Effects - How to get back the magic from GHB?

[Gonthar]

SWIM abused GHB many times in the past. The withdrawals were progresively worse and worse.
SWIM took a break for three months, but now after a single dose SWIM couldn't sleep the whole night. No other symptoms where present however.
Is there a way to get back to the baseline? I've read somewhere that ibogaine resets the brain receptors and brings the body to the pre-addiction state. Could this substance work for GHB as well?

[runitsthepolice]

Can you describe the dosing schedule you took gonthar? Usually a single small dose keeps swim up as well. After the recreational dose, try using a slightly larger knockout dose before trying to go to bed, and then another one when swiy wakes up 3-4 hours later. Just make sure you stop in the morning, because sometimes you get that minor hangover and you think "hey a little more would be nice" but thats how people get addicted.

[Gonthar]

As I said SWIM hadn't take GHB for over three months.
SWIM took a small dose at 4:30 PM, and went to bed at 1 AM.
SWIM woke up at 2:45 AM and had trouble sleeping untile 8 AM.
SWIM doesn't want to use GHB for sleeping . This is how people get addicted.

At first(two years ago) SWIM took one dose per day.Everything was fine.
Then he took GHB twice each day and this was fine too.

At three doses each day SWIM had trouble sleeping at night so he had to take a dose before going to bed and another dose after 4-5 hours when he woke up.
And this is how people get addicted.

Now however, SWIM body's is very sensitive, so even a small dose managed to keep him awake the whole night after it's effects faded.

[malsat]

There's a couple pieces I need to say here, Gonthar. I hate to sound preachy, especially considering where I've been this past month, but I feel this needs to be said.

First, you mentioned that the withdrawals got progressively worse. This is what happens. The process is called kindling. It cannot be reversed, not with a long break and not with any chemicals. It's believed to be caused by neuroadaptation. It's famous for happening in alcohol addiction. I think it may happen with other drugs too, but it's most significant with GABA agonist addiction because if allowed to progress far enough it is responsible for chronic addicts having terrible seizures, excitotoxicity and delerium tremens which can kill.

This strengthened insomnia from a single use is a product of kindling, I imagine. Go through another withdrawal and next time the insomnia from a single use will be even worse, no doubt.

What you are talking about is addiction - not just acute addiction, but chronic addiction which is progressive. Those withdrawals will just get worse and worse each time. A person could be clean 20 years but if they relapse the withdrawals will pick up where they left off.

Second, why would SWIY consider going back to using that substance when they know they have problems with it? Doesn't SWIY remember all the other times they used it and lost control, only to find themselves physically dependant and facing yet another withdrawal? Doesn't SWIY remember sending me PM's looking for help just a few months ago? Doesn't SWIY remember how horrible it felt to be in withdrawals?

Continued addiction will only result in hospitalisation after hospitalisation, each withdrawal getting more and more severe, the delerium and psychosis becoming more and more horrific and terrifying - both for the addict and for anyone around them - the damage getting worse and worse, until, as they say in AA, a person reaches "insanity and death".

Please, for SWIY's own sake, just accept that SWIY cannot control their use of this drug and move on.

PS someone give me a kick if I've become too preachy. Not that I wasn't preachy to begin with, lol.

[Gonthar]

What do you mean that this process called kindling can't be reversed? Even after 20 years?
SWIM also became more sensitive to alot of stuff.He took antibiotics for a few days for an infection and they gave him palpitations and skipped heart-beats. This never happened before with antibiotics for SWIM!
Also, after he drank one day 200ml of vodka he couldn't sleep the whole night and his heart was pumping really hard and fast.
SWIM started going to college and is very nervous and anxious being around other people, talking to them,etc. He is so used to being high in social situations that he can't function sober around other people.
What can SWIM do?

[malsat]

I mean that kindling is a result of changes in the brain caused by repeated withdrawals. The brain becomes sensitised so that each withdrawal is worse than the last. This process doesn't operate in reverse. You were asking if there was a way to 'get back to baseline' so that SWIY's sensitivity to GHB withdrawal would go back to what it was in the past. I am saying that is extremely unlikely to happen. I've heard from numerous medical/addiction professionals as well as from chronic alcoholics in recovery that even after a long period of abstinence, a relapse into physical dependence results in withdrawals that are as severe if not more severe than the withdrawals that would have happened when last withdrawing. I gave 20 years as an example as I've heard one chronic alcoholic describe his addiction and refer to a withdrawal after 20 years of abstinence - this withdrawal was very severe. It was nothing like his first ever withdrawal.

Understand? Addiction's chronic and progressive. You can't go 'back to baseline'.

I don't want to overstep my boundaries or anything, but in talking about SWIY's situation, you seem to be describing an addiction. Continuing to want to use a drug even though it's doing you big harm is an indicator. Experiencing difficult symptoms such as anxiety and depression after withdrawing and then wanting to use again to treat those symptoms even though they were caused or exacerbated by using in the first place is another indicator.

Try going to a doctor or psychiatrist or a college counsellor and explaining the situation to them. Even look around online, you can find websites that help people deal with anxiety and support them. But trust me on this, don't go back to G and don't end up looking for a chemical to treat that anxiety. If the anxiety's just a result of having been dependent on drugs then it will fade with time as your body&brain settle down. If it's genuine anxiety then seeing a counsellor or psychiatrist will work wonders.

Good luck.
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More on kindling:
(From wiki
"Kindling is the phenomenon where repeated alcohol detoxifications leads to an increased severity of the withdrawal syndrome. For example binge drinkers may initially experience no withdrawal symptoms but with each period of resumption of drinking followed by abstinence their withdrawal symptoms intensify in severity and may eventually result in full blown delerium tremens with convulsive seizures. Alcoholics who experience seizures during hospital detoxification have been found to be much more likely to have had experienced more previous detoxifications from alcohol than alcoholics who did not have seizures and are more likely to have a more medically complicated alcohol withdrawal syndrome. Kindling can cause complications and may increase the risk of relapse, alcohol related brain damage and cognitive deficits. Chronic alcohol misuse and kindling via multiple alcohol withdrawals may lead to permanent alterations in the GABA<AA receptors. The mechanism behind kindling is sensitisation of some neuronal systems and desensitisation of other neuronal systems which leads to increasingly gross neurochemical imbalances. This in turn leads to more profound withdrawal symptoms including anxiety, convulsions and neurotoxicity."

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...22-1/25-34.pdf

[Gonthar]

Yeah, but why when I drank alcohol I experienced the same withdrawal effects????
Alcohol is supposed to act on the GABA-A receptors and GHB on the GABA-B.