Treatment - The Cocaine Vaccine

[GloomyZombi]

So apparently there is a new vaccine out there that causes the body to produce antibodies that cause the user to just not get high. So basically take as much as you want but it's getting you nowhere.
This seems like total bullshit to me; made by people who have no idea what addiction is like. Imagine going through withdrawals and no matter what you do you're just stuck with them until they are over. I would feel so helpless.
anyone else?
original report for those interested. http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/07/cocaine.vaccine/

Reputation Comments on this post:

good starter topic.

[chillinwill]

Or see 'Vaccine' may block cocaine effects

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent link and awesome advice as always.

[sirmoonie]

Originally Posted by GloomyZombi

So apparently there is a new vaccine out there that causes the body to produce antibodies that cause the user to just not get high. So basically take as much as you want but it's getting you nowhere.
This seems like total bullshit to me; made by people who have no idea what addiction is like. Imagine going through withdrawals and no matter what you do you're just stuck with them until they are over. I would feel so helpless.
anyone else?
original report for those interested. http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/07/cocaine.vaccine/

You have no idea what you are talking about - "made by people who have no idea what addiction is like" - like if we just turned the billion dollar pharamceutical company labs and trials over to coke addicts, we'd get the ultimate anti-addiction drug.

The vaccine was made by people with great understanding of chemistry, physics, and the human body, who spent years and billions of dollars researching and testing how cocaine works in the body. It's one important step, in what will be many important steps, in one day finding a a cure for various addictions. I'll bet none of the people that the initial and limited trials benefited are calling it total bullshit.

Your point about withdrawals made no sense at all either. At least to me and/or SWIM it didn't. Your suggested treatment for addiction and withdrawal is to make sure you can still get high? Anyway, in SWIM's experience, cocaine addiction is completely in your head, more than any other drug. If you can get past the jonesing/fiending/craving, you have hugely improved chances of staying away from it, and this vaccine appears to address just that: "Kosten told CNN that 75 per cent of subjects had high enough antibody levels to block one or two doses of cocaine, and that should be enough to prevent occasional lapses leading back to addiction."

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good points made, turning coke vaccine production over to coke addicts being one of them.

[GloomyZombi]

I wasn't saying that crackheads would make a better vaccine. I was saying that though the vaccine may be effective at what it does (it's not), but what it does make dealing with quitting harder because of the feeling of helplessness when it comes to stopping the withdrawals. I don't know about you but I would find it rather comforting while I was dopesick that I could make the pain go away. The bullshit came from a little foresight - what do you think this is going to be used for in the future? Is it really always going to be the choice of the user to take it or not? I doubt it.
and on that note in the future I suggest not putting words in other peoples mouths. (ike if we just turned the billion dollar pharamceutical company labs and trials over to coke addicts, we'd get the ultimate anti-addiction drug.) I didn't even hint at anything like that. the cure is wrong is what I was getting at.

[sirmoonie]

Originally Posted by GloomyZombi

the cure is wrong is what I was getting at.

That is not how medical research in this, or any area, works. They don't dream up a treatment with an itemized list of characteristics, or lack of characteristics, and then build the chemistry around that. It's not architecture. They notice or hypothesize a particular effect and start from there towards enhancing it. If it's not perfect, which it rarely is, they can work on side effects, enhanced success rates, etc. as time progresses.

And this is a cocaine vaccine we're talking about. I've never heard "dopesick" or any similar term or condition used in conjunction with quitting cocaine. In any case, even if that were to exist, nothing says you can't use other drugs that to alleviate withdrawal symptoms. And even if there weren't any, the fact that someone may experience withdrawal is certainly no reason not to utilize a treatment designed to help a user quit.

[GloomyZombi]

I wasn't saying that crackheads would make a better vaccine. I was saying that though the vaccine may be effective at what it does (it's not), but what it does make dealing with quitting harder because of the feeling of helplessness when it comes to stopping the withdrawals. I don't know about you but I would find it rather comforting while I was dopesick that I could make the pain go away. The bullshit came from a little foresight - what do you think this is going to be used for in the future? Is it really always going to be the choice of the user to take it or not? I doubt it.
and on that note in the future I suggest not putting words in other peoples mouths. (ike if we just turned the billion dollar pharamceutical company labs and trials over to coke addicts, we'd get the ultimate anti-addiction drug.) I didn't even hint at anything like that. the cure is wrong is what I was getting at.

