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DMT and Ayahuasca DMT, Phalaris, Yopo, Mimosa, Virola & Ayahuasca

 
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  #1  
Old 19-10-2009, 00:18
MajSlayer420 MajSlayer420 is offline
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Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Hello,
SWIM would like to know if Marsfold Tek is the best current Tek for Mimosa extraction?

SWIMs found many Teks and is not sure what one has the best yield.

Thanks
  #2  
Old 19-10-2009, 00:35
Gradient Gradient is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Marsofold's tek is excellent for extractions (likely the most comprehensive approach), but product yield will largely be a factor of one's general understanding of how to best foster A/B extractions; dramatic increases can be observed from introducing heat to specific steps, increasing solute surface area (powdering bark), and the amount time each step of the reaction is allocated. Product quality is likewise a factor of the methods employed to execute each step, not inherent to any one tek; large, clean crystals aren't intrinsic to any one tek, but are largely a factor of how meticulously water is removed from the organic solvent used as well as the method of recovery of DMT (evaporation, freeze-precipitation).
  #3  
Old 19-10-2009, 02:03
Neosapien Neosapien is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Marsofold is the place to start. Skip the ammonia wash and recrystalize though.
  #4  
Old 19-10-2009, 03:18
MajSlayer420 MajSlayer420 is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Thanks for the the good info.

On skipping the ammonia wash,,, they come out that clean I guess?

Peace, and thanks again, both of you..
  #5  
Old 19-10-2009, 05:18
Neosapien Neosapien is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Yes, it's a fairly clean tek and a recrystalization or polar wash of the NP is more effective at separating impurities anyway. The yield from a freeze precip of VM+P naptha will be perfectly usable though. After that, one can play around with refinements.
  #6  
Old 23-11-2009, 15:28
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

SWIM found that using pretty much any STB tek is a good way to go for freebase DMT. There is another method on another forum that uses Fumarate Acid Saturated Acetone to produce DMT Fumarate, which is better for pharmahuasca...
  #7  
Old 23-11-2009, 22:34
Insomniacsdream Insomniacsdream is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Best way is to read a lot and decide yourself. Swim went for a stb when they did it and got 7g of 500g of minimossa hostalis root bark. You can then purify (i would advise recrystilisation with activated carbon to filter) and you can get a lot of white clean dmt.
  #8  
Old 24-11-2009, 21:54
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Marsofold's TEK alllll the way. It's easy for novices, and has great yeilds to boot!
  #9  
Old 26-11-2009, 09:07
Insomniacsdream Insomniacsdream is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SullyGuy View Post
Marsofold's TEK alllll the way. It's easy for novices, and has great yeilds to boot!
Trust me acid to base extractions have pathetic yields compared to straight to base. The difference is acid to base extractions come out a lot purer first try.
  #10  
Old 27-11-2009, 15:54
sentia sentia is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Hi all,

SWIM is new to hallucinogens but has read a lot about DMT and would like to give it a go. SWIM has pieced together her own protocol from others... what do other SWIMmers think of the following:

Materials:
- mimosa hostilis root bark (50 g)
- NaOH (50 g)
- solvent (150 ml) N.B. since SWIM is UK-based, she will be using Ronson "Ronsonol" Lighter Fluid (SOLVENT NAPHTHA (PETROLEUM), LIGHT ALIPH.; LOW BOILING POINT NAPHTH; Benzene Content <0.1%)

Safety Data Sheet Ronson Lighter Fluid May 08.pdf

1. Powder 50 g mimosa hostilis root bark.
2. Dissolve 50 g NaOH in 750 ml water.
3. Add the powdered root bark, shake and leave for 1 hour.
4. Add 50 ml room temperature solvent and swirl for 1 minute. Let the solvent layer separate and repeat 3x in total.
5. Decant the solvent layer and set aside.
6. Repeat steps 4 & 5, 3x in total. Optional: leave the last extraction for up to 7 days before decanting.
7. Add a pinch of sodium carbonate to 50 ml water, and add about 10 ml of this to the pooled solvent extract (~150 ml). Shake vigorously and allow the layers to separate. Discard the aqueous layer.
8. Repeat the wash step 2x using water only.
9. Allow the solvent to evaporate to ~1/3 - 1/5 of its original volume (i.e. final volume ~30 - 50 ml), either by placing in a large flat dish in a warm spot, or by heating over a water bath. Ensure adequate ventilation and avoid sources of ignition.
10. Place the solvent at -20°C (freezer) overnight.
11. Carefully and quickly decant the solvent from any crystals attached to the surface of the container and allow any remaining solvent to evaporate.
12. Scrape crystals from the surface of the container and enjoy...

