Culture - illegal and illicit drug users pecking order....

[Curiouscat22]

During some professional training I was involved in specific to substance use an interesting discussion was had by the group. The topic was about the pecking order of drug users. Points that were made during this discussion were Heroin addicts were seen to be at the lowest of the pecking order however it was also discussed if we had a problem in the uk with methamphetamine then meth addicts could be lower than the heroin addicts in the pecking order. Alcohol addiction was quite low in the order along with crack/Cocaine addicts. It was felt that there may also be an order between users using the same substance eg, an occassional heroin smoker would look down on an heroin iv addict. The same as occassional cocaine snorters speaking badly of crack/cocaine addicts! As you may be getting the gist of how the order works the people at the top were thought to be your occassional cocaine users, recreational xtc and amphetamine users, cannabis smokers ect, ect.

I would like to hear what people think about this pecking order.
Do you agree that this happens between drug users?
Does stereotyping have an impact on this?
Is it just sheer ignorance?
I would also be interested in hearing the opinion of a heroin iv addicts friend on how they felt reading that they may be seen as the lowest in the order.
are the orders different in different countries?
Do we as human beings think that another person is weaker than us because they have an addiction?

Look forward to hearing from you.....................

Reputation Comments on this post:

	interesting thread
	good topic for discussion

[sandoz1943]

Pecking order? SWIM doesn't look down on anyone for their habits but she generally sticks to her own (psychedelics, RC's, MDXX) She finds dealing with heroin and coke addicts too much hassle. She would much rather gouge her eyes out than deal with drunks or the Oxy/Roxy crowd.

[enquirewithin]

People tend to look down on each other! Unfortunately, one the the effects of opiates is that they make people very amoral, in the sense that they don't care what others think. The price of opiates and the power of their addictive qualities tend to make addicts untrustworthy.

Stimulant users can also tend to be very difficult in their behaviour, often aggressive and paranoid.

Of course, it is hypocrisy for drug users to look down on each other!

[510toMexico]

Where My Dog Yoshi is from they always looked down on heavy crack users the reasons extremely bad hygiene ,they were shady and wold steal the gold teeth out there grandmas mouth and they often would help the police .My Dog Yoshi was a meth user and always thought Meth users were the most dangerous and he himself was sometimes irrational and totally on another wavelength and not in a positive way .people looked down on him and most IV users in general

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by 510toMexico

Where My Dog Yoshi is from they always looked down on heavy crack users the reasons extremely bad hygiene ,they were shady and wold steal the gold teeth out there grandmas mouth and they often would help the police .My Dog Yoshi was a meth user and always thought Meth users were the most dangerous and he himself was sometimes irrational and totally on another wavelength and not in a positive way .people looked down on him and most IV users in general

Exactly. It is prohibition that causes some of the problems, but not all. My horse was a fairly heavy amphetamine user many years back and was often irrational and paranoid in a way which other people didn't appreciate.

[Curiouscat22]

Thank for your thoughts peeps its really interesting to hear how different substance users feel about eachother. One thing I picked up from your comments is that it doesnt seem to be the drug that determines how we see the users but the negative behaviours which the drug causes the users to display.

[salviablue]

I think its also down to the social environment too, or even political.

In the UK, many of the council estates tend to attract crime families and those that tend to associate with them (usually referred to as "chavs", "scallies" or "council estate scum"). In these "little dictatorships", heavy alcohol, cannabis, cocaine, and ecstasy use tend to be quite high up the pecking order.
Hallucinogenics and dissociatives tend to be viewed as "crazy shit for crazy people"
Opiates, crack and meth are probably at the bottom.

Serious addicts are probably viewed in the same way as anywhere else, but, what they consider as an addiction tends to differ to that of many others, i.e. its only looked down upon when it negatively impacts on their "business conduct".

Also, during the late 80`s/early 90`s "war" between ravers/trendies and moshers/rockers the latter tended to look down on the users of ecstasy and amphetamine, though this was mainly down to musical differences (in that amphetamines where mainly used by ravers/trendies).

There are numerous examples on the views of where cultural differences are at the fore.

Then there are the views of those indoctrinated by politics, unknowingly or no, looking down on one type of substance addiction whilst over looking others,

This is actually quite an interesting but highly complex and involved subject.

[I_8_my yellow crayon]

Not much to add, but just remember, a crack or heroin smoker may be more inclined to criticize a i.v cocaine or heroin user, because it will make him feel better about himself, gives him the frame of mind to say" Well...I may smoke a gram of gear a day, but at least I dont inject". Swim is sure some of the other swimmers can say they have at one point suffered from an addiction, and used criticism of somebody elses addiction, to escape or excuse, the reality of their own. Swim has done it, when he used to smoke weed he said " well at least Im not a junky" and when swim started snorting pills he still tryed to assure himself that he was somehow better than the ones injecting. Its human instinct, sometimes we try to shed some of the light off our own problems by exploiting others. Its kinda like when your a child and you were told not to drink pop, but did it anyways, then when your parents catch you, you say,"Well my sister drank it too, plus ate cookies out of the cookie jar".

Its just plain human instinct, if one is overweight, he feels better to see somebody fatter, if one has a drug problem, he feels better when he sees somebody who has a drug problem that is worse, or that society has stereotyped "worse". Drugs are drugs, and most can be harmfull to ones life if not controlled. Swim will not argue that there are definatly addictions that have or can have more severe consequences. So society kinda "judges" addicts in the sense of what the consequences to the addiction are.

A marijuana smoker doesn't take the risk of hepitites, or other such diseases that an injecter would, so society labels them "better" than a i.v users. Its just the way it goes. In the end, all addicts or users are just as dependent on their substances as the other. Notice too how a recreational user of injecting heroin even gets labelled as a "junky" even if the poor guy/girl only uses it a few times a year.

