Tapering - Is Bio-Reduction Therapy a scam?

[adzket]

Moderator's Prefix: . Please see post 28 before considering using this method - Dickon

swim is wondering if any-swiy's have heard of this treatment + it's success or not as the case may be.
it is a treatment based on tapering down your drug use day by day whilest having waves opersit to your drug of choises waves pased threw acupuncture points. swim undestands how this works with sound as in if you make a sound the exsact opersite of one you are hearing u will hear nothing as they cancel each other out. it is the same with everything on the planet having its own frequency. but it sounds to simple for removing drugs.
this site exsplanes it beter www.newwaysclinic.com
if any swiy's have any ideas please gime a shout.

Reputation Comments on this post:

for starting a thread that took an interesting direction

[Dickon]

This looks like the biggest crock of shit I've seen in a long time. The web site is utter nonsense, attacking the medical profession instead of explaining why this new method works. Everything about this screams bullshit to me. But, that said, I've been known to be wrong, and in the unlikely event that someone on here has tried this, it would be interesting to hear his experience.

I reckon this is quackery of the first water.

Dickon

[Guigz]

Can you explain to me what is it...a bio-capsule?

At this price, the traitment must be useful...amazing...

1Day Detox £695.00 2 Day Detox £1,395.00 3 Day Detox £1,995.00 5 Day Detox £2,995.00

And I've never heard something like that...this is true?

Technologies
It is well known by those health professionals involved in bio-medical and life sciences that low frequency electro-stimulation can be used to gently and rapidly block opiate abstinent syndrome. Bio-Reduction Therapy uses these principles to cancel out the effects of alcohol or drug use.There is no need to introduce any other medication during the detox process which could cause further harm to the client.
Two wrist bands cover the main acupuncture points on the wrists to successfully cancel out the effects of drugs or alcohol throughout the entire body and stimulate the production of endorphins so withdrawal symptoms are greatly reduced.
For example, cocaine responds to a high specific pulse frequency of 78Hz and heroin 90Hz. By reversing these frequencies it is possible to cancel their effects so the body craves less substance without severe withdrawal. Each treatment session is painless and reduces dependency until clean, without any cravings you can stop the cycle of habit and addiction.
The treatment is safe, painless and very successful.

Hum, very septical about this.
If some swimmers can add some testimonials maybe I can change my mind, but it's not sure.

5 days to 8 days for "hard drugs"...yeah and my mother is the Queen of U.K.

[Dickon]

If guigz is correct in his quote above, I'd love to know what reversing a frequency even means. I presume they don't mean using the heroin frequency to cure cocaine addiction and vice versa, but rather I am assuming they mean some kind of "anti-noise", in which the same frequency is used (I have to say, I have no idea what is meant here, so don't take any logical corollaries I may be drawing as any indication that that which I draw them from makes sense) but out of phase with the original one.

"Cocaine responds to a high specific pulse frequency of 78Hz". How does it respond. Does it get up and do a jig? Does it turn into an elephant, or vibrate?

I think they are also completely wrong about the placebo effect and opiate detoxification. Witness for example the success of blind methadone tapers, in which people can be off methadone for weeks without even knowing it. Also witness William Burroughs experience with apomorphine. As far as I can make out this treatment is entirely spurious, but worked for William S since he believed in it.

"Approximately 97% achieving their goals" makes no sense if the goal is to achieve permanent abstinence.

I am not saying the treatment doesn't work, but the way it is presented makes it sound like utter nonsense. Now, someone selling antibiotics could spout crap about how the hydrogen atoms in penicillin turn into lobsters and gobble up the germ-plasm's flatulence that is the as yet undiscovered cause of some infection or another. Were I to hear that, I'd be sceptical about antibiotics as it is (to the best of current scientific knowledge), to use the technical term, guff. The incorrect explanation would not mean that antibiotics don't work, simply that the explanation is wrong.

The site goes on about how an evidence based approach is not needed. This is very contentious, and in terms of a new procedure almost certainly not the way forwards.

Frankly the So-and-So (R) treatment method immediately makes me sceptical. You do not undergo surgery (R) or receive medicine (R).

Evidence please

Dr D.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	raised good ?'s
	Appeals to evidence and common sense!
	reasonable and to the point. appropriately skeptical.

