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  #76  
Old 11-10-2009, 00:00
EscapeDummy EscapeDummy is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by honourableone View Post
New information has been received:

It seems as though the product information for 2C-B-FLY has been removed from the Haupt-RC website. As of now, it still remains in the product list and the news section of the site (which details the date that this product went on sale). A screenshot has been sent in to prevent all evidence of 2C-B-FLY being sold by Haupt-RC getting erased.

They aren't posting a warning of its danger? They aren't trying to cover this up, are they? Good job on the detective work.
  #77  
Old 11-10-2009, 01:53
Phenoxide Phenoxide is nu online
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Thanks for the update honorableone. Out of interest does anyone know if Haupt also sold any FLY amphetamines (e.g. bromo-dragonFLY, bromo-FLY etc.)? To me it seems that mislabelling of one of those, or an impure synth that contained them is the most likely explanation for the reports that've come in. It'd stand to reason that if Haupt sold FLY amphetamines that his supplier also makes them and could easily have mislabelled a batch.

EscapeDummy, I share your concerns about a seeming lack of effort from all concerned to raise the alarm. You'd hope that someone has access to records of who Haupt shipped to in those few days and has sent out warnings. Perhaps the most worrying thing is that we do not know how big this batch was and who besides Haupt may be distributing it. It's reassuring to see that this board and Erowid are at least trying to get the word out there.

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Interesting speculation. Please keep up this standard of posting. :)
  #78  
Old 11-10-2009, 02:53
robertone robertone is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Did Haupt RC synthesize their RC's themself or did they simply archieved it from a larger producer? If it came from an other producer it's likely that this producer supplied other RC sellers as well, by which more buyers of RC's are in danger. Actually, to Swim's opinion, RC's suppliers should add an copy of the certificate of analysis of the proper batch at each sold quantity!

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great suggestion
A CoA with orders would be great, (Y)
  #79  
Old 11-10-2009, 02:56
DarkDead DarkDead is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide View Post
Out of interest does anyone know if Haupt also sold any FLY amphetamines (e.g. bromo-dragonFLY, bromo-FLY etc.)? To me it seems that mislabelling of one of those, or an impure synth that contained them is the most likely explanation for the reports that've come in. It'd stand to reason that if Haupt sold FLY amphetamines that his supplier also makes them and could easily have mislabelled a batch
Although SWIM never ordered anything from Haupt-RC he has been checking their product list regularly during the last year. Since then this was the first FLY compound they had for sale.
Unfortunately this adds nothing.

Searching through the Chinese labs product lists the only FLY compound I found was precisely 2C-B-FLY (sold by just one lab). However they could be producing other FLYs for stock and haven't put them for sale yet. This seems reasonable: after acquiring the reagents for 2C-B-FLY and being the other synthesis similar they might proceed to them thus maximizing their profits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergoamide View Post
If you look at my Bromo-dragonfly synthesis page it also shows how the synthesis of 2c-b-fly can be done by subst. nitromethane for nitroethane. [...]
Has anyone tried to contact the Chinese labs?
  #80  
Old 11-10-2009, 03:15
Terrapinzflyer Terrapinzflyer is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

@Honourarlbeone - do you know (or does swiy know) if the fly info that was removed happened after the death or is it possible he removed it when he realized something might be wrong with the batch?
  #81  
Old 11-10-2009, 03:23
Phenoxide Phenoxide is nu online
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

robertone, nearly all vendors including Haupt are wholesalers. All his chemicals were synthesized by a lab in China. Haupt did not perform any wet chemistry of his own to quality control batches he recieved (aside from consuming them it'd seem). No doubt the suppliers sent him some certificate claiming it to be 99% pure, but such guarantees are not worth the paper they are written on if the suppliers were cutting corners. I also imagine there may have been considerable communication issues there; danish to mandarin, presumably via english could easily lead to misinterpretation somewhere along the line.

