Drug info - Focalin questions - comparison to similar drugs / effectiveness over time?

[dyingtomorrow]

Hi, SWIM searched the forum, and found very few threads about Focalin / Dexmethylphenidate.

His first question is how is it considered in the hierarchy of ADHD drugs? I mean, SWIM knows Adderal is considered better than Ritalin by most, and that from what he knows, Dexedrine is considered the best. From what he's read Focalin is kind of a better version of Ritalin but not as good as Adderal? SWIM knows already that this is not an objective question, just looking for opinions and experiences.

Second question - does it generally lose effectiveness over time? SWIM was on Concerta for a couple months (then found heroin which made him stop taking it). He remembers the very first time he took Concerta in college he felt like a million bucks all day (but that was a high dose, like 54mg or whatever, which he got from a friend). When he got his own prescription for it in law school it was only for 27mg and he doesn't remember it making him feel that good, although it helped. He doesn't remember if it lost effectiveness over time though, and he's heard people say things like that. SWIM is feeling pretty good, focused, and what he assumes normal people like today on Focalin (just got the prescription last night). Just wondering if he should not expect this to last in the future.

Thanks to anyone who can help.

[Phate]

Focalin is a stereo isomer of ritalin that is around 4x more potent due to better bioavailability, so in comparison to ritalin focalin would be a more potent drug(swim uses focalin for his ADHD, as well as vyvance)

adderall is a mixture of two amphetamine salts, dextroamphetamine and amphetamine, though as swim has never taken it swim can't comment on how adderall makes you feel, but swim will draw a comparison since swim has used vyvance, which contains levo-amphetamine(one of the two stereo isomers of amphetamine, the other being dextroamphetamine, which is what dexedrine is)

adderall contains 72% levo-amphetamine, which in swim's opinion(from his vyvance use) creates a feeling of well-being and a need to be productive.

As far as loss of effectiveness is concerned, swim has noticed this slightly, though switching from prescription to prescription has diminished this

Reputation Comments on this post:

useful information

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by Phate

Focalin is a stereo isomer of ritalin that is around 4x more potent due to better bioavailability, so in comparison to ritalin focalin would be a more potent drug(swim uses focalin for his ADHD, as well as vyvance)

adderall is a mixture of two amphetamine salts, dextroamphetamine and amphetamine, though as swim has never taken it swim can't comment on how adderall makes you feel, but swim will draw a comparison since swim has used vyvance, which contains levo-amphetamine(one of the two stereo isomers of amphetamine, the other being dextroamphetamine, which is what dexedrine is)

adderall contains 72% levo-amphetamine, which in swim's opinion(from his vyvance use) creates a feeling of well-being and a need to be productive.

As far as loss of effectiveness is concerned, swim has noticed this slightly, though switching from prescription to prescription has diminished this

Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. There is very little info out there about Focalin it seems, SWIM searched all over.

SWIM is on 20mg Focalin XR and had about 3 hours where he was feeling good and wanting to be productive, and then he lost his motivation and became just kinda normal, although much less agitated than usual.

In SWIY's experience which one has worked better? Also, how long did the loss of effectiveness take to manifest?

Thank you again.

[staples]

Dexmethlphenidate is twice as potent as racemic methylphenidate, has a slightly earlier onset but lasts slightly shorter. The adverse effects of racemic methylphenidate are thought to be mostly caused by the levo- isomer, so dexmethylphenidate may not cause side effects experienced from methylphenidate.

Neurobiologically, I believe both medications should have almost identical mechanisms of action; if SWIY didn't experience adverse effects on methylphenidate, then dexmethylphenidate may very well be indistinguishable (however I have heard that this is not always the case).

Finally, vyvanse is a formulation of dextroamphetamine, not levoamphetamine.

[Bajeda]

When it comes to ADD medications, effectiveness is highly subjective. Some medications work well for certain individuals, yet don't work very well at all for others, or perhaps have an excessively high incidence of side effects that precludes enhancement of focus / productivity. The same goes for euphoria and / or recreational potential.


My panda can't take methylphenidate, whether in the form of Ritalin (IR) or Concerta (XR). It gives him terrible headaches and other problematic side effects that, simply put, make him feel like total crap. Not effective at all for enhancement of focus, naturally, and of course he doesn't notice any euphoria or other pleasurable effects when suffering from these nasty side effects.

The d-isomer of methylphenidate, dexmethylphenidate, on the other hand...

Well he has written about it in other posts, but he will quote the most pertinent ones here for your convenience.