[Potter]

How was Bio-Reduction® therapy developed?
The basis of Bio-Reduction® therapy is not new and was developed in Germany in 1977. By using the correct frequencies in the right order it is possible to remove a substance (alcohol or drugs) completely and so stop the body's dependency for it. Over the last 5 years we have helped more than 4,000 clients to either, stop smoking, stop drinking or stop using drugs, so the treatment is well established, proven and tested.

Can anyone link us to these studies done in Germany from '77? Right? Peer reveiwed studies?

How does it work so quickly?
Bio-Reduction® is 'proven in practice' and uses physics instead of chemistry (pharmaceutical drugs) to bring about change and works quickly to neutralise or erase the alcohol/drugs in the body, so the body does not know it has had that substance and hence does not crave/want it any more. Bio-Reduction® helps stop the cravings or desire for a substance(s) so the individual feels indifferent towards it and so can stop using it. The key to stopping addiction is to stop the physical need or desire for alcohol or drugs.

If the drugs being in the body were the problem, addiction would only last three days, after which point, the drug is entirely eliminated from the body. If anyone can explain to me how drugs last in the body past three days, I'll be shocked.

It has also been discovered that the general human healthy frequency is within the range of 62 -72 Hz and when it drops to lower levels it enables the appearance of variety of diseases. For example at the level of 58 Hz, diseases like cold and flu were more likely to appear. On much lower levels (42 Hz) Cancer appeared in many humans.

Where was "discovered"? What peer reviewed journal published it? \

Dr Royal Raymond Rife developed a high-powered microscope that could magnify an object almost 1,500 times. He was the first to see viruses, bacteria, parasites, toxins, etc in the blood. From this work he developed a frequency generator which could generate various electrical frequencies to be passed through an affected or diseased part of the body. It is well known that electrical currents passed through a wound or broken bone will greatly accelerate the healing process. Furthering his work, he validated certain frequencies could prevent the development of disease, and others would destroy disease

Royal Rife... Not a doctor, though he claimed the title, he had no professional education. He created 5 microscopes that gave him super powers that were not surprisingly unable to be replicated by other scientists.

From Wiki

n 2009 a US Federal jury convicted James Folsom of 26 felony counts for sale of the Rife devices sold as “NatureTronics,” “AstroPulse,” “BioSolutions,” “Energy Wellness,” and “Global Wellness.” He used the false name “Jim Anderson” to avoid detection by the FDA and gave buyers the false impression that the FDA had approved them for investigation. He is in custody and will be sentenced in May 2009.

In 2002 John Bryon Krueger, who operated the "Royal Rife Research Society," was sentenced to 12 years in prison for his role in a murder and also received a concurrent 30-month sentence for illegally selling Rife devices.

In Australia, the use of Rife machines has been blamed for the deaths of cancer patients who could have been cured with conventional therapy. Although "Rife devices" are not registered by the U.S Food and Drug Administration and have been linked to deaths among cancer sufferers, the Seattle Times reported that over 300 people attended the 2006 Rife International Health Conference in Seattle, where dozens of unregistered devices were sold.

Ahhh.... You're in such good company! How long do you think you'll go before being convicted of fraud and murder?

Bruce Tainio of Tainio Technology in Cheney, Washington , developed equipment to measure the biofrequency of humans and foods. He used this biofrequency monitor to determine the relationship between frequency and disease.

Funny how this man doesn't seem to have published a single paper on his amazing discoveries, and his company doesn't seem to produce anything along these lines. In fact the only resources I can find on his old "frequency" stuff, is sites selling essential oils. I wonder why?

Medication (chemistry) targets cells to evoke change in the patients' condition however it is no secret that over 90% of all drugs only work for 30% to 50% of the patients who take them due to their genes which interfere in some way with the medicine.

Link to the quote they are discussing So where did they get this "quote"? A proper scientist would have included a citation to a transcript of this person's speech. Until one is provided, I can only assume new ways made this up, much like the rest of your site's content.

Testimonials, the old stand by of the quack doctor. Funny how real doctors don't need testimonials, but when you look through old quack publications, you can find hundreds, if not thousands of them.

Love sets Fire.
Potter.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	excellent deconstruction. swim is well glad you are an active part of df :)
	Fantastic counter-arguments, great research and thorough response..thumbs up!
	Good job debunking suspcious claims by spurious treatment program.

[Dickon]

It is interesting how the article in a well-known web-based encyclopaedia site about Dr Royal Raymond Rife, who's research this bio-reduction therapy is based on, is tied up with health fraud, debunking, and pseudomedicine.

