Opinions - swim needs advice for an old friend

[littlemissnice]

Swim has just met her ex again after 10 years of not seeing him,and he has told swim he has been using for the past 5 years Swim is soooo shocked by this as he has always been so squeaky clean,but my problem is he has asked to keep in touch as he wants to get clean and needs some support but although swim has her own life she felt all the old feelings returning and just wanted to hug him as she never really stopped loving him.
Swim is afraid of getting close though as she dosnt know much about his world if you see what i mean. although she has a little codeine habit.
Does swim forget she ever saw him or help him?

littlemissnice added 18 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

oooops!! swim dosnt know how to edit posts but just wanted to apologise for not being consistent with swim!

[missparkles]

Meeting someone you never stopped caring for, especially when they ask for help, is a painful and difficult situation to be in, isn't it? And yes, it's normal to want to help someone when they ask, even a total stranger, but she also has to think about the risk to herself. If this bloke is actively seeking help for his addiction she may be able to support him, if not, she may have to walk away again. Ask him what he intends to do to get clean, what support he'd like her to give him, and make it clear she's prepared to help, but not if it means putting herself at risk.

Sparkles gets the feeling the OP would like to get back with this man, and there's nothing wrong with that. But don't allow your emotions to over rule your head, after all, he's looking for help to get out of the deep hole his addiction has placed him in. There's nothing wrong with offering a supportive hand to enable him to climb out, just make sure when he takes it, he doesn't pull her down to join him. The little codeine thing she has going on, could quickly evolve into a little heroin thing.
Sparkles.

Although she just said "using" Sparkles is assuming the OP was talking about heroin, apologies if she misunderstood.

Reputation Comments on this post:

sparkles , your so good at diagnosing the situation, and always have the right questions to ask.

[littlemissnice]

Hi misssparkles
thanks for your helpful reply it makes a lot of sense.
Swim was talking about heroin and yes swim could easily fall for this man again,which is why she is so wary of helping as her feelings could cloud sense.
Swim is thinking of calling him and asking if he is serious about getting clean as sparkles suggests.
He did tell swim he is "between homes" at the moment so swim is going to be cautious of that as she is afraid he might be looking for somewhere to stay and dosnt know if she will be able to resist.
swim thinks sparkles is right,,and swim would jump at getting back with him,but swim dosnt know if she could handle a relationship if he isnt serious about quitting

littlemissnice added 242 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

Swim just called him and is meeting him tomorrow in town,he said he will tell me more then.
I hope swim is doing the right thing please tell her she is

littlemissnice added 2 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

swim just called him and is meeting him tomorrow,he said he will tell her more then.
i hope swim is doing the right thing,please tell her she is

littlemissnice added 932 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...

swim is off to meet him in half hour wish her luck,will update later

[ex-junkie]

no offence littlemissnice, but this sounds like a recipe for disaster. remember he cant rely on swiy to get clean/stay clean, its entirely up to him. careful of those who tug the heart strings, sometimes they do this purposely for their own benefit.

i suppose its a little harsh of an attitude to have, but its this attitude that has kept me safe from making mistakes that are harmful to myself or my son...

the things from swiys posts that stood out and rang alarm bells are in bold...

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

Swim is afraid of getting close though as she dosnt know much about his world if you see what i mean. although she has a little codeine habit.

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

...wary of helping as her feelings could cloud sense.

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

he is "between homes" at the moment so swim is going to be cautious of that as she is afraid he might be looking for somewhere to stay and dosnt know if she will be able to resist.

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

swim dosnt know if she could handle a relationship if he isnt serious about quitting.

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

Swim just called him and is meeting him tomorrow in town,he said he will tell me more then.

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

i hope swim is doing the right thing,please tell her she is

i guess its too late now, youve already gone to meet him. i dont think youre doing the right thing based on your weariness and fears, and you should ALWAYS listen to your gut intuition. its there for a reason.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Common sense advice, trusting gut instinct can be a life saver.

[mickey_bee]

This echoes another recent thread. And so will my response....

You obviously care about this man, and while he is in a less-than-ideal situation, that doesn't mean you should run away, afraid of being hurt.

You clearly don't know the full situation with this man yet, and as such, I think it would be foolish to stop yourself from helping him when you want to........until you know the full story.

I'm not going to pretend there's not a risk involved, there really is. But you're a grown-up now, and I would expect you could be trusted to keep control of your feelings until you know exactly where this man is in his addiction.

Having the support of someone who cares for you is one of the greatest aids in ending an addiction; if he's at the point of seriously deep-down wanting to quit, you could be a literally life-saving help.

