Drug info - Kratom tolerance

[Nicaine]

Sorry for posting so many new Kratom-related threads, but I need help with this.

How long does it take to shed a tolerance to Kratom, and what's the best way to go about it? Stop completely, cut down drastically, cut down gradually?

Also, does the tolerance tend to come back more quickly after it's built up the first time?

Thanks for any replies.

[Nicaine]

P.S. fwiw it seems you can get physical withdrawals from kratom, but they're a joke... like a VERY mild opiate withdrawal, literally like a 2 codeine tablet/day habit or something. Mild diarrhea and some tiredness. Those people they studied in Thailand who had the bad withdrawal symptoms must have been taking massive doses.

[sands of time]

To cut down a kratom tolerance, each day can make a noticable difference. I was using 2 tablespoons of strong powder a day for 3 weeks straight, then I took a day break. I noticed the sedation after taking the next dose. I would recommend taking a 1 week break though to cut the tolerance significantly. In my experience, 2 weeks will return a tolerance almost completely.

As far as withdrawl symptoms... They exist, but they are no where near the wd's from opiates. I have noticed mild muscle aches and a runny nose, eyes after stopping after a long streak of use.

As for building a tolerance quicker... Probably, just because you are used to taking higher doses. When I started kratom, I used 1 tablespoon and got EXCELLENT effects. Even after taking a 2 week break, I can only achieve the original effects by taking 2 tablespoons.

[Nicaine]

Thanks, sands... good tips. I agree about withdrawals, they're noticeable but pretty weak compared to withdrawals from actual opiates. Still not particularly pleasant tho, especially the agitated sort of feeling that comes along with it. Always a good idea to limit use to a few times per week at most (my prob right now is I'm going through an emotionally rough time (death in the family) so I've been overdoing... only human I guess).

BTW, just an offhand/unrelated suggestion... I've found that the way to avoid nausea with commercial-grade powder is either to take it in capsules, or make tea and don't filter it (i.e. actually swig the powder with the tea)... either way, it seems you get enough alkaloids:tannins ratio or whatever so nausea isn't a problem. But if you make tea & filter out the powder, the amount required for a buzz makes nausea a real issue. Wish I'd figured that out before wasting 125 grams of the stuff.Edited by: Nicaine

[snapper]

SWIM finds that using a few times weekly seems to create no cravings or dependence. Tolerance is present but never seems to reach an unmanagable level. Withdrawals after 3 days of use and 4 off are non-existent (even after months of this routine). SWIM has heard that opiate withdrawals kick in soon after the effects wear off. For those that have experienced it, does withdrawal with kratom occur within a day or two of stopping ?

Snapper

[zenben]

opiate withdrawl symptoms (physical) almost always occur within 12 hours of the chemical losing its effects. Opiate withdrawls are common if using opiates continuously for 3 days or more and suddenly stopping. Using higher doses of opiates can speed this process significantly. Kratom, on the other hand, (from what I have heard) doesn't follow this pattern. While daily users do develop somewhat of a tolerance (I agree, it's not anything like opiate tolerance, with which some users have to double their dose to achieve the same effects) it seems that any negative effects associated with discontinuing daily kratom use are relatively mild and can usually be explained by other factors. For instance, SWIM tends to have difficulty sleeping on kratom, but dosing the following day will relieve SWIM of any fatigue. If SWIM does not dose on the third day, however, he will experience considerable fatigue and irritability, which could be simply the result of not getting enough sleep. SWIM has used kratom 3-5 days in a row on multiple ocasions with out any "true" withdrawl symptoms (such as flu-like symptoms, fever, etc). One thing SWIM has noticed, however, is an increased suceptability to actual illness after using kratom for 3 days in a row or more, especially those illnesses that include sore throat/cough symptoms (sinus infection, cold, laryingitis) which could indicate that continuous use of kratom negatively effects the immune system similarly to opiates. Any one else hear of experiencing sore throat/cough after multiple kratom days? This could be a coincidence, as SWIM uses kratom a lot and may just get sick sometimes like everyone else.

[snapper]

SWIM has had no bad side effects from even 5 days of continuous use a few times, and 3 days many times. Something of a sleepy hangover afterwards (sleep like the dead for 10-12hours), but no opiate withdrawals which SWIM is very familiar with in the past. No immunity issues of note, either, though sleep deprivation will certainly depress your immune system.

Snapper

[enquirewithin]

For instance, SWIM tends to have difficulty sleeping on kratom, .....

SWIM has found this as well, but others say Kratom makes them sleep well. For SWIM, it tends to kake his sleep disturbed and uneven, despite the fact that kratom makes him feel very relaxed.

