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  #1  
Old 08-11-2009, 21:26
The.KK The.KK is offline
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Vaping with e-cigarette

SWIM has ordered an electronic cigarette and some JWH-018 recently and is still waiting to receive them.

He wants an opinion before trying this out. He is wondering if it's possible to put JWH-018 into the e-liquid (which contains nicotine) and vape it.

He is pretty sure that putting one dose (1-3mg) and 1-2 drops (which is enough for just one session) will work because his friend tried putting hash in there and it worked.

But he is wondering if JWH-018 is soluble in Glycerol or Propylene glycol. If it is then would it be possible to dilute a good amount of JWH-018 into a full cartridge of the liquid (after calculating the proportions i.e. amount of puffs taken usually, with the amount of liquid used) and end up with a device that will vape nicotine and JWH with no smell and at any place at any time.

Of course, SWIM is aware that if more than one dose of JWH is put into the cartridge he should be careful not to over do it or smoke too much.

He wants your opinion on this, he will eventually try it once he receives both products.

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Very interesting topic, thanks for posting it. Let us know how it goes!
good topic
  #2  
Old 08-11-2009, 21:57
acer0169 acer0169 is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

SWIM isn't sure whether it would work or not, though he would kinda' expect it to. Either way, please post back with your findings as this could be a great way to store and take JWH-018 on the move.
  #3  
Old 08-11-2009, 22:21
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

SWIM isn't sure either, but SWIY please keep us posted because this could be an extremely useful idea.
  #4  
Old 09-11-2009, 03:06
twoiko twoiko is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

2 has been looking into this for a while and has a few different vaporizer/diffuser ideas going around... He just needs some JWH-018 to try out...

2 is wondering what different kinds of e-cigs there are and which ones are easier to make your own liquid for? 2 does not like the idea of nicotine mixed with anything if he doesn't smoke cigs usually...
  #5  
Old 09-11-2009, 03:13
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

brilliant idea swim has always wondered how he could turn his e cig into something a little more interesting!
  #6  
Old 09-11-2009, 03:31
The.KK The.KK is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Quote:
Originally Posted by twoiko View Post
2 has been looking into this for a while and has a few different vaporizer/diffuser ideas going around... He just needs some JWH-018 to try out...

2 is wondering what different kinds of e-cigs there are and which ones are easier to make your own liquid for? 2 does not like the idea of nicotine mixed with anything if he doesn't smoke cigs usually...
There are a lot of different kinds of e-cigs out there. 2 should check e-cig forums to find which one suits 2's needs the best. Although the Joyetech 510 and Intellicig's EVOlution are popular brands.

The liquids are either premade or 2 can make his own, 2 doesn't need specific liquid for each kind of e-cig. All liquids should be good for any e-cig. And there are liquids with no nicotine available.

SWIM will let you all know once he tries this out... unfortunately it might take a week or two before he receives everything.
  #7  
Old 09-11-2009, 09:11
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Would it be possible to make a liquid which only contained JWH-018 but was safe to vapourise? SWIM wouldn't want to breathe a load of acetone vapour in for example.. there must be a safe solution that can be made?

Does anyone know what the base ingredients are for the 'normal' e-liquid? Like what goes into it? Then we could mix up the same ingredients only add 018 instead of nicotine.

SWIM is also not interested in smoking / vapourising any nicotine as he doesn't smoke normally.
  #8  
Old 09-11-2009, 14:43
The.KK The.KK is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Quote:
Originally Posted by acer0169 View Post
Would it be possible to make a liquid which only contained JWH-018 but was safe to vapourise? SWIM wouldn't want to breathe a load of acetone vapour in for example.. there must be a safe solution that can be made?

Does anyone know what the base ingredients are for the 'normal' e-liquid? Like what goes into it? Then we could mix up the same ingredients only add 018 instead of nicotine.

