Here’s somethin to wrap yer minds around:

[Montgolfier]

[QUOTE=Grautr]

Originally Posted by MrCheese

karma is not about doing bad things and then suffering for it later otherwise known as what comes around goes around but is a debt passed on from one life to the next. According to karma if bad things are happening to you now its because you did bad things in a previous life not this one. Also if you did good things the opposite will happen.

I don't think this is strictly true. according to the wikipedia definition:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma


..'Karma is a sum of all that an individual has done and is currently doing. The effects of those deeds actively create present and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life'


It does also go on to explain that Karma within certain religions extends that on to past present and future lives as well.


It's basically looking at 'free will' as a rather cool tool for creating anything you want out of life, like you said - 'what go's around comes around'

[one4thedoc]

Good Day and Good Thread,

IMHO, Karma implies that there is a judge (you/God) to what is bad and what is good . If this is the case, the existance of Karma hinges on your perception of good and bad. Now since everyone has a different perception of good and bad from culture to culture, person to person, etc... How can we conclude Karma exists, or if we aren't just simply projecting.

real life example of "karma"

My friend had to kick a relative of his out of his house (in my view, legitimate reasons). He felt very guilty about this immediately following. Later that WEEK he (and I was in the passenger seat) got into a car accident that left us unharmed but the car suffered damages beyond the blue book value. He immediately concluded this was a direct result of kicking his relative out. Even though the incident happened a full week later!

I know time is abstract..but the fact is he was waiting for something of roughly equal magnitude (in his own judgement) to happen in order to solidify his guilt.

Also I believe, without fear(future) and guilt(past) there is no "Karma". Not to say I or anyone I know live without fear or guilt, but some people seem to be more of a target or victim to "Karma" than others.

This may just boil down to me believing that the after life has little to nothing to do with what you're doing right here, right now. But I digress...

The world fits as you perceive, and your personal truth becomes the only truth ( and can ultimately make people stuborn like me.)

[Montgolfier]

I agree with what you say 'one4thedoc' about Karma being directly related to your own personal perception of good and bad, and it's true everyone has different views on that dependent on personal experience.

But I think there has to be some importance to individuals perspectives on 'Right' and 'Wrong', otherwise there doesn't seem to be any reason for trying to better yourself within life.

If, say, my conscience doesn't permit me to 'lie to someone for personal gain' for example, and then I do lie to someone for personal greed, then feel guilty/regret/anger etc . then I will have crossed over from 'good Karma' to 'bad Karma' and it wouldn't be too unreasonable to expect something of equivalent 'bad' to bite me on the arse..

...after all which sientific type dude was it that said something about "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" or something. And in actual fact on a molecular/atomic/chemical level perhaps all 'positive/negative' thoughts and actions start an actual physical chain-reaction of events that eventually leads back to the source

..erm, well maybe..got a bit lost with that theory, might need to give it some more thought lol

)

[Nagognog2]

A psychopath, or sociopath, has no knowledge of what you are calling Karma. These are folks who have no moral compass. Ripping the heads off puppies has no more effect on them that tying their shoes. To use Western psychological definition: They lack a superego. No onboard sense of right & wrong.

This is why we have lunatic asylums and prisons.

[daeron]

^bullshite, what do i need a superego for? karma, go to bed nag!(you need new darts,btw these ait quite got what it takes)

now seriously: right or wrong is in the eye of the beholder not the mass, hitler was convinced to the very end that the things hes done were right things to do

i find it opressive for one, or many to define the right or wrong, furthermore i dont believe in such shit. fairytales for kiddies. wheres right or wrong in war nag?

[Nagognog2]

Well, Arkan, which part of my signature didn't you understand?

[daeron]

thanks for the insult you hidden republican bastard, but i was talking about something else and im sorry i wasnt clear-when youre already in war, so when you cannot stop it by yerself, when you find yourself, along with your family, house and friends and your local sexshop in the whirlwind of war-tell me where is your "karma", how can you differentiate right from wrong?

man i cant believe that you people can observe the world in black and white. too much TV i say..

[oggy]

More like to much TV for you. In the bible reincarnation was written out buy the monks so we would be forced to live this life better. But if you ask me its sounds a bit like the devils work. I say don't follow any religion but your own and let Jesus into your soul. Why do you think we have free will? God wants us to make our own minds up and not follow man made religion as thats what religion is. Jesus was born a Jew but tought in Gods way and to follow him not any religion.

