Saving money through potentiation of opiates

[addisongfed2]

Im pretty orange juice would work as well as lemon or lime juice just because its so acidic that it would dissolve faster. WHEN LEGALLY PRESCRIBED darvon and adderall used to crush up and mix into a 50/50 glass of oj vodka and stir until dissolved. effects would come in 20 minutes instead of usual 45-60. ........

And on a side note, there is nothing in the world that feels like a good stretch while in the midst of opiate warmth. I would run around the block 5-10 minutes before ingestion to get heart pumping, drink concoction, take warm shower while waiting then after first hint of stomach warmth start stretching and then all is well with the day

[kailey_elise]

Originally Posted by addisongfed2

I'm pretty orange juice would work as well as lemon or lime juice just because its so acidic that it would dissolve faster. WHEN LEGALLY PRESCRIBED darvon and adderall used to crush up and mix into a 50/50 glass of oj vodka and stir until dissolved. effects would come in 20 minutes instead of usual 45-60. ........

The citrus fruits might do something about the ph in the stomach, thus changing the absorption, but it's a specific quality of grapefruit juice (also blood oranges - not just any oranges, but BLOOD oranges, & bergamont oil, which is found in small quanties in Earl Grey tea) that affects an enzyme (I think it's an enzyme, not sure) in your liver that allows more of the goodies to be absorbed into your bloodstream.

~Kailey

[INodHardOhYeah]

The best medication for potentiation of opiates in SWIM's experiences has been the prescription (in the US anyway) antihistamine Hyrdoxyzine. Hydroxyzine should be taken approximately 45 minutes before consumption of opiates. Hydroxyzine increases the general intensity (sedation and euphoria) of opiates, nearly doubling there effects. Starting dosages should be 75-100 mg Hydroxyzine and Opiates at around 60-70% of SWIY's usual recreational dose, work your SWIY's way up from there.

Other OTC and Rx opiate potentiators.
(http://opioids.com/opiates/index.html)

Orphenadrine Citrate (Banflex, Norflex, Norgesic) -- This muscle relaxant works by much the same mechanism as scopolamine and the ethanolamine antihistamines and by itself is a mild euphoriant, although this euphoria is mainly appreciated by experienced anticholinergic users. Orphenadrine has many of the same systemic effects as cyclobenzaprine but tends to metabolise more quickly. It can be used, by itself or with a standard dose of a strong antihistamine like diphenhydramine, to enhance the euphoria of both codeine and hydrocodone to equal extents, and it is assumed oxycodone as well. A full dose of orphenadrine should be taken with an 80% dose of narcotic; if available, a half-dose of scopolamine, or 75 mg of diphenhydramine, provides a massive boost to the above mixture. Alcohol in low to moderate amounts does tend to increase the overall euphoria but should be added in small amounts after the full effect of the two or three other drugs is known.

Cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril) -- This muscle relaxant is generally a rotten medication but does have some impact on opiates and is a crucial ingredient in a late-afternoon snack involving Tylenol With Codeine. The user prepares for the set by taking a 200 mg caffeine tablet and an antacid and then about 30 minutes later taking a naproxen tablet, a effective dose of Tylenol (or aspirin or ibuprofen) with Codeine and the Cyclobenzaprine. If taken on an otherwise empty stomach the feeling of euphoria rapidly overtakes the user.
Cyclobenzaprine is a tricyclic and the usual interaction warnings apply. Vicodin had been substituted for codeine with less success and it is assumed oxycodone preparations will have a similar effect. Alcohol will cause stomach problems if consumed with this mixture. In general, Cyclobenzaprine has been found to steepen the dose-to-response curve of codeine but have a negligible impact on other opiates, and mixes very poorly with many synthetics such as Darvon.

Diazepam (Valium) & Other Benzodiazepines -- This drug and other benzodiazepine tranquillisers have the effect of making codeine, oxycodone and especially hydrocodone highs cosier and preventing the insomnia that moderate to high narcotic doses can cause. A full therapeutic dose of the benzodiazepine should be taken with a dose of the narcotic starting at 70% of the usual. Alcohol must not be consumed with benzodiazepine tranquillisers under any circumstances. Not only does alcohol in low doses spoil the positive effects of the drug, but practically all benzodiazepine-related deaths have something to do with alcohol. It is assumed that oxycodone, paregoric, and opium doses should be started even lower if taken with Valium, Xanax, Librium etc.