SWIM is also not interested in smoking / vapourising any nicotine as he doesn't smoke normally.
e-liquid = liquid used for the e-cigs

SWIM believes it is possible to put one dose into a little bit of the pre-made e-liquid and that it will work, regardless if it's soluble or not. But it doesn't answer the question whether it can be stored and controlled (dosage) that way.

SWIY dooes not need to mix his own e-liquid... he can but people only do it to have a better flavor, otherwise they're all basically the same or almost. There are non-nicotine e-liquids available, SWIY could simply add JWH to it. The question is still if it's soluble in the e-liquid, if it is then it's great! If not then someone could possibly dilute the JWH into something that it is soluble in and then mix it with the e-liquid. This might work.

For the composition of the liquid, SWIY should go on wikipedia, search for electronic cigarette and click on the nicotine solution link in the table of contents (SWIM cannot post links lol).

SWIM really wonders if it's soluble in the glycol.

Here's an example why SWIM is wondering about this:

Say someone puts 20mg of the JWH into the cartridge. If it is not soluble in the glycol then the solution will not be homogenous. Therefore while vaping it SWIY might get a 0.5 chuck or suddenly get a 3-5mg chunk... not a very safe method. This is why it would only be possible to mix a single dose if that's the case.

If, however, it is soluble, then for every mL there will be the same amount of JWH. Thus a very controlled and consistent substance, and more than a single dose would be safe to put into a cartridge.
  #9  
Old 09-11-2009, 15:49
Tamis Tamis is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

The solvent for the solution of those e-cigarettes is : Propylene glycol

Propylene glycol is used:

* As a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations. Notably, diazepam, which is insoluble in water (same for jwh-018 as far as swim knows), uses propylene glycol as its solvent in its clinical, injectable form.
So it seems it could actually work

ps : Propylene Glycol isn't the only substrate it seems...
ps2 : no people.... don't vape diazepam...

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good to see warnings on this dangerous example.

Last edited by Tamis; 09-11-2009 at 16:04. Reason: Precision concerning the fact propylen glycol isn't the only solvent used
  #10  
Old 09-11-2009, 22:36
twoiko twoiko is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Okay, after reading through some of the e-cig forums I've learned they use mostly Propylene glycol or Vegetable Glycerine. Any (more) info whether any useful substances are soluble in those?

2 has also noticed it's probably going to be difficult to import to Canada as Wiki mentions. 2 is finding it difficult to find reliable cheap e-cigs within Canada unfortunately; most likely because of this.

Last edited by twoiko; 09-11-2009 at 22:44.
  #11  
Old 10-11-2009, 07:03
The.KK The.KK is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Quote:
Originally Posted by twoiko View Post
Okay, after reading through some of the e-cig forums I've learned they use mostly Propylene glycol or Vegetable Glycerine. Any (more) info whether any useful substances are soluble in those?

2 has also noticed it's probably going to be difficult to import to Canada as Wiki mentions. 2 is finding it difficult to find reliable cheap e-cigs within Canada unfortunately; most likely because of this.
Yea SWIM as warned the guy on the phone now how make it pass through customs better. SWIM knows someone who sell them in canada, so if it doesn't work than SWIMS knows from who to order it again, and faster
  #12  
Old 10-11-2009, 09:24
Tamis Tamis is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Beware of source discussion
  #13  
Old 28-11-2009, 07:41
twoiko twoiko is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

So 2 has some updates. :3

2 has received 2 e-cigs (Joye 510, 2 heard a lot of good things and cheap prices.) with 5 cartridges that have vanilla flavour originally. He got the package in 5 business days (within country shipping) and has been using it for a couple of days so far. He is very impressed with these little devices.

So 2 did more research and found all the ingredients in any liquid are usually just PG, VG as I said before, but also usually an alcohol like ethanol and flavourings, natural or artificial. There is quite a bit of information on the e-cig forums about this so I won't go into great detail.