Originally Posted by Bajeda

For studying or doing academic work, swim finds dexmethylphenidate to be one of the better stimulants available. Methylphenidate doesn't do much for him and has too many irritating side effects, and adderall can get him a bit too speedy to concentrate properly if he goes above a certain amount. Focalin fits right in the middle for him, so while he wouldn't use it to do an energetic room cleaning in all likelihood, he wouldn't mind having it for doing research for a paper or studying.

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Now as for dexmethylphenidate, the rabbit enjoys this substance very much. He'd go so far as to say that he would prefer focalin to adderall in most cases when he has academic work to do, with the exception being when he hasn't slept for a long period of time. With focalin the rabbit feels energized and focused, yet he isn't speedy or jittery at all and is able to focus with just the right intensity on his work. Is a very far cry from what Ritalin/Concerta gets him. On paper it may say the missing isomer in d-methylphenidate only makes a small difference, but trust my rabbit, if you are sensitive to the incredibly irritating side effects possible with Ritalin, it makes a huge difference.


As for snorting, my rabbit thought it was fairly good, but would much rather just take it orally. As with snorting anything else, you get a quicker onset and more of a rush right after ingestion, but the effects aren't really as strong overall and it doesn't last as long. You would be much better off just parachuting focalin. My rabbit would rather save focalin for study enhancement rather than use it for recreational use, but he says it isn't bad recreationally. You just need more focalin to keep doing bumps when snorting, as opposed to the lesser material he feels he needs parachuting. Adderall is probably a better choice for recreational use, though the quantity of material available to you and whether or not you use focalin for academic purposes will probably influence any decision on whether or not to use it recreationally and whether to snort it or not.

Originally Posted by Bajeda

My lab rat would rate focalin much higher than methylphenidate drugs such as concerta and ritalin if swiy is looking to get away from adderall. The rat also finds that he does useless crap while on adderall even if he has work to do, so he tries to keep it for recreational use and uses focalin when he can get it in order to enhance actual productivity. Keep in mind what works for him may not work for everyone else, but he would rate focalin highly when it comes to letting you focus without tweaking you out so much you can't focus on the right things (what you need to actually do), so it may be worth a look for swiy.

Originally Posted by Bajeda

My panda got much more in the way of euphoric effects from focalin than he did from adderall. He also found it worked better as a study aid. Its funny, as methylphenidate gave him bad side effects, whereas dexmethylphenidate didn't. Might be worth looking in to, but if it effects swiy like it did my panda, the abuse potential may also be higher.

Likewise, dextro-amphetamine is more efficacious for my panda than adderall (combination of racemic and dextro amphetamines), most likely due to the peripheral nervous system effects of the racemic isomer. It isn't nearly as euphoric as dexmethylphenidate, and probably not as effective either, but it still gets the job done; plus, it is probably more effective at increasing the panda's energy levels, and getting him to do inane chores like cleaning and packing and the like. Yet focalin is better for creative thinking, like writing papers, whether artistic or scientific. My panda finds that adderall stifles his creativity when it comes to writing of any kind, though it works fairly well for long bouts of tedious study / review.

All in all, my panda feels that the suitability of the particular drug used depends on what kind of activity is being pursued. That said, he also feels that the d-isomers are far more effective than the mixed-salts formulations, not least because of the diminished side effects incidence.

Vyvanse is a marketing ploy by Shire to maintain a patented brand-name drug for treatment of ADD. Its not more effective than any of the existing medications, less prone to recreational (ab)use, and more of a pain to deal with as the dosing schedule is less flexible. Avoid it. Also, avoid any doctors who try to push it on you without good reason (and I can't think of any off the top of my head); they are essentially shills for big pharma.


My panda also tells me that Desoxyn (Methamphetamine Hcl) is supposedly the best ADD drug of them all (based on numerous anecdotal reports he has read), but he hasn't been able to try it as yet due to both its high price and the general unwillingness of doctors to prescribe it. It is still worth looking in to if you have an open minded doctor who won't get suspicious if you inquire into the possibility of experimenting with it.

Originally Posted by Phate

adderall contains 72% levo-amphetamine, which in swim's opinion(from his vyvance use) creates a feeling of well-being and a need to be productive.

Are you sure you didn't mean 25% levo-amphetamine?

The prescribing information says that Adderall contains a 3:1 ratio of dextro-amphetamine to levo-amphetamine.