My dog's best friend recently contacted another widely respected vendor to get their take on what happened. Apparently they had previously had contact with the lab that supplied Haupt, which was in their own words 'clandestine'. They opted not to use them. They tried to contact the lab again after this happened but have had no response. One can only hope that the supplier's reputation amongst the vendors will be shot after this and they'll be blackballed out of existence.
  #82  
Old 11-10-2009, 03:42
UberDouche UberDouche is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. The words 'your life may be in danger' really is an eye-catcher, and rightly so.
  #83  
Old 11-10-2009, 03:52
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

That label looks the same as the label SWIM got from a vendor that sent SWIM some fake Lucigenol.

swim feels lucky he just got inactive product and is still alive.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Source discussion. Haupt is one thing but not another source
Probably should edit out that source name.

Last edited by Alfa; 11-10-2009 at 11:54. Reason: discussion of active vendors is not allowed.
  #84  
Old 11-10-2009, 04:12
High Flyer High Flyer is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Thanks for the heads up Alfa. This could save lives.
  #85  
Old 11-10-2009, 04:31
EscapeDummy EscapeDummy is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

How are all the lab companies in China? Surely the Chinese government isn't too keen on the whole 'psychedelic chemicals' thing...
  #86  
Old 11-10-2009, 04:45
chillinwill chillinwill is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Most of this is already posted in this thread but here is Erowid's update:

Quote:
Originally Posted by erowid
Tainted or mislabeled 2C-B-Fly may have contributed to two deaths in early October 2009. Additional hospitalizations have been reported but not yet confirmed. Because of the immediate nature of this issue, please be sure to pass this information to anyone who may come into contact with 2C-B-Fly.

On death was in Denmark the other in California. Both deaths followed use of purported 2C-B-Fly aquired from Haupt-RC. The death in Denmark was related to a batch labeled "b1" on the packaging but we do not yet know whether the same batch was involved in California.

Based on details about these deaths, especially dosage and duration, Erowid speculates that this material may be bromo-dragonfly which is more potent and has a longer duration. More information coming soon...

Death in California
On October 3, 2009, Brian Sullivan died in California after ingesting 9 mg of purported 2C-B-Fly. His brother John and John's girlfriend Lindsey were also present and also ingested the same material, John 10 mg and Linsey 4 mg. Brian was 18 years old and weighed 175 lbs. He was not on any medication that his family was aware of although he did have preexisting health problems. According to his brother,
"He had multiple major health problems, including a serious stomach ailment, heart murmur, chronic vomiting and really bad headaches/migraines (probably stress related), many ulcers, a connective tissue disease that can affect internal organs (he also had stopped taking his medication for this), and probable severe liver and possible kidney damage from a suicide attempt with Tylenol and Alieve, and he also may have had additional damage for those and or other organs from using what now appears to have been large amounts of recreational drugs and from whatever taints and cuts were present in them."
Brian begain having a difficult trip at two hours after ingestion. At three and a half hours after ingestion he began having what appeared to be seizures but could have been strokes or a heart attack, or a combination of of those. 911 was called and CPR was performed. He died approximately four hours after ingestion.

John, who had taken 10 mg, experienced "intense gastrointestinal disturbances" and was still experiencing effects at 30 hours after ingestion. He and Lindsey both reported extremely strong experiences and were both taken to the hospital in restraints after the paramedics/police arrived.

The material was ordered from Haupt-RC on October 1st and was received on October 3rd. It has not yet been determined what batch number was identified on the material.

This information has been provided to Erowid by another brother who was present during the event.
And quote from other forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by other forum
Somehow, I'm still here.

Right now approx. +15:30 from ingestion of unknown quantity.

Was just discharged after 8 hrs. of observation in the E.R.

All they could do was monitor my vitals and pump me up with some valium.

Don't know why I'm still here, but I am. It sure feels like I shouldn't be.

Although, I'm a bit afraid to go to sleep...what do u guys think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by other forum
I don't know if high is the right way to put it...not right would be more accurate. Like, I'm not tripping, but I definitely still feel like I have poison inside of me.