2 has bought 99% USP grade Glycerin at the local pharmacy and concentrated food flavourings with the same ingredients as the ones SWIyou would buy online (the ones I listed) from the local grocers (came in 4mL bottles in different flavours including almond, mint, banana, licorice, etc.) these are used as flavouring obviously and the Glycerin is the base, you could also mix in some water if the liquid is too thick for you, and alcohol could be added to give the vapour a bit of kick.

Here's where the fun starts. People add Vodka to their liquids fairy often. Green Dragon, anyone? 2 will also be getting JWH-018 soon and will try to dissolve that into the VG he has. 2 is trying a few more things, firstly he is making an isopropyl extract from stems and shake, he thinks he will put some of that in the mix first. 2 is also trying to dissolve some kief from his herb grinder into the VG or maybe a bit of alcohol?

2 is trying some of them out this weekend and will report back.

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Nice post, look forward to hearing the results
  #14  
Old 06-12-2009, 21:38
pride345 pride345 is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

SWIM is also thinking of trying this out. SWIM is going to order an e-cigarette and JWh 018 soon and go about doing this. SWIM will post his results. But it could take a while!

pride345 added 6 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

SWIM found this question on a different forum:

SWIM ordered JWH-018 and was wondering if he could mix the JWH with his liquid nicotine, then vaporize it in his electronic cigarette. Does anyone know if the JWH would have an adverse reaction to the substances in the nicotine listed below?

tobacco essencial oil
tobacco lead oil
nicotine (from tobacco leaf)
2,3,5-trimethylpyrazine
2,3,5,6-tetramethylpyrazine
2,5-dimethylpyrazine
2-acetypyrazine
2-methyl butyic acid
terp ineol
ethyl maltol
guaiacol
acettyl pyridine
octalactone (gamma)
pure water (10 percent)
propylene glycol (65 percent)
glycerol (20 percent)

Would greatly appreciate any help anyone could offer.

----------------------------------
Some of the responses were:

^that's a long list of nasties, and is even making me not want to go outside an have my morning cigarette...

I'm sure you could mix the JWH-018 in with the liquid nicotine concoction, and it should work as long as both the 'liquid nicotine' and JWH-018 will vaporize at the same temperature, as I really don't see the e-cigarettes having a temperature gauge.

Maybe this is all wishful thinking, who knows? Tell us how it turns out.

-------------------------------
and:

as Arobskittle has said JWH has not been tested very much in humans for specific interactions. you'll have to decide yourself whether they are safe to mix. It's up to you.

Chances are you'll be fine, as I'm sure people have smoked cigarettes and JWH concurrently before.

--------------------------------

Hmm, this looks very promising!!!

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Good realavat into
lots of interesting pieces here, thanks for spending the time to write this up

Last edited by pride345; 06-12-2009 at 21:38. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #15  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:24
msimm msimm is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Swim ordered the Intellicig EVOlution today. Any updates on the results? If not swim will probably try solving into propylene glycol and post the experience (JWH-018) later in the month.
  #16  
Old 08-12-2009, 15:54
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Well, no really exciting news yet but 2 did try a few things so far.

2 noticed the cartridges only hold 2-3ml of liquid, and yet they last forever, like almost 2+ hours of constant usage before it runs out... This, as SWIY would imagine, makes it difficult to add enough active ingredient.

When 2 just tried dissolving the JWH-018 into PG or VG, nothing really happened, there were just chunks of powder floating around. So 2 dissolved ~500mg JWH into ~50ml IPA, he then put ~0.5ml of this solution into his e-cig juice mix and let it evaporate all the IPA. The next day, 2 had a cloudy white solution, ~3ml of VG, flavouring and about 5mg of JWH-018. It doesn't look like 2 can't fit very much more JWH into the solution as it's not exactly dissolving into a clear liquid, it's really cloudy. 2 has tried the e-cig with a smaller concentration of JWH, with little to no noticeable effects, so hopefully this kind of concentration will allow for some effects from vaporization.