Meprobamate (Miltown) -- This sedative-hypnotic can be used to boost codeine pain pills into a much higher level of euphoria, and along with quinine the combination can approach the intensity of morphine. However, Meprobamate spoils a hydrocodone high by making it harsher although the onset is more intense. A usual therapeutic dose of 200-600 mg of Meprobamate combined with 60% of the usual narcotic dose is a good place to start, with booster doses of opiate following no sooner than an hour later. Alcohol of any type should not be combined with these.

Promethazine (Phenergan) Phenergan VC With Codeine Cough Syrup is a pleasant night time substance which can be enhanced with the green-label Alka Seltzer Night-Time Cold Medicine or diphenhydramine. See notes under metabolic enhancers - this drug theoretically will burn off a hydrocodone/oxycodone buzz faster while increasing sedation.

Trazadone -- Effects are somewhat similar to cyclobenzaprine, both of which cannot be taken if the user has been taking MAO inhibitors in the last two weeks. Trazadone's anticholinergic activity is much less than Cyclobenzaprine and Trazadone has a horrible side effect profile including priapism or impotence and so forth.

Belladonna Alkaloids - These three alkaloids, scopolamine, hyoscyamine and atropine are used as antispasmodics and anticholinergics and have indirect additive effects on natural and semi-synthetic opiates when taken by mouth. The belladonna-paregoric mixture Donnagel PG has a crazy rushing high to it when taken at 150% of the therapeutic dose. Similar effects have resulted with combining the therapeutic dose with normal doses of codeine and dihydrocodeine.
Of the alkaloids considered singly, therapeutic doses of scopolamine help out the opiates, hyoscyamine theoretically would have no direct impact, and atropine has variable antagonist activity, and its impact on opiates generally is a wash with the exception of some synthetics, which it directly wipes out. Diphenhydramine is basically synthetic scopolamine, the anti-parkinsonism agent Trihexyphenidyl (Artane) is an atropine equivalent that does not appear to have the opiate-antagonist properties of atropine, and chlorpheniramine has many atropine-like effects (and a very similar dose-to-response curve) with no known opiate-antagonist activity. In all cases starting with the therapeutic dose of both the opiate and the anticholinergic are recommended, with increases in the anticholinergic needing to be capped at double the therapeutic dosage. In contrast to the belladonna alkaloids, the mentioned antihistamines have negligible gastro-intestinal effects, and Artane is closer to the antihistamines than atropine in this regard.

Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) -- This antihistamine increases the effects of opiates more or less evenly across the board, and the effect seems to be similar for all natural and semi-synthetic opiates. A normal dose of the opiate can be taken with 25 to 75 mg of diphenhydramine. This mixture should be taken with a bronchodialator/decongestant because diphenhydramine is also a cough suppressant. The green label version of Alka Seltzer cold medicine contains a sufficient dose of decongestant and sodium bicarbonate (which slows metabolism). If the diphenhydramine product contains alcohol, the loading dose of the opiate should be reduced by 30% and the any booster doses should be taken no sooner than an hour afterwards.
Those who take larger doses of antihistamines or other anticholinergics for the euphoriant properties should not take opiates along with them; needless to say, the mixing of opiates with the much higher deliriant doses of anticholinergics can be assumed to invariably have catastrophic effects because of the combination of respiratory depression and thickening of bronchial secretions caused by these drugs. It is assumed that any dose of diphenhydramine above 125 mg cannot be safely mixed with any quantity of opiate.

Dimenhydrinate -- Basically a pro-drug of diphenhydramine, see that section, doses are a 2:1 ratio.