Religion is the devils way of dividing us all and making war. Thats what he wants.

[daeron]

more like too much real life for me oggy.
now i may be weird but all that jesus stuff in your post makes me think that you dont accept any viewpoint beside your own, try to think outside the religious box for a while.

oggy, lets consider for a moment that i am willing to accept jesus, allah, buddha, god and all those concepts. Lets consider that im a tabula rasa, blank as a soap opera.

how are you going to explain to me, without the use of the words and ad infinitum logical traps like "because" and "god wants", "god plans" this or that? remember im tabula rasa, how youre going to explain to me the sense of right and wrong without your unproven initial guesses? how do you verify those initial guesses?

Free will? there is no such thing, it is only possible if we are "GOD", again an ad infinitum logical trap-->why we have free will, cause we are hindered by nothing, ie were gods; why we are gods, cause we have free will....
Free will? damn, way to much TV; we are hindered in not by our surroundings than by ourselves

um....we had a conversation like this before?

in my humble and solely individual opinion there is only one right and wrong and its your personal right or wrong, which differs from the moral definition (and WTF is moral to begin with, an nonexistent concept). one will steal from, murder, or aid and "love" hers/his fellow man, and one will bee convinced that that what one is doing is right.

who defines the right and wrong in general?
the one who wins, the one who has the bigger club.

we are nothing more but animals with a specific evolutional skills

[oggy]

I have had lots of views on life daeron and thats just one of them. I am open to more than that but thats just my biblical view. I've even just bought the film "What the bleep do we know" Witch is all about our perception of reality. I'm also looking forward to The da vinci code coming out.

So I have many views on life but we're more than just a brick. Even an animal has a soul.

I think your just ashamed about something you have done and your scared of a higher person(God) deciding what happens to you next so you try to hide behind the thought of no after life as it makes living easyer for you.

[Montgolfier]

But is there a 'higher person(god) deciding what happens to you next?'

You don't know that and neither does any one else!

It definitely does feel that way when your conscience says "hey you shouldn't be dong that"

But is that just down to upbringing, and social conditioning? Or does everyone of us know deep down the 'real' right and wrong?

[Montgolfier]

As an afterthought, perhaps we ARE being judged by a higher entitiy than ourselves, but perhaps rather than them taking an interest in our 'right' and 'wrongs', they simply enjoy the entertainment we provide

)

[oggy]

I don't think we're meant to know for sure

[DrugPhreak]

I think reincarnation is a creation of wishful thinkers. I've talked with people that believe in it and I get the feeling that most of them are really hoping that they can get another chance because they have made many bad decisions in life. In my opinion you only get one chance and not giving into the flesh is very important if we desire to be in a positive place once our physical life ends… this is a battle that most won’t win.

[XCorruptX]

alright im really just thinking here... but morals and karma.... do mentally handicapped people have their own morals? maybe they can be taught to them but what if they weren't... do their souls have these morals... are they handicapped as a result of karma? im just wondering about morals and karma though like some people have mental problems you know.. like murderers who don't think of killing differently than eating breakfeast i don't know but im thinking isn't their some thing wrong with their brain and the way they think or theirs people that are just insane and whatever other mental handicaps there are.. so i mean like their body doesn't work properly for them to think or act morally or again does their souls have these morals and does this have to do with karma.. i have a hard time thinking about these kinds of things and trying to figure them out like when i try and think about like the beginning of everything and how it happened and im thinking for a long time about it its hard and eventually i just draw a complete blank... another thing people were saying earlier like everyone is eachother so thats why we experience compassion and love.. well is wouldn't be just humans are every other humans it would mean you are me, I am a dog, that dog is a cloud, everything is everything.. living and non-living.. right? and if that is right well I don't think non-living things experience love or compassion and as for living things some probably do.. like cats and dogs it, it appears that way but lot's of things probably don't at all like I really really think bugs for example dont love anyother bugs and lots of other living things.. also I would like to say I dunno about free will... I think that whatever is going to happen to me is going to happen to me and I can't change like it seems like we have the choice but I think everything is already supposed to happen so like whenever I die I think that no matter what I do im gonna die when I die say like if im riding in a car I don't think wearing a seatbelt changes the fact that im supposed to get in a car accident on a certain day and if I do I don't think it will change whether I get brain damage, or break a bone, or die or whatever..... hope some of this makes sense but its all just thoughts im thinking while i right this.. so I hope you can make some sense out of what I wrote lol but I just want to see if anyone has any thoughts on these thoughts