Swim just wants to add that he sees all users as equal, and not bad people. Also swim is wondering if anything he just posted makes sense to anyone? It makes sense to swim

Reputation Comments on this post:

	excellent observation that some users see hard drug use as worse than their own, we're all in the same boat if we use dr...
	Yes, this makes a lot of sense

[I_8_my yellow crayon]

Very good to point out miss sparkles, swim meant to say they don't take the kind, or as high of a risk, but to the others ms is very correct and it does happen. Its just another factor that what some people call "lighter" or "light" drugs can have serious consequences if your that unlucky one out of however many that it happens to. Swim knows a young woman who caught Hep-C off of a stem. (crack pipe, but some use them fore hash). Well swim doesn't know her, but met her in a rehabilitation center, and she did not have one single tract mark on her body, and told swim her story, that she was smoking hash in a pipe at a "drug gathering" and caught it. She said she hadn't felt well for months so went to the doctor, and was diagnosed. She went for 5 months not even knowing she had it.

Anyways, sorry for sliding off-topic.

[Thor1394]

This kind of pecking order makes SWIM mad. Its all ignorance and hypocricy. SWIM has already ranted on another thread about SWIMs cousin being addicted to pain killers and him and his family looks down on SWIM because he is an IV heroine user. SWIM has tried to explain it's the same family of drug with same risks and same withdrawl. Their argument is always at least he doesn't use needles. SWIM is very clean and very safe with his usage. SWIM currently has nearly 200 brand new syringes in his room and always uses a brand new one and disposes of used ones in a sharps container which is disposed of for him at a walk in clinic with medical waste. Yet everyone treats SWIM like he's walking hepatitis.

SWIM also has a friend, the first friend he ever used with, that is now in the methadone program and looks down on SWIM for still using H. SWIMs friend is at max dose at clinic and still spends all her money on more methadone on the street and has also taken to trading sex with an old man for handfuls of benzos. SWIM wants to know how she can see this as so much better than using with SWIM. This is sad to SWIM because she is the first person to give SWIM his first shot of H and used to be very close for over a decade. Now she thinks she is holier than thou even though she never sold herself for H.

SWIM is very tired of almost feeling ashamed of his DOC(drug of choice). He likes it and it levels him out when things are bad and he falls into deep depression. SWIM is tired of the hypocricy on the order of addicts. Addicts are addicts, drugs are drugs. All drugs even alcohol are dangerous if misused or abused. There are just as many homeless wineos as heroine addicts so SWIM doesn't want to hear it will ruin his life. SWIM works hard and supports himself and his habit.

Even junkies SWIM boots with are always saying "SWIY may be a junkie but at least SWIY is not a crackhead". This is crap! SWIM believes no recreational user should look down on another rec. user and no addict should look down on another addict. Everyone has something to make themselves feel better, wheather it's an upper, downer, psychedelic, golf, or even religion, this is what they need to feel happy and who are we to deny someone their happiness. To each their own! As long as the person is being safe and not hurting others I support them in what they choose. Everyone needs to stop with the judging and look in the mirror. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Such awesome points made, they give me lots to think about.

[missparkles]

Never feel ashamed, or allow anyone to make you feel that way. You have courage and honesty, something most people never grasp. You also have awareness, you can see that addiction is addiction, and dependency has many faces, denial being one of them.
When you're ready to quit, and everybody reaches that point, you won't have to overcome such rigid (false) beliefs, that if pain meds are legally prescribed, you can't be an addict.
Sparkles.

[Thor1394]

Thank you miss Sparkles I really like your posts and to hear what you say.

Thor1394 added 2 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

oops... I mean SWIM likes what you say can't edit yet.

[Fontaine]

Swim likes Ms. Sparkles' posts and the interesting feedback they generate. Swim attends a recovery group and often hears members judge each other depending on the socioeconomic status the member was able to maintain versus the "horrible" drug. For instance, Swim brought a Dr. to this recovery group and others seem to perceive him as ultra elite because he could go to "crack island" twice a month but has a home, practice, BMW, etc. Swim has also brought a person wanting recovery from the same substance that lost everything and and lives under a bridge. The latter is definitely not recognized or treated with the same regard as the former.
It makes Swim sad.

[dyingtomorrow]

SWIM would actually put IV meth users lower than IV heroin users (2nd to the bottom). All the IV heroin users SWIM knows, even old ones who have been using 20-30 years, are still healthy and looking alright. The IV meth users SWIM has seen go to absolute shit within a relatively short amount of time. Other than that their horrible desperate lifestyle once they run out of money is very similar.

[sirmoonie]

Whatever drug SWIM is on at any given moment is clearly the top of the pecking order.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Enlightened answer.

[Enlightenme]

SWIM'S pecking order would not have anything to do with judging others, but have everything to do with which substances SWIM would be most afraid to be addicted to. The lowest would have to be crack. SWIM would be afraid of having to do so much and spend so much money, and the mental state it draws SWIM into. Methamphetamines are next up for some of the same reasons, although there are some differences in price and mental state. Here's SWIM'S list from highest to lowest.

1. Coca
2. Kratom
3. Weed
4. GHB
5. Opiates
6. Benzos
7. Alcohol
8. Coke
9. Psychedelics - SWIM has no idea how anyone could be addicted to those.
10. Adderall and mild stimulants
11. DXM and disassociatives
12. Meth
13. Crack

SWIM can't think of any other's he has used or uses, although there's probably more.

Reputation Comments on this post:

a great idea to truthfuly add your ratings