Anyhow, essentially if this doesn't work 2 and I don't think it's going to be easy to get enough of any active substance in there. I don't even know how they can get up to 30mg of Nicotine dissolved into this liquid, well maybe it dissolves more readily... 2 will report back on the results of the current concentration.

Last edited by twoiko; 08-12-2009 at 18:50.
  #17  
Old 08-12-2009, 16:09
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Quote:
Originally Posted by twoiko View Post
Well, no really exciting news yet but 2 did try a few things so far.

2 noticed the cartridges only hold 2-3ml of liquid, and yet they last forever, like almost 2+ hours of constant usage before it runs out... This, as SWIY would imagine, makes it difficult to add enough active ingredient.

When 2 just tried dissolving the JWH-018 into PG or VG, nothing really happened, there were just chunks of powder floating around. So 2 dissolved ~500mg JWH into ~50ml IPA, he then put ~0.5ml of this solution into his e-cig juice mix and let it evaporate all the IPA. The next day, 2 had a cloudy white solution, ~3ml of VG, flavouring and about 5mg of JHW-018. It doesn't look like 2 can't fit very much more JWH into the solution as it's not exactly dissolving into a clear liquid, it's really cloudy. 2 has tried the e-cig with a smaller concentration of JWH, with little to no noticeable effects, so hopefully this kind of concentration will allow for some effects from vaporization.

Anyhow, essentially if this doesn't work 2 and I don't think it's going to be easy to get enough of any active substance in there. I don't even know how they can get up to 30mg of Nicotine dissolved into this liquid, well maybe it dissolves more readily... 2 will report back on the results of the current concentration.
Consider heating/boiling the solution to add more of X compound into the solution.

Keep in mind heating glycerin/propylene glycol could be extremely dangerous and cause an explosion, I wouldn't know, but make damn sure SWIY finds that out before SWIY does it.

What I do know is that heating most solutions will almost definitely increase the amount of X compound it can readily dissolve, like with IPA.
  #18  
Old 08-12-2009, 18:48
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacumen View Post
Consider heating/boiling the solution to add more of X compound into the solution.

...What I do know is that heating most solutions will almost definitely increase the amount of X compound it can readily dissolve, like with IPA.
Yeah, well 2 did that so that he could saturate the IPA with 10mg/ml JWH, otherwise he only got about 2mg/ml. The problem, he says, is that the VG/PG solution is SATURATED with JWH when he only adds ~5mg to the ~2-3mg that the cartridge holds. Like I said, it becomes extremely cloudy, I doubt heating it up will be a good solution since 2 cannot carry his e-cig around all the time at an elevated temperature to make sure the JWH stays dissolved...
  #19  
Old 08-12-2009, 19:16
gmeziscool2354 gmeziscool2354 is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

does the compound need to be disolved to vaporize? i believe that the solid could easily be vaporized if the device reaches high enough temperatures. What is the purity of the JWH? are there any fillers? is it free base?
  #20  
Old 08-12-2009, 19:24
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeziscool2354 View Post
does the compound need to be disolved to vaporize? i believe that the solid could easily be vaporized if the device reaches high enough temperatures. What is the purity of the JWH? are there any fillers? is it free base?
I wouldn't think it is necessary but I would imagine it would be hard to dose properly if it's not evenly distributed within the solution, essentially SWIY could get all 10mg vapourized at once if it settles to the end with the atomizer, so it would be fairly important to keep it as fully dissolved as possible.

As far as I know from what 2 said it's just the salt and it's 99% pure, it was a slightly chunky off-white/yellow substance, same as JWH usually is, same as last time, 2 says. The only difference was it clumped a bit in the packaging this time because it was colder outside this time of year.
  #21  
Old 08-12-2009, 20:25
The.KK The.KK is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

SWIM has tried it but didn't have enough JWH to mess around with. He tried dumping some directly at the atomizer... some did vape but some got stuck on the sidewalls so it wasn't very efficient. He hasn't tried dissolving it with his e-cig liquid because as mentioned before he didn't have enough JWH to play around with.