I wonder why that is? Perhaps we are in the thrall of a huge conspiracy by the AMA to discredit this genius who has discovered that all cancer is viral in origin and is treatable by his methods. It's a shame that many people seem to have died in seeking a cure. Frankly, I'm more inclined to believe the man a charlatan, and this method for treating addiction a despicable hoax played on the desperate.

Dickon

[Alfa]

This thread has been cleaned up. It attracted a troll with several accounts, defending the interests of New Ways by the us of flaming and threatening members, instead of respectful arguments.

This thread only came to my attention, because I received a legal threat by email, from info@newwaysclinic.com telling me to remove this thread, because

Originally Posted by Tony

The term Bio-Reduction therapy is trademarked and protected and we do not to take
part in endless, pointless comments about this treatment process.
Please remove the thread asap.

I look forward to your prompt attention.

The email prompted me to restore this deleted thread and to invite all Skeptics, investigative journalists and other interested parties to look into this company and its products. Something fishy is going on.

I'll give 2 months 'donating member status' to the person that writes the best article / review of this product and company.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	for giving us a chance to take this hoax apart
	Fantastic reaction to the situation Alfa, it's great that ppl like u put so much time and effort into making the truth k...

[Spucky]

A randomized double-blind study of neuroelectric therapy in opiate and cocaine detoxification.


University of Pennsylvania-Philadelphia VAMC Center for the Study of Addiction.
Prior research on the use of transcranial neuroelectric stimulation suggested that the application of low-amperage, low-frequency alternating current via surface electrodes placed in the mastoid region could relieve the physiological signs and subjective symptoms of withdrawal and craving during opiate detoxification. These effects were reported without gradual tapering of the opiate or the addition of other medications. To test the efficacy of one particular form of neuroelectric therapy (NET), a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study was conducted comparing active NET and placebo NET in the treatment of withdrawal and stabilization of 18 opiate-dependent and 25 cocaine-dependent subjects. Scores on scales for measuring substance withdrawal and craving for each abused substance, as well as the multiple dimensions of mood, were compared for degree of difference across the 10 days of treatment. There was an overall completion rate of 88%, with both cocaine and opiate groups reporting a comfortable detoxification and substantial improvement over the course of a 12-day hospitalization. There was no significant difference between the active or placebo groups, suggesting that placebo was as effective as active NET in reducing drug withdrawal or craving during cocaine and opiate detoxification. However, all placebo patients received 0.2 mA of current, which may have provided a degree of active current. Suggestions are offered for future research.

PMID: 1458046 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1458046

Do somebody know how high to Dose can be in the UK. (the Web say 80mg.?)
Because in Switzerland they start with a Dose of only 20mg. Methadone!

On You Tube is also a documentation about "Net" but it look like a Placebo-effect?!!?

I add. also the Basics, made in Russia: http://www.tes.spb.ru/EnglishVersion...dTES/index.htm
I am very interested into this Topic, because of all the Money (all my)

And here a collection of Files but the scource is not known by me and look a little bit "strange" but the study`s look real!
http://www.biostimtherapy.com/newsle...act_files.html

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Excellent link
	Excellent find, any more studies like this would be great!

[tony_NWC]

Well i see this thread is active again anyone who wants to see the original pages which have been deleted can see them at newwaysclinic . com / forum . html

I will keep a copy of these this page as it usual for it to be edited and bias.

as it wont let me paste large text yet this is going to be a long process but bear with me...

tony_NWC added 1 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

now to deal with the isses raised, this site is heavily eidited so any points they dont like are deleted however they feel free to attack and cyber bully me

tony_NWC added 2 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...

You can read all about Rife and google and also google Morris Fishbeine head of the AMA who was convicted of fraus and raketeering and imprisoned.

tony_NWC added 0 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

sorry Fishbein was convicted of fraud and racketeering

tony_NWC added 2 Minutes and 41 Seconds later...

as a result of the previous thread, 3 people did contact us for help and are now booked in for treatment, so we welcome the interest in our treatment.

I dont know why these people have launched an attack on our business and treatment, as neither Alfa, Dickon or Potter have ever helped anyone detox from opitaes neither are they able to, if so I would like to know how many you have helped and what methods you use?

tony_NWC added 0 Minutes and 34 Seconds later...

Dr. Morris Fishbein (1889-1976) originally studied to be a clown. Realizing he could make more money as a doctor, he entered medical school (where he failed anatomy), then barely graduated. He never treated a patient in his life.

tony_NWC added 0 Minutes and 12 Seconds later...

