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Drug testing What can you do against drug testing & more...

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  #1  
Old 31-12-2009, 07:01
Trace79 Trace79 is offline
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Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

I am in the Army so I am getting this information first-hand. Also, I have not found anything on Google regarding this allegation which is why I am starting a new thread.

There are several units on Ft. Bragg that are telling their troops that Spice can be tested now with a urinalysis drug test. USASOC (United States Army Special Forces Command,) just gave their soldiers a three month grace period to stop smoking Spice right after a rumor went around that several soldiers pissed hot for Spice. I know this from having co-workers that just came from USASOC.

I am not in USASOC, I am somewhere else. My unit did not give their guys a grace period to stop smoking Spice like USASOC.

Within my brigade, my unit/company of about 200+ soldiers, as well as other companies, have a mandatory surprise urinalysis once a month, every month. These surprise drug tests are 100% max participation too; meaning everyone gets tested. Yesterday was one of these surprise drug screenings. And, as always, the company commander reads off a list of drugs that they will be testing for. Spice made the list this time. And two weeks ago my buddies company did the same thing. They, however, said last week that 15 people tested hot for Spice. This however seems to be a fear campaign more than anything since the commanders office workers (my friendly moles,) have yet to confirm the statement. They usually know when someone fails a piss test.

Since approximately 75% (I'm being generous, it's probably higher than that,) of the 200+ soldiers in my unit smoke Spice and other herbal blends on a regular basis, I should be seeing some people come up hot if the rumors are true that they can test for it. Being water-soluble, and supposedly exiting the body very fast, I'm guessing that the numbers will be low if any at all. I personally had about 5 days of not smoking when I took the drug test. And on the 4th of Jan, (Monday, when we come off a 4-day weekend because of New Years,) there will most likely be another urinalysis waiting for us (they like to do these after long weekends, especially New Years.) I plan on smoking the entire weekend fyi.

My gut instinct tells me that this is just a fear campaign to get people to stop smoking. The Army loves to rule people this way. It's sickening, but easy to see. If it is true or not, either way this information will benefit others.

I will be updating this thread as time goes by to post the results of the drug screenings and the accuracy of these allegations. If anyone has any information to add, please do so. I am hoping that other service members will read this and also confirm what I have said to help the credibility.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Good post thanks for info.
a real eye-opener-thanks for taking the time to post details
Useful, many thanks
Good info firsthand, just remember that this is an open forum, can by accessed by the Military
people like you are what keep this site great
  #2  
Old 06-01-2010, 07:27
KamiCaze05 KamiCaze05 is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

SWIM was just tested in one of these 100% 'surprise' tests. Though not at Ft. Bragg anymore, SWIM is in the exact same situation. I will also post back here with the results from USAREUR(US Army - Europe). Wish SWIM luck.
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Old 07-01-2010, 13:39
chillinwill chillinwill is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

It seems like this has been confirmed now as the military has posted this on their main website Marines Ban Spice Drug

Last edited by Ilsa; 21-02-2010 at 05:09. Reason: ooops, nvm
  #4  
Old 08-01-2010, 20:26
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Yes please post your results as soon as possible because SWIM's husband is going through the same thing. and has been getting Spice sent to him while in Iraq and was told of an upcoming drug test so I would really like to know what will be the outcome of that test and if SWIM should continue to send her husband the Spice or not.
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Old 13-01-2010, 23:47
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

what happens if u are on active service in Afghanistan etc and u test positive ? do they send u home ?????
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:11
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

UPDATE! UPDATE! UPDATE!

mt friend told me this:


I got the scoop people. Since I created this thread I had gone through two more urinalysis's. On one I had smoked several bowls the night before so it was basically a 12-hour window before the drug test. Not I, nor anyone else from any of the units in my battalion, have come up positive for spice.

Even better information is that a Sergeant friend of mine (who smokes spice but none of his superiors know,) was shown the memorandum today that describes how they CAN test for spice now. It costs the Army $55 per individual being tested. However, the test consists of a urinalysis AND a blood test. Both are needed in order to come up hot for spice.

This means that only "suspected" individuals will be tested, not, everyone on random drug screenings. My friend tried to get as much info as possible without seeming to interested or eager as to give himself away. I hope this information helps a lot of people, and, of course, I will update as new developments arise.