SWIM will post the details of her extraction (timing, yield etc.) in due course. Thanks to everyone for making these forums so helpful!

Post Quality Evaluations:
Nice tek. I specifically like the washes with sodium carbonate and h20
  #11  
Old 28-11-2009, 08:11
SullyGuy SullyGuy is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniacsdream View Post
Trust me acid to base extractions have pathetic yields compared to straight to base. The difference is acid to base extractions come out a lot purer first try.
Mind elaborating on that?
  #12  
Old 29-11-2009, 11:09
Insomniacsdream Insomniacsdream is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SullyGuy View Post
Mind elaborating on that?
Read my other post, you can get double the yield by doing a straight to base extraction and its easier.
  #13  
Old 29-11-2009, 12:35
soulfood soulfood is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Really you can get the same yields with any method. It just depends on your efficency with the route chosen.

A good STB involves leaving the initial vessel to soak for 3-4 days before your first pull. You can pull after an hour or so, but it would be quite pointless. Then you keep pulling until it exausted, then leave it another few days and try again.

Using heat at any stage in an STB with give you more oils to clean up, so I find it's best to let time do the work. Also a good strong solvent like D-limonene is amazing at getting every drop of goodness out of the soup. It evaps really badly and you can't freeze precip with it but I get more than double the yield with d-limonene that I get with a more standard solvent.

The good thing about an A/B is that you are extracting the DMT in it's more stable form, so heat can be used to speed up the initial extract without much if any degradation to your material. It's also possible to do n-oxide conversions in this first stage which will also greatly improve your yields if using a standard solvent and not d-limonene/xylene/DCM etc.
  #14  
Old 30-11-2009, 11:48
Insomniacsdream Insomniacsdream is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulfood View Post
Really you can get the same yields with any method. It just depends on your efficency with the route chosen.

A good STB involves leaving the initial vessel to soak for 3-4 days before your first pull. You can pull after an hour or so, but it would be quite pointless. Then you keep pulling until it exausted, then leave it another few days and try again.

Using heat at any stage in an STB with give you more oils to clean up, so I find it's best to let time do the work. Also a good strong solvent like D-limonene is amazing at getting every drop of goodness out of the soup. It evaps really badly and you can't freeze precip with it but I get more than double the yield with d-limonene that I get with a more standard solvent.

The good thing about an A/B is that you are extracting the DMT in it's more stable form, so heat can be used to speed up the initial extract without much if any degradation to your material. It's also possible to do n-oxide conversions in this first stage which will also greatly improve your yields if using a standard solvent and not d-limonene/xylene/DCM etc.
Swim did four pulls each half an hour apart and yielded a quarter ounce off a half kilo of root bark powder.
  #15  
Old 30-11-2009, 14:31
soulfood soulfood is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

care to add any more details relevant to the thread, like what tek you used etc?
  #16  
Old 30-11-2009, 21:12
Insomniacsdream Insomniacsdream is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulfood View Post
care to add any more details relevant to the thread, like what tek you used etc?
Didn't follow a specific tek. 4 litres water, a lb of lye, 500g powdered root bark and a little under 400 ml of white spirit for each pull.
  #17  
Old 30-11-2009, 22:23
soulfood soulfood is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

No recrystalisations?
  #18  
Old 30-11-2009, 23:47
Insomniacsdream Insomniacsdream is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

And again i will say read my previous post i recrystalised once and used activated carbon to clean it.

Insomniacsdream added 1 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

Disclaimer by I, swim means swim, No this makes no sense to "swim" either but apparently grants "swim" a powerful defence in court :/

Last edited by Insomniacsdream; 30-11-2009 at 23:47. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #19  
Old 01-12-2009, 02:18
soulfood soulfood is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

ah sorry... SWIM was being lazy and didn't read the whole thread properly.

