Cultivation - Salvia divinorum growing

[Trebor]

No, Swiy will not get one second of pyschoactivity. All he'll end up getting is a sore throat. I've seen them priced for about £xxxx in a head shop in london that I can't mention.

[bcubed]

SWIM would desire to grow S.d., both as a precaution against legislation and to do his small part to ensure the viability of the species several generations forward.

A couple questions for those more knowledgable:

1. SWIM lives in apartments and will for the next few years. Even though legal, having the landlord walk in on plants, grow lamps, etc would still be a major PITA for SWIM. Hence outdoor growing. As S.d. hails from Mexico, can it withstand an environment of summers to 90F, with freezing winters and snow?

2. Pretty much everyone knows by now what pot looks like, for instance, and growing it in an accessable place will draw too much interest from pro- and anti-pot types alike. Since S.d. is just one of many sage plants, is it correct to state that most would be oblivious to its potency if encountered in the wild (thus leaving it alone)?

3. What yield might SWIM get per plant, obviously not harvesting too many leaves and leaving it weakened?

The optimal growing environment ought to be available on the 'net, but the sites visited don't list the divinorum species of Salvia.

[Salvinorin A]

From sagewisdom...

"You should begin fertilizing newly rooted cuttings about a month after they have been transplanted to soil. Seed-raised plants can be fertilized once they reach a height of 5 cm (2 inches). Begin with a half-strength fertilizer solution for the first few applications, then use full-strength solutions according to the manufacturer's suggestions. Just about any general purpose fertilizer will work fine but be careful not to over feed them. They respond well to regular feeding but they are sensitive to excess fertilizer and will put out deformed growth if over fed.

The plants appreciate a lot of room for their roots so they should be re-potted to larger pots every few months if they are growing quickly. They grow best in light shade with no more than three or four hours of direct morning or afternoon sun. They do not like any strong direct light. On the other hand they do not do well in deep shade either. You may want to plant them in the ground if you have a suitable location. They can grow very fast in the ground, as much as two meters in six months.

The stems of Salvia divinorum are not very strong, when the plant gets taller than about one meter tall it will fall over if not given support. Sometimes the stem will break off, but usually it will just bend over and if the bent over stem is in good contact with moist soil it will quickly root and eventually send up new stems from the new location. This is the main way that the plant spreads in the wild since it almost never produces viable seed.

The ideal temperature range for the plant is about 15 - 27C (60 - 80F). They will readily tolerate temperatures about 10C (18F) above and below this range but the plants tend to grow slowly outside of their ideal temperature range. It also prefers a fairly moist atmosphere and will be happiest when the relative humidity is above 50%. Dry air tends to cause the plant to put out deformed growth."


As for potency... The average leaf potency is 2.5mg/gram of leaf (dried leaf). So dry it out and you'll get an idea of what it's like. It aint much like a weed, needs care (but not that much).

Hope this helps.

[SmileyMan]

Hi,

AFOAF is worried that his plant is sick. He took these photos some days ago:







There are as you can see black areas on some of the leaves, but he doesn't know why that is the case. AFOAF told me that placing the plant in a humidity chamber stopped the problem from spreading, but now the majority of the leaves are a bit wilted. He wonders why? What can he do? Is the pot too small? Is it because of too much water?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Please reduce the image size before posting or link to the images instead of embedding.

[LiLiTH]

First question is, does this looks like sally D?



SWIM's friend gave her these plants last week but wasnt sure they are actually salvia divinorum. Poor girls were almos dying and now they look a little bit better but far from looking good. The temp here outside is around 65-75 degrees all year so the temp should be ok for them, they receive direct sunlight from around 1pm to 4 pm. Is this too much direct sunlight?

Should SWIM leave them there or transfer to a place with no direct sun at all? Was planning also on putting one of them into a pot with some fertilizer and maybe have it inside the house. I beleive that some of SWIY's have them inside because of the low temperatures and since here the temp is fine SWIM is not sure having them indoors is a good idea?

[jux]

here are the instructions provided to MIF when he bought his salvia...



Here is some general info for the plants upon arrival, etc.