SWIM has acquired a bottle of propylene glycol, once he will have more JWH he will try dissolving it (although, if it makes a cloudy substance then it means it doesn't dissolve and it is not homogeneous. Also, SWIM has found a way to extract THC into the PG (hence why he has a bottle of PG now) and it works well.
  #22  
Old 08-12-2009, 22:18
gmeziscool2354 gmeziscool2354 is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

what salt of JWH is it? this will make choosing a solvent/ means of fullly disolving it much easier to determine
  #23  
Old 08-12-2009, 23:52
msimm msimm is offline
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

I've been reading a bit on the e-cigarette forums and saw a recipe that used a 50/50 mix of glycerine and ethanol (in the form of everclear and wilton brand vegetable glycerine).

If e-juice/e-liquid (terrible names!) is just a liquid why not just use ethanol?
  #24  
Old 11-12-2009, 23:42
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeziscool2354 View Post
what salt of JWH is it? this will make choosing a solvent/ means of fullly disolving it much easier to determine
Unfortunately, 2 tells me there is no information about this from his source, he will contact them and ask.
  #25  
Old 27-12-2009, 18:37
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Re: Vaping with e-cigarette

Doing a little reading it appears the average e-cig operates at between 50-60° Celsius (~120-140° Fahrenheit). Marijuana is commonly vaporized between 160-200° Celsius (~320-392° Fahrenheit).

Rendezvous posts a vendor response (link) saying that (their) JWH-018 melts at 64-67° Celsius (~147-152° Fahrenheit), and JWH-073 at 94-97° Celsius (201-207° Fahrenheit).

By placing a small amount of powder (5-15mg) directly onto the top of the e-cig cartridge (which pushes it directly into the atomizer) so far, in swims experience, JWH-081 (not a typo) seems to be moderately vaporized (mild, but moderately above placebo), JWH-073 does not seem to be vaporized (noticed no effects) and JWH-250 seems to also be at least partially vaporized.

I was only able to find one source online listing a boiling point and melting point for JWH-018 but this source was (site is down, but I used google cache) a somewhat dubious looking vendor and puts the melting point considerably higher (at 208° Celsius):

Quote:
* CAS Number : 209414-07-3
* PubChem : 10471670
* Empirical Formula : C24H23NO
* Formulation : crystalline solid/poweder
* Purity : min 97% / avg 98%
* Mol. mass : 341.44 g/mol
* Nominal Mass : 341 Da
* Average Mass : 341.44 Da
* Boiling Pt (deg C) : 495.43 (Adapted Stein & Brown method)
* Melting Pt (deg C) : 208.22 (Mean or Weighted MP)
* Molar Volume : 311.9 cm3
* Polarizability : 42.64 10-24cm3
* Surface Tension : 41.9 dyne/cm
* Density : 1.09 g/cm3
* Flash Point : 276.9 °C
 CelsiusFahrenheit
Nicotine (melt*)-79°-110°
Nicotine (boil*)247°477°
Propylene glycol (melt*)-59°-139°
Propylene glycol (boil*)188°370°
Tetrahydrocannabinol (boil*)200°392°
Marijuana (vaporized)160-200°320-392°
E-cig (FDA evaluation)40-65°144-149°
JWH-018 (melt?**)64-67°147-152°
JWH-073 (melt?**)94-97°201-207°
HU-210 (melt*)140-142°284-288°

It would seem the e-cigarette operates at a temperature well below the boiling point of either Propylene glycol or Nicotine. So yes, I am probably more confused now then I was before I started doing this research.

Anyone want to take a stab at this?

* taken from msds

Post Quality Evaluations:
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Last edited by msimm; 27-12-2009 at 20:15.

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