That said, even if he really is ready to quit, it's never easy;for either the addict, or those who care for him/her. But if you do care about the person, it's all worth it.

Just be very firm. If it looks like he's not truly ready to quit, and not truly committing to his treatment, then you do have to just walk away, because it could be decades before he is ready.

It's a very tough position. All I would say is try and judge whether or not he's truly genuine about giving up before you commit to helping him. And if you do commit to helping him, remember it could be difficult, will take a while, and you might still need to walk away further down the line.

Make rules of what you will and will not accept, and stick to them.

Good luck to you and him.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Well balanced, well written post. Gives both sides of the argument.

[littlemissnice]

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your supportive replies,Swi mickeybee and swi exjunkie, swim has found a lot of answers in both and is very grateful for your time in replying to swim.
Swim did meet with him yesterday,and he told swim he got into drugs as he never really felt happy after we split up and sort of just drifted into the wrong crowd and down the wrong path..
Swim asked if he was serious about quitting,he has told her he is,as he did quit last year for 6 months using methadone,but relapsed and has been using both since then.He said meeting me has given him new determination and he hopes swim can find it in her heart to support him.
Swim has made it clear that she cannot have him staying with her or enter into a relationship tho until swim sees real evvidence of him working hard to prove himself.
He has promised to go and see his GP again soon,and swim has offered to go with him for support,he said he would welcome this.
Swim did give him a little money and bought him a meal,she didnt give him a lot just £10,but has now decided that this is the wrong kind of support what do other swims think?
He is going to keep in touch,swim has decided to see if he goes to the appointment before she makes any more decisions,as she cant just turn her back on someone she cares about without giving him a fair chance.
Please keep advice coming as swim really appreciates it

littlemissnice added 58 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...

sorry for posting again,
swim forgot to mention her personal cicumstances and thought it might be helpful for swiys to know when deciding on advice,swimisnt sure if it wllmake a difference but thought it might be useful.
swim is currently single after recently seperating from her husband she has no kids although was a stepmother to his 2 sons,swim will not be seeing any of them again,as the marriage ended badly.
This is also a reason for her not to rush into anyhting new.

[missparkles]

Good to make it clear, in a supportive way, that she has to see some effort from him. Laying down some boundaries is also good, these will be essential if he gets help and she decides to support him. Knowing where you stand, what's ok and what isn't is so important, in any relationship. Giving him money is not a good move in Sparkles opinion, this is just funding his habit, perhaps only in a small way, but it sets a precedent. But apart from the money it seems like she's dealt with this the best way.
Just wanted to mention, perhaps as an afterthought, his mentioning his habit began when they split cos he missed her. No, his habit began when he decided to use heroin instead of getting other healthy support for his sadness, she is in no way responsible for his using heroin. This can make you feel some responsibility, and give him an emotional hold over you, don't let that happen.
Take care.
Sparkles.

[Anna Thema]

Please, please, please dont give this man anymore money, Littlemissnice will never know if its her he likes or the 10 pounds notes/the roof over his head/whatever else she offers him. (but SWIM thinks she knows the money thing was a bad idea)
Theres a leprechaun who lives in the corner of the room and he says that all the humans seem to need some care and support at some time in their lives, but Littlemissnice has to be very careful that she gives that care and support to herself first, before she gives it to others.
She has come out of one bad relationship and it sounds to the leprechaun that she wants to get into another one. The human heart is a powerful thing and SWIM hasnt fully learnt to control hers yet so wouldnt expect anyone else to be able to. So please Littlemissnice remember to keep yourself safe.

If SWIY wants to support this friend then that will ultimately be her choice. If thats what she choose then she must lay down some VERY strict rules, if he is serious about wanting to rehab then she can be there for him as a friend, but this man is not in a position to start a healthy relationship with anyone until he can have a healthy relationship with himself. Trust that honey, SWIM's been there, shes tried to fix the man in her life and it can be like beating your head against a brick wall, it really can, with alot of blood and tears and pain.

If at any time SWIY thinks that this man is abusing her help, her time, her care then she has to take a look at herself and ask if she thinks she deserves to be treated like that. SWIM doesnt even know littlemissnice but SWIM knows, nobody deserves to be taken advantage of.

If SWIY keeps in touch with him then SWIY has a chance to show this man what Self Respect looks like, and then its up to him, not SWIY, whether he chooses Self Respect for his own life or not. So remember, that little Codeine thing mentioned can really easily turn into trouble. At the wrong time, in the wrong place, in the wrong emotional state and with access to the right drug it could be a big problem for SWIY.