Phenyltoloxamine Citrate - This is an antihistamine found in "enhanced pain relievers" available over-the-counter and has effects midway between brompheniramine and orphenadrine. It will make the euphoria of hydrocodone warmer and have a similar impact on codeine and dihydrocodeine. A normal dose of the opiate can be combined with up to 175% of the therapeutic dose of the phenyltoloxamine product (beware of total acetaminophen consumption) to start with.

Doxylamine Succinate -- This antihistamine is the active ingredient in NyQuil and some over-the-counter sleeping pills. Its sedative effects are similar to diphenhydramine and it has about 65-75% of the anticholinergic strength. It works nicely with codeine and about as well with hydrocodone. A normal dose of the opiate can be combined with a therapeutic dose of the doxylamine product to start out with, unless the doxylamine product contains a large amount of alcohol, in which case the opiate should be divided between a 70% dose initially and the other 30% no less than 30 minutes later with booster doses done at the usual interval but equal to or more than of the usual size.

Brompheniramine Maleate (Dimetapp) - This antihistamine is a drowsier version of Chlor-Trimeton which adds directly to most of the effects of opiates, with its contribution to codeine being the most significant. More than one person has reported a feeling of exhilaration similar to 150 mg of codeine when taking Dimetapp with 25 mg of hydrocodone. The sedative effect of brompheniramine is about 80% that of diphenhydramine with 75-80% of the anticholinergic potency. At therapeutic doses of brompheniramine the normal dose of the opiate can be taken; with anything above twice that (max should be four times) the initial dose of the opiate should be reduced by 20-35% and booster doses started no sooner than 45 minutes later, and then, at least initially, smaller than usual. Any brompheniramine product being used with opiates which contains alcohol should be taken at no more than 150% of the therapeutic dose with an initial dose of the opiate reduced by 25%.

Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide - Therapeutic doses of Dextromethorphan tend to smooth out a codeine buzz and add calmness to the buzz of hydrocodone, oxycodone, and dihydrocodeine. Anything above this amount may not be a good idea because of the respiratory effects. Dextromethorphan is technically an opioid in the same chemical class as Levo-Dromoran, without a lot of the same effects, of course.

Meclizine (Dramamine II) - This is effective at reducing the nausea of opiates in a lot of people and at therapeutic doses will cause some across-the-board increase in the effects of opiates (about 35% that of diphenhydramine) and has been demonstrated to steepen or move out the dose-to-response curve of opiates, hydrocodone particularly. The antihistamines cyclizine (Marezine) and tripelennamine (PBZ, Pelamine) also have similar effects. The latter is a strong anticholinergic and was famous for being mixed with pentazocine (Talwin) back in the old days before they started mixing it with Narcan. All of these can be taken in the therapeutic doses along with the normal dose of the opiate.

Clemastine (Tavist) - This is an antihistamine in the same chemical class as diphenhydramine with a much longer half-life and about 55% of the sedative strength and 30% of the anticholinergic potency. The antihistamine triprolidine (Actifed) is a shorter acting antihistamine of the same type, albeit in another chemical category, that has stronger anticholinergic effects, about 60% those of diphenhydramine. Tavist is better ranked with Allegra and Claritin as being good medicines for pre-empting the itchies, although it has a similar effect to meclizine in compounding the effects of opiates, 35-45% that of diphenhydramine. These can be taken in the therapeutic doses along with the normal dose of the opiate.

NyQuil (Doxylamine & Dextromethorphan + other items) - See the Dextromethorphan and doxylamine sections for details on how these act separately. This mixture is a good potentiator of practically all narcotics and has a particularly pleasing impact on hydrocodone. Because of the alcohol content, a therapeutic dose of NyQuil should be taken with an initial opiate dose reduced by 25% if it is the only item added or 25-45% if a third agent (the best are ONE of the following at one time):
a.Orphenadrine, therapeutic dose, best with any
b.Chlorpheniramine, therapeutic dose, best with codeine
c.Diazepam, no more than 50% of the therapeutic dose with a 5mg maximum, somewhat better with hydrocodone. In this case, the dose of NyQuil should also be cut by 25%, as well as basically halving the initial opiate dose and then taking the other half about 45 minutes later, and no more alcohol consumed in any form.

