Saving money through potentiation of opiates

[allyourbase]

the easiest fashion of potentiating your opiates is through time potentiation with antacids, this of course only works with oral users. you can easily squeeze another 4 hours of high out of 2 medium strength tums taken with your dose.


now a more tricky potentiation is with grapefruit juice. you should only take about 2/3rds of your average dose when you do this. drink the juice one full half hour prior to dosing, then eat some antacids to nuetralize the citric acid's raising of your stomach PH. this affects both the time and intensity of the experience. particularly with dihydromorphinones.


save your dope, but dont sacrifice the high!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	I've seen you do some good posts.
	tums definitly help strength and duration!!
	Brilliant post, though don't forget about ol' Tagamet :)

[daveman]

hm very interesting, so would this work with snorting too? as some of it goes into your throat?

[Zandorf]

i think grapefruit juice would work with snorting since i beleive your
liver is still involved in metabolizing things which are snorted. i
don't beleive the antacids would have much effect on insufflated
opiates although i could be wrong.<!--
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[Beltane]

Sorry, I don't know what dihydromorphinones are. I searched and found a couple references to them, both by allyourbase</span>,
but I still don't know what they are. Will grapefruit juice and
tums make a vicodin nite better/longer? And what are
dihydromorphinones?



Thanks-



- B

[allyourbase]

dihydromorphinones include but are not limited to:


hydrocodone


codeineone


hydrmorphone


oxycodone


oxymorphone


and yes, yes they will. with hydrocodone alone Im a 140 mg a day user. potentiated with grapefruit juice I start nodding @ 40 mg. alone hydrocodone rarely lasts longer than 8 hours, with grapefruit juice it rarely lets you down before 12. the idea of grapefruit juice is to consume it before hand. it inhibits certain cytosomes in the liver. thereby allowing more of the product to pass through the liver and into your brain.Edited by: allyourbase

[Handle]

Hey allyourbase, you seem to know what you're talking about. What one is interested in, [and this really is purely theoretical, seriously, because I take bupenorphine every two days as a perfectly legal and legitimate prescribed med for maintenance therapy, and I don't want to screw it up by messing around with this stuff again], but my question is what makes "hydro" versions stronger? It is understood that William Burroughs was not a real expert, but he said that the acetylation of heroin makes it work better than morphine because it can better 'conform', or hitch to, the receptor.
He said it was pretty simple [and strangely enough one read that there was once a specialised prescription only vitamin b therapy where the particular vitamin, whatever it was, it was acetylated too, and that somehow made it work better!] and a matter of how accessible the substance was made to the body. So, admitting ignorance, about whether it is a matter of bioavailability to boost the levels that make it unmetabolised through the body's various barriers, thus achieving higher levels where desired [the brain] or if it is about better mimicking of natural endorphins that does it, the only thing that is known is that hydromorphone is stronger than morphine, diacetylmorphine is stronger than morphine and hydrocodone is definitely stronger than codeine, although while it is swim's personal belief that 'dihydrocodeine' is a little stronger than plain codeine, could someone answer two questions
1. Are the hydro and dihydro groups thought to be stronger because a) they can pass through the gut better b) they can cross the blood brain barrier better or c) they can survive intact and once at receptor sites, are more effective than their non hydro cousins at mimicking endogenous opioid peptides
2. If the hydroxy or hydroxyl groups are in the same position as the acetyl groups on heroin, can they survive liver metabolism, or are they always broken down unless snorted, smoked injected in order to bypass the liver [the same as heroin]...
Finally, a last question on the derivatives of codeine, this one has really been bugging SWIM, IF the hydroxy groups on dihydrocodeine or hydrocodone ARE at the same positions as the acetyl groups are on heroin, and IF they can make it past the liver when taken orally, does this mean that when the methyl groups are dealt with [by the other enzyme that turns normal codeine into morphine] that hydro forms of codeine could become hydro forms of morphine?
So, for example can hydrocodone become hydromorphone? If the human body turns codeine into morphine, is the above stated change possible at all?? Would it be possible if done orally, or would it have to be done in one of the other ways in order to avoid the liver?

[pse001]

My friend has tried the Tums thing, and doesn't seem to see any difference in duration. Tried it many times. Maybe has something to do with personal pH? He just hasn't seen the expected result snorting 80mg oxycontin and chewing two or three Tums or other calcium carbonate-based antacids, or sodium-based antacids either. Curious....and the dxm just caused full-body cramping that made him leave work early with extremely uncomfortable sensations in every muscle, very nearly went to Emerg. room....that scary....

[Beltane]

So better for your liver as less acetominphen too, no?



- B

[McDiggy]

Grapefruit juice is an inhibitor of CYP3A4, which is a minor
metabolizer of hydrocodone and a major
metabolizer of acetaminophen. What this means is that degree to
which plasma concentrations of acetaminophen increase would be much
greater than the degree to which plasma levels of hydrocodone would
increase; thus the risk of liver toxicity is actually higher.



The OTC antihistimine chlorpheniramine is an inhibitor of CYP2D6 and
may help you accomplish what you seek. Warning though, high doses
would potentiate the "narcotic's constipation" that is often seen with
excessive opiod use.
Edited by: McDiggy

Reputation Comments on this post:

I wish all info. in this forum could be like this:informed, clear & sensible.