SWIM's real advice is dont touch this man with a bargepole, just tell him that when he's clean and in a better place in his life, if he wants to get in touch she'd love to hear from him. Oh my God, that makes SWIM sound horrible and cruel hearted, SWIM can hear it now, all the people saying 'everyone deserves help' and yes they do if they can prove that they are doing their best to help themselves.

Best of luck honey xxx Look after yourself and trust your own instincts, even if they say something SWIY dont want to hear.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	We all need to keep ourselves safe first, this is a good point, self respect is so important.
	Excellent point about the money, it is not good precident (spoken like a nob, but i mean it)

[Anna Thema]

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

Hi everyone,

Swim did meet with him yesterday,and he told swim he got into drugs as he never really felt happy after we split up and sort of just drifted into the wrong crowd and down the wrong path..

Littlemissnice (LMN) has bumped into him on the street, than met him in town once and already this guy is guilt tripping her, sayin the reason for his heroin addiction is because of their break-up. Like its all her fault.
Thats outrageous manipulation, emotional blackmail of the highest order and typical addict behaviour. Active addicts cant help it, its like the heroin in their system hardwires them to lie and cheat and steal and use the people around them.

Spot on Sparkles, SWIAnna meant to point that out in her 1st reply but her brain works quicker than her fingers. The manipulation is a very important point and should not be ignored.

LMN is not responsible for this man, for his past, his present or his future. Her first responsibility is to herself. So again SWIAnna says dont touch him with a bargepole. He's already taken money off SWIY, lied to SWIY by blaming SWIY for his habit and is probably working up to trying to get a free place to stay.

LMN, this man will bring a world of pain into LMN's life if she lets him. There are 6 billion people in the world and SWIAnna thinks LMN would be better off focussing on something else right now. SWIY wouldnt be turning their back on an old friend, SWIY would be protecting an old friend from causing harm and hurting SWIY

LMN said it herself with "I hope swim is doing the right thing please tell her she is " SWIAnna cant tell you that honey because she doesnt think its true.

Said with love and care.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good, solid advice, maybe not what OP wants to hear, but needs to

[ex-junkie]

thank christ you said it anna thema! i was starting to think i was just too untrusting, and had basically typed out a long post but never posted it.

even i get a bad feeling in my stomach when i read this thread!

the way i see it, is that if she mattered so much to him, he wouldnt have waited ten years to come out with it! at the very least he would have made contact when he did his 6 months clean, because if she mattered that much he wouldnt have been able to get her out of his head, and most defo would have felt worthy of her then...

[kailey_elise]

This has bad news written all over it. For your own sake, do NOT respark *ANY* kind of relationship with this man.

Let's see, you're emotionally vulnerable, just getting out of a bad relationship & already turn to drugs (opiates, even) to help cope. Run into an old partner who has serious addiction problems that take YEARS of actually being clean to overcome & are already letting him emotionally manipulate you.

As someone who's been on both sides of the coin, here, I'll tell ya right now - unless you want a heroin habit too (and you might very well deep inside - I know people who sought it out), RUN LIKE A MANIAC AWAY FROM THIS SITUATION!!!!

It's not that he's not deserving of help, or a second chance, or what have you - not at all. But if he's that down & out, he will barely be able to help taking advantage of you whenever possible. He won't necessarily want to, but won't really be able to help it - the drive to be not-dope-sick and/or high on heroin is THAT FUCKING STRONG.

It's not your fault he became a junkie, and unless you want to be one too, I suggest you NOT become deeply involved with the person while they are actively using drugs (and maybe not for at least a year after, who knows?).

~Kailey

[mickey_bee]

While swim has seen situations similar to this turn out very badly for both parties, he still strongly believes that running away from the situation at such an early stage, despite wanting to help, is just not a mature thing to do.

Self-preservation is, at the end of the day, paramount. But part of being a good person, who has the ability to feel, is to try and help those they care for, if they can.

The issue here is simply, can you realistically help this man? No one on this board knows the answer to this, no one knows this but you, and until you try, you won't know either.

Swim understands alot of the above posts, but also would like to point out, that some of them are from personal experience of the situation turning out negatively, and, as such, are inevitably going to be tainted with that fact.

In all honesty, when it comes to heroin, there are generally many many unsuccessful, and often damaging attempts to get clean before success. So it could definetly be said that the odds are stacked against you....

Be aware of this fact at all times, and remember that there is only so much you can do- if he continues to use, and doesn't really commit to getting clean, then there's nothing you can do to help.
If you stay at that point, it will do nothing but damage you.

Swim would advise that while you do offer to help him, you do so at arms length initially. Be prepared for the worst, and only when he proves himself worthy of you should you start to give him more credit and support. Just don't rush into anything, especially not given your own, presumably delicate, current emotional state.