Godspeed

Post Quality Evaluations:
Valuable update. Thanks for keeping everyone informed.
Do Not Self-incriminate! Use 'SWIM' (Someone Who Isn't Me) or similar. Thanks for the update though, wish I could give you some points for it. But I didn't take any.
great info

Last edited by Ilsa; 21-02-2010 at 05:03. Reason: self incrimination
  #7  
Old 09-02-2010, 16:48
KamiCaze05 KamiCaze05 is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

SWIM is proud to say they haven't come back with any negative results from their UA. It has been about 1.5 months so SWIM is fairly certain that the military cannot test for it. Happy toking.

Last edited by Ilsa; 21-02-2010 at 05:04. Reason: self incrimination
  #8  
Old 09-02-2010, 20:41
Assassin Assassin is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

@trace79 you are very very very missinformed.(first) I am in the military and can tell you now that they dont test for spice and they dont even know what it is. (2) they cant test for the substance JWH HU-210 and CP47 without knowing the pathways it goes through. they have no info on these compounds and where they are stored and the effects they have on your body. And there is no drug test to tell if you have taken it. so how the hell are they going to drug test you for a drug. first off they dont know what it does to your body, and what the compound is. i.e antag or protag. they have in no way to test it in urine because they dont even know what it produces after smoked or injest. even if they know what the raw form of jwh cp and hu was when take(lets say they had a test for it) it is usaly smoked and the JWH and CP and HU are Oxydized leaving the end compound not even JWH nore CP anymore.

sooooooo nooooooooo they wont be abble to drug test someone until they know the pathways the drug takes to leave your body and what the end product is. and to know that is to know the Herg, toxic, vivo, etc. and no one knows that yet. and prob wont know for another 10 years.

Post Quality Evaluations:
If you don't know what you're talking about don't try to pass your misinformation off as fact.
Apparently you forgot about Dr. Shulgin. He happens to know what the body does to what parts of any given chemical, same with most other pharmaceutical ENGINEERS.
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Old 09-02-2010, 21:21
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

LOL. Try searching DF for ADME then.
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Old 10-02-2010, 20:13
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

That is only for jwh 018. Metabolism in a rat may differ from a human. It seems that JWH has little evidence of legitimate human testing, and knowing the way pharmicuetical companies work, there wont be unless they decide that they can make some serious cash from this compound. Plus there is all the other chems in this series. I wont say they CANT test for it, but i highly doubt they would, or at least do it accurately. Plus, its not illegal. Yet.
  #11  
Old 12-02-2010, 02:53
Trace79 Trace79 is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
@trace79 you are very very very missinformed.(first) I am in the military and can tell you now that they dont test for spice and they dont even know what it is. (2) they cant test for the substance JWH HU-210 and CP47 without knowing the pathways it goes through. they have no info on these compounds and where they are stored and the effects they have on your body. And there is no drug test to tell if you have taken it. so how the hell are they going to drug test you for a drug. first off they dont know what it does to your body, and what the compound is. i.e antag or protag. they have in no way to test it in urine because they dont even know what it produces after smoked or injest. even if they know what the raw form of jwh cp and hu was when take(lets say they had a test for it) it is usaly smoked and the JWH and CP and HU are Oxydized leaving the end compound not even JWH nore CP anymore.

sooooooo nooooooooo they wont be abble to drug test someone until they know the pathways the drug takes to leave your body and what the end product is. and to know that is to know the Herg, toxic, vivo, etc. and no one knows that yet. and prob wont know for another 10 years.

Forgive me for being an intellectual about this: I don't think everything that any person says here should be regarded as fact...unless they can provide excellent sources and references. Unfortunately, the only thing that makes my statement credible is the fact that I have nothing to gain by disclosing this information.

I am not a molecular biologist and I doubt you are as well. What I am simply disclosing is information (propaganda might be a more accurate term,) that has been passed down through "my" military channels. Perhaps you are right....there is no test yet and everything I have heard from my higher command is completely untrue. Then, if this is the case, we have all been subjected to a mind control/fear campaign in order to stop the use of Spice. But, if you are wrong, and the propaganda channels YOU have been exposed to are false...then what? Are you going to personally apologize to everyone who wished to take proper precautions with such a risky extracurricular activity? No, you're not.


