Tapering - Tell Doctor or not?

[Synesthesiac]

Well, Swims developed a slight benzo habit over the last months despite his best efforts. As soon as there is a social situation now he has to neck either a Xanax, Valium or Rivotril to chill himself out. On days where does not need to socialize he can just about bear the effects of not being on them, but gets extremely restless, very tight chest and muslces, can not conentrate on anything he usually does, dreadful insomnia, and generally feels very on edge. I'd say he can get by on 10-20mg of diazepam a day, 10mg daily being the minimum he will need. On social occasions he will do more, 20mg diazepam or 2-4mg Clonazepam, and drink and use other CNS depressants like booze and GBL (although has not used GBL now in two weeks and is not planning to).

So Swim has 8x1mg xanax, 8x2mg clonazepam and 6x10mg diazepam left now and is running low. He knows he needs to taper and feels like an idiot for even writing this post its so obvious what he has to do. But something always happens, he'll get down to 5mg of diaz a day, then the parents will announce they're having a weekend party. Back to square one. Or someones coming over for a big meal, so swim has to redose to ease the social anxiety. They dont know swims using. And they know that somethings up, if only swim could tell them the truth that the reason why swim doesn't want to socialize for a while is he's getting mild WD's and need to be left alone till they have gone. They think swim need more social contact. Its the blind leading the blind. They would go mad if they thought swim been using benzo's.

So, swims now booked to go and see his NHS GP at 11:30 today. Should swim tell him the whole situation? which involves admitting to using (technically illegal) off prescription medication. Or should swim grit it and try to taper himself?

If swim does tell him, is there a chance he will believe me there and then, and put me on a decent diazepam taper plan?

Should swim bring in evidence in the form of empty blister packs and the few pills he has left incase he does not believe swim, or is that not a good idea?

Thanks.

[Abrad]

Tell the doctor everything. If he/she is not helpful go and see another doctor.

[Synesthesiac]

Thanks,

Should swim bring in evidence like empy blister packs in case the doctors thinks he is lying about his habit?

Also whats peoples thoughts about not telling the parents? Because it would be such less hassle to just taper within a week or two and them never know, as much as swim hates keeping things from his parents.

[Abrad]

It wouldn't hurt.

[whitenoise]

SWIM's best advice for you is to be honest about the situation to SWI'your physician about how they have been using a couple of benzodiazepine medications to deal with an anxiety problem. Bringing in the empty blister packs could possibly send up red flags to the doter that could prevent him from prescribing SWIy the medication in the doses he needs. The amount SWIy is taking is not too excessive, but it is more than most medical professionals SWIM has known feel comfortable prescribing to newer patients to start with. SWIM suggests that SWIy avoids telling the doctor the extent of his use and taper down if he can. After this if SWIy still feels they need the medication in higher doses he should go back to the doctor in a month and tell them that the medication is helping but he is discovering he doesn't getting enough to deal with the frequency of the occurrences. If SWIy can't last the month he might want to continue getting extra from the person who gave them medication in the first place. SWIM hopes that SWIy is careful because SWIM has had some bad experiences with dependency to benzos and he doesn't want anyone else to have to go through that.
Be Safe and Good Luck

[missparkles]

Best to be honest with the doc.
After all, no medical professional will expect you to stop abruptly, they'll possibly prescribe a sliding schedule to detox you quite rapidly over 5-7 days.
They can't afford not to, you could have dangerous side effects from WD.
Usually UK doctors are very familiar with this, as lots of people seem to have problems with benzo's (especially diazepam).
It does seem to be one of the preferred highs for quite a few people, so try not to worry that the doctor will be too unforgiving. Remember, the doctor is there to help, not judge.
If he doesn't help maybe get another GP, which is not difficult.
Just ring your Family Practitioner Committee (FPC) and explain that you need a new doctor. They will allocate you one in a few days.
Sparkles.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice

[Synesthesiac]

Great. He said that he thinks that its nothing to do with the benzo's and its swims social anxiety thats the issue. He recommended swim to a narcotics annonymous meeting (not a chance!) or a counselling service called "its your choice" http://www.iyc.org.uk/

The UK charity, It's Your Choice, provides confidential and free information, support, advice and counselling for young people aged between 12 and 25 years

And he recommended that swim half the dose of diazepam, and that he had been down this road before and would not be prescribing swim anything. FFS. I'm either gonna have to lock myself in solitary confinement for a week or two so i'm in no social situations or just buy some more and benzo on. This sucks. A decent taper plan would have worked wonders. I stopped my CBT after four sessions as it was useless doin that while under the influence, all I want is to be clean again so I can resume that with a clear state of mind.