I would leave the plants in the little pots they are shipped in for a week to 10 days to get over he initial shock of shipping, then re-pot to the gallon-sized pots. When they arrive, carefully trim off the tape I placed over the opening of the pots that holds the soil and plant in place and remove the wet coffee filters/paper towels and tape. Go ahead and water them until water runs out the bottom.

You can make a cheap greenhose/humidity dome by using 2 clear rubbermaid, etc. 12 qt. storage tubs, one on top of each other (larger ones, after re-potting, if needed). You can put in a sunny window or place a double 40 watt flourescent shop light directly on top of the store containers. The whole setup is about 15 bucks at walmart, lowes, etc.

I put my large, brood plants in partial shade to full sun and water them 1-2 times a day with a 5% miracle grow solution. When it gets 95-100+ degrees, they may need a little more shade and/or need to be watered several times a day with very little ( <5% to none) fertilizer until it gets cooler in the Fall. Experiment on how much water they need; when they begin to wilt, water them. This is about the only way to figure how much to give them, other than growing hydroponically. This species can tolerate the high temp's no problem, but they need to be kept moist. If growing indoors in the low humidity, I would mist several times a day, which is not necessary with the humidity dome, mentioned above.

As far as soil mixture, i use 1/2 perlite 1/2 potting soil. I make my own "potting soil" from compost and sand, but any high-grade potting soil will work. Don't use time-release fertilizer type potting soils. They just cost more and make it more difficult to change the fertilizing regime.

An important reminder: I line each pot with pea gravel to about 10% of the pot's volume. This insures good drainage which is critical for healthy Salvia plants. Also, make sure the pot itself has big drainage holes in the bottom; widen them if they are small, and remove the collector basin on the bottom of the pot if it has one. The gallon pots I have bought at walmart in the past have either a collector basin to catch the overflow or a bottom-watering device attached to the bottom of the pot, which are used for African violets, etc. Remove these if they have them; these physically impair the pots from from draining well. Gallon volume is big enough for a rather large plant, but after a few months, when you see roots shooting out of the drainage holes, go ahead and re-pot to larger vessels. I would guess a 5 gallon pot is about as big as you would ever need for this species; I have plants 4 feet tall, 3 feet wide in gallon pots, but they get so big they become top-heavy. As long as they are getting enough water and nutrients, they will do OK in smaller pots, but you are essentially growing hydroponically.

As far as leaf collection, simply pinch off leaves that are beginning to turn yellow, wilting, have brown tips, etc. You can trim off ALL the leaves and new ones will grow back, but this inhibits growth and vigor. After you have cloned several plants, and have a nice garden of Sage, you will have plenty of leaves to trim off; wilting, browning, yellowing leaves are about as good as any green ones you may pick as far as phytochemical properties (other than chlorophyll, lol.).

Well, I hoped these tips helped.

[MLO]

To the people with pest (spider mites/therpes, etc) problems...

What about predator bugs? They are essentially a 100% organic pesticide, you can buy predator insects (bugs who eat other bugs, some speciffically eat spider mites and therpes) from lots of stores online, just do a Google search for "predator bugs garden" or something similar and there you go.



For example, these bugs eat spider mites:

Spider Mite Predators
Feeding only on spider mites and their eggs, spider mite predators breed twice as fast, making them our most popular mite control. Actually carnivorous mites, each predator feeds on about 5 spider mites a day, or 20 of their eggs. Sprinkle on 1 predator for every 20 spider mites, they'll breed from there. Spider Mite Predator attacking a dreaded spider mite.

Three individual species are available (see below), all priced the same. We strongly recommend the Triple Threat Mix of all 3 used together. This mix is good for conditions of 60-90% humidity, with temperatures 50º to 90º F. For warmer temps use a combination of PP & ML. For humidity levels as low as 40-45%, use ML alone.

Application usually brings control in 5 to 6 weeks. Increasing application to a level of 1 predator to 5 mites can bring control in as little as 2 weeks. Recommended for greenhouse and controlled environment garden (CEG) use only. Not recommended for use outdoors.