Unless you have something productive to say, and can enter the discussion constructively, and with manners (...actually, references would be even better I do think,) then step off dude. I'm just trying to help.

Trace79 added 10 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by newvsold View Post
i have just took a class for UA there is NO test thus far that can detect if spice is used by a soldier, how ever if the soldier is cough with spice, or smoking pipe or bongs they can face UCMJ

Again, we need to be aware of propaganda at all times when regarding what information makes it's way to us through military channels.

Useless trivia btw: No one in my unit who has been caught with Spice, pipes, or anything else Spice related has been subjected to UCMJ...only threats of. However, the people who got "caught in the act" have all received article 15's (UCMJ.)

Post Quality Evaluations:
excellent handleing of a touchy situation
Good call(s). Excellent input into this thread and site.
very poor choice of wording
great posts, welcome to df, keep us posted :)

Last edited by Trace79; 12-02-2010 at 02:53. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #12  
Old 14-02-2010, 01:54
Assassin Assassin is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

@trace79. there is no test to show the substance is even used. if there is i would like to see this test. but when i asked my Staff srg he told me what the hell is that stuff. asked the master gunner told me the same thing. when i said spice they laughed and said just dont smoke weed. And said they are not testing for it and for even a pee test it coast more than 50 doll per person. because when they test the urine they dont just test for weed. so what you saying about the testing is wrong and miss informed. and the fact that people are smoking it makes it even harder to find out they are taking it. the only reason they know people take weed, is not because they can find the element THC or CBN. is it is fat solluable. and jwh is not. But i do have AA in chem eng. and trying to get my BA soon once i am done with the marines and maybe one day PHD. and i have asked my teacher the same thing. he said " if they dont know the pathways and where they can detect and how they can detect and to know what the substance does to the human body, there is no way to make a drug test." how can they test for somthing you take when they have no clue where it comes out of your body or if it stays in your body or it comes out your swet glans. we have no clue what this shit does to you in long term or short term. no matter what the smartest person say in the whole world. until they do test for Herg and tox and etc. they wont know. people say things on the sight with no proof like me. just speculations and thats all its going to be. no one will really know until some big pharma pays a 5 figure check to test this shit out. off subject. but anyone saying its bad for you and throwing out so called facts are either the smartest people in the world that are abble to just look at the compound and say BAM!!!!!! its cancerouse or its not cancerouse. or its 1000 times worste that cigs. or they are going on some top secrete websight no one else can get on only they can get on it because they are special and they pull that info off that. hmmmmmmmmmm........ to this day we dont know shit about JWH and anyone saying all this sceince shit is full of BO and stop red herring!! AKA Murphey. and (maybe mouse99 but he has some facts that are interesting seeing that his info is science valid but seeing he is a chem major he could be making it up but who knows). but Murphey spitting out shit that ((((((HE)))))) thinks to be true with no chem degree. just a wanna be knowledge he picks off websights.

Assassin added 10 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

@ trace79 oya and telling me i am saying facts i am just telling you from what i am being tested for. i dont come up + for the stuff and where did you get your fact that it coast 55 for a blood and a urine test?????? telling me that i come up with bad facts maybe you should check your self?? and i said no facts just what it is. got tested passed simple as that.

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increasingly argumentative and inflammatory towards another member
Poor retort; since he/she is not "aware" of a test for spice, one simply does not exist...very naive.

Last edited by Assassin; 14-02-2010 at 01:54. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #13  
Old 14-02-2010, 02:35
Phenoxide Phenoxide is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
and i have asked my teacher the same thing. he said " if they dont know the pathways and where they can detect and how they can detect and to know what the substance does to the human body, there is no way to make a drug test." how can they test for somthing you take when they have no clue where it comes out of your body or if it stays in your body or it comes out your swet glans.
Your teacher is very much mistaken if that is what they told you. Establishing a preliminary testing protocol is actually very easy to do, even without existing evidence. Routes of elimination are actually quite predictable. While JWH compounds are quite lipophilic, several predictable metabolites are likely to be present in urine at detectable levels.

