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  #1  
Old 05-10-2009, 10:03
Alfa Alfa is offline
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An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

So far I have read about the following 'bath salt' products being marketed as cocaine and meth replacements:
  • snow blow
  • snow
  • blow
  • Ivory Wave now rebranded as Vanilla Sky
  • snowberry
  • charge+
  • blowout
  • white
  • hurricane charlie
  • white gold
  • dusted
  • F1
  • Toot
  • Star Dust
  • Space Dust
  • Raz
  • Shake & Vac



Horror stories about mephedrone and Ivory Wave are piling up. Please see the Mephedrone forum, and check threads about ivory wave.

Did I miss any 'bath salts' or similar snuff products?

* Not all threads about these products have been properly tagged. Please help tag all threads about these products, with the product name.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg f1.jpg (12.3 KB, 4261 views)
File Type: jpg raz-hs008_1.jpg (10.8 KB, 4270 views)
File Type: jpg spacedust.jpg (6.9 KB, 4261 views)
File Type: jpg star_dust_1g-hs005_1.jpg (14.8 KB, 4259 views)
File Type: jpg toot.jpg (8.5 KB, 4260 views)
File Type: gif shake-n-vac.gif (15.0 KB, 4264 views)

Last edited by Terrapinzflyer; 19-03-2010 at 07:30. Reason: prefix
  #2  
Old 05-10-2009, 13:00
Benga Benga is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

that's a pretty complete list.

as far as we know, the ingredients reported (no analysis has been done on any of these products) to be / have been used in the manufacture of the ( exclusively Irish ?) bathsalts, and "snuffs" :

4-methylmethcathinone/ 4MMC / Mephedrone : the ideal suspect due to the current mephedrone explosion, could be in a lot of things
4-fluoromethcathinone /4-FMC/ Flephedrone - for Charge +
3-fluoromethcathinone /3-FMC

β-CFT, WIN-35,428/ (-)-2-β-Carbomethoxy-3-β-(4-fluorophenyl)tropane : one "informed" claim as the active ingredient for Ivory wave / vanilla sky - unconfirmed to this day, expensive and complex synth ---- now retracted and identifying the subste as M.D.P.V.

other possible candidates mentioned, for other actual "legal highs" as well :

M.D.P.V. (cut, possibly used in quite a few products ivory wave & vanilla skies)

)Desoxypipradrol / 2-diphenylmethylpiperidine (2-DPMP)

for pills
4-Fluoromethamphetamine /4-FMA
4-FA



other betaketone / cathinone derivates :

BK-PMMA /4-Methoxymethcathinone / methedrone
BK-MBDB / butylone
BK-MDMA / methylone


and of course caffeine powder, vitamins, amino acids as usual, sometimes used to dilute a products potency.

this ingredient list probably expends to more "legal high" products, the great majority of which are sold in the U.K.

--------------------------------------

as an extension to this list, some other currently / recently available RC's

it seems like none of the actual cocaine analogues available, such as dimethocaine or fluorotropacocaine are present, probably for price and potency reasons. Lidocaine has apparety been in at least one mephedrone containing powder to ease insufflation.

More exotic Dimethylcathinone /Metamfepramone (though is speculated to have been used in at least one legal high since the the israeli pil range)
as well as Phthalimidopropiophenone, both of which were also used in original the Israeli "legal highs".

Reason i'm mentioning them is that they were used in the original Israeli pill line which really opened / paved the way to the current RC containing legal highs and bathsalts we're now seeing on the market and the mephedrone explosion- almost wipping out the piperazine derivative pill sales outside New Zealand and Australia.
Yet it seems like these two RCs are not being used anymore, remplaced by more readily available betaketones and cathinone derivatives.

Also possibly gone are BK-MDEA (ethylone) and ethcathinone / ethylcathinone, which were recently available as stimulant RC's
another one seemingly gone is 1,3-dimethylamylamine / geranamine, once used in an energy drink (clearshot)

this actual pretty much covers all the existing stimulant / empathogenic RC's recently made available.