And what ever you do, don't 'help' him with money, that is not help, it's simply putting temptation into his hand.

Just ensure that you take things slow, be aware of the very real dangers of your situation, and demand he proves himself before you begin to give him more support.

Good luck again. Take it slow.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Gives both sides, advises caution but points out that support for this man is possible

[g666d]

thought i'd add my 2 cents,
i agree with all the posts above, i read this post a few days ago and refrained from replying because i don't have the experience or first person knowledge to make such a judgement call over the internet. But this was my first feeling too, be very very careful and if you go ahead be prepared for some quite stressful and taxing episodes, with the very real possibility of nothing to show for it at the end; except lessons learned and money owed. If you are a strong person with a sharp perception of when someone is lying/manipulating, if you can listen to peoples wants but still act to what they need, if you are fully prepared to accept that at end of the day no-one is responsible for you but you, and can turn your mind off to someone else's self-inflicted misery, then i feel it is possible to build something here. But my personal gut feeling is that without solid commitment on his part and a certain coldness on yours, you may well be setting yourself up for abuse.
But again, who knows if i'm right. I certainly doubt myself.
And of course if he is genuine and you are astute, there is potential for it to be a very good and rewarding thing for both of you.
Get him all educated about quitting so he knows exactly what he is committing to (if you decide to go ahead, which you don't have to. You owe this guy nothing, and should only be going into this if it is beneficial for both of you).
i am making some assumptions here too, about his character, based on the fact you still feel strongly for him after these years. I could have completly the wrong picture here though.
all the best

Reputation Comments on this post:

One of the most insightful, wellbalanced post I've seen. Touches on every relevant point, but is also said with kindness...

[mickey_bee]

Although obviously, no two situations are ever exactly the same, swim has been in a similar situation to your man.

Swim too began to use heroin habitually after breaking up with a girl that he still loved. After a few months of fighting feeling low sober, he realised that if he gave a dealer £5 he could feel not just ok, but content, even happy, for a day, maybe even two, (swim was at the time living with an addict, and had been using recreationally for about a year, so the drug was literally all around him). Needles to say,(pun intended), it was the worst decision swim has made in his life.

Swims ex, while having completely moved on with her life, is still in contact with swim, and knows of his situation. She offered to help, but swim knew, and still does, that there was really nothing she could do, short of getting back with swim, that would really help him kick the drugs.

Swim is still an addict, and knows fullwell that he will never get clean until he himself is completely ready to. Unfortunately swim also knows that this means he's going to have to go to some much worse and lower places before he can get sick and tired enough of the drug, and the lifestyle of shit it brings with it. It will probably be many years before swim really conquers his addiction.

As swim said, every situation is different, but he thinks his story highlights just how much the eventual success relies on the addict themselves, regardless of what help others give him.

Swim is certainly not recommending getting back with the man, as although swim himself knows that would have helped him, he doesn't know to what extent, and he also, more importantly to you, doesn't know to what extent it could have hurted the girl...

It's good to have feelings for other people, but, especially when it comes to hard drugs, you've got to look after yourself first.

[littlemissnice]

Hi,
Mickeybee,your advice is so heartfelt and honest it makes swim see both sides of her situation,as although other swimmers have said to run amile and swim understand the logic in this,no matter the right and wrongs swim cant deny that she stillloves this man,and knows being who she is that turning her back on him goes against all her beliefs as a person.
Swim is very grateful for all advice Anna,what you said does make 100% sense,but swim does feel as mickeybee said that she cant just walk away.
The ex has contacted swim and told her he has managed to find a place to stay for a while,and asked swim to goand see him there,swim went last night,and we talked again,he has said again he is going to get clean,and does seem like he is serious.
He did attempt to kiss swim,and for a breif moment she responded but then sense prevailed and she once again made it clear there can be nothing like that until she sees action being taken.
swim has come away feeling a little more shocked at his situation tho as while she was there he said he needed to go and "fix up" in the bathroom as he would be ill soon if he didnt.
I suppose swim didnt think about seeing the actual reality side of being in his company while he takes drugs util that point,he did apaologise and said it would be temporary until he sorts out a new programme for "the green"
swim isnt sur what this meant but assumes its methadone??

[missparkles]

Sparkles is gonna go out on a limb here and speculate a little, but she intends no offense.