[olodumfan]

I have a quick question maybe a mod can answer. Considering that Sally D. is currently legal, is it necessary to use SWIM in this forum? Another thing, can someone give more information about lighting growing indoors

[bcubed]

SWIM has a question: as a non-landowner, how would he acquire a small parcel of land (1acre/0.4hectares max) to legally grow Salvia (and probably some garden veggies for plausibility)? SWIM lives in a rural area, but land is usually owned in 1,000s of acres, which is far too much for his purposes.

A "victory garden" type setting in a rural area wouldn't work due to the high visibility, and he doesn't want to squat on land not leased to him.

[Cakes]

If SWIM lives by the coordinates in bcubed's profile, then he may only be able to grow salvia outside during the summer, depending on elevation.

When buying land it is best to check out the local market. perhaps land is usually owned in 1000 acre parcels but perhaps there is other land available. usually when land is owned in large parcels, then the land is Very cheap on a per acre basis, so we suggest that SWIM actually check to see exactly what state the market is in. In california, the land of expensive real estate, cheap land can be found in the mountains. usually it is a large portion of land that has been sold to sub-divisions. It may be ringed with ranch land or public land but the sub-divided land it's self may sell for $1500/2 acres (no well, no electricity).

Sometimes land can even be for sale "rent-to-own" which means that the owner will apply a portion of the monthly payment towards a down payment. or sometimes the owner will carry the loan from the beginning << which means that SWIM does not have to qualify for a normal loan, he just needs to have the owner trust him (perhaps SWIM has a good job? or SWIM may have proposed to the owner's daughter...).

and like SWIM mentioned, sometimes land is for lease. ranch land is often leased out. Either on a per head basis (how many cows does SWIM plan on grazing on the land) or maybe on a per acre basis. perhaps SWIM might even have luck approaching land owners cold. Perhaps the owner had not considered looking for a person to lease (or buy) some of their land or had dismissed the notion as too much trouble and even a way to get stuck with 'neighbors' the owner didn't like (in the US it can be hard to discriminate without appearing to discriminate) and so the whole idea seemed too prone to trouble but maybe SWIM has a sweet personality? and he may convince a land-rich but cash-poor rancher to accept a few easy bucks each month.

when taking out a loan on real estate, the new owner should plan on payments that are about 1% of the selling price. and usually a minimum downpayment of 3% with 5% being more customary and 10% being the way people with no credit might have to do it.

Considering that Sally D. is currently legal, is it necessary to use SWIM in this forum?

no it isn't necessary, it is only necessary to use SWIM when the substance is illegal in much of the world >> but I think using SWIM is a good idea. The posters in this thread seem to think that salvia is likely to be scheduled/made illegal and so that means all of these SWIM-less posts will be out of place when that happens. so we figure it is good to follow the advice given in the rules to always write our posts in a "timeless" manner.

Another thing, can someone give more information about lighting growing indoors

Probably most fluorescents would work well if kept at an appropriate distance (either compact fluoros or regular). probably even most HIDs would work as long as the plant was slowly accustomed to it and as long as the plant was not a seedling. Probably a north facing window would also work (if SWIM lives in the northern hemisphere). the light from a north window is bright but diffuse with no direct rays and it seems that is what salvia likes in her native habitat. if SWIM lived in the southern hemisphere, then it would be a south facing window.

[siege_a]

Hello, a friend of mine bought a Salvia D plant on ebay about 3-4 weeks ago. When he got it home, he unpacked it, took the sellers advise, and potted it in a 1/2 peat moss, 1/2 miracle grow potting soil. Wetted it and put it outside. It had been doing well for about a week, started sprouting some new leaves, and old leaved getting better. The plant was brought inside at night.

After the first week it started to wilt, he bought a spray bottle and started misting it severel times a day. It continued to wilt. My friend recently bought a new house, and brought his plant to his office which has electric baseboard heat, and cranked the heat up to around 85F. He still misted it several times per day. It was setting next to a window.

It continued to wilt and get brown on the edges. After doing some research, he read from a few places that as sally acclamates herself to a new humidity environment, she may wilt, have leaves turn black, and even shed leaves and grow new greener ones. As a precaution, my friend built a small humidty box for his plant and put it under a flourescent bulb. It has been in the humidity box for almost 3 days, and still doesn't seem to be getting any better.