Metabolic processing of small molecules is also somewhat predictable, as the underlying machinery is consistent and systematic, and we have a wealth of experience to draw upon given that tens of thousands of compounds have been through drug discovery studies. Intuitively I would say that a significant proportion of any JWH chemical would be expected to be excreted in urine as parent (unmodified), and with predictable modifications such as sequential N-dealkylation, ketone reduction, and perhaps glucuronide or sulphate conjugation to the reduced ketone group. These modifications are of known mass and could all be easily identified by LC-MS. Primary metabolic routes could be conclusively elucidated in as little as 24 hours with a liver microsome assay, a fairly routine part of drug discovery studies. Mass spectrometry is such a powerful technique that even if these predicted metabolites are only found at low levels in urine, they will in all probability still be detectable if searched for. We're talking about a technique which is typically sensitive to sub-picomolar concentrations.

While optimizing the assay (e.g. picking the best metabolite(s) for high sensitivity, finding metabolites common to multiple JWH compounds) is perhaps a little more involved, a robust LC-MS based test could be devised in a matter of days. In all likelihood such a test has already been developed in countries where these compounds have been outlawed for some time. I recall rumblings on this board not so long ago about a german lab developing such a test. It's quite possible that no immunoassay exists for these chemicals just yet, as raising suitable antibodies takes a bit more time and luck.

MS based testing is rather more expensive than immunoassay approaches, so whether the military would use such a test for routine screening is questionable. A fee of $55 per test seems reasonable. In any case it is wildly inaccurate and misleading to proclaim that such tests are '10 years away'.
  #14  
Old 14-02-2010, 03:11
Assassin Assassin is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

i know what you are saying but people are saying that it is toxic for the reason that the nahpthoyl chain breaks off from the compound that what causes the cancer(i.e not knowing the wieght of the compound and what actuly comes out of the piss). but if that is true than how can they find the wieght of the compuond when it is changed and how can they find the wieght of the compound when burned produces a new compound?????? so how can they test for such a drug when they dont even know if the compound chain breaks off or the compound links with other Jwh making a stronger chain.

Assassin added 7 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

and saying the compound is lipophlic where is your facts. where are you facts that it comes out from the urine as the full JWH compound intact. with the compound not being broken? if so wouldnt that make it non toxic and proving that it is non toxic?""""and with predictable modifications such as sequential N-dealkylation, ketone reduction, and perhaps glucuronide or sulphate conjugation to the reduced ketone group"""" where is your proof that it apply's to JWH compound. Do you know personaly that JWH does not break off the C10H7 and form a new compound leaving it toxic? and if so where are the facts? the facts you showed to me are true about a compound that you know that does not break the chain of what ever compound you are eating or smoking or does. we do not know if JWH breaks down forming a new compound.

Assassin added 8 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...jwh-018&page=2

maybe this will help you. "I guess the more detailed version of P450 enzyme that metabolises JWH-018 isn't known. The one that is responsible for metabolism of THC is P450 2C9". "Also the cytochrome p450 enzymes are a family of enzymes. That particular assay showed that this family metabolises the drug, not which one specifically. It takes quite a bit more than a preliminary study to tease that kind of information out."

Last edited by Assassin; 14-02-2010 at 03:11. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 14-02-2010, 03:31
Phenoxide Phenoxide is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
but if that is true than how can they find the wieght of the compuond when it is changed and how can they find the wieght of the compound when burned produces a new compound?????? so how can they test for such a drug when they dont even know if the compound chain breaks off or the compound links with other Jwh making a stronger chain.
Whether the two conjugated ring systems are cleaved apart or not is irrelevant from the perspective of metabolite identification for drug testing. A liver microsome assay would identify any primary metabolites of the drug. Mass spectrometry scans for ions over a large mass range. In discovery experiments acquisition is data-dependent, so no prior knowledge is required about what is likely to be found. The metabolic process is also one of degradation - JWH metabolites will not conjugate to form some kind of 'supermetabolite' because there is no reason for such an event to be energetically favorable. That's not to say that JWH compounds may not yield reactive metabolites. This and potential carcinogenicity of the drug are entirely different topics than that being discussed here - drug testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
and saying the compound is lipophlic where is your facts.
JWH compounds are not readily water soluble, yet happily dissolve in non-polar solvents. If given the choice between sticking to a nice hydrophobic patch of lipids or proteins and floating free in serum, it'll opt to stick around. The purpose of metabolism is to increase its hydrophilicity thus making the drug amenable to elimination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
where is your proof that it apply's to JWH compound
I did not claim 'proof'. As I said the suggestions on likely metabolic routes were intuition, based on several years of working on drug metabolism for big pharma. My point was that conclusive experimental information on metabolism could be obtained with little background information in a far shorter timescale than you suggest - we're talking days rather than years. Pharma companies are routinely gathering such information in drug discovery studies with a turnaround of 1-2 weeks per compound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
"Also the cytochrome p450 enzymes are a family of enzymes. That particular assay showed that this family metabolises the drug, not which one specifically. It takes quite a bit more than a preliminary study to tease that kind of information out."
I'm well aware of the diversity of the CYP superfamily. Again, the specific enzymes responsible for catalysis is irrelevant from the perspective of drug testing. All that is required for this is to know that administered drug X is detectable as metabolite Y in excreta sample Z. This can be established very easily by both in vitro and in vivo assays. Identifying active CYPs is actually quite easy to do too - but as I said, irrelevant in this context.