Reading through this topic again has given her the feeling that LittleMissNice had already decided what she was gonna do, but was scared to do it. She quite rightly had concerns, and most here voiced the same concerns, but she eventually chose to focus on the advice that was the most encouraging about supporting this bloke. At the end of the day, if you love someone, no matter what they are, whatever anyone says, you will be there for them. And Sparkles can totally understand that. Just be honest with yourself about it, don't believe that turning your back on this man goes against all your beliefs as a person. If he does as he says and things work out, that will be great. But if he doesn't, and ends up putting you through emotional and psychological abuse, will your beliefs prevent you from leaving him? This is so difficult. I suppose Sparkles is just trying to cut through all the flowery BS as politely as possible.

Basically, your love for this man is what's motivating you to help him, not some notion of not turning your back on a fellow human being who is suffering. If it was a purely altruistic motive, a need to bring relief to a suffering soul, you'd get a dog from a shelter that's been abused by it's previous owners. This man already sees himself as the victim, after all if she hadn't left him in the first place, he wouldn't be where he is now...right? But remember, every victim needs a martyr, someone prepared to sacrifice themselves for some perceived future bliss. One lives in the past, the other lives in the future. The only thing they have in common...is neither of them live in today.

I admire your love for this man, but if you really want to help him keep your head clear. Any support you give should enable him to make better choices about his future, not enable him to continue using. Guidance is fine, but start doing it for him and you're actually disabling him, preventing him from learning how to do it himself. Please, don't go into this thinking you can save him, only he can do that.

I really hope this turns out well, that he gets clean and eventually you both have a happy life together. Again apologies for my bluntness, I just wanted to be completely honest, not hurt. Anytime LittleMissNice needs someone to talk to Sparkles would always be here for her. She may not agree with her decision, but she'd always support her in the one she'd chosen.

[kailey_elise]

Yes, in the UK 'the green' is methadone. in the US, the liquid is red. *shrug*

You do have to realize going into this, that heroin is his 'girlfriend' right now. She's the love of his life, the bane of his existence, his lover & mistress. He will leave if she tells him to, no matter how much he wants to be with you (witness his having to go to the loo for a hit) - that sickness & fear of being dopesick runs his life right now.

And even after a period of clean time (with or without the methadone), it will take a while for his head to get on straight - I'm talking a year or more before he's potentially 'himself' again.

You need to know these things going in, and how you will deal with them as they come up.

~Kailey

[littlemissnice]

Hello,
Swim would like to say that after reading Misssparkles last reply,that swim is not offended in any way,and that misssparkles is completley right in what she says.
Everything she says is really what swim has been thinking,and swim knows that her feelings for this man are goin to win out above all else.
Swim has read and re-read all advice and all swimmers have made sense to swim,she is grateful for all advice.
Like sparkles says,swim is going to just have to be meticulously careful as she goeson this journey with him,as ultimately she had already made her mind up,but needed to hear someopinions first.
Swim would be grateful if she was welcome on DF while helping him,as she knows she is going to need a LOT of advice and help along the way.
Swim just hopes that he is truly serious about getting clean,wish her luck and please keep all advice and support coming,swim is grateful for each and every bit given.

[missparkles]

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

Swim would be grateful if she was welcome on DF while helping him,as she knows she is going to need a LOT of advice and help along the way.
Swim just hopes that he is truly serious about getting clean,wish her luck and please keep all advice and support coming,swim is grateful for each and every bit given.

LittleMissNice is more than welcome. Hell, we all make choices, some right some not so right, but at the end of the day, it's your decision. Who knows how all this will end, perhaps your faith in this man will turn out to be justified? But always remember, you're only as alone with any problem as you want to be.
Sparkles has found DF to be forum of people who not only care, but who actually understand, and have excellent advice to offer. They may not always say what you wanna hear, but what they do say will be said with sincerity and a desire to help. Sparkles is glad you weren't upset by her bluntness, she just cares is all.

Sparkles.

[g666d]

Originally Posted by littlemissnice

...Swim would be grateful if she was welcome on DF while helping him,as she knows she is going to need a LOT of advice and help along the way.

as sparkles said, more than welcome. if swiyou can keep a sort of blog or just keep continuing to post as swiyou have been it would most likely be of great benefit to any future swimmers in swiy's position, and help them decide what sort of decisions to make/show them what they should expect (ie educational, and info that is not the easiest to come by).
swim recently watched 'don't get high on your own supply' or 'diary of a drug addict' (confusingly, 2 titles) a documentary about lanre fehintolla, a journalist who got addicted to h for a story he was doing. It paints a pretty graphic picture about the subtleties and insidiousness of h addiction, and may help you understand what your man is going through. It has a depressing ending, but this is not the case with all people trying to quit!
Swim wishes both of swiyou all the best (and is secretly a little proud of swiyour decision, for strange enough reasons.) As the basic message has been from all the other swimmers, keep your eyes open, and your mind clear, and keep your own well-being first and foremost.