Any help is appreciated, so that I may forward it to my friend,
CJ

P.S. If it helps I have pics of my friends plant, but don't know how to post them.

[Cakes]

The salvia plant has been in it's baby bed for 3 days now? and that is not long enough to start to show improvement, if indeed the baby bed will effect a cure. It might take a few more days or even longer(?). I know little about salvia and lots about marijuana/other plants and it seems like plants take 3.5 - 6 days to begin orienting themselves into taking advantage of a new environment.

the bad news is, if SWIM waits and misses diagnosing some other cause than dehydration, then waiting will probably be waiting too long. so maybe it would be good to post a pic if he can just in case it might give a clue. and give watering schedule. and maybe list any fertilizers given? and if he can say what kind of MG soil it was? and also>>>if the plant got exposed to freezing weather? or what temp it likely was? cold weather definitely looks like wilting and it can be progressive; and there isn't much that can be done to cure it at this point except to baby it and wait to see if it recovers.

and just a note: being next to a heater will make the air EXtremely dry.

[dabryanman]

hi,
i just bought a salvia divinorum plant about two weeks ago and im still waiting on it. im very excited to start growing, but i just thought you all could take a look at how im going to do it. first, i got a very large pot and made a soil mix of 1/4 perlite 1/4 vermiculite and 1/2 dark potting soil. i've also looked up a wicking system for watering and i was wondering if you all have had good results with an automatic watering system or if i should just water manually. it will be growing indoors cause of the winter, and i'm constructing a humidity tent by propping up a couple of rods and putting and a large plastic covering (the one u get from the dry cleaners when u dry clean suits lol) over them. im gonna put it directly to the side of a window and a little bit in front so hopefully it will get good indirect sunlight....
i ordered the hoffman and wasson strain so will this be good enough to smoke? and when should i take the leaves off and dry them and are the leaves the only part you smoke or does it produce flowers?
thanks

[Cakes]

We have not had good luck with wicking. maybe the houseplant people have luck with it because of the soil? we think it might only work if the mix is primarily peat moss or such.

and i don't know if SWIY smokes salvia flowers or not. but to get a salvia to flower means it should have 11 hours of light and 13 hours of dark.

[dabryanman]

alright i decided when it comes im just going to just manually water it... do you have any suggestions on how often to water it and how often/what type of food to use/get?

Reputation Comments on this post:

good follow-up and beginning to research. welcome to dF!

[siege_a]

Look just a few posts back. I had the same questions. Be prepared to have some frustration getting her to grow properly too. SWIM just bought one about 1.5mos ago, and she is still not 100%. Welcome, and good luck growing S.D.

Cakes, SWIM is having a few problems with sally again. Just as before, she was doing loads better, she started perking up, then after a week or so, she started drooping her leaves down again. This time in her bed. She has been on the same watering/misting and sleeping schedule the whole time. And even just today, when SWIM was misting her, he barely touched a leaf, and it fell off! He didn't hit it, he barely even touched it and it fell off. Also, most of her leaves are still browning. OTOH, she is still showing signs of new growth! I will try to upload some of SWIMs pics later (I'm on my lunch break now.)

If she stays in this pattern, SWIM may just cut her at every node, and see if he can get 3-4 started, as a last resort of course.

[Cakes]

hang in there. widespread shedding of the leaves might be an unstoppable phenomena for salvia. it happens when she gets a big change in her life. it sometimes follows the spotting of the leaves<<i'm not sure if spotting always precedes the leaf drop.

And then the plant recovers and grows.

Evidently the plant likes to have no leaves when it sprouts it's side branches (i've been reading up on her). so maybe the drop isn't all that bad; just a way of starting over. pruning the top can force the side branches to grow (like SWIM planned) but along with that, the big fan leaf at the node where SWIM wants to grow a branch would have been plucked (if there WERE any leaves there). but what i am saying is that plucking those fan leaves is just like the plant defoliating. kind of interesting.

alright i decided when it comes im just going to just manually water it...