[guntroll]

As long as they don't go forcing this down kids throats so they won't go do coke, I think it's an excellant idea. Imagine how much easier it would be for someone that is desperate to quit coke to actually quit when, even if they did use, they wouldn't get high.

guntroll added 7 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by GloomyZombi

I wasn't saying that crackheads would make a better vaccine. I was saying that though the vaccine may be effective at what it does (it's not), but what it does make dealing with quitting harder because of the feeling of helplessness when it comes to stopping the withdrawals. I don't know about you but I would find it rather comforting while I was dopesick that I could make the pain go away.

I don't think the world of psychology would agree with that. Most addicts do relapse, the reason is because they can just go out and make themselves feel better and out of the temporary discomfort.

As long as they don't start handing this out to kids to get them to not do coke, I think it's an excellant idea.

[jeepack]

I don't think it is necessary to have this vaccine if you think you could try quitting on your own. But I remember hearing about this once and I thought to myself "this makes absolute perfect sens and is an awsome discovery"

Basically it is like a pedophile getting castrated. Same thing, problem solved, and I'm not basing this on research, only my logic so I could be wrong, but I think that if you manage to block out the effects, you probably won't have any withdrawls (maybe you'll feel sick or something), but you can't get a downer if you never went up.

jeepack added 4 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

In regards to those who think that getting Hi on cocaine is a way to get rid of cocaine withdrawl. This is the exact mentality of an addict. How exactly do you beleive doing cocaine would get rid of cocaine withdrawl, you'll have to explain that one... In theory, that would be correct if you were to do it in a perpetual fashion, non-stop untill you die, thus an addict, but in practice, it only delays the withdrawl and makes the next coming withdrawl more painful than the first you avoided... Bravo!

jeepack added 1 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

...sorry if maybe I didn't understand you correctly...

again you fear being helpless in regards to not being able to get hi again? How about helpless in not being able to stop getting hi? Under your logic, we should give a cocaine hit to everyone in cocaine rehab?!

[bindegal]

Let me put it this way. I have a 15 year old coke monkey on my back, and I would be happy for a vaccine like this. I do not even like how coke make me feel, yet I shoot it again and again and.......And it make me feel like a fool, as a conditioned animals who salivate whenever the bell rings.

My main concern, if you start forcing children or adults, for that matter, to take the vaccine, otherwise they can not enter the school or get that job! And I am afraid that this is how it will end up. As I see it, there is not much you can do when the technology first is here!

The temptation is too great! Drug users are an unpopular minority, politicians will score votes on pretending to control us!

And!.. there are no physical withdrawal symptoms with coke.

[vita-disgrazia]

Forced vaccination? Is this a serious obhection? I'm new here and don't want to over step my newbie status but there are plenty of substances that alter the bodies ability to process certain things that alternate our normal functions . Naltrexone being one. I have yet to see a employment contract req. People to take anything like that.

Anything that gets us closer to understanding the brain and addiction imo is a step forward.

vita-disgrazia added 0 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

Forced vaccination? Is this a serious obhection? I'm new here and don't want to over step my newbie status but there are plenty of substances that alter the bodies ability to process certain things that alternate our normal functions . Naltrexone being one. I have yet to see a employment contract req. People to take anything like that.

Anything that gets us closer to understanding the brain and addiction imo is a step forward.

[sirmoonie]

Originally Posted by vita-disgrazia

Forced vaccination? Is this a serious objection?

If you stick around, you will not believe some of the logic, reasoning, "facts" and rationale that get applied around here. You'd almost think it was a board full of drug users or something.

[vita-disgrazia]

Thanks for the heads up.

I'm well aware of how the chemistry of the brain warps and changes logic and thought patterns I guess I was just caught off guard.

I guess I assumed even addicts would apperciate the science that may help them or fellow addicts later.

IDK but I think its promising.

And since addiction relieving pills and programs currently aren't "forced" I just thought the objection was sort of outta left field.

[Gifted]

Lmao @ Gloomy, you're saying that you should be able to get little re-lapses? If you have an addiction problem, it's time to man up and quit. I've quit any problem I've had cold-turkey and I always stay away. This seem's very interesting indeed, and well designed. If I heard some coke-head crying about how he couldn't get another hit to help with quitting...I'd tell him to stfu.

[sirmoonie]

Originally Posted by Gifted

Lmao @ Gloomy, you're saying that you should be able to get little re-lapses? If you have an addiction problem, it's time to man up and quit. I've quit any problem I've had cold-turkey and I always stay away. This seem's very interesting indeed, and well designed. If I heard some coke-head crying about how he couldn't get another hit to help with quitting...I'd tell him to stfu.

Cold-turk can be taboo around here. Tapering drugs is all the rage these days. Win-win situation - you can get high and tell yourself you're quitting, all at the same time.