Why is he so important? Because he became head of the AMA, a position that he used to enrich himself and crush legitimate therapies out of existence. He appeared to be motivated solely by money and power.

tony_NWC added 0 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

In 1924, not surprisingly (perhaps inevitably) one of the directors of the AMA became involved in a scandal and had to resign. He appointed Dr Morris Fishbein to take his place. Fishbein ultimately took control of the AMA, and by 1934 owned all of the stock. In his new position he was able to assume dictatorial control of the state licensing boards and made it as difficult as he could for any doctor who did not join. He, and the three doctors who formed the corporation, were little more than extortionists, ones who made millions by using the power of the State.

tony_NWC added 0 Minutes and 10 Seconds later...

As head of the AMA (and editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association from 1924-1949), he decided which drugs could be sold to the public based only how much advertising money he could extort from drug manufacturers, whom he required to place expensive ads in the JAMA. There were no drug-testing agencies, only Fishbein. It was irrelevant if the drugs worked. Ultimately Fishbein was convicted of racketeering charges.

tony_NWC added 0 Minutes and 40 Seconds later...

As you can see Dickon restated his comments about Rife knowing them to be wrong. This forum has no credibility as it is not free speech and edited to paint a certain picture.

However I welcome serious debate so any questions?

tony_NWC added 16 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Alfa

This thread has been cleaned up. It attracted a troll with several accounts, defending the interests of New Ways by the us of flaming and threatening members, instead of respectful arguments.

This thread only came to my attention, because I received a legal threat by email, from info@newwaysclinic.com telling me to remove this thread, because
The email prompted me to restore this deleted thread and to invite all Skeptics, investigative journalists and other interested parties to look into this company and its products. Something fishy is going on.

I'll give 2 months 'donating member status' to the person that writes the best article / review of this product and company.

This email was not a legal threat, it was a request to stop such meaningless debate. However I see you are inciting an attack on our business and even offering a reward. I will contact your hosting company for thier comments about this attack and cyber bullying.

You have taken down the original page, re-edited it and re-instated it to be bias and launch an attack on our business for no reason.

tony_NWC added 139 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

[QUOTE=Potter;695341]
Testimonials, the old stand by of the quack doctor. Funny how real doctors don't need testimonials, but when you look through old quack publications, you can find hundreds, if not thousands of them.

These reasons doctors don't need testimonials is because they are funded by the state and have an endless supply of patients however you must be aware of doctors misprescribing drugs and killing patients? If not i can thousands of news items about it. Google ADR - Adverse Drug Reactions

Making assumptions and acting on them are fact, does make it so.

Emily Jackson, professor of law at the London School of Economics, said cases could potentially be brought against either the GP or the manufacturer for a failure to warn patients of potential risks. Several prominent convictions from the past three decades suggest that doctors can be held legally responsible for the role prescription drugs played in a patient's death.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Please stop posting incessantly. Think about what you want to say, then post.
	PLEASE stop posting back to back! It doesn't help your cause! Making 1 larger, well-written post, however, WOULD.

[Dickon]

I think we should let the web site speak for itself:

Originally Posted by nwc website

Formula 23®
There are 285,000 frequency patterns available, the correct 23 patterns which help correct imbalances and detoxify the body of alcohol or opiate based drugs have been painstakingly selected and assembled in the correct sequence to produce the effects of Bio-Reduction® Therapy using what has become known as 'Formula 23®'.
In addition, by correctly analysing any addictive substance(s), whether it's cigarettes, alcohol or drugs it is possible to identify their ‘frequency range' and adjust Formula 23® accordingly to neutralise that substance(s) and cancel or erase it completely.
After treatment the body does not know it has had that substances and therefore does not crave/need it anymore.
The body can also absorb the beneficial effects of a substance(s) to aid quicker recovery. It is safe, painless & very effective.
Cigarettes
We correctly analyse your brand of cigarettes to identify their frequency range. This information is then processed and added to Formula 23®.
This process produces 'phase cancellation' which means that the positive frequencies of nicotine in the body are cancelled out by the constructed frequencies produced by the Bio-Reduction formula.
This helps to stop the cravings to smoke as the nicotine is neutralised and the body begins to detoxify/erase naturally.

I really don't need to go beyond the "there are 285,000 frequency patterns available". Not 284,999. Not 285,001, but 285,000. Apparently. Well, if I must 23 are picked, but then they are changed. Er...... So a marlboro is a 57.54 hertz and a silk cut is 58.3? How have these things been selected, sequenced. How do you know if you got it right?

