Extraction of Amanita Muscaria Alkaloids?

[godismdma]

does anyone know a easy extraction method ofmuscimol from amantia mushrooms specificaly fly agaric? I have searched all over and have not been able to find any methods for extraction, and on this forum I havent seen to much about amantia, cause I have looked!

[Phungushead]

If you only needed a crude extraction, you could take heat dryed
amanitas and make tea, since muscimol is soluble in water...

[godismdma]

notrying to yeild a resin or something along those lines thatone can weigh out and dose. interested to find out what what the effects r of different doses using just muscimol.

[godismdma]

is it possible to yeild a resin or powder from extraction of
muscimol? I can't get a answer from anyone!!! Please someone help!!!!

[Phungushead]

Well, this probably won't help you much... but I've heard/read that
resin is pretty hard to make, and has to be done under pretty
controlled conditions.

May be easier just to buy it...

[godismdma]

thanx..............

[tokingchicken]

hey guys, swim found a post asking the exact same thing im wonderin but noone could help him. i hope someone will have an idea.
swim ordered 4 oz dried amanita. swims been shredding them and making tea which does work quite well for a nice spacey weird high.

One time swim ordered a cold water resin extract of amanita and smoked it, and it was quite powerful.

Now i cant put the amanitas in boiling water or it will degrade if not completely take out all the muscimol(active chem) So i cant just put them in water and boil all the water out.

Any ideas on how to make a homemade smokeable extract?

Reputation Comments on this post:

you contradict your self with swim and i incremanating your self is not good be carefull reread your posts be for puting...

[tokingchicken]

man, noone even has any ideas at all.
oh well i guess i will just keep making tea. haha

[jesusfreak666er]

has swiy looked on erowid... swim is thinking, muscimol (if swim remembers) is the active in amanitas.... what kinda of solvent would be needed to extract that.

now swim knows very lil about amanitas, but no one seems to know so swim thinks swiy could try a water extraction (find out what temp muscimol denatures at and stay below that) or possiblely and alcohol ex.

[psychedelaholic]

SWIM has around 20g of amanita powder but doesn't want to make tea with it since he hates the taste. He has pure IPA and acetone, would he be able to soak the powder in either of these, evaporate it down then consume the resultant extract?

[Thirdedge]

Swim would just boil in water, then strain and reduce it on the stove. This would also ensure it had been heated properly to convert the toxins. You could then add to damiana and redry to smoke, or parachute a tar ball. You wouldn,t catch Swim consuming amanita though, yuck.

[psychedelaholic]

Well the amanitas are already prepared i.e. toxin free. How long would the powder need to be boiled for?

[Nagognog2]

About the same as for chicken livers, which SWIM might have after this, - about 20 minutes.

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by psychedelaholic

Well the amanitas are already prepared i.e. toxin free. How long would the powder need to be boiled for?

Please explain. How was the Ibotenic acid removed or converted? Which other substances where removed and how?

[psychedelaholic]

SWIM purchased them already prepared, I think they would have been cooked at around 170 degrees or something like that which converts the ibotenic acid into the muscimol.

[Alfa]

That's a pretty vague description IMO. To vague for SWIM to decide to consume it.

[Pharmacon23]

as far as swim knows, the actives of amanitas is muscimol, which is found only in dried mushrooms (because is forms from ibotenic acid - fresh mushrooms- thru decarboxylation). now muscimol is known to be water soluble, but is has to be cold water, because hot water would destroy the muscimol.

swim suggests that swiy should try to extract muscimol from dried mushrooms using only cold water, maybe for a couple of days, then squeezing the remaining liquid out of the mushrooms, and let the water evaporate (not on heat). swim didnt try this but, theoretically, it hs to be the best way to extract the muscimol. if anyone tries this pls let me know.

[Nagognog2]

That information is incorrect. Muscimol is not destroyed by hot water. A. Muscaria is commonly dried by heating in a slow oven at around 140F. This converts the ibotenic acid into muscimol - allowing a less toxic effect. Hence during this conversion, the muscimol is exposed to hot water. Also the dried mushrooms are commonly ingested as a tea - with no loss of potency.

If your pet Iguana should think of exploring these mushrooms, please read up on them as much as possible. They can be quite unpredictable and quite nice at the same time. As for picking them yourself - be extremely careful. The Amanita family has some of the most poisonous members known and can cause a most horrifying death.

Check your sources.

[Pharmacon23]

Sorry guys, Nagognog is right.

SWIM said muscimol is destroyed in hot water, but he meant boiling water.

I checked my information and I'm not sure of this anymore.

My source for this information is the german ethnologist C. Raetsch.

[DJ]

it's being sold online but swim can't find the actual process available anywhere.

swim stumbled into a sizable patch of amanitas and is quite curious as to how one would produce a 10X or