The new trend is really the use of WIN-35,428 in a bathsalt, if this is confirmed, which would be a "local" synth, actually requested by the vendor rather than a repackaged / cut RC imported from the usual Chinese chemical retailers, and so far causing quite a few problems.

on a more historical note, from what I gathered, the trend went from

- actually "herbal" product based legal highs (ephedra, sida cordifolia / citrus autarium + caffeine extracts), manufactured and sold in the Netherlands and UK smart shops.

-to the marketing of the first fake "herbal highs" containing piperazines and derivates ( initially identified as "pepper extracts") manufactured and sold mostly in New Zealand / Australia and then in the UK-

-alongside the occasional, rather rare incident of an actual Research Chemical marketed in Dutch headshops (methylone with "explosion", 2-CB, 2 CT7 with "blue mystic"...) quickly followed by a ban.
or the odd D.X.M. containing "legal high" incident.
as a side note, there have been similar developments in the non-stimulant / party pill products, with R.C. cannabinoids such as JWH-018 (in "Spice" and others) being traditional herbal cannabis alternatives (lion's tail, dagga blends), and one case of a kratom product (Krypton) turning out to be O-desmethyltramadol...

yet despite the new piperazine pills, the R.C. world was still well seperated from the commercially available "legal highs" party pills, sold as such in smart/headshops.

-then this new Israeli company came up, and pretty much singlehandedly opened the way by introducing cathinone derivatives and other RC's in commercially marketed legal highs.
RC's, real R.C.'s in pill form, some of them quite obscure / untested, most cathinone derivatives this coming after the hagigat trend in which had become quite popular in Israel, especially in the rave/clubbing world.

after a little suspense, the mystery ingredients were soon revealed following an analysis partly funded by a new-zealand piperazine pill vendor, and their leading product identified as mephedrone, 4-MMC. The pills were first sold from Israel directly, then banned in Israel, then quickly distributed by other outlets in the U.K. and Europe. A new line was created after the Israeli ban, but never got as popular as the mephedrone pills.

Mephedrone sales, however, actually expanded, stimulating Chinese production, first in the R.C. market across Europe, with new R.C. vendors popping, up, some almost exclusively focusing business on mephedrone / betaketone / novel stimulant sales.

these stores were increasingly crossing the boundary between "proper" R.C. outlets, which traditionnally also offered psychedelic R.C.'s and rare chemicals over to the legal high market, and the legal high / party pill world.
new hybrid shops appeared, in the U.K. and Ireland specifically, specialised in betaketone and stimulant R.C.'s, mephedrone, methylone and a few others.

Then new legal high mephedrone pill lines came out, sold by head/smart shops.
fueled by the headshop associated-legal high forum buzz, ear to mouth and either increasingly specialised R.C. outlet or legal high outlets sales, openly identified and packaged as such ( snuffs, pills rather than pured powder) ; mephedrone use expanded, and still is. It then started to hit the media, with an increasing buzz, and governmental attention.

Increasingly, alarming reports started coming in, with vasoconstriction and potentially mephedrone related deaths- yet such negative reports are actualy quite ancient, actually starting with the original israeli pill range.
More recently some of these outlets have remarketed their products as plant feeders / hormones for more "discretion".

The (Irish?) bathsalts represent the last evolution of this movement, with the possible introduction of another untested R.C., (as was mephedrone in the first place). This new R.C. is thought to be "local synth" rather than a import from China, and particularly potent, long lasting and inducing severe near psychotic episodes in quite a few users...

related older threads
secret ingredients in "legal highs"
Research chemicals as cocaine substitutes (dopamine stimulants)

b

Post Quality Evaluations:
Excellent summary
Great overview of the situation and speculations
fantastic post, must've taken quite a while to write all that
excellent educated synthesis
very awarding!
excellent overview
invaluable info
Very detailed. Shows the timeline/ process of this products!

Last edited by Alfa; 30-09-2010 at 01:44.
  #3  
Old 05-10-2009, 14:31
nasir~ nasir~ is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benga View Post
β-CFT, WIN-35,428/ (-)-2-β-Carbomethoxy-3-β-(4-fluorophenyl)tropane : one "informed" claim as the active ingredient for Ivory wave / vanilla sky

4-Fluoromethamphetamine /4-FMA
β-CFT seems highly unlikely since the synth-route requires illegal/unavailable compounds.