And some bloke from the AMA being a crook or a clown means your treatment works why?

This is beyond logic and reason. If you have enough faith follow the patent pending Dickon Cluck-tronic (R) treatment method instead. For 1 hour, 3 times a day stick a chicken suit on and repeat the mantra "Cluck, cluck, I am clucking". Do this for 8 days and then burn the chicken suit, and voila you are no longer clucking!

[Clucking is English slang for withdrawing in case you don't know]

This method is of course most effective with opiates, but a giant cigarette costume can be substituted for tobacco addiction.

You are free to attach electrodes to the fingers or genitals and apply a mild current if that works for you. Cluck-tronic(R) method has not yet been approved by the NHs, but that's because they are all wankers and hate me, because I'd put the addiction industry out of business if Cluck-tronic(R) were made available.

Dickon [Quack, quack, quack]

P.S. Sometimes even moderators are allowed to be silly!

[tony_NWC]

so what you are saying is, because you don't understand it, it can not work.

I thought this forum was for sensible debate? Your comments are rather childish.

Apart from being silly, maybe you could tell me how you help people stop using drugs?

tony_NWC added 16 Minutes and 41 Seconds later...

in repsonse to the request for scientific evidence.... clinical trials cost millions of pounds and we do not have the financial resources to produce such data however this doesnt mean that the treatment does not work.

What's the difference between peer reviewed and client testimonials?
It is not well known that the effectiveness of most drugs are exaggerated by the selective publication of favorable results. Peer review is supposed to be a community of impartial experts in a given (and often narrowly defined) field, who are qualified and able to perform an impartial review of a treatment method. However when the NTA released their 'peer reviewed' addiction study published in the Lancet medical journal [Oct 2009], 7 out of the 9 authors were employed by the NTA and the remaining 2 had financial links to the NTA. Critics were outraged that the Lancet would even publish such a study as it was clearly bias and not impartial. One leading expert said ‘Clinical data, evidence based and scientifically proven all mean very little in reality, what really counts is how drugs perform in the real world and to establish that we have to listen to the people who use them'. However genuine client testimonials (statements) are truly impartial as they are an honest portrayal of their results from the said treatment program. As one scholar said, 'clinical data is easily manipulated, true anecdotal evidence is not'.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Please could you post some real, SCIENTIFIC evidence that your treatment works. Anecdotal evidence and opinion mean noth...
	"What is the difference between perr reviewed and client testimonials" Did you really just say that?
	You are behaving in a dengerous, delusional and manipulative manner. Please seek help from the NHS. Honestly, they do no...

[Dickon]

It is you who do not understand the cluck-tronic method. How dare you claim it is silly. It has a 200% success rate. This can be deduced mathematically by the fact it satisfies the formula

[Success rate (as a percentage)/100] * Total Number of clients = Number of clients cured by means of cluck-tronic(R) method.

In case you are not sure of this notice that [200/100]*0=0.

So cluck-tronic technology is 103% more successful than you're spurious claim of 97% success for bio-reduction. For everybody treated, someone untreated recovers spontaneously.

Now that's science you can take to the bank and eat.

Dickon

[missparkles]

Sparkles doesn't know a lot about science or sound frequencies, in fact what she does know can be written on the back of a postage stamp, and there'd still be room for the Lords Prayer, maybe twice if you write it small enough. Ask anyone at DF, she's as dumb as a box of rocks. However, she has tried various complimentary therapies such as acupuncture and hypnosis, she's even tried using "white noise" (binaural beats) because she was given anecdotal evidence (that's someone telling her) from a source she deems credible (that's her psychologist) that it was effective. And although she cannot say for definite that these therapies have worked, she can say she felt better after using them.

Now she knows that her own mind is so powerful, although she's not even aware of it, and she finds it stunning that if she closes her eyes and imagines a lemon, her mouth will water. That's how powerful it is, a thought can produce a physical reaction. So that could be the answer, it may be the placebo effect. And to a certain extent this placebo effect does play a big part in addiction recovery. As you begin to get clean you feel better, this positive feeling makes you feel good and it sorta evolves, a bit like a snowball gets bigger as you roll it down hill. So maybe this Bio- Reduction therapy (apologies, don't know how to type the trade mark thingy) works in a similar way? As Dickon said, you make something seem credible (include a ritual or dressing up, even scientific sounding words), get people to believe it, and hell, before you know it you have a cure on your hands.