I didn't want to leave the hospital but they made me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by other forum
Disorientation, Massive cold sweating, Extreme tachycardia, blood pressure skyrocketing...

if I wake up alive in the morning, I am flushing every rc I own, and will never have been happier to do so
Quote:
Originally Posted by other forum
my dose was unknown. I weighed out the bag and then lipped the remaining residue on the scale tray. I suppose it could have been anywhere from 1-10 mg
Quote:
Originally Posted by other forum
so...part of me wants to stay awake and part of me realllly wants to sleep. but i don't know what to do...


and, no, i have no antipsychotics...my pills at the moment include aspirin and vicodin and nothing else


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thank you for the summary; very touching

Last edited by chillinwill; 11-10-2009 at 04:53.
  #87  
Old 11-10-2009, 11:09
Benga Benga is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkDead View Post
Although SWIM never ordered anything from Haupt-RC he has been checking their product list regularly during the last year. Since then this was the first FLY compound they had for sale.
Unfortunately this adds nothing.

Searching through the Chinese labs product lists the only FLY compound I found was precisely 2C-B-FLY (sold by just one lab). However they could be producing other FLYs for stock and haven't put them for sale yet. This seems reasonable: after acquiring the reagents for 2C-B-FLY and being the other synthesis similar they might proceed to them thus maximizing their profits.

Has anyone tried to contact the Chinese labs?
word has it that he did contact the lab for a dimethocaine issue- if this is the same lab- when he was informed of such an issue existing.
But he admittedly had no equipements (or knowledge) to run any tests himself and trusted the chemists to "do their job"
he was probably totally unaware of issues for the "2C-B-FLY", and sold it before / without any prior testing (which in this situation would have been a bio-assay....)

his first testing run for the 2C-B-fly was lethal, but he had apparently sold / distributed some quantities before it happened.

Last edited by Benga; 11-10-2009 at 11:21.
  #88  
Old 11-10-2009, 13:37
Alfa Alfa is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

I posted this update in the OP:
Quote:
Update:
Haupt-RC has added 2C-B-FLY as a new product to its assortment on Monday September 28th and the operator of the company died from consuming it on Saturday October 3rd. Between those dates Haupt-RC has sent out an unknown number of orders around the world.

Some of Haupt-RC's customers have been warned and thereby may have been saved from fatal ingestion. Unfortunately others have not been reached in time and have been hospitalised and died.

Unconfirmed sources have stated that this 2C-B-FLY was sourced from a Chinese producer. This Chinese producer may be selling to other Research Chemical vendors.

Related to this thread:
Tainted 2C-B-FLY: a fatal trip in San Jose, Cali
Potential things that could wrong with the synthesis of 2c-b-fly
  #89  
Old 11-10-2009, 13:56
honourableone Gold member honourableone is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapinzflyer View Post
@Honourarlbeone - do you know (or does swiy know) if the fly info that was removed happened after the death or is it possible he removed it when he realized something might be wrong with the batch?
I don't know for sure, but it seems as though the information was removed after the death. It seems very unlikely that the vendor himself would have changed it, because by the time he realized something was wrong it would have been too late for him. To clarify what has been removed, apparently if 2C-B-FLY is clicked on in the product list, a blank page appears stating "Product information not found.". This doesn't happen with any other products, and wasn't the case previously.
  #90  
Old 11-10-2009, 15:17
acer0169 acer0169 is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa View Post
Some of Haupt-RC's customers have been warned and thereby may have been saved from fatal ingestion. Unfortunately others have not been reached in time and have been hospitalised and died.
Does this mean others have actually died from this? I hadn't heard of any other instance where people had died..

If so, I hope to god word gets out about this as quickly as it can. I'm just glad there are forums such as DF because without this SWIM would have a much lesser knowledge about research chemicals and may have been one of the unlucky ones (as SWIM is very interested in trying new things as they are released).

Thank you for the information Alfa.
  #91  
Old 11-10-2009, 15:22
Benga Benga is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by acer0169 View Post
Does this mean others have actually died from this? I hadn't heard of any other instance where people had died..
.
in this very thread, especially around post #62
and here :
Tainted 2C-B-FLY: a fatal trip in San Jose, Cali
  #92  
Old 11-10-2009, 15:27
acer0169 acer0169 is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benga View Post
in this very thread, especially around post #62
and here :
Tainted 2C-B-FLY: a fatal trip in San Jose, Cali
Thank you Benga,

I had missed the post on this thread and hadn't seen the other one you've linked me to.