4-fma? which product do you think might contain 4-FMA?
it is pratically impossible to snort 4-fa which is a close relative to 4-fma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benga
this actual pretty much covers all the existing stimulant / empathogenic RC's recently made available.
there are a LOT more compounds which could be the active ingredient of those 'bath salts' etc.

i'm pretty confident that some of these products indeed contain "new" chemicals.
  #4  
Old 05-10-2009, 14:45
Benga Benga is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasir~ View Post
β-CFT seems highly unlikely since the synth-route requires illegal/unavailable compounds.


4-fma? which product do you think might contain 4-FMA?
it is pratically impossible to snort 4-fa which is a close relative to 4-fma.

there are a LOT more compounds which could be the active ingredient of those 'bath salts' etc.
i'm pretty confident that some of these products indeed contain "new" chemicals.
i wasn't refering to a 4-FMA "snuff" but to pills. It was mentioned as a candidate for a recent product, and was one of the ingredients in the original israeli pill range btw
Analysis of Neorganics Products: 5 new drugs banned in Israel


for the β-CFT reference, this comes from one pretty affirmative report found here
Ivory Wave Ingredient Revealed: β-CFT, WIN-35,428

I agree with your comment ( though it was also implied that there might be an indirect link with the criminal underworld, and the compound has recently appaeared on an RC vendor's list of requestable custom synths) and would also love to see this discussed further in the above thread, thanks
edit : now retracted and identified as MDPV

and finally I was mentioning the R.C.'s recently available, and rather common ingredients.
please list the other many other / novel candidates for active ingredients that you think might currently be used in the "bathsalt" and other R.C. containing legal high products.
would these be coming from custom "local" synths or synthed / imported from the more usual chemical sweatshops ?

thanks.

b

Last edited by Benga; 10-01-2010 at 19:36.
  #5  
Old 02-11-2009, 16:59
Guigz Guigz is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Swim tried hurricane charlie recently.
He know very well the ketones compound, mdpv, dmaa, and ivory wave.

He start with a small amount app. 10mg, allergic test. That's ok.

Now real test.
App.80mg: T-0:00; a white crystalin powder, with an indefinite smell.

T+0:10: light stimulation, more than coffee less than ephedrine. Light anxiety feeling.
T+0:30: nothing more.
Another hit, app.80mg.
T+0:45; medium stimulation. Feels like on ephedrine, tachycardia, anxiety, unpleasent buzz. No mydriasis. No emphaty. No sedation. No taste, just stimulation.
T+1:00: nothing more, the effect still present at...
T+2:30: another hit, app. 100mg.
T+2:40; strong stimulation, he began to
grit one's teeth, nibble is own lip, Strong anxiety. Not really pleasent effect.
It's finished, no more...
T+6:00: effect still present.

He things that's not some ketones, for sure that's not mephedrone, methylone, butylone, ethcath, methedrone. Maybe another one.
Not like mdpv. Less stronger and not the same taste/smell.
Much stronger than dmaa. And don't have the same taste.

He recognized some resemblances with the ivory wave, but with less empathy. And with less compulsive consumption. And more bad side effect (yes it's possible).
Ivory wave wasn't pleasent, this one is worst for swim.

He will add other comment tomorrow.




Post Quality Evaluations:
great writeup, this substance hasn't been covered much
Exactly the way I was going to describe it,not as strong as MDPV but same effects.
Great writeup. Good comparison to known substances.
good experience report
  #6  
Old 02-11-2009, 18:24
gmeziscool2354 gmeziscool2354 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

The thing about judging a pill/snuff by taste is the same problem with illegal drugs, it's likely full of binder and fillers, which most likely are the major contributors to the tasteof these products. Still a fascinating thread
  #7  
Old 02-11-2009, 18:52
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Add White Gold to the list,available from a number of Vendors.

I believe its 4-MMC with amino acids and bvitamins etc.
  #8  
Old 03-11-2009, 00:39
gmeziscool2354 gmeziscool2354 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by akack2 View Post
Add White Gold to the list,available from a number of Vendors.