[helene]

There's a recent thread in this forum, Heroin and Relationships, in which can be found a fair few very helpful posts on the subject of going out with a heroin addict.

I'm going to include below a (slightly edited) extract from swim's reply to the above thread (the original of which can be found here), as I really think it's also relevant to this situation, and hopefully it might be able to help the OP out.

Swim herself is a female heroin addict, who has been using heroin since she was 16. Since then she has had a few different relationships, some with non-users. In all honesty, since swim has had a habit, none of the relationships she has had with guys who didn't use had any chance of success from the start. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, not by a long way, but from swim's experience of it, there was just too huge a difference in her life, compared to that of her non-using partner. Their existences just had too little in common, and swim's priorities differed so much from theirs, they couldn't ever begin to understand, let alone accept the driving force that is heroin addiction. Not through selfishness, swim doesn't think, they were definitely trying to do the right thing, and understand what the situation was for swim. But when it comes down to it, it's very hard (nigh on impossible) for someone to accept that given the choice, their lover would, if ill through heroin withdrawal, chose smack over them 100% of the time. Is this something you think you will be able to deal with? Swim isn't saying that a heroin addict can't love someone, and care about them as strongly as a non-user. Just that when it comes down to it, their loyalty, love and dedication is always gonna be split between you and heroin. Is this something you feel you could consolidate, in your mind? I know you say you have a small codeine habit yourself. Is this a prescribed medication? Having this understanding of opiate addiction may put you in a better position to understand their situation. However, in swim's opinion, it also puts you in a much more risky position with regards to your own susceptibility to heroin addiction, and therefore it is even more important that you make sure you do not put your own health and happiness in danger, for the sake of helping this guy.

Swim knows quite a few people, who as non-users started seeing an addict. They wanted to help their new partner get clean, and, perhaps naively, thought that they would be able to support them through doing their cluck. They were absolutely shocked when the horrific realities of it hit home, of just how fucking hard it is to get off heroin, just how ill withdrawal makes you. It's painful to watch someone you love suffering, without being able to help them, or ease their pain. And a lot of the time, because it is just so hard to watch, the non-user ends up facilitating their addict partner in scoring, in an attempt to end that pain. After coming to terms with this, a lot of these well-meaning, non-users, in a further attempt to understand their partners' addiction, end up trying heroin themselves. Of course, they only intend to "try" it. But then something shifts, maybe in over-simplified terms it's the whole "if you can't beat them, join them" scenario, and they start using with their partner. The addict partner will enjoy this, as the new-user will be getting all those first-time heroin use benefits, they'll be enjoying heroin in the fun, happy-go-lucky way that opiate-naive people do when they first start using it. This will enable the much more jaded, addict half of the couple to trick themselves into thinking that they are still enjoying it in that same way. I guess they vicariously feed off the new-users' enjoyment, which helps to delay that inevitable moment of realisation, when it finally sinks in how much trouble they are actually in. Of maybe a half dozen different couple swim knows who started off in this situation, with the non-user trying to help the addict get clean, all of them failed in their attempt to get their partner clean. And nearly all of them ended up on smack themselves. As said already, your existing codeine problem puts you at a much greater risk of this happening, in swim's opinion. You need to look after yourself too, and make sure you don't lose track of your own addiction problems, or let your own habit get out of control as a result of this. You need to protect yourself, above all. Think about it this way, if you're not in a good state yourself, you're less able to help others. But if you're happy and healthy and strong yourself, you're better equipped to offer help and support to those around you.

However, it sounds like you care a lot about this person, and are willing to offer them support. You're making the best first step you can, by trying to find out as much as you can about heroin addiction. The more you know, the better you'll cope. Whilst on this point, if they are an IV user, it would be very wise for you to read up on the details of heroin overdoses, and learn what to do in such an emergency. I know this is a pretty shocking thing to have to think about, but the truth is, most IV heroin users OD at one point or another. Most of these overdoses are not fatal, but often only because of the quick-thinking actions of clued-up friends. Check out this thread here for a whole wealth of info on overdoses, what to do if someone OD's, info on CPR, recovery position etc.

Despite all the complications, swim wouldn't say for one minute that you should avoid getting involved with someone just because they use heroin. Swim wishes you the best of luck with the future, and she is of course here to answer any further questions you might have. The last thing she will say is this: make sure you don't sacrifice too much of yourself, trying to help this person out. Remember what swim said about how common it is for those trying to help to end up with habits themselves. By all means, stay with them for as long as you can. But don't suffer yourself as a result of it.