[beena]

Originally Posted by GloomyZombi

So apparently there is a new vaccine out there that causes the body to produce antibodies that cause the user to just not get high. So basically take as much as you want but it's getting you nowhere.
This seems like total bullshit to me; made by people who have no idea what addiction is like. Imagine going through withdrawals and no matter what you do you're just stuck with them until they are over. I would feel so helpless.
anyone else?
original report for those interested. http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/07/cocaine.vaccine/

Well firstly there is no physical withdrawal that SWIM knows of caused by cocaine so SWIY's thought about people taking this vaccine and suffering immensely as a result is certainly flawed. SWIM's been addicted to crack-cocaine for the best part of a decade now and many times during that time she's heard rumours of a new 'wonderdrug' or antidote to cocaine that will help addicts to stop using, unfortunately these things never seem to materialise. Maybe this time it's really gonna happen (SWIM's not gonna hold her breath though ...), but SWIY is certainly right in thinking that a lot of the people who are involved in these addiction-busting problems often don't seem to really understand the full nature of addiction themselves. SWIM doesn't blame them though - addiction is a very complex psychological issue.
The idea behind these medicaments is that by stopping the drug reaching the receptors in the brain that cause pleasure or euphoria (the 'high' a cocaine user experiences), the addict will quickly learn that there is no longer any point taking the drug - they are no longer getting high - and so, not wanting to chuck their money down the drain, they will stop using.
This is all well and good in theory but SWIM wonders just how many times it would take someone like her (a long-term user for whom taking drugs really has become a 'habit'), to learn their lesson! SWIM can quite easily see herself throwing hundreds of pounds away just testing the vaccine to see if there's a point at which it stops working (SWIM mean does it really block all the cocaine she takes getting through or is there a limit to how much it can actually block).
This may sound silly, given that SWIM would be taking the vaccine voluntarily because she wants to stop using but addiction is not a rational thing and when those cravings begin SWIM will go to some pretty desperate lengths to get her fix.
There is already a medicine available in tablet form that does exactly what SWI-gloomy_zombi has outlined but for alcohol. It is called antibuse and it prevents the user from getting drunk. The only problem is that if the user decides that they're gonna have a drink anyway the medicine can make them seriously ill. At first it triggers vomiting. The makers of the drug expect that this will be enough to stop the user going any further and drinking any more. Again, I think they underestimate the power of addiction: a friend of SWIM's is an alcoholic and after 20 years of being chained to the bottle he decided enough was enough and he wanted to stop. So, he went to his doctor who put him on antibuse. He was told that under no circumstances should he drink alcohol because it would make him very, very sick. This worked for the first week - he daren't touch the bottle, but other than popping a pill every morning (the antibuse), SWIM's friend was given no other help to deal with his cravings for alcohol. After about a week had gone past he couldn't take it any longer and he went down the off-license and bought 3 litres of cider. Apparently as soon as the alcohol touched his lips they started burning but he perservered! He thought he would drink himself through the vomiting and be alright (this is the mentality of a drug addict). His girlfriend found him on the floor about two or three hours later, he was purple and swollen in the face and making gurgling and spluttering noises. He said after him that the alcohol burnt at first and then it seemed to choke him. His face and neck had swollen up too. It was fortunate that his girlfriend had gone around to see him when she did - she called an ambulance for him and he was taken to hospital. A couple of hours after he stopped drinking he was ok again though, but it was a frightening experience. What's more frightening for me though is how addiction takes over and makes a person behave.
Another story SWIM has heard of many times about people on antibuse is how they've planned a day of drinking and purposely stopped taking their medication for a couple of days to allow this. Of course this medication is designed to be taken continuously and for it to ever really work an addict must really want it and stick to it: but then this is what is required whichever way you look at it and whichever method you chose to use to combat addiction ...
SWIM thinks what's really important, if this new drug really does materialise is that it's not seen as a panacea - a universal remedy for all - rather that it's just one part of an armoury of weapons available to combat addiction and that they're all readily available to use. What works for one person isn't necessarily right for the next person who comes along. Also, SWIM strongly believes that counselling and support should be there to back up medicinal 'solutions' to addiction problems. Most people who take drugs regularly to the point of it becoming a real problem have self-esteem issues and often poor self-confidence. Many use drugs to self-medicate or as an emotional crutch, so giving them just yet another pill to pop isn't really addressing the bigger questions of why they use drugs and putting right what went wrong in the first place to get them to a place where they felt they had to use alcohol, cocaine, heroin or whatever else it might be, to get them through the day.

[adzket]

this was originaly discused in november 2008, hear:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...959#post498959