid medication. Buprenorphine is similar to other opioids such as morphine, codeine, and heroin however, it produces less euphoric ("high") effects and therefore may be easier to stop taking

Definitely does produce more euphoria than codeine. SWIM would compare Morphine with more of a clear head

Naloxone blocks the effects of opioids such as morphine, codeine, and heroin. If Suboxone is injected, naloxone will block the effects of buprenorphine and lead to withdrawal symptoms in a person with an opioid addiction. When administered under the tongue as directed, naloxone will not affect the actions of buprenorphine.

Naloxone can be removed. SWIM has read many tutorials on other forums about cleaning the pills and banging them

SWIM's question is...why the hell would one ever want to take this when another option (no agonist\antagonists combo garbage) is out there? Indeed, stay away unless you are using to get off opiates altogether....

SWIM takes it as though SWIY has not done it? Otherwise his opinion/question would be very different if he had and had a good experience with it. SWIM is doing it because it is extremely cheap (cheapest opiate he can buy) and it is pretty strong.

SWIM must also ask OP, did swiy use as directed or crush\snort etc? The thought is that the naloxone will get released if not take as directed and that will precipitate an almost immediate withdrawl scenario...no fun...yikes
SWIM has heard of people who like pure bup and say they really enjoy it...but not many...

SWIM has tried it as directed (2mg sublingually produced little effect) and he has insufflated it (SWIM current fav. way of using it. 2mg insufflated got SWIM nodding). As SWIM said, one can remove the Naloxone, that is no problem. He has tried pure bup before (IV injection) and it was amazing. SWIM has tried the cleaned suboxone (IV) once and it was extremely good but SWIM does not like the idea of banging pills so he has not done it since then.

To back up dying's comment about it being the least euphoric, worst feeling one out there, SWIM found several sites where it advertised as such..."little or no euphoria, least desirable" etc etc...SWIM supposes that's why it's popular in the treatment side of getting off opiates

SWIM doubts most of the people actually did take it or they took it when having another opiate in their systems. SWIM threw his guts up and still went back to do more in the morning because of the strong euphoria. It is very desired if one knows how and when to use it correctly.

Maybe swim will ask in the Bup thread how it actually works for pain

Last edited by Syphr; 16-01-2010 at 03:53.
  #5  
Old 16-01-2010, 04:24
Chemgirl Chemgirl is offline
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Re: How does Suboxone compare to others.....

Subutex (beupranorphine) and Suboxone (beup/naloxone mix (4:1 ratio)) are both opiate agonists and antagonists. This means that both drugs are opiates and attach themselves to the opiate receptors, allowing both their opioid analgesic effect (agonist) and 'throwing off' and blocking any other opiates (antagonist). Because of this antagonist effect anyone already addicted to another opiate needs to be very careful about precipitated withdrawal. Unlike other opiates, where one can take more if they aren't feeling the desired effect (or are still experiencing opiate WD), taking more beup or Suboxone could make you 'sicker'. Because both drugs are actually quite strong opiates, it is very possible for someone who has not taken many/any opiates in the past to overdose from Subutex or Suboxone. I'm sure this is all explained somewhere else in the forum, however it is the main difference between Suboxone and Subutex and oxys, heroin or morphine.
Actually SWIM believe the main difference is the effect. Subutex and Suboxone are great for detox/maintainence programs. For a pleasant stoned SWIM would go for 2 of the other 3.
As SWIy is a connoisseur of many treats they may want to make absolutely sure that they do not mix anything (even cough syrup with codeine) within 24-72hrs (depending on rate of consumption, amount, metabolism etc) of taking Suboxone (or Subutex).
SWIM believes that the itching and vomiting are a result of being 'stoned' for one of the first times. Especially if the vomiting wasn't unpleasant. As has previously been said, when these feelings stop, SWIy is on their way to addiction.
SWIM tried to find SWIy's Suboxone experince on the forum to no avail. I dont know if SWIy injected it (because as a 1st time user the naloxone may have no effect), if SWIy did or does, make absolutely sure they use anti-bacterial filters (if the tabs are coming from someone's mouth) and learn how to do it properly. SWIM says she wouldn't bother with that though.
  #6  
Old 16-01-2010, 15:34
Syphr Syphr is offline
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Re: How does Suboxone compare to others.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemgirl View Post
Subutex (beupranorphine) and Suboxone (beup/naloxone mix (4:1 ratio)) are both opiate agonists and antagonists. This means that both drugs are opiates and attach themselves to the opiate receptors, allowing both their opioid analgesic effect (agonist) and 'throwing off' and blocking any other opiates (antagonist). Because of this antagonist effect anyone already addicted to another opiate needs to be very careful about precipitated withdrawal. Unlike other opiates, where one can take more if they aren't feeling the desired effect (or are still experiencing opiate WD), taking more beup or Suboxone could make you 'sicker'. Because both drugs are actually quite strong opiates, it is very possible for someone who has not taken many/any opiates in the past to overdose from Subutex or Suboxone. I'm sure this is all explained somewhere else in the forum, however it is the main difference between Suboxone and Subutex and oxys, heroin or morphine.
Actually SWIM believe the main difference is the effect. Subutex and Suboxone are great for detox/maintainence programs. For a pleasant stoned SWIM would go for 2 of the other 3.
As SWIy is a connoisseur of many treats they may want to make absolutely sure that they do not mix anything (even cough syrup with codeine) within 24-72hrs (depending on rate of consumption, amount, metabolism etc) of taking Suboxone (or Subutex).
SWIM believes that the itching and vomiting are a result of being 'stoned' for one of the first times. Especially if the vomiting wasn't unpleasant. As has previously been said, when these feelings stop, SWIy is on their way to addiction.
SWIM tried to find SWIy's Suboxone experince on the forum to no avail. I dont know if SWIy injected it (because as a 1st time user the naloxone may have no effect), if SWIy did or does, make absolutely sure they use anti-bacterial filters (if the tabs are coming from someone's mouth) and learn how to do it properly. SWIM says she wouldn't bother with that though.
Its not that SWIM likes IV'ing drugs. He hates it, he hates himself for doing it but all hatred/emotions quickly melt away

SWIY makes a very good point about the first use of it. It seems as though people are always using it incorrectly though. Some take it sublingually and don't get the desired effect or get sick because they end up taking more than they should. Or they end up insufflating it and getting sick from underestimating it.