Valerian - This is a good agent for dealing with insomnia at the end of an opiate session but really doesn't do much for the opiate. Chamomile tea has similar effects.

St. John's Wort - This has seemed to help some of the stimulant effects of opiates, codeine in particular, along. The difference varies quite a bit from person to person, and the fact that St. John's Wort is reportedly a soft Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor should be considered when getting ready to mix things.

Sljivovica (100 proof plum brandy) - Of the alcoholic beverages, this was the best to mix with opiates, although no more than about > of an ounce should be used by those with no tolerance, and probably not that much more for others. It had an across-the-board impact on codeine but tended to harshen hydrocodone and oxycodone buzzes. In matters other than flavour and aesthetics, vodka is interchangeable with this beverage.


Naproxen (Aleve): This non-steroidal anti-inflammatory will increase the analgesia of all opiates and can add some warmth to a hydrocodone buzz.
It is very tough on the digestive system when taken on an empty stomach.


Multi-Narcotic Mixtures: The natural and semi-synthetic opiates by themselves steepen the dose-to-response curve of other opiates of the same class. Whether this is the most efficient use of them depends on one's supply situation.

Chlorpheniramine (Chlor-Trimeton) - This antihistamine with about 60% of the anticholinergic strength and less than a quarter of the sedative activity of diphenhydramine markedly increases the exhilaration of codeine. Both are taken at the normal dosages, and mixtures of chlorpheniramine and phenylpropanolamine (Ornade etc) seem to work even better. The mixture can in turn be mixed with a normal dose of orphenadrine for an enhanced body buzz. The effects of chlorpheniramine seem to go on independent of a hydrocodone buzz without much in the way of enhancement, subjective change, or metabolic changes.

Loperamide (Immodium): This drug is related to meperidine/pethidine (Demerol) but does not cross the blood-brain barrier in sufficient quantities to cause euphoria. However, the consumption of doses of 150-300% of the therapeutic dose when mixed with high doses of codeine or meprobamate have been reported to produce a weak Darvon-like buzz aside from the effects of the other drugs.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	excellent info
	informative
	Great info on opiate potentiation
	Very high quality post.
	Fantastic! so thorough!

[Forthesevenlakes]

SWIM would also like to add:

Cimetidine (Tagamet): Causes liver enzyme inhibition alone among antacids and thus increases the peak of opioid/opiate highs. A normal therapeutic dose is taken an hour before opiate ingestion, should increase the peak time by about half an hour or so.


Others please add on as you see fit. NO DANGEROUS COMBINATIONS LIKE BENZODIAZEPINES though!!

Reputation Comments on this post:

very good! absolutely correct

[weekender2]

SWIINod, thanks for a great rundown on potentiators. Two questions please:

1. What if any are the risks associated with using multiple potentiators? In other words, if SWIM wants to down a half-gallon of grapefruit juice and a couple of Tagamet, what effect will that have on the potentiation?

2. SWI7, you mention that Tagamet, which is cimetidine, potentiates opiates. What about its brothers and sisters in the H2 antihistamine family like famotidine (known here in the states as Pepcid) or ranitidine (Zantac)?

Pax,
Weekender

[Forthesevenlakes]

For some reason, other things like famotidine don't work as well. Something about cimetidine ties up one of the liver enzymes, but its related drugs dont seem to do the same thing. However any antacid WILL potentiate opiates slightly by lowering the acidity of the stomach. This effect will not be as pronounced as the liver effect of cimetidine, however, which seems to increase the peak time of an opiate dose by about 30 minutes for SWIM.
With multiple potentiators conceivably one could risk taking a harmful dose of opiates, which without potentiators mostly would not be absorbed as well, but with potentiators could be dangerous. This would be more of a danger when using opiates with low bioavailability, say, morphine, but SWIM has not actually heard of this ever happening. Its just SWIM's theory.

In practice grapefruit juice and tagamet will both help the potentiation, to SWIM's knowledge. To play it safe, maybe start with a slightly lower dose and see how it affects SWIY. And perhaps dont be taking all the potentiators with every dose. SWIM doesnt know of any risks for certain with overusing them, but just to be cautious it may not be best to be using all of them every day.