But my question is a little simpler, as I said science is beyond me. If Sparkles had used this machine 5 years ago, when she was heavily addicted to heroin, after it had dealt with the physical WD symptoms, how does this machine deal with all her shit? You know the stuff, the psychological trauma she'd been through, the feelings of low self esteem, all the emotional problems she couldn't cope with that necessitated her using drugs in the first place? How does this machine re-educate the mind to learn new, healthy ways to deal with future problems?

Now if it can only treat WD symptoms then it's not a recovery treatment, it's a detox treatment. Recovery takes years sometimes. Years of evaluation, self reflection, and finally using the knowledge and awareness gained through these processes to change old thinking patterns and beliefs. How does this treatment address these vital issues? Because if you just get rid of the drug, which is only a symptom of the problem, you're still left with the cause.

Lastly I'd like to answer your question about how many people Alfa and Dickon have helped stop their dependency. Firstly by hosting this site Alfa has enabled 5 people to my knowledge, with Dickons excellent support and advice, to break free from their dependency. But that's only since Sparkles has been a member of DF, 3-4 months, but today all 5 are still drug free. But then DF offers detox, WD and PAWS support which is as intense as is needed, and as ongoing as the person wants it to be. And if you have no money, all you need is a computer and an internet connection, so it's good value for money.

Thanks for listening, I'll be interested to hear your response to my queries.
TIA.
Sparkles.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Excellent questions and important points raised.
	excellent, calm response to OP, raises important points and shows the real work DF does, brilliant!

[Spucky]

My Opinion is that the Theory behind this science is not really a wrong Path,
there are many aspects that looks logical and helpful.

(have to look through some pages to get a Englishversion!)

It`s a known fact that the big Therapy-Business (incl. Pharma-Companies) have no interest in that and lawsuit many alternative Ideas!

@ Tony NWC., if you speak for that company i will ask you:
"Why not give 10-15 free Treatments for well known Members of the Df."?
Compare to real Advertisements it will be a very cheap campaign
and give you back a lot of time that you will safe instead of doing Trolling!

And don`t fight with this place, because it`s also a very helpful Forum

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent "challenge" to the OP! well thought up!

[Alfa]

When Tony (if that his real name) from New Ways clinic opened several forum accounts here and used them to impersonate satisfied clients, and when he threatened and flamed members this got him banned and disqualified his from further discussion. This affects any future account he will make as well.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thank you

[adzket]

alfa thank you for reopening this thread i started as a way of this being discused. however i am sorry you got threatend with legal action. this was not my intention at all. i just wanted this aparent treatment to be disscused properly. which now it seams it has with lots of people raising very good points.

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by adzket

i just wanted this aparent treatment to be disscused properly. which now it seams it has with lots of people raising very good points.

How do we can continue with this discussion?

When i read the posting from Dickon it seems like he denied the possibility of a influence of "Hertz" to the Withdrawal-Symptoms,
or do the People have trouble with the Price?

[MrG]

How do we continue?

By acknowledging that this sham of a treatment has *no* place in modern medicine, has absolutely no valid research to support its ludicrous claims and, instead, merely repeats ad-nauseum that modern science and the medical community at-large has it all wrong?

The rabid response from the company is typical of a borderline personality type, "I'm not crazy, you are!", perspective.

Then the subsequent "I'll sue you all!" rantings from its representative simply serve to explain why.

We are merely interested observers who are discussing the possible (in)validity of this treatment based on a requirement for valid, evidence-based, proof to support its claims, of which we have seen none.

The following observation was emailed to me by a friend:
Oh, BTW and FYI, peppering one's, supposedly, credible internet shop-window with cut'n'paste clippings from the rule page of a forum one, apparently, has no respect for, whilst listing numerous grievances against anonymous internet users is hardly indicative of a measured and mature response. Although given that, as P.T. Barnum was quoted as saying "There's a sucker born every minute", I imagine that it is both the viewpoint of, not only, the vendors of this snake-oil with regards to their customers, but also the company's lawyers with regards to their hissy-fit throwing litigation-happy client who fails to see that, by drawing himself into a playground-style confrontation, it serves only to further damage his reputation whilst filling their pockets.