SWIM's an STB man himself recently, more for convenience sake than anything else. But he's not noticing any increase in his yields from the different tek. With an A/B SWIM can exaust all the bark in a couple of hours, but with STB's if he does all the pulls within 24 hours of setting up the vessel he'll yield about 0.5%. Then has to keep pulling a few days apart to completely clear the bark of relevant alkaloids. Admittedly a little heat speeds things up, but it collects more oils that way also.
  #20  
Old 01-12-2009, 03:20
Gradient Gradient is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Perhaps this discussion might benefit from a dialogue regarding the theory behind Marsofold's (A/B) extraction vs. the straight-to-base method?

First, a look at the DMT molecule:


Please allow me to draw your attention to the two left-most columns underneath the structure of the molecule; the first column is the pH of a given solution, and the second is the % of resulting neutral species - we see that between a pH of 9.6 and 9.8, 50% of the compound is a neutral species while the other half is charged. This is a reasonable ballpark for the pKa (point at which 1/2 of the molecules are ionized in solution) of DMT. Accordingly, a pH environment higher (more basic) than 9.8 will push DMT molecules to crash out of solution as freebase, while anything lower will render them to be charged species (salts).


The concept behind beginning with an acid is to convert all potential DMT-freebase into salt (DMT acetate, fumarate, HCl, etc.) - thereby rendering all DMT molecules soluble in a polar solvent (water). When the water is filtered of all the undesirables, DMT salts remain. Aqueous solution is then basified to convert DMT back to freebase form, rendering it soluble in non-polar solvents (naptha, in the case of Marsofold's) - facilitating easier and faster recovery (freeze precipitation, evap., etc.).

Here's where the interesting part comes in: is DMT stored in plant-sources as a freebase or a salt? If the plant-source is powdered, and an acid-base method is employed, it shouldn't even really matter! - as all of stored DMT salts will already be soluble in the aqueous first step, and any potential DMT freebase will be converted to salts by whatever acid is employed. Accordingly, an A/B method (like Marsofold's) will theoretically be higher-yielding; STB methods will miss potential product upon this first step, as DMT freebase will not be optimally soluble in water used to soak bark. Extractions can be enhanced dramatically by the use of cosolvents to increase solubility of whatever DMT species are present.

After that, the quality of the product will purely be a function of the solvents & reactants chosen, as well as how meticulously each step is executed. Keep in mind: DMT is typically not the only alkaloid present in plant-sources.

Last edited by Gradient; 01-12-2009 at 03:30.
  #21  
Old 03-12-2009, 04:57
soulfood soulfood is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't DMT freebase soluble in basic solutions?
  #22  
Old 04-12-2009, 00:56
Gradient Gradient is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

The term freebase doesn't mean soluble in basic solution. Salts are soluble in polar solvents (such as water), and are the product of an acid/base reaction. Freebase are practically insoluble in polar solvents - which is why a non-polar solvent is used to recover DMT subsequent to basifying the filtered-water solution. DMT salts, generated from the first acidifying step, will change to freebase in a basic-enough environment (above around 9) - thereby making them soluble in non-polar solvent (such as naptha). DMT acetate (product of DMT freebase and aceitic acid, or vinegar) complicates this a bit, but follows the same general trend.

To simply things:
DMT freebase &/or salt + acid = DMT salt (soluble in water)
DMT salt + good base = DMT freebase (soluble in non-polar solvents)
  #23  
Old 09-12-2009, 04:03
soulfood soulfood is offline
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

No, I meant isn't freebase DMT soluble in water that is made to a high pH i.e. 12-14?

I know 5-HO-DMT is so I imagined NN-DMT should be the same.
  #24  
Old 09-12-2009, 04:24
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

The polar alcohol group makes 5-HO-DMT much more soluble in water. N,N simply means that the two methyl groups are on the ethylamine in DMT, and is an extended name for DMT. The compound will have some solubility in water, sure - but minor enough that organic solvents will sufficiently recover the vast majority of DMT.
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:49
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Re: Whats the best Tek for DMT Extraction?

Ah righto

cheers for that

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