[INodHardOhYeah]

The potential risks of combining potentiators are similar to those of increasing dosage, increased risk of pulmonary edema, CNS depression, etc. The action of tagament and grapefruit juice are similar in that they both inhibit cytochrome enzymes in the liver.

[sterling77]

Weed synergizes very well with opiates, and also reduces the nausea. Don't expect to get very high off the weed though, in swims experience. Grapefruit juice and an antacid combined is enough to give a noticable boost for swim, but when taking only one of those he doesn't notice too much. There's also other little things such as taking the pills with a carbonated beverage and crushing them up, etc.

[svanberg]

Rumor has it that a great way to increase the effects of oral opiates is take them with a cup of warm strong tea, and then have a greasy snack with a carbonated beverage.
SWIM uses this method with most non codeine pills and finds very good effect.

[Forthesevenlakes]

SWIM would take an antacid with the carbonated beverage. The acidity of the beverage would slow absorption of the opiate, even just a tiny bit, but the antacid would offset this.

[Ethyl]

Originally Posted by INodHardOhYeah

The best medication for potentiation of opiates in SWIM's experiences has been the prescription (in the US anyway) antihistamine Hyrdoxyzine. Hydroxyzine should be taken approximately 45 minutes before consumption of opiates. Hydroxyzine increases the general intensity (sedation and euphoria) of opiates, nearly doubling there effects. Starting dosages should be 75-100 mg Hydroxyzine and Opiates at around 60-70% of SWIY's usual recreational dose, work your SWIY's way up from there.

Swie has taken 75mg of hydroxyzine with half a bag of heroin and he feels it kinda like a normal dose but with more sedation.

[RadioHead]

Originally Posted by INodHardOhYeah

Phenyltoloxamine Citrate - This is an antihistamine found in "enhanced pain relievers" available over-the-counter and has effects midway between brompheniramine and orphenadrine. It will make the euphoria of hydrocodone warmer and have a similar impact on codeine and dihydrocodeine. A normal dose of the opiate can be combined with up to 175% of the therapeutic dose of the phenyltoloxamine product (beware of total acetaminophen consumption) to start with.

This bit confuses me for 2 reasons.

1 is it saying that Phenyl contains Paracetamol/Acetaminophen thus beware about it, or that it potentates Paracetamol and not just the Opiate?

2 What is a therapeutic dose? the recommended dose or even less?

[Nahbus]

SWIM was wondering if it'd be a bad idea to:
Take grapefruit juice, 2-3 tums and 50mg benadryl (and/or 100mg DXM?) - 30 mins before ingestion
Another 2-3 tums with ingestion.

Would the addition of benadryl and dxm with the grapefruit juice and tums help in potentiation, or would there be any conflicts?

[Forthesevenlakes]

They'd all help with the potentiation. Benadryl might make your lab rat tired, personally SWIM would leave that one out unless SWIY tends to get nauseous when using opiates/opioids. But there's no conflict between dxm, tums, and grapefruit juice at all. For an even better effect SWIY might want to use Tagamet instead of Tums...ingested an hour to 30 min before taking the opiates. Tagamet will help potentiate via the liver in addition to being an antacid, tums will just help absorption through the stomach but won't help at the metabolism level.

SWIY might be aiming a little high with the DXM too, unless he wants a low-level trip(?) Potentiation from DXM happens with 30 to 60 mg.

SWIM has taken a glass of grapefruit juice, 1 tagamet (the usual cimetadine dosage, forget what it is..), and 60 mg DXM an hour before ingesting opiates, and he can say that it noticably strengthens the peak time of the opiate. It didn't seem to affect overall strength (perhaps a little), or onset time, but SWIM's peak lasted 60-90 minutes sometimes instead of the usual 30. Definitely worth using especially when one's opiate supply is scarce.

[kailey_elise]

...::: Low Doses of DXM Increase Opiate Effectiveness! :::...
multi-user report

Those I know (to be referred to as "TIK" in the future) never had any luck potentiating with antacids or grapefruit juice...in fact, I think I read something at a later date that stated that they would actually have the opposite effect for the type of opiates most of TIK are on (mainly methadone).