I'm very sorry to hear of peoples losses, my heart goes out to those involved.
  #93  
Old 11-10-2009, 15:43
chillinwill chillinwill is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Update from the poster who one of their friends took 8mg and the other two <1mg

Quote:
Originally Posted by other forum
Both of my frieds who where hospitalized still suffer from that night.

One of them has a strong disturbance of equilibrium. He thinks the stuff has damaged something in his brain. IŽll take him here for a few days to take care of him (and keep him sober) and bring him to a neurologist tomorrow.

He drank a lot of alkohol since he is back from hospital and mixed it with weed and amphetamines.. big mistake.

Fuck. I hope heŽll be allright again.
  #94  
Old 11-10-2009, 16:57
mrglue mrglue is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

anyone know if their A-MT is trustable ?

thanks
  #95  
Old 11-10-2009, 16:59
Abrad Abrad is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

I would urge caution with any product received from this company, since they likely all originated in the same lab.
  #96  
Old 11-10-2009, 19:08
chrisn Gold member chrisn is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

I heard that their aMT was NOT as strong as aMT should be. While I never saw anything indicating it was dangerous, I still would not recommend eating anything from this company.

Last edited by chrisn; 11-10-2009 at 20:42. Reason: I meant to say the aMT was weak, but somehow posted it was normal. oops
  #97  
Old 11-10-2009, 19:18
honourableone Gold member honourableone is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

Someone has reported that they did an allergy test on the AMT before they heard the news of the 2C-B-FLY. They worked their way up to a (very) mildly noticeable dose (psychoactively speaking) and reported no problems. Though yes, be incredibly suspicious of anything from this vendor, especially untill we have confirmed the ins and outs of this incident.
  #98  
Old 11-10-2009, 19:31
Phenoxide Phenoxide is nu online
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

It should be OK mrglue, as that a-MT has been in circulation for some time with no reported disasters. That said anyone intending to consume other chemicals purchased from Haupt should probably hold fire until it's known if this was a mislabelling or a bad synth. If it's the former then it's probably safe to assume it's an isolated incident and other chemicals are OK, but if it turns out that it was a botched synth then I wouldn't trust any of their products to be pure and safe.


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Good post with some valid points!
  #99  
Old 11-10-2009, 22:05
Benga Benga is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

someone close had a weird (chemical) reaction with one batch of Haupt's dimethocaine. the product just broke down while still in the original shipping plastic bag, and hadn't been used yet.
clumped up, hard, oily, extremely oily.
turned out rather ineffective, with little to none numbing effect but not directly toxic (after very gradual bioassays)- of course this means little.

the vendor was contacted, and he reportedly contacted the lab about this and was "assured 99% purity". end of the story, one rather unhappy and worried customer. this was a couple of days before the incident which caused his death

2 other dimethocaine batches sampled were apparently ok.

will inquire about this strange (it was advertised as "a new batch" of "higher purity") batch's number, but not sure if this is any help, as one of the three batches had the batch number crossed and re-written with a pen, which seems to indicate a lack of consistency.

people should be careful with all chemicals coming from this now deceased vendor as he clearly had little control on what he sold, and was using a supposedly dodgy supplier.

b

Last edited by Benga; 11-10-2009 at 22:27.
  #100  
Old 12-10-2009, 00:45
Synesthesiac Synesthesiac is offline
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Re: If you have ordered 2C-B-fly from Haupt-RC, then your life may be in danger

I think:

A) It was mislabelled, and was infact a chemical active at submilligram dosages. 18mg of this would be over 20x the normal dosage, and a very potent overdose.
B) It was a bad synth, and a very dangerous chemical was created as a by-product.
C) It was cut with something that was equally as toxic. Although it may have been cut on purpose, the high toxicity of what it was cut with was clearly a huge mistake.
D) The person had an unluckly allergic reaction to it (far less likely due to other accounts emerging now)
E) The person who died had a pre-existing health problem that was too much to handle on the drug (again, very ulikely now due to other similar reports emerging)

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2c-b-fly, 2c-b-fly death, contaminated 2c-b-fly, drug, haupt-rc, ld50, rc death, research chemical death

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