A timer (hardware section walmart) and pump (live fish section) can be less than $20 USD <<that's all SWIM needs. Gravity is even cheaper. like a bucket with a tube that has a pin prick in it. the water comes out the hole because the bucket is up higher. There are a other ways to automatically water a plant in the cannabis growing forum.

do you have any suggestions on how often to water it and how often/what type of food to use/get?

if the plant is exposed to the open air, the plant should probably be soaked once a day<<this is a guess, SWIM's humidity and soil content may vary. Siege_a was right, I addressed the capacity of soil to hold water a couple posts back, so scroll up and check it out and then come back and ask further if you want, ok?

Plants that are being wintered over/hibernated in a cold room (50F/10c) will not need frequent watering. maybe once a month?

A salvia plant can be fed at most waterings if she is in active growth, like maybe a solution that is 10% of what the package recommends? some growers go with half strength every three days. and others use a full feed every two weeks. Using a dilute formula means looking at the directions on the type of fertilizer that SWIM gets and seeing what amounts are recommended and then using only part of the recommened concentrate; like use half or 10% or whatever.

Salvia likes 'veg' formulas since she grows vegetative big green leafy growth; one that is equal in N-P-K is okay. and also a source of micro-nutrients is good. When it is intended that she flower, she probably won't want much N (nitrogen); she probably won't need much fert at all but just a little P (phosphorus). <<<my best advice so far. Sources of fertilizers and what is contained in them are thoroughly addressed in the cannabis growing section.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for taking the time to disseminate your knowledge

[dabryanman]

the person i ordered from sent me a guide on how to grow it and it mentioned growing with HID lighting specifically HPS. Do you all have any input on this or ever tried it before? i was thinking it might be good to experiment with but im just confused on how long i would keep it on/off. also since the days are getting shorter i was thinking i could get it more light so it could produce more leaves.

[Cakes]

Unless further info comes to LIGHT, we think 17 hours per day would be good. more is okay. but less may not be, except that maybe down to 16 might be ok.

The HID is fine, but I am wondering at the suitability of HPS. Salvia growers do use it successfully but HPS is traditionally a red spectrumed light. It causes significant stretching in marijuana when used during the vegetative growth period; those plants have much less leaves and branching. It is the blue spectrums that are credited for prolific leafing and close internodes. Blue spectrums are more common in MH bulbs, although it is not a true rule since the bulbs vary so much these days.

although red can make a plant be taller and skinnier in veg, it can make bigger buds in flower. red is a flowering nute it seems. it encourages the flowering instinct and facilitates maturation. the red might help plants produce things like alkaloids/be psychoactive. it has never been documented that MH plants are any less psychoactive than HPS ones, maybe MH has enough red for that? but there was an experiment where red LED was used exclusively and successfully to make especially psychoactive marijuana plants. a spectrum of 660nm was used. yield mass was only 1/9 of regular but it supports the idea that red is special.

the most effective psychoactive lighting for marijuana, where the grower would still get normal yields might be a wide spectrum blue oriented HID with supplemental red CFLs (2700K).

Conversion lamps might be a good option too. Like use the MH for veg and then the HPS before harvest/flower.

Some HID is not suited for delicate seedlings. Most salvia is not raised from seed but if the cutting is still getting established, it would be vulnerable to the powerful rays of some HID (especially a properly spaced 600W or 1000W HPS). It is common to give the plants a head start under fluorescents or such before using HID like that.

and in case this is code to some of y'all..
HID - high intensity discharge lights
HPS - high pressure sodium bulb, a type of HID
MH - metal halide bulb, another type of HID
Conversion lamp - a ballast that accomodates both MH and HPS. bulb and lamp compatibility still needs to be verified though.
CFLs - compact fluorescent lights, "energy saving" bulbs that often are little spiral bulbs that fit into regular light sockets.

[dabryanman]

I was thinking of putting a large storage container above the plant and then just putting two 40w CFLs on top... hopefully it'll be vegging marijuana and lots of leaves will grow and maybe once i save up some money i'll get a MH bulb to put on top. But for buying CFLs what type would you suggest? i heard that daylight or something like that is good for vegging.