Post Quality Evaluations:
You did a great job explaining this in this post and in the previous one. Made it able for even the causual reader to understand it

Last edited by Phenoxide; 14-02-2010 at 03:39.
  #16  
Old 14-02-2010, 04:14
Assassin Assassin is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

All you basing this on is all assumptions on the compound because no one knows what it does in the metabolites in the body after burning it. And yes it does matter if the ring breaks because that what’s causes it to be cancerous and produces epoxies in you liver.

This can be established very easily by both in vitro and in vivo assays”

hey if you can find where they did the vitro and vivo testing would make every person on the forum at ease because no pharmacy has even tested in vivo or vitro. And it has not even been tested in humans so how can they establish it when they need the liver tissue to find out.

how can you even say that. You have not given me facts just red herring and false info. When you get that facts that we know jwh in vivo and vitro which we do not know, I yet to find info on it and so do others. You are speculating on a substance you don’t even know what it does in your body. “All that is required for this is to know that administered drug X is detectable as metabolite Y in excreta sample Z. This can be established very easily by both in vitro and in vivo assays” well we do not know the vivo or vitro. Do you have info no one else in the world knows? Or did you pay a 5 figure check to find out vivo and vitro. “JWH compounds are not readily water soluble” if you wikipedia the compound JWH it is water soluble at high temps. So you are incorrect there.

“My point was that conclusive experimental information on metabolism could be obtained with little background information in a far shorter timescale than you suggest - we're talking days rather than years. Pharma companies are routinely gathering such information in drug discovery studies with a turnaround of 1-2 weeks per compound”

how could you test the effects on the human body metabolism on the jwh substance when they don’t know if the Chain breaks and the liver metabolizes the broken chain making epoxies. And how can you assume this all applies to the oxidation of the substance where all this info you are coming up with is for so called vaporize or oral ingestion. Where burning the substance produces a whole new substance which no one has even tested yet.

You are basing your facts on the assuming that it does not break off or produce different compound when burned. Because THC and CBN when burned produce different compounds and is metabolized differently than vaped or eaten.


“JWH metabolites will not conjugate to form some kind of 'supermetabolite' because there is no reason for such an event to be energetically favorable



where are the proof for all these facts you are spitting out. Can I get a link. Or do I just take your word for it. I need facts to all what you are saying because they sound very unsound and false to what I have read and learned in chem.. and I cant find the facts you are spitting out. Because we still don’t know what the hell it becomes in our liver to even break down. Or the path ways it takes to get to our CB receptors. All we know right now is that it acts like THC and has no structural form close to it. and has never been clinically tested on humans. So to tell me what it does in the human body is kind of ignorant.

Assassin added 5 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

""A liver microsome assay would identify any primary metabolites of the drug. Mass spectrometry scans for ions over a large mass range.""

and thats good?? that would make alot of false +. and military dont like anything that would give a close false postive. thats why they have multi test to determen fasle +.