HOWEVER, I have heard from at least 2 people so far that DXM (in the form of those "cough gels" for ease of use) has been AMAZING in making the opiates (in particular, methadone) feel like MORE THAN DOUBLE the dose. We're talking small amounts here - after trying varying doses over a few days, one person felt that just 30mg worked well, another said 45mg was the "magic dose", another didn't give me much info, just that it worked, and worked well. Redosing with DXM later (about 6 hours later) helped the people who only take methadone once a day, though not to the same degree as when first dosed; while regular use over about 6 days dosing 2-3X a day concurrently with the DXM hasn't thus far produced tolerance effects to the effects of DXM in someone who usually becomes tolerant to MANY substances rather quickly.

One person normally takes 25-30mg of methadone at a time for a "baseline" dose & 35-40mg if having a rough day; taking 15-20mg of methadone with 45mg of DXM is reported to feel like 50mg of methadone.

In addition, one person reported that it normally takes about 60-75 minutes to feel the effects of the ingested methadone, with a quick, short "peak" of a 5-10 minute duration about 90 minutes after ingestion. When combining the DXM with the methadone dose, it takes about 120 minutes to get the peak, but the peaking feeling then lasts about ANOTHER 90-120 minutes. Very effective stuff!!

A few more of TIK are prescribed oxycodone, and one is prescribed hydromorphone; they've informed me they'll let me know if it helps with their medications (they know I'm fascinated by medications and how they work and how they work differently for different people).

I tell ya, with this information, one can only hope to have a cold w/cough next time one gets work done @ the dentist or something! The idea of being able to take 1/2 of a normal therapeutic dose & boosting it's effects 2-3X with something as inexpensive as DXM is very intriguing...

To sum it up, TIK have stated to forget screwing around with antacids & grapefruit juice and just take a low (15-60mg - more isn't necessarily better, remember that TIK have tried doses between 15mg & 60mg and found 30mg & 45mg worked best for them) dose of DXM instead! *grin*

~K.Elise

Reputation Comments on this post:

haven't tested the suggestion but interesting and well articulated

[Forthesevenlakes]

It should be noted that as K. Elise said, the grapefruit juice does not work on ALL opiates, SWIM has had success using it to potentiate morphine, hydrocodone, and oxycodone, but it does not work on codeine. Since codeine HAS to be converted in the liver to morphine in order for it to be effective, and grapefruit juice inhibits the enzyme that does this, grapefruit juice will actually make codeine LESS effective!

However, contrary to TIK in the above post, SWIM has found that antacids and grapefruit juice do work for him with opiates. DXM does work the best though.

When using antacids, keep in mind that most antacids (i.e. Tums) will only lower the acidity of the stomach and help speed absorption there; normally most of the opiate will not absorb through the stomach lining and only through the intestine. Cimetidine (Tagamet) will accomplish both this AND inhibit liver metabolism of opiates, so if one is going to use an antacid, it should be this one. More on this later, SWIM and I are going to dinner.

[kailey_elise]

Originally Posted by Forthesevenlakes

...grapefruit juice does not work on ALL opiates...(s)ince codeine HAS to be converted in the liver to morphine in order for it to be effective...grapefruit juice will actually make codeine LESS effective!

...(c)imetidine (Tagamet) will accomplish both this AND inhibit liver metabolism of opiates, so if one is going to use an antacid, it should be this one...

So, should one assume that if you're using an opiate that is made less effective by grapefruit juice (for instance, codeine and potentially, methadone), you shouldn't use the Tagament with those substances either, and just stick with DXM?

What if someone uses 2 kinds of opiates, say, methadone and oxycodone? Would it be worth the effort to ingest the methadone & DXM, wait until they kick in/an hour has past, then maybe take Tagament, THEN 30 minutes later take their oxycodone?

I guess the question is, once you start feeling the effects of a medication, will ingesting Tagament or even grapefruit juice stop the effects, or is your liver mostly done with it at that point?