[g666d]

...oops, mr g beat me to it.
"Cigarettes
We correctly analyse your brand of cigarettes to identify their frequency range. This information is then processed and added to Formula 23®.
This process produces 'phase cancellation' which means that the positive frequencies of nicotine in the body are cancelled out by the constructed frequencies produced by the Bio-Reduction formula.
This helps to stop the cravings to smoke as the nicotine is neutralised and the body begins to detoxify/erase naturally."

well, I don't understand their explanation either. If the 'frequencies' cancel nicotine, wouldn't this make more withdrawal? where does the nicotine go? why is there no mention of acetylcholine?
If there is nicotine in your bloodstream, when it reaches the brain it will mimic acetylcholine, a natural neurotransmitter. The increased levels of this neurotransmitter fire off dopamine, and initiate flight-or-fight pathways to fire too (increased heart rate, faster breathing.) The brains response to this false activation is to lower sensitivity to acetylcholine. Removal of nicotine from a brain used to saturation causes discomfort and anxiety, because dopamergic response is dulled.
I can't see where the magical fuckula-23® frequencies would have any effect (what kind of frequencies? sound? light? emr?)
Do these frequencies fire off dopamine? or mimic it?
How does the brain know to re-sensitize to acetylcholine?
Admittedly swim has only had a brief look at their site (professionally authored). But it looks, sounds and thinks like shit.
The poster who said he represented the site repeatedly ignored requests for reason into his claims and some kind of basis for his assertions. He was rude, unhelpful and slightly unbalanced. He insulted the users of DF, and blatantly advertised his 'product', mis-representing himself as a former addict who had come clean through this treatment. He would not go into details about the process, from the point of the user or from perspective of its action.
I don't need to know any more to come to the conclusion that this is a scam. If there was any truth to it, it would have evidenced itself in ways other than a bunch of testimonials, which i highly suspect are all written by the same person.
He has already proven himself a liar, and should be tarred and feathered.
^my messy thoughts, but this topic doesn't deserve much consideration. Having watched this thread from the beginning i find it interesting he now harps on about the removal of posts that violated forum rules (spamming being the least). His claim that the deleted posts were in some way benificial to his cause is fucking ridiculous, they were a bunch of insults and a tirade of abuse to potter and dickon. He would never answer questions related to the therapy, choosing to attack the medical profession and DFers instead.
I thought politicians were bad...

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by MrG

How do we continue?

By acknowledging that this sham of a treatment has *no* place in modern medicine, has absolutely no valid research to support its ludicrous claims and, instead, merely repeats ad-nauseum that modern science and the medical community at-large has it all wrong.

But let us forget all this "Company-Storys" and focus our Ideas

There is Evidence for a decrease of needed Narcotics and Pain-Medications if E-Impulses are used,
there is also Evidence for a "supporting Effect" in a Opioid-Withdrawal as well as Depressions, etc..

This Evidence and Study`s are made by People without a "conflict if Interest"!

If we really want to discus something we can`t be blind for that!

For example:

[top] Electroacupuncture Treatment Normalized Sleep Disturbance in Morphine Withdrawal Rats

Yi-Jing Li, Fei Zhong, Peng Yu, Ji-Sheng Han, Cai-Lian Cui and Liu-Zhen Wu Neuroscience Research Institute, Beijing 100191, P. R. China



Sleep disturbance is considered as an important symptom of acute and protracted opiate withdrawal. Current results suggest that sleep disturbance may be taken as a predictor of relapse. Appropriate sleep enhancement therapy will be in favor of the retention in treatment for opiate addicts. Our previous studies have shown that electroacupuncture (EA) is effective in suppressing morphine withdrawal syndrome. The aim of the present study is to investigate the effect of 2 and 100 Hz EA on the sleep disturbance during morphine withdrawal. Rats were made dependent on morphine by repeated morphine injections (escalating doses of 5–80 mg kg–1, subcutaneously, twice a day) for 5 days. EA of 2 or 100 Hz was given twice a day for 3 days, starting at 48 h after the last morphine injection. Electroencephalogram and electromyogram were monitored at the end of the first and the last EA treatments, respectively. Results showed that non-rapid eye movement (NREM) sleep, REM sleep and total sleep time decreased dramatically, while the sleep latency prolonged significantly during acute morphine withdrawal. Both 2 and 100 Hz EA produced a significant increase in NREM sleep, REM sleep and total sleep time. It was suggested that EA could be a potential treatment for sleep disturbance during morphine withdrawal.