Last edited by Assassin; 14-02-2010 at 04:14. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #17  
Old 14-02-2010, 05:14
Phenoxide Phenoxide is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
yes it does matter if the ring breaks because that what’s causes it to be cancerous and produces epoxies in you liver.
It doesn't matter for a drug test. All such a test requires is a drug-specific metabolite to be detectable in the analyzed excreta sample. Whether the metabolite is active, reactive or even toxic is irrelevant. Drug tests are not ADME studies, nor are they toxicology studies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
“All that is required for this is to know that administered drug X is detectable as metabolite Y in excreta sample Z. This can be established very easily by both in vitro and in vivo assays” well we do not know the vivo or vitro. Do you have info no one else in the world knows? Or did you pay a 5 figure check to find out vivo and vitro.
I have not claimed that such information is necessarily available. What I said was such information could be obtained in short order, and given that there is a financial gain to be made in the drug testing market, it probably already has. JWH compounds are being outlawed in more and more countries so tests against them become a lucrative opportunity. Just because information on the metabolic route has not been publicly disclosed doesn't mean it is entirely unchartered territory. It would be in the interests of a testing lab to keep such intellectual property private and their test proprietary. A '5 figure check' is also somewhat of an overstatement. Such figures would be expected for a full discovery ADME study, but this much information is not required for establishing a testing protocol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
“JWH compounds are not readily water soluble” if you wikipedia the compound JWH it is water soluble at high temps. So you are incorrect there.

Having to heat a suspension to high temperatures just to get a chemical to dissolve at low concentration is a pretty good indication of poor solubility. Last time I checked physiological temperature is around 37 degrees Celsius, and in that environment JWH-018 would favor a lipophilic environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
“how could you test the effects on the human body metabolism on the jwh substance when they don’t know if the Chain breaks and the liver metabolizes the broken chain making epoxies. And how can you assume this all applies to the oxidation of the substance where all this info you are coming up with is for so called vaporize or oral ingestion. Where burning the substance produces a whole new substance which no one has even tested yet.

It doesn't matter if the chain breaks or not because you are looking for any detectable drug metabolites in urine, whatever they may be. Mass spectrometry enables identification and characterization of drug metabolites without prior knowledge of what they are. Conclusive studies could be peformed by getting a few test subjects to eat/smoke a JWH compound, collect their urine, profile it by data-dependent LC-MS/MS, and identify/characterize the drug-specific metabolites detected. This has been done for other new research chemicals such as mephedrone, and does not require a big pharma budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
You are basing your facts on the assuming that it does not break off or produce different compound when burned. Because THC and CBN when burned produce different compounds and is metabolized differently than vaped or eaten.

All of which are detectable in urine by MS/MS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
Because we still don’t know what the hell it becomes in our liver to even break down. Or the path ways it takes to get to our CB receptors. All we know right now is that it acts like THC and has no structural form close to it. and has never been clinically tested on humans. So to tell me what it does in the human body is kind of ignorant.

I'll only say this once more because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Drug testing is only concerned with how drug X becomes detectable metabolite Y in excreta sample Z. What happens in between is of no consequence provided that metabolite Y is known to be drug-specific (i.e. not present in urine of those who have not consumed the drug). This can be achieved in by mass spectrometry without the need for a blockbuster budget and years of analysis time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
and thats good?? that would make alot of false +. and military dont like anything that would give a close false postive. thats why they have multi test to determen fasle +.
Actually liver microsome assays are a very robust in vitro model because they use liver material from real humans. It's apparent that you do not understand what the assay entails or the principles of mass spectrometry involved if you assert that it generates a high rate of false positives.

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patient, logical responses that help diffuse the argumentative tone of other posts here
  #18  
Old 15-02-2010, 21:12
KamiCaze05 KamiCaze05 is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Not quite sure how or why this thread has taken a turn for the worse, but I am sure we all would prefer it to stop. I recall this thread being about real-life, factual events(drug tests) concerning the use of Spice or relatives of it. All the scientific evidence you care to spout out about one reference or another is great, but the main thing most of the viewers of this thread came for was to see if it was test positive on a UA. More than one person have said it doesn't and SWIM was ecstatic to give my results. Call me naive but I don't think someone would lie about such results.

Stop the bickering and give us someone's results.

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Good attempt to keep this thread on topic.
  #19  
Old 18-02-2010, 01:12
artdavidson artdavidson is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

SWIM has taken many USAF piss-tests while have been smoking all-types of Spice products (Gold, Diamond, Blue Genie, etc.) before the day of urinalysis, and has never received any feedback in regards of it.