[siege_a]

Well she's been getting worse, in a way. She has lost another two leaves. She's down to 2 leaves worth mentioning, from her old original leaves. She still has all her new leaves, but they don't seem to be growing. They sprouted, then just sat there. I just got Miracle-gro liquid houseplant food (8-7-6). First misting with it just a few mins ago. I am going to give a few weeks to see how she responds, and as a last resort, try cutting her to at least get try to get 1 good cutting.

[Cakes]

sorry i didn't get back to you, Bryan. i read where you were thinking of using the 40 watt lights and i was wondering how far to put them away from the plant and i went looking for that info and got lost for a week. so, sorry. i still don't know how far to put them either.
i would guess 8in/20cm but i am not sure.

The kind of light to get if SWIM is hoping for veg growth is a white/blue one. lots of cfls are not this color. so it is good to look at the package and see if there is a color rating. lots of cfls do have color ratings, not all but the ones that do seem to use the kelvin system. so it would be good to have a chart of the numbers with SWIM when SWIM goes shopping or maybe try to remember that SWIM probably wants one between 4000 and 6000K.

the secret to good veg growth is color, yes, but also most important at the same time is that light distance<<<very important in mj growth and seems to affect internodal spacing in the salvia significantly as well.

Siege a, the leaves falling is not that bad of a thing at this point. We have read where salvia often completes her defoliation after stress even if she is feeling better. The new leaves means she is feeling better and so the defoilation just seems, to me, like a side effect at this point. In order for a salvia to be prompted to form side branches, she is usually defoliated at that node. i mean the grower picks off those leaves. so this defoliation that SWIM's salvia is doing also means that she will be prepared to sprout branches from those nodes where she lost her leaves.

The food was a good move. The numbers on that package are a good ratio for salvia in her veg state<<so good going with that too. The effects of a water soluable fertilizer will be seen on a plant within 24 hours, so SWIM will not have long to wait to see if she likes the misting. I imagine that she did. I also imagine she could take more feeding. I say that because the only reasons I have seen for healthy plants to not grow is>> no food, cold temps or else the plant is already full grown. <<<this salvia has healthy green leaves that she sprouted, it looks like she wants to grow, so we are guessing that she needs food.

I have been reading people's salvia advice lately and thinking about the way she looks and I am not sure what the best way is, but I thought if I had a salvia, I might try a 10% solution in every watering. like dilute a full strength formula down to 10%. and then work up from there. I would expect her to put on growth every day. I would feed her until that happened or until she showed overdose. I would expect her to max out her growth at some point, like not be able to put on more than a certain amount every day. and then I would know the maximum amount of food that should be used and back off my feed% to match that point where I was when I stopped seeing the growth accelerate. I would maybe observe each stage for 10 days. like do the 10% formula for 10 days and then try a new formula.

[curious1]

swim found a packet of "Jobe's fertilizer spikes"

They contain:
10% nitrogen
10% phosphate
4% Potah

and SWIM was wondering if this would be a possible alternative to misting liquid fertilizer for SWIMs precious baby

Also SWIM found that using a 1 gallon bag with a hole on the top works great as a humidifying tent if SWIY might want a cheap option.

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good for sharing about the bag. welcome to dF

[Cakes]

I have tried those spikes with a couple of other plants and they did nothing for me. I do not know why this is and I did not try another package to double check. I have heard one other person say that they DID work for them, so idk if i got a bad batch or if that other person just wasn't expecting the same results i was.

[curious1]

Swim would like to thank SWIY for your help. He is very happy right now and wanted to show people how beautiful his salvia divinorum plant is. He is also happy cuz his second syrian rue plant has just popped out of the soil(his first is already growing its first real leaf node )

The first 2 pix were from the time of the last post. For a while swim thought that his plany would die . But he made a humidity tent and now its beautiful. Swim lives in a cold dry place, so he added a heat mat underneath it thats set with the time of the lights. He thought that would make sense since the sun heats up the ground, and theres no sun during the night

Swims plant has 3 nodes growing the top one fast but the other 2 VERY slowly. They are marked in red. As SWIY can see they are SMALL. He thought that they didn't get sunlight so he added the tinfoil today. Any help on why this is happening would make swim even happier.

SWIM says thx and is so happy right now!