Additionally, as my panda previously mentioned, this 25% is responsible for the PNS effects that many seem to find more bothersome than helpful.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Great information, thank you.
	Nice post with good, interesting information described about the differences and panda's experiences

[staples]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Vyvanse is a marketing ploy by Shire to maintain a patented brand-name drug for treatment of ADD. Its not more effective than any of the existing medications, less prone to recreational (ab)use, and more of a pain to deal with as the dosing schedule is less flexible. Avoid it. Also, avoid any doctors who try to push it on you without good reason (and I can't think of any off the top of my head); they are essentially shills for big pharma.

I have to disagree, I know a few people who've asked their doctors to switch from Adderall to Vyvanse after having tried it through their own means and finding it much more effective (and one person who asked to try it but returned to Adderall), but that's another discussion.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

When it comes to ADD medications, effectiveness is highly subjective. Some medications work well for certain individuals, yet don't work very well at all for others, or perhaps have an excessively high incidence of side effects that precludes enhancement of focus / productivity. The same goes for euphoria and / or recreational potential.


My panda can't take methylphenidate, whether in the form of Ritalin (IR) or Concerta (XR). It gives him terrible headaches and other problematic side effects that, simply put, make him feel like total crap. Not effective at all for enhancement of focus, naturally, and of course he doesn't notice any euphoria or other pleasurable effects when suffering from these nasty side effects.

The d-isomer of methylphenidate, dexmethylphenidate, on the other hand...

Well he has written about it in other posts, but he will quote the most pertinent ones here for your convenience.

Likewise, dextro-amphetamine is more efficacious for my panda than adderall (combination of racemic and dextro amphetamines), most likely due to the peripheral nervous system effects of the racemic isomer. It isn't nearly as euphoric as dexmethylphenidate, and probably not as effective either, but it still gets the job done; plus, it is probably more effective at increasing the panda's energy levels, and getting him to do inane chores like cleaning and packing and the like. Yet focalin is better for creative thinking, like writing papers, whether artistic or scientific. My panda finds that adderall stifles his creativity when it comes to writing of any kind, though it works fairly well for long bouts of tedious study / review.

All in all, my panda feels that the suitability of the particular drug used depends on what kind of activity is being pursued. That said, he also feels that the d-isomers are far more effective than the mixed-salts formulations, not least because of the diminished side effects incidence.

Vyvanse is a marketing ploy by Shire to maintain a patented brand-name drug for treatment of ADD. Its not more effective than any of the existing medications, less prone to recreational (ab)use, and more of a pain to deal with as the dosing schedule is less flexible. Avoid it. Also, avoid any doctors who try to push it on you without good reason (and I can't think of any off the top of my head); they are essentially shills for big pharma.


My panda also tells me that Desoxyn (Methamphetamine Hcl) is supposedly the best ADD drug of them all (based on numerous anecdotal reports he has read), but he hasn't been able to try it as yet due to both its high price and the general unwillingness of doctors to prescribe it. It is still worth looking in to if you have an open minded doctor who won't get suspicious if you inquire into the possibility of experimenting with it.

Are you sure you didn't mean 25% levo-amphetamine?

The prescribing information says that Adderall contains a 3:1 ratio of dextro-amphetamine to levo-amphetamine.

Additionally, as my panda previously mentioned, this 25% is responsible for the PNS effects that many seem to find more bothersome than helpful.

Thank you very much Bajeda for taking the time to search all that out and repost it for me. SWIM thinks he's a bit of a drug-hypochondriac (okay he's a huge drug-hypochondriac), so you probably just increased the effectiveness of it for him to boot.

Thanks again!

[Phate]

i'm getting mixed reports on the composition of adderall, one source says 72% levoamphetamine and the other says 3:1

i'm betting it's 3:1 as that makes more sense, thanks for pointing that out

[staples]

Here is the prescribing information for Focalin/Dexmethylphenidate. Dyingtomorrow, did SWIY not receive anything like this with his prescription, either from the doctor or the pharmacy?

I'm a little surprised there aren't any articles in the archive when searching for dexmethylphenidate, I'll dig up a few and add them.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by staples

Here is the prescribing information for Focalin/Dexmethylphenidate. Dyingtomorrow, did SWIY not receive anything like this with his prescription, either from the doctor or the pharmacy?

I'm a little surprised there aren't any articles in the archive when searching for dexmethylphenidate, I'll dig up a few and add them.

He did, but it was 90% filled with possible bad effects, and 10% telling him not to sell it to anyone. No scientific information whatsoever, and it was called a "medical guide."

Thank you for posting that for me.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Phate

i'm getting mixed reports on the composition of adderall, one source says 72% levoamphetamine and the other says 3:1

i'm betting it's 3:1 as that makes more sense, thanks for pointing that out

I attached the prescribing information for adderall to my last post; its the primary source for my 3:1 figure.