Don't believe the papers.

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Thanks for this report.
  #20  
Old 21-02-2010, 05:18
Ilsa Ilsa is nu online
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

thank you, everyone for getting and staying back on topic, well done. let's hear more!! i can see the impetus for developing tests, and it IS fairly easy to do.... IF and only IF the researchers know at least a few testable metabolites, so i am curious about seeing when this comes up here.

Last edited by Ilsa; 21-02-2010 at 05:22. Reason: spelling atrocities
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Old 22-02-2010, 22:28
artdavidson artdavidson is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilsa View Post
thank you, everyone for getting and staying back on topic, well done. let's hear more!! i can see the impetus for developing tests, and it IS fairly easy to do.... IF and only IF the researchers know at least a few testable metabolites, so i am curious about seeing when this comes up here.
SWIM hopes these testable's aren't found out on himself. Ha.

SWIM will also definitely post any further notifications if heard / found from his side of the Force.
  #22  
Old 04-03-2010, 21:43
Dibbledo Dibbledo is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Approximately 3 weeks ago SWIM was called for a "command directed" UA and can say with 95% certainty that he passed. At this juncture SWIM was smoking approximately 3g of Spike 99 per week.

I am not certain which cannibanoids are in spike99 but SWIM believes it is a cross between jwh-018 and 73.

Regardless, at least 3 weeks prior to the time of this posting, it seems the military is not testing for these as of yet.

One question I can't seem to get answered up to this point, however, is "how long does it take for jwh-018/73 to get out of your system. The half-life of jwh is much shorter than THC, so i find myself believing this MAY be a very good discreet replacement for weed for those daring souls wishing to use it even after the media turns jwh into a child-killing satan drug. Any elucidation in relation to this is encouraged and welcome--even if theororetical (so long as the theory is backed by some empirical data).
  #23  
Old 06-03-2010, 22:43
irishmike08641 irishmike08641 is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

hello this is my first post, thx to all the info about spice and military U/A's.
Let me add im an active USAF member and have tried spice before for about 2 weeks straight but wasnt tested for it, but i do have friends at different bases and have smoked the K2 blend for awhile now and have passed a few U/A's for the USAF. Not sure if the DoD does indeed have a test for spice, or the half life of spice is so short, that you would have to be under the effects of spice to fail the test. Please all the info coming and thank you in advanced

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please dont selfincriminate esp. if you're in the military. use SWIM or equiv.
  #24  
Old 07-03-2010, 08:50
starrider starrider is offline
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

My First Post Too.This is a Great Thread. One That's needed it seems. Anyway SWIM was Naughty and has been UA'ed weekly ,At Counciling Through The Local Courts. SWIM has been indulging in spice Almost Ever Day and has used Many Different Brands. So Far So Good - Every time. So Swim Thought he"d post for All.
  #25  
Old 13-03-2010, 03:29
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Re: Military is "supposedly" testing for Spice now.

Well according to this poster, the military is now testing for spice and salvia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chesty2 View Post
i found out today that the marine air station in yuma has apparently conducted spice and salvia testing via urinalysis. the crap pretty much hit the fan today, especially for mag-13 who apparently had around 30% of the squadron pop for it. a lot of rumors are flying and i'm sure they'll be additional details as to the fallout in the very near future. a station wide test was conducted towards the end of feb and the results came back this week sometime.

at this point, i don't think anyone but commanders, senior enlisted and the drug lab know exactly what they are testing for and what their methods are (and maybe not all of them). my strong advice to anyone in the military is that they cease smoking spice or salvia immediately if they value their career. i think it is safe to say that, if they have indeed come up with a test method, that all units (and all branches) are going to get very serious about urinalysis testing in the near future.

a lot of rumors and hearsay at this point, but i can't imagine 30% of a unit popping for something they knew they would be tested for. the party is over....believe what you want....keep an eye on the news and the net over the next week or so and i think we'll start seeing the fallout of all this and hopefully a bit more information....

to our service members out there dancing on the dark side: good luck and remember your rights. if you pop, lawyer up immediately. if anyone knows anything, this seems like the place to post it.
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