Also, do you know of anyone who has tried Tagament & DXM at the same time who thinks it's worth it to consume both? Does Tagament seem to boost the already boosting effects of DXM on opiates? If so, do people seem to think it would be worth the effort?

~KaileyElise

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by kailey_elise

So, should one assume that if you're using an opiate that is made less effective by grapefruit juice (for instance, codeine and potentially, methadone), you shouldn't use the Tagament with those substances either, and just stick with DXM?

Not sure, actually. Tagamet and grapefruit juice both tie up liver enzymes, but SWIM is not sure that its the SAME one. He hasnt heard of Tagamet making anything less potent, so it may operate on a different metabolic enzyme. But to be safe, why not just stick with DXM?

Originally Posted by kailey_elise

What if someone uses 2 kinds of opiates, say, methadone and oxycodone? Would it be worth the effort to ingest the methadone & DXM, wait until they kick in/an hour has past, then maybe take Tagament, THEN 30 minutes later take their oxycodone?

Seems to SWIM like this would work. Just be careful to let the methadone start manifesting its effects before dosing on the oxy...methadone apparently can take some time before the effects are felt, so re-dosing can be dangerous if one only waits an hour and thinks nothing is happening.

Originally Posted by kailey_elise

I guess the question is, once you start feeling the effects of a medication, will ingesting Tagament or even grapefruit juice stop the effects, or is your liver mostly done with it at that point?

Once one starts feeling the effects, its probably too late to abort the effects with Tagamet or grapefruit juice. These things usually have to be taken 30-60 minutes beforehand to fully work.

Originally Posted by kailey_elise

Also, do you know of anyone who has tried Tagament & DXM at the same time who thinks it's worth it to consume both? Does Tagament seem to boost the already boosting effects of DXM on opiates? If so, do people seem to think it would be worth the effort?

SWIM's tried both at the same time, he says its worth the effort to use both, it seemed to give him a longer peak than DXM or tagamet alone, but only by 30 minutes or so.

[howlongisthenight]

Any lab rats out there have a method of potentiating tramadol?

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by howlongisthenight

Any lab rats out there have a method of potentiating tramadol?

Tramadol already absorbs through the stomach pretty well, so the antacids are pretty much ruled out, as are most things pertaining to first pass metabolism. Tagamet or a SMALL bit of dxm (30 mg max, maybe 15 mg) could potentiate tramadol if taken an hour before, but the DXM and tramadol combination sounds unpleasant if not dangerous (due to a slight risk of serotonin syndrome) to SWIM, although some lab rats report enjoying the DXM and tramadol combo. SWIM would just advise against it. Tramadol is structurally different than other opioids so SWIM is not fully sure what else would work aside from DXM or tagamet.

[rxbandit]

you are all aware they make grapefruit extract pills, which may save chugging excessive amounts of grapefruit juice. i know ive seen them around ill look into the brand names and such.

[DrMuffy]

Since adding a small amount of baking soda to rectal solutions can help the ph level and absorption, wouldnt it be the same concept if SWIY took it orally instead?

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by DrMuffy

Since adding a small amount of baking soda to rectal solutions can help the ph level and absorption, wouldnt it be the same concept if SWIY took it orally instead?

This is suppose to work with MDMA orally so i assume the same applies to opiates...

[zera]

Originally Posted by DrMuffy

Since adding a small amount of baking soda to rectal solutions can help the ph level and absorption, wouldnt it be the same concept if SWIY took it orally instead?

Of course, this is the reason why people often take antacids with oral opiates. Opiates are acidic so anything that lowers your stomach's pH will increase absorption.

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by zera

Opiates are acidic so anything that lowers your stomach's pH will increase absorption.

This is technically incorrect, although SWIY was right that taking antacids helps. Opiates, like most psychoactive drugs, are actually alkaloids (basic). The stomach is highly acidic, so basic compounds will want to remain there in order to form salts. By taking antacids, it makes the stomach slightly more basic and will thus push other basic compounds out of the stomach, including opioids. Alot of the absorption takes place in the more pH neutral intestine, however, where opioids may more easily leave since they are not attracted by any strong acids there, as they would be in the stomach.