[missparkles]

Originally Posted by Synesthesiac

And he recommended that I half my dose of diazepam, and that he had been down this road before and would not be prescribing me anything. FFS. I'm either gonna have to lock myself in solitary confinement for a week or two so i'm in no social situations or just buy some more and benzo on. This sucks. A decent taper plan would have worked wonders. I stopped my CBT after four sessions as it was useless doin that while under the influence, all I want is to be clean again so I can resume that with a clear state of mind.

Ok, I'd ring the FPC, tell them your doctor isn't giving you the help you need and ask them to allocate you a new doc.
Explain you have an anxiety problem, and your doctor is unsympathetic.
They'll get you a doctor in a few days. They can't refuse to, you have a right to treatment. If you're not happy you can also make a complaint through the Primary Trust that pays your doctors wages.
When Sparkles moved to Lincolnshire, no doctor would touch her (with her drug history) she was allocated a new doctor every 3 months.
Eventually she found one who was sympathetic.
As you will.
Sparkles.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very useful advice

[Abrad]

Go and see another doctor. Halfing your dose is shitty advice, to say the least.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	This is the only one liner post I have ever given posative rep for, abrad is correct
	Good advice. Find another doctor that WILL put you on a taper plan

[BmmB]

A benzodiazepine is meant to be a drug to be used on the base of short treatments only unless specified by your doctor.

Since one of their uses it to treat anxiety, it is a drug which will easily create an addiction, since one is eager to take them with the thought of "If I don't take it, it will start all over again" and the part that I think is the worse is that your body creates resistance to them. Not only should your imaginary friend tell his parents but seek doctors advice immediately; this "challenge" if not succeeded will only let your imaginary friend with the typical benzodiazepines withdraw symptoms and that in SWYMs experience is much worse than what your imaginary friend is feeling now, trust me.

At least by going to the doctor he will prescribe you medication to help ease the process and you will have to trust me on this one; once you look for help and is taking the right treatment for whoever, things will get much better. Your imaginary friend will not stop taking Benzos from nigh to day, it's a slow process, but not a painful one if treated/medicated correctly. This might include antidepressants (which are very good for anxiety), certain kinds of anti-psychotics (don't be afraid of them; if your imaginary friend has problems sleeping this kind of medication is very sedating and does not tend to cause an addiction) and perhaps mood stabilizers ( SWYM has had very good experience with Oxcarbazepine and later on Lithium).

After your imaginary friend has been through this line of treatment, he will feel no need to take any Benzos again and you may ask why? Because your imaginary friend is taking something which is not the treatment he/she should be received. You will not find the right treatment here, this is just SWYMs experience and hopefully an insight for your imaginary friend to create courage and discuss these lines of treatment with an actual doctor. Remember the doctor is not there to judge you, it is not his role and since these are not illegal drugs you wouldn't have to worry at all about looking for help.

Trust me, SWYM used to take at least 10x times what you posted about this imaginary friend of yours, and was able to cope with the treatment very easily. But the most important thing is, do not interrupt the treatment, because the treatment will as well need a cooling-down period.

Oh and as mentioned above be honest with your doctor! You have a condition if the doctor you've seen says otherwise, he shouldn't even be allowed be practice medicine, go see another doctor.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice: this is serious condition, seek medical advice

[malsat]

SWIM found a couple of grams of sodium bromide a day extremely useful on the last leg of his own diazepam taper. It was unbelievable - bromide had no perceptible effects, but the emotional strain/irritability/tension/etc of the D WD's was totally gone. All he had to deal with was some physical discomfort but that's a doddle when not struggling with the emotional shit. YMMV.

malsat added 1 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

I would add that the bromide had no side effects and was discontinued without any problems.

[Synesthesiac]

Swim just procured some more diazepam to taper properly, the week that he ran out was absolute hell but thats over now and he's tapering using the directions from the ashton manual. The week when swim ran out means he's been able to start pretty low, just 5mg nightly does the job. And he'll be decreasing by 1mg each five days, and is planning on 5 days of 0.5mg to finish off.

[Grey Cardboard Man]

The doctor may not actually give you a benzodiazepine prescription; you may get an anti-seizure medicine instead or something like that combined with an anti-depressant. Doctors these days are rather unwilling to hand out benzodiazepines, at least those who're on the NHS.

I apologise if you're in another country; I assumed that you were in the UK and, in the UK, I've had to really push my doctor into a corner -- I was going in for treatment, he knew I was addicted to the benzo's and gear; a conclusion had to be reached lest I'd be cowering in a cupboard in fear of it all.