I believe its 4-MMC with amino acids and bvitamins etc.
see, as i was saying, i don't know how much of a taste 4-methyl-methcathinone has, but i know that b-vitamins have a very noticable taste, especially b-12 and b-6, so it would be near impossible to taste the miligrams of drug if multiple miligrams (or micrograms, i forget which scale its on) of b-12 were present. any way, it has a very strong taste
  #9  
Old 03-11-2009, 00:46
akack2 akack2 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeziscool2354 View Post
see, as i was saying, i don't know how much of a taste 4-methyl-methcathinone has, but i know that b-vitamins have a very noticable taste, especially b-12 and b-6, so it would be near impossible to taste the miligrams of drug if multiple miligrams (or micrograms, i forget which scale its on) of b-12 were present. any way, it has a very strong taste

It contains 4-MMC and Amino Acids and B Vitamins,it also lists other ingredients on the pack but these ingredients I know for sure.
  #10  
Old 03-11-2009, 10:35
paddycue1977 paddycue1977 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

swim also tried hurricane charlie found it quite interesting,swim would not really compare to ivory, it is like bad coke little euphoria, however is is quite stimulating quite long lasting but would not compare it to speed did not really feel motivated and did not get any speed type rushes, it is not overwhemeling did not cause me an anxiaty bit hard to sleep but got there, its quite morish 1g was consumed did not want to do it all,.Was ok iswim supposes,swim would not be running out to try again its also a bit harsh on the nose 5/10
  #11  
Old 03-11-2009, 11:28
Benga Benga is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

any new theories on the long lasting, stimulating yet non euphoric compounds in these products ?
novel DARIs, custom synths or just existing, currently available ones ?
  #12  
Old 03-11-2009, 11:43
akack2 akack2 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

they are all currently available rcs
  #13  
Old 04-11-2009, 02:58
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Last week SWIM was stopped and searched on the street. He was found with a half gram of Blow: intense euphoria in his pocket, it was still in it's packaging. SWIM explained what it was and that it was legal but was arrested for suspicion of possession of a controlled substance. After a stripsearch, questioning and signing a form to say that they had seized my Blow SWIM was allowed to leave. They said that they are sending it to their forensics lab to test it to confirm what it is. SWIM doesn't expect to hear back from them about it but was planning on contacting them himself. Does anyone know if SWIM can claim the Blow back or ask for the results of the forensic tests so SWIM can know for sure what is in it? This all happened a few days ago. SWIM has been arressted a few times now for possession of legal drugs but never charged with anything yet.
  #14  
Old 04-11-2009, 15:35
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

^ It would be useful to ask at least. Any more words on the effects of blow? How long does it last? Is it speedy euphoria or more MDMA-like and mellow etc..
  #15  
Old 04-11-2009, 23:59
akack2 akack2 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Here is White Gold.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg white-gold-bath-salts.jpg (6.6 KB, 104 views)
  #16  
Old 05-11-2009, 00:27
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

There is also a product called "Dusted" which swim enjoys very much.
It does sting swims nose a little but it fades away after a min or two.
Swim tells me that the high is very pleasant with a touch of euphoria and sprinkling of empathy.

Does anybody know what the main active chemical is in Dusted?
Swim tried searching and hasnt found an answer.

ps.The stimulant qualities in Dusted last for quite a while and Swim finds it hard to sleep even 12 hours after insufflation.
  #17  
Old 09-11-2009, 22:15
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

hi,
does anybody know what "white gold" is about ?
my curious monkey asked me yesterday and cannot sleep...
some people specify mephedrone, the others methylone...
i know, its practically impossible determine "active" substance in this kind of drugs,
but at least - what dose is proper for my monkey beginer ?
or its more "speedy" or rather "euphoric" ?
  #18  
Old 12-11-2009, 10:34
Benga Benga is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

interesting, don't know if this comes from actual analysis or hereasay, yet

this article here mentions
"A variety of psychotropic substances such as mephedrone, 3-FMC, methylone, butylone and MDPV, which are found in F1, F2, Toot and Charge."

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=106916
  #19  
Old 13-11-2009, 07:28
akack2 akack2 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Its Mephedrone,a little refined.

akack2 added 1 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guigz View Post
Swim tried hurricane charlie recently.
He know very well the ketones compound, mdpv, dmaa, and ivory wave.