H

[Anna Thema]

Hi LittleMissNice. Thanks for the open and honest posts so far.
SWIM thinks SWIY is doing 100% the right thing by asking as many questions as possible. The more infomation that is at hand, the better people cope with any situation. There are alot of threads as already suggested that SWIY will learn alot from. SWIM hopes that SWIY gets the answers she is looking for and that SWIY will always feel happy to post a question.

Lots of luck.

[beena]

This is a tough one - you sound like you still harbour some strong feelings for him. Be very careful though - I think you need to ask yourself if you're in a position to really help him and be strong for him as well as put up with all the hurt and crap you will probably have to deal with and will undoubtedly be exposing yourself too if you agree to help him and especially if you strike up an intimate relationship with him again.

The reason I urge you to ask yourself this is because you mention your 'little codeine habit'. How 'little' is this habit exactly? Codeine is an opiate like heroin is, albeit a much weaker one. Are you sure that you won't be tempted to dabble with heroin if it becomes accessible to you through this person? If you already take codeine and like it let me assure you that you would certainly like heroin if you tried it - perhaps a little too much. If you get addicted to heroin you won't be helping anyone. Believe me it's hard enough for one person to get off drugs but two people using together and it's near enough impossible. Plus it becomes hard to walk away from the relationship because of a little thing called co-dependency. You might say that there's no way you will take heroin or get hooked - but don't kid yourself - really search your soul and ask yourself if you can truly say that with meaning, and stick to it.

SWIM worries for you because of her own story: she met her current partner when she was 20 years old and he was 32. She had just moved to London and started university in the September. Her social circle had changed and she was having the time of her life. Prior to moving to London she'd only ever smoked cannabis but since starting uni and living in halls of residence she started taking pills (ecstacy) regularly and had recently started dabbling with cocaine. She met her boyfriend in a pub in the October and they clicked instantly despite the age gap. She had a lot of fun with him and they took a lot of pills together. Her friends were impressed at how easily he was able to get hold of pills for them all and he never wanted any money for them - they nicknamed him 'the candyman'. After spending virtually every hour of every day together for a couple of weeks he said he had to go and do something and disappeared for almost two days. When he came back he seemed very down - SWIM asked him where he'd been and what was going on/what was wrong. He said that he needed to tell her something and that he understood if she didn't want to see him anymore afterwards. He told her that he'd had a problem with crack-cocaine for almost ten years but that he was desperate to stop and that was why he'd been using so many pills recently - i.e. he was substituting one (very addictive) drug for another (that wasn't addictive). SWIM said that she still wanted to be with him and that she would support him and help him give up drugs. SWIM knew nothing about crack, other than it was addictive - she didn't know how it was taken or anything else - she built up a picture of it being a nasty, evil drug that her poor boyfriend desperately wanted to stop using but couldn't.
Everything would be fine for a while but every so often her boyfriend would disappear and use crack. It would cause so much heartache for SWIM as she felt so helpless. It would cause terrible arguments too as time after time he let her down.
In the meantime SWIM started using more and more coke. Her boyfriend too was using and was basically switching from crack to coke - although every so often he would still relapse with the crack as well. He never did crack in front of her and told her he would never let her smoke crack as he couldn't bear her to be addicted too.
SWIM swore she would never use it anyway.
Despite everything that SWIM knew it still happened - one night SWIM and her boyfriend had been in the pub having a good night. They tried to get coke but couldn't get hold of any. By that stage they were both addicted to coke and didn't want pills - just powder. Then SWIM made the fatal mistake - she said "well, if you can't get coke why not get crack? I'll only do it this once". Her boyfriend said no at first but he was an addict and addicts can't resist for long. SWIM took crack that night and once she'd tried it she never wanted coke again! Crack is a much stronger form of the drug cocaine after all, albeit consumed in a different way (and this is SWIM's worry for you - heroin is like codeine, albeit much stronger and consumed in a different way). Now ten years down the line and SWIM is still with her boyfriend and still has a crack-habit: they both do.
Worse still about three years ago SWIM's boyfriend was away from home at a rehab clinic trying to get himself straight and whilst he was away SWIM tried heroin for the first time to bring herself down from crack. She'd never been exposed to it or been able to take it before because her boyfriend had always bought the crack and he was very anti heroin and heroin addicts. He'd been into rehabs before and SWIM had managed to stop using crack whilst he was gone (as her problem wasn't as bad and she hadn't been using as long), but this time was different: she wasn't able to stop and looked for the drug for herself. Without him there she thought she'd try heroin - she used to have awful comedowns from crack and knew that heroin was often taken to combat this. SWIM's boyfriend found out and actually left the rehab clinic early, as soon as he heard, to come back and put an end to SWIM taking heroin. But it was too late - SWIM was hooked anyway and although he tried to get her to stop he hated seeing her in pain and would give in to her. Plus he relapsed with crack (well, he didn't stand a chance - when he got back from rehab he walked into the flat and the first thing he saw was a crackpipe on the table that SWIM had been using), and then wasn't in a position to do anything constructive.
Despite his being so anti heroin in the last six months he has also started using with SWIM - one night they'd been using crack together and SWIM was using heroin to comedown. He had a bad comedown and asked SWIM to sort him out some heroin. SWIM couldn't really refuse and since then he has taken it to come down from crack. It's not as big of a problem for him as SWIM but it's still there.