[Beltane]

Thanks to a cool doc, SWIM now has a big bottle of 10/325's. So now the questions:


How much grapefruit juice?


You want the real, pure stuff, right? How about the stuff that's a blend of pure and fake?


Why does the antacid thing work at all?


When using grapefruit, what if you want to re-dose? Say you do grapefruit (how much BTW?), then 1/2 hr. later you take 2 tums and 40mg hydro, then in a couple hours you want to take more hydro? Do you re-do the grapefruit thing and the tums or just eat more hydro or what?


Oh yeah, when you say "empty stomach," how strict is that? Say you've had some juice and maybe some tea or coffee, but no food. Could you take the grapefruit and go from there, or do you need to be really empty?


Thanks-


- B


EDIT: SWIM will likely try 3 10/325's w/ 2 tums to start. Maybe more later. Do you take more tums w/ each dose?Edited by: Beltane

[korky8097]

does the tums actually make it more intense or just last longer?
I think i will give this a shot friday. Do you need alot of
grapfruit juice? I was thinking of splitting a bottle (not sure
how many oz's) wiht a friend cuz of the taste.

[Ethyl]

Originally Posted by korky8097

does the tums actually make it more intense or just last longer?
I think i will give this a shot friday. Do you need alot of
grapfruit juice? I was thinking of splitting a bottle (not sure
how many oz's) wiht a friend cuz of the taste.

Maybe both.. A basic (non-acidic) stomach increases absorption, and a basic blood makes drugs stay more time in the blood. I don't know if tums make the blood more basic but i believe that to some point it can.

[dr.gonzo]

Will orange juice work? I have heard that it also potentiates opiates, but I wasn't sure if it was true. I ask this because I am not the biggest grapefruit juice fan, but I always have some OJ lying around. Edited by: dr.gonzo

[Beltane]

SWIM drank about 20 oz. of grapefruit juice. Only planned to
drink 8 but it was so good. Experience lasted longer and it was
more intense at the usual dosage. Can't say as surely about
lasting longer as he did more, of course, after getting going.
Felt like it laster longer.



- B

[McDiggy]

Answers to the above:



No, orange juice won't work - it is not a potent inhibitor of those liver enzymes.



Don't drink gallons of grapefruit juice because it inhibits the
metabolism of the acetaminophen at a greater rate the the HCN.
That means liver toxicity will be realized faster.




Edited by: McDiggy

[Beltane]

SWIM has been messing around more with this and tho the results are not very scientific, they are indeed impressive.



He drinks 8 - 12 oz. grapefruit juice on an empty stomach. He
then takes 2 tums w/ 3 - 4 Norcos (10/325.) He'll usually take a
few more throughout the day, taking another tums or two with each
one. They seem to work harder and last longer than they ever did
in the past.



Thanks all-



- B

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[allyourbase]

I myself use minute maid ruby red grapefruit juice. its only about 100 ml of actual grapefruit juice in a 300 ml bottle (the rest is water and sugar). one bottle is plenty. the acetominophen need not be an issue. extract it if you must, or get some norco like the rest of the civilized world.

[korky8097]

im going to give this a go with snorted 4mg of dilaudid, I wish to get
the most out of it as possible. Ill probably split a bottle with
my friend. Ill get back to yall on friday.

[bigt]

tommorow on the way to work im stoping for tums and grapfruit juice thats all im saying... sounds like an offer i cant refuse

[Svperstar]

hmmm this is all very interesting, I will have to test it out tommorow night with ~50 mgs of Oxy.

I must say I am skeptical though, I have never heard about this anywhere else.

[Beltane]

So grapefruit juice 1/2 hr. before Norco I get.



Do you take the antacids WITH the Norco or a few minutes BEFORE to give them time to neutralize the acid in the stomach?



Thanks-



- B

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[Herbal Remedy]

i wonder does this work with other drugs other than just opiates like weed for instance? also would cranberry juice work too or does it have to be grapefruit juice (im not quite sure what about the grapefruit juice does the trick)... thanks for any help, peace...

[TheArchetect]

Originally Posted by Herbal Remedy

i wonder does this work with other drugs other than just opiates like weed for instance? also would cranberry juice work too or does it have to be grapefruit juice (im not quite sure what about the grapefruit juice does the trick)... thanks for any help, peace...

This actually is debatable on opiates... but BENZOs like Xanax and Klonipan / Diazapam say on the bottle that they will be potentated by grapefruit juice. This is unpleasant on the doses SWIM is on though, as it is unreliable absorption rate in the GI tract. Thus one min SWIM is amazing the next SWIM may be sinking. Not one to judge or deny another SWIM er their rights of passage. BE SAFE AND DON'T PANIC! PLUR

[psilocybley]

Hi I'm new here but here's my two cents.

If Mitragynine and 7-Hydroxymitragynine (2 major alkaloids in Kratom) both act on the three opioid receptors, especially the μ receptor at higher doses, then it seems like Kratom extract would give SMIY an extra boost in their opiate buzz. SWIM just had surgery and took 10mg of Hydrocodone along with aprox. 2 grams of 15x extract brewed as a tea; according to him he feels way more doped up than he should for just 10mg.

Something to think about.

[warandhate]

what potentiates morphine?