[BumpBump]

swim has a massive tolerance level with kratom. He did 2g of UEI and 10g of premium the other night to get high

[OhCasey]

Anyone here with alot and wide range of Kratom experiences your advice is appreciated. Swim has been using kratom for about a month now and exclusively using kratom for 14 days. Before that he was using opiates. Swim wants to know if using 15 grams a day, about 1 teaspoon doses 4 times a day of plain Bali. I want to know is this alot to use to come off Opiates? Has anyone experienced Withdrawals from the Kratom from this much usage? Should Swim taper down from this dose? I've read that many all but eliminate withdrawals from kratom with a taper. Is it needed for such low doses though? Also i think swim might need to continue taking the kratom maybe a day or 2 or even a week to make sure all opiate withdrawals are gone but 2 weeks should be long enough for that. He doesnt feel any opiate withdrawal symptoms but hes used kratom before and gave himself 10 days and still felt physical wd's from the opiates when he stopped the kratom. Anyone with experience there? I'd like any info on the basics like how long it takes to build a dependency on kratom and if anyone feels a taper is needed. Thanks.

[rogermcnally]

Swim has found it was easy to develop a tolerance. He went from 2grams to 6 grams quickly. He was using the commercial extract. Swim found the withdrawl to be as described here, with listlessness and bad temper being the worst symtoms. Swim urges caution and also regrets the amount of money he spent on it.

[humdroid]

Dave had a few experiences of different krats. He never experienced an opiate habit though.
He has already used a few times this week, only 3g super powdered indo, but he feels like he is sensing a psychological dependance, the sort of ugly monster that lies at the base of all addictions/compulsions.

Good that the kratom has got swhim off the opiates, but not so sure about using it for all this time.

Minor withdrawals may be expereiencd as mentioned above.

Swim wants to know if using 15 grams a day, about 1 teaspoon doses 4 times a day of plain Bali is enough to come off opiates

It depends on the size of the opiate habit to start with, Dave would guess.
Dave says if swhim has been able to stave off the opiate cluck with the kratom alone, it appears to have done so, yes.

As for tapering kratom, Dave never heard of that. Dave is interested to hear though, as learning is never a bad thing

Dave hasnt experienced w/d's as he was merely sensing a dependency starting in himself, so is just playing at being a stoner today, so his ego gets to say, 'I made a day without kratom' A couple of zolpidem also found their way down Dave's neck about an hour ago.
Dave is a bit of a bugger, he chops and changes things, but when on nothng, he hurts himself. He dosent cut, but he cannot tell when an implosion of rage will land him with yet another cut head, black eye, broken nose, or fag burn.
Dave is a big softee, so much so, he is scared of himself. He wouldnt hurt a fly, though.
AD's and other head meds actually made it worse.

If Shwim does taper his dose, could he ask about to see if there is any naturals which have helped other kratom reducers/withdrawers?
Dave was surprised to hear the opiate withdrawals were still hanging around after the krat, but regrets he cannot explain why.
He is interested to know, though.

Sorry Dave or Di don't have the specific info you need, but pointers.
All Dave can say from my own experience, is do what he's doing now: Dave has used a lot more this week, sometimes daily, he sensed a psychological dependence.
His old weed, and Di's old speed addiction, showed them both, that the psychological dependence is the root forming for a bigger addiction.
In other words, use weekly/two weekly, as per above post, to prevent tolerance.

[OhCasey]

Swim thought hed follow up his other post about his withdrawal. He figured it out after some research and trial and error but he was coming off of 3-4 years of high dose opiate use and needed about 5 weeks to get rid of the opiate withdrawals and build a Kratom Dependence then he just tapered from the Kratom onto nothing alot easier than an opiate taper. In Swim experience the longer you stay on kratom up to 2 1/2 months the esier the Taper. He was using plain Bali and Tapered his opiate use to about 40-60 mgs of Hydrocodone a day before he switched to Kratom.

[humdroid]

Thanks for that feedback, says Dave and Di.
They were just interested, even though neither of them have opiate habits, they both have good friends who have.
Dave and Di managed to stay off kratom until today.
It wasn't that bad, but they are extra sensitive about getting habits, as both of them have had to peel themselves off speed and weed in the past and fear immensely the depression that seemed to come a few weeks after kickage of said habits.

[AceOvArts]

The most annoying this with Kratom WDs is RLS, it keeps SWIM awake and thus ruins the following days. SWIM is now day 1 CT after a weeks taper, things will start to get bumpy from now on for 3-4 days (SWIM hopes its only that length).
SWIM has been using daily for 2 years, use going up and down from enhanced varieties to UEI extract. SWIM has felt WDs before and they are no fun.

[humdroid]

Well best of, to SWIM for getting through the withdrawals.

[OhCasey]

Originally Posted by AceOvArts

The most annoying this with Kratom WDs is RLS, it keeps SWIM awake and thus ruins the following days. SWIM is now day 1 CT after a weeks taper, things will start to get bumpy from now on for 3-4 days (SWIM hopes its only that length).
SWIM has been using daily for 2 years, use going up and down from enhanced varieties to UEI extract. SWIM has felt WDs before and they are no fun.

Im really curious about how swiy did with the withdrawals and how long they lasted as well as how youre doing. Post an update if you have the time.