My point is that SWIM really hated everything to do with crack cocaine and wanted to help her boyfriend but because of her own recreational use of other drugs, namely cocaine, she ultimately shot herself in the foot and got a habit herself. This has led to ten years of addiction and struggles to get off drugs. SWIM is lucky that her boyfriend is ultimately a good person: despite being a drug addict he has always looked after SWIM. He's made sure that SWIM never goes without - he has stolen food when they've blown all their money on drugs to make sure that SWIM doesn't starve and although he has a criminal record for shoplifting to get money for drugs he would never let SWIM steal or put herself in a position where she might get arrested or go to prison. These might sound like strange examples to give of a person's love or innate 'goodness' but SWIM knows of all too many girls that have been pimped out by their boyfriends to get money for drugs or who commit crimes with or for their boyfriends. SWIM has never been put in this position and she's one of a small number of people who can say they've been addicted to class A drugs for ten years without having a criminal record.

SWIY might really want to help this person and have totally good and pure intentions but it's so easy to get dragged down with them. If SWIY had never taken drugs before and wasn't interested in them SWIM would be less worried for SWIY. It's this admission that SWIY has used and enjoys opiates already. If SWIY ends up using heroin with this person it would spell disaster for both SWIY and him.
Another thing is that heroin addicts (all drug addicts actually) tell lies and let people down - it's just what the drug does to people. If you get close to him don't be surprised if he lets you down and hurts you - perhaps you should take things really slowly to start with and then you can find out how committed he really is to stopping drugs - it's one thing to talk the talk, but can he walk the walk?!
I'm sure you will have heard of the expression that addicts need to 'hit rock bottom' before they can change and get help? Well, it's true, and that's not to say that addicts shouldn't have friends or people to support them in their struggles but if you strike up a relationship with him or become an emotional crutch for him you might just be stopping him hitting rock bottom and preventing him doing what he has to do to sort himself out. It's his problem after all - he put the stuff in his body in the first place, so he has to be the one to figure out what he has to do to change his life around and get off this stuff.
Be friends with him by all means but protect yourself first and foremost - don't just throw yourself head first into a full-on romantic liason. Find out where he's at first - what he's doing to change things and how committed he really is to getting off heroin. Do exactly what they tell addicts to do in recovery, that is, take it one step at a time.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Exactly, co-dependency can be an addiction. Good point about the codeine to heroin jump not being so great.
	Brilliant honest advice, from experience.

[littlemissnice]

Hello everyone,
Sorry swim hasnt updated for a few days,she has been busy,partly with the ex.
Swim would first like to thank beena and Helene for their very personal contributions,swim read both with much interest and is humbled that,they took so much time to share their stories,swim feels that she is very welcome on DF and that she has others to turn to.
So for an update.
Swim has seen him a couple of times this week,and has been very stupid,she became intimate with him. swim could now kick herself after all the promises she made about not re-kindling anything,swim called him the next day and informed him that is was a mistake and cant happen again,but now feels as though she has just given him a green light
He also is now avoiding the issue of visiting the GP for help and says he is afraid of what is to come but he will do it,and the more swim nags him the more she is confusing him.
swim is confused too,she wont walk away from this,but knows for sure that it is NOT going to be straight forward and has to come toterms with the fact that she most prob will have to wait longer for him to get clean
Reading the recent posts on here,swim has let the mist fall from her eyes and knows she will probably get hurt,but she loves this man,and is prepared to give him time.
to answer the codeine question,swim gets solpadol from a friend and although she wouldnt say she abuses them,swim knows she enjoys them and dosnt want to stop.
thanks for listening to swim she really appreciates it.

[missparkles]

Sweet Jesus, that didn't take long, Sparkles thought it would be a little longer before SWIY realised just what she'd taken on. Now it's gone from him being addicted cos she split with him, to her being responsible for him being confused, which means he can't quit just yet? Maybe point out that now she's back in his life he no longer has a reason to use?
Sparkles.