He start with a small amount app. 10mg, allergic test. That's ok.

Now real test.
App.80mg: T-0:00; a white crystalin powder, with an indefinite smell.

T+0:10: light stimulation, more than coffee less than ephedrine. Light anxiety feeling.
T+0:30: nothing more.
Another hit, app.80mg.
T+0:45; medium stimulation. Feels like on ephedrine, tachycardia, anxiety, unpleasent buzz. No mydriasis. No emphaty. No sedation. No taste, just stimulation.
T+1:00: nothing more, the effect still present at...
T+2:30: another hit, app. 100mg.
T+2:40; strong stimulation, he began to
grit one's teeth, nibble is own lip, Strong anxiety. Not really pleasent effect.
It's finished, no more...
T+6:00: effect still present.

He things that's not some ketones, for sure that's not mephedrone, methylone, butylone, ethcath, methedrone. Maybe another one.
Not like mdpv. Less stronger and not the same taste/smell.
Much stronger than dmaa. And don't have the same taste.

He recognized some resemblances with the ivory wave, but with less empathy. And with less compulsive consumption. And more bad side effect (yes it's possible).
Ivory wave wasn't pleasent, this one is worst for swim.

He will add other comment tomorrow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deblurr View Post
hi,
does anybody know what "white gold" is about ?
my curious monkey asked me yesterday and cannot sleep...
some people specify mephedrone, the others methylone...
i know, its practically impossible determine "active" substance in this kind of drugs,
but at least - what dose is proper for my monkey beginer ?
or its more "speedy" or rather "euphoric" ?
euphoric,its Refined Mephedrone and amino acids and vitamins etc so a little milder than Pure Mephedrone available from the same site where White Gold is on sale.It burns my friend lol But is said to be worth it lol.

Last edited by akack2; 13-11-2009 at 07:28. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #20  
Old 13-11-2009, 08:37
Benga Benga is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Refined 4-MMC ? what kind of process are we talking about ?
  #21  
Old 13-11-2009, 08:54
akack2 akack2 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benga View Post
Refined 4-MMC ? what kind of process are we talking about ?
The newer batches are being referred to as "refined",they are far far less potent and not anywhere near as crystalline as before.Fck knows if refined is even the correct term to use.
  #22  
Old 13-11-2009, 09:05
Abrad Abrad is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Quote:
The newer batches are being referred to as "refined",they are far far less potent and not anywhere near as crystalline as before.Fck knows if refined is even the correct term to use.
I believe "cut" would be the correct term to use.
  #23  
Old 13-11-2009, 09:45
akack2 akack2 is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrad View Post
I believe "cut" would be the correct term to use.
Not necessarily man,could be being made different
  #24  
Old 13-11-2009, 10:34
psyche psyche is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

Blow seems very strongly to be mephedrone. The texture of the powder is exactly similar, very fluffy and moist. The smell is similar, reminiscent of seafood. The intense burn is there when snorted. And finally the effects seem very similar to it.

SWIM has never tried mephedrone only, the stuff he has tried was a coctail with 4-FMA, but he believes the fluffy texture, seafood smell and stinging burn associated with mephedrone give it away.
  #25  
Old 15-11-2009, 20:38
HabitualCriminal HabitualCriminal is offline
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Re: An overview of Bath Salt products (cocaine & meth replacements)

A bath salt sold in a shop near swim is called "Moonshine". I have not seen the packaging to see if it lists the chemicals.
Swim and a couple of his friends went into the shop for some over the weekend and the owner told swim that trading standards had been in earlier that day and took the lot from the shop.

Wonder what the outcome of that will be?

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2-diphenylmethylpyrrolidine, 2-dpmp, 4-fmc, 4-mmc, bath salts, beta-ketones, bk-mbdb, bk-mdma, butylone, charge+, cocaine alternatives, desoxypipradrol, flake, flephedrone, history of "mephedrone" : from hagigat to 4mmc, hurricane charlie, ivory wave, legal highs, mdpv, mephedrone, methylone, research chemical information, research chemicals, snorting drugs, snow blow, stimulant research chemicals

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