SWIM was going to do 4mg insufflated after his sublingual experiment failed, good thing he didn't lol. SWIM did 1mg yesterday (.05g in the morning insufflated did not get SWIM "high" per se but he could feel a need to talk, itches, and a general mood lift. Then the rest of it before going to bed). SWIM loves that this stuff lasts so long. A little goes an extremely long way.

It is a shame people don't change their views of this stuff, it is absolutely amazing if they abuse it right.

SWIM is going to make an erowid report of the substance soon. And SWIY can find SWIM's experience here:

http://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthr...t=25753&page=9
  #7  
Old 16-01-2010, 19:16
Helene Gold member Helene is offline
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Re: How does Suboxone compare to others.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syphr View Post
It seems as though people are always using it incorrectly though. Some take it sublingually and don't get the desired effect
You are aware that this is the prescribed, intended method of administration for suboxone, right? Suboxone (and subutex) is designed to be dissolved sublingually (under the tongue), and when used for its intended purpose (opiate substitution for maintenance/ detox) this is the best way to take it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syphr View Post
It is a shame people don't change their views of this stuff, it is absolutely amazing if they abuse it right.
Please remember that buprenorphine is, first and foremost indicated for use by opiate addicts. It's designed not to have a high abuse potential. The vast majority of people who will have had any experience with buprenorphine will be opiate addicts. And when a heroin addict (for example) is prescribed buprenorphine, well, comparatively they're not going to rate it very highly. Undoubtedly buprenorphine (when working as intended, i.e. not precipitated wd) is better than withdrawal, but (when first prescribed it) it never leaves an addict feeling quite right. Certainly this gets better with time, but all these things tend to explain the general consensus on buprenorphine. Also, for addicts, you've gotta take into consideration that evil thing called precipitated withdrawal. Basically, these factors all result in its relatively poor reputation as a drug. Certainly, to answer your original question, swim would agree that from an addict's point of view buprenorphine compares very poorly to most other opiates. However, I don't really know about its potential for recreational use by non-addicts. I'd imagine it was rather low also, but as said already in above posts, for someone without a tolerance/ dependence to opiates it's going to seem a lot stronger than for an addict.

I have to say that you should be very careful with it though. As with any opiates, overdose is a very real and dangerous risk. Please be sensible with dosage, and do not over-estimate your tolerance levels. Secondly, you've gotta take addiction into consideration. Regular (or even semi-regular) usage of any and all opiates is basically playing with fire. No-one really plans to become an addict, and yet many, many people do. Please watch your back, it's such an easy trap to fall into. Finally, regarding injecting - if you can stop, do. Because it really is a slippery slope to addiction. Once you've started using needles, it's very, very hard to go back. IV use of drugs brings with it a whole new set of issues to deal with. As you continue injecting your easily accessible veins will get destroyed. You end up moving to more and more risky sites, and things like collapses veins, hitting arteries, abscesses, deep vein thromboses etc become problems that you need to deal with. Injecting pills (any pills) designed for oral use is a very high risk activity too - all that crap in them, all those binders and fillers are just gonna be clogging up your veins, causing blockages which can lead to blood clots. If you're not addicted, and "don't like IV-ing drugs" then why not at least quit injecting? Because if you don't stop whilst it's still relatively easy to do so, many years down the line I think you're going to regret it.

Take care,

H

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Thanks for the concern and excellent advice
  #8  
Old 16-01-2010, 21:57
Syphr Syphr is offline
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Re: How does Suboxone compare to others.....

@Helene:

SWIM is completely aware that it is meant to be taken sublingually. That is how most people take it recreationally or legitimately. Which is a waste of the pill.

Well that is true that most people using it will be ex addicts with large tolerances to heroin/oxycodone. SWIM has done both himself. So SWIY makes a very good point that users of those substances won't rate it highly. But if someone were to have only used weak opiates like codeine and hydrocodone (maybe even IV morphine) then this substance will take them by surprise.

SWIM is responsible with his substance use. SWIM has dabbled with opiates, psychedelics, stimulants, etc for years, never becoming addicted to any of them. He is not saying he is "addiction-proof" (that would be dumb), he is just trying to say he is safe and responsible. But he will head SWIY's warning about addiction.


He normally only does drugs for special occasions or social events. He always samples the stuff when he firsts gets it (gotta know how good the stuff is before he sells it back) but it has never gotten out of control.

SWIM has had many drugs IV'd and IM'd to him. It is most definitely the best way he has taken drugs. It is also the worst. It makes him feel horrible that he could even do that to himself. He hasn't done anything threw IV for a while now.

SWIM appreciates your concern. But for now, he believes he is safe. The information will definitely be thought of though. Thank you.


If more non/semi-tolerance people would try this, there would definitely be more positive reviews. SWIM has absolutely no complaints yet. He is not throwing up from it anymore, the high is very mellow and comfortable now.

Nothing at all like how people describe it. All the bad reports definitely have to come from ex drug addicts who are use to stronger drugs or are doing something wrong with it.

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black tar, buprenorphine, cough syrup, euphoric, morphine, opiate, suboxone, suboxone comparison to opiates, suboxone withdrawal, withdrawal

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