Sleep disturbance is a significant feature of acute and protracted withdrawal syndrome during detoxification from opiates. Howe et al. (1,2) reported that heroin-dependent patients showed a marked increase in waking and decrease in both slow wave and rapid eye movement (REM) sleep during acute heroin withdrawal. The patients’ total sleep time was dramatically suppressed on Days 2 and 3 of withdrawal, and remained below normal control values on Days 5–7.
Methadone, as a long-acting opioid-agonist, is widely used as a substitution of heroin for the treatment of withdrawal syndrome and prevention of relapse in heroin-dependent patients. However, the opiate addicts often complain of sleep difficulties during methadone maintenance treatment (MMT). Some of them, in fact, attribute their premature exit from this therapy to sleep difficulties (3–5). Indeed, the persistent insomnia in drug-dependency may provoke heroin relapse during methadone maintenance (6).
Our previous clinical studies have demonstrated that transcutaneous electrical acupoint stimulation (TEAS) could ameliorate heroin abstinence syndrome and postpone relapse in heroin addicts (7,8). In fact, TEAS was reported to show an immediate hypnotic effect during the treatment in one-third of the patients (9). It seemed rational to further study the effect of electroacupuncture (EA) on sleep enhancement with measurement of electroencephalogram (EEG) and electromyogram (EMG) in animal model of morphine withdrawal.
The purpose of this study was to characterize the sleep profile of morphine withdrawal rats with EEG and EMG, and to evaluate whether 2 and 100 Hz EA can improve sleep disturbance during morphine withdrawal.

Continue to read here:
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nep133

or:

Electroacupuncture attenuates morphine withdrawal signs and c-Fos expression in the central nucleus of the amygdala in freely moving rats

Abstract

Experimental efforts for understanding the mechanisms of electroacupuncture (EA) for opiate addiction are partially hampered by restraint stress. In unrestrained animals, it is difficult to perform EA stimulation at acupuncture points frequently selected on the four limbs. The present study was performed to evaluate the effect of EA at the acupuncture point Shen-Shu (BL.23) on morphine withdrawal signs and c-Fos expression of the amygdala in freely moving rats or restrained rats. We applied immunohistochemistry to detect c-Fos-positive nuclei. Corticosterone levels and behavioral responses were measured during EA stimulation. The needles were bilaterally inserted and fixed at BL.23, and 100-Hz electric stimulation was conducted 30 min before naloxone-precipitated withdrawal. In both freely moving rats and restrained rats, EA significantly reduced the signs of morphine withdrawal. Notably, EA stimulation in freely moving rats attenuated c-Fos expression in the central nucleus of the amygdala while EA in restrained animals increased this response. In addition, the restrained rats emitted greater levels of vocalization and facial expression than freely moving rats during EA stimulation. Corticosterone levels were also significantly higher in restrained animals after EA stimulation. The new EA paradigm demonstrated in the present study might help the analysis of certain physiological responses induced by EA that would otherwise have been hindered by restraint stress.



Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...08e94ee9e2d7cc

[g666d]

^that should be in a new thread, and not associated with bio-reduction lies

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by g666d

^that should be in a new thread, and not associated with bio-reduction lies

afaik they followed the same Idea, or not?

Now i am confused

[g666d]

well, I was thinking that the behaviour of the 'company representative' invalidated credibility of the process, if there is any. His reaction to scepticism was beyond extreme, and he wouldn't provide basis so others could understand his perspective. He expected his words to be accepted at face-value.

I don't know if these are the same or not. I have trouble understanding the mechanism in the first place. If spucky thinks it is appropriate to place his discussion here, then that is all good. I wouldn't like to see credible information associated with the illegitimacy of the bio-reps behaviour, and vice-versa.

[MrG]

Originally Posted by Spucky

afaik they followed the same Idea, or not?

Now i am confused

No, they are not the same idea, Electroacupunture is more akin to the type of benefit users of TENS systems experience. It's more to do with nerve endings being stimulated, thereby distracting the brain from other symptoms.

Bio-resonance, AFAIK, claims to 'tune in' to a specific frequency in order to trigger some sort of 'resonance' in the 'bad stuff' thereby destroying it.

Feel free to enlighten me if I'm wrong.

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by MrG

No, they are not the same idea, Electroacupunture is more akin to the type of benefit users of TENS systems experience. It's more to do with nerve endings being stimulated, thereby distracting the brain from other symptoms.

Feel free to enlighten me if I'm wrong.

You are right, this are 2 different Techniques as far as they explain on their Webpage!

I am sorry for this confusion!