Hope you end up where you need to be, though. Spare no detail when explaining this to your GP because he's one of the few who can help you now. A small habit or a large habit can be dealt with using the Drug & Alcohol Services, who'll likely put you in touch with a local clinic where you'll be examined by a doctor with staff who specialize in addiction cases. )

Good luck.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good point about the GP being the best person to refer you, it's always best to be as honest as possible. If you're not,...

[missparkles]

Originally Posted by Grey Cardboard Man

Hope you end up where you need to be, though. Spare no detail when explaining this to your GP because he's one of the few who can help you now. A small habit or a large habit can be dealt with using the Drug & Alcohol Services, who'll likely put you in touch with a local clinic where you'll be examined by a doctor with staff who specialize in addiction cases. )

Good luck.

Excellent point about being honest with your GP, after all, if he doesn't know the full details, he's not gonna be able to give the appropriate help and support. Sparkles has always found that honesty, although it's sometimes difficult, can be the foundation of a trusting relationship with your GP. If you need help in the future, and you've always been totally honest, they'll be more likely to try to be as helpful, sometimes just going a little further than they have to, to help.
Sparkles found that her GP would see her for longer appointments, arrange referrals, and generally do anything he could if she said she was struggling. After all, he knew she'd been honest in the past, so he believed her now, when it mattered.
Just wanted to mention to Grey Cardboards Man to remember the rules on self incrimination. He wasn't addicted to benzo's, SWIM was.
Sparkles.

[MrG]

Social anxiety doesn't carry the stigma that it used to as more and more people admit to experiencing it to varying degrees at some point in their lives.

Try being honest with your friends and family, tell them about how it affects you and that you struggle at times to control the anxiety and would appreciate their understanding about the matter. Knowing that you always have an 'out' in a social situation, whereby you can always go off somewhere quiet or even leave a social event entirely, will go a long way towards combating the symptoms.

It's the feeling of being socially pressured into maintaining what you believe to be 'normal' behaviour that greatly exacerbates the condition.

You could then save the prescription meds for situations that don't have an 'out'.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good point about having to maintain normality actually making this problem worse.

[Synesthesiac]

Swim has taken all advice on board and his parents now know he is tapering and are being very supportive at the moment. I dont know how the WD's are so bad from just 9 months of use, swim must have done a lot more than he realized. Looking back probably 200 10mg Valium, 150 1mg Xanax, 80 2mg Clonazepam, 10 10mg Temazepam and 20mg of phenazepam.

Down to 4mg nightly now. Gets pretty bad by the afternoon with stiff muscles and the odd stiff aching heart feeling but its bearable now. Swim Will be off fully within a month hopefully

[missparkles]

You're doing so well, and the fact that you've been honest and it's and a positive effect makes it even better. Sometimes honesty does pay.
It's gonna get a little "iffy" when you do quit, but although it's uncomfortable, it does pass. So hang in there. PM Sparkles if you wanna shout or scream at someone.
Sparkles.

[Synesthesiac]

This is fucking terrible. So up and down. Swims never touching these again. He's had to use 7.5mg of zopiclone the last 4 days to sleep but has just got rid of the rest as he doesn't want to replace one addiction with another.

Synesthesiac added 3 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by malsat

SWIM found a couple of grams of sodium bromide a day extremely useful on the last leg of his own diazepam taper. It was unbelievable - bromide had no perceptible effects, but the emotional strain/irritability/tension/etc of the D WD's was totally gone. All he had to deal with was some physical discomfort but that's a doddle when not struggling with the emotional shit. YMMV.

What dosage should swim use for this? And without naming any sources is this the sort of thing available OTC in pharmacies?

[MrG]

He could try Neurontin (GABApentin), a 1200mg dose taken in the evening is known to help greatly reduce withdrawal from chronic G use, which is likely to be similar to benzo withdrawal issues, as well as giving the user a good night's sleep.

I know that zopiclone is not classed as a benzo, but both zopiclone and benzodiazepines act indiscriminately at the benzodiazepine binding site on α1, α2, α3 and α5 GABAA containing receptors as full agonists causing an enhancement of the actions of GABA to produce the therapeutic and adverse effects of zopiclone.

GABApentin has a low abuse potential so is unlikely to raise any eyebrows if requested at the doctor's and is also less likely to cause withdrawal issues.

[Synesthesiac]

Thanks for the advice I'll tell him about that and see what can be done.

The main issue that swim has is a terrible tension around his heart and upper back/shoulders. It seems to be worse when swim is anxious about something and worse the more time left after using benzos (or general CNS depressants). The muslces get really stiff and rigid and sometimes when really bad it feels like someones shoving a poker through his left shoulder blade. This is the main reason for swims insomnia and seems to be the main way the withdrawals are manifesting in him. Leads to palipitations too when severe. Which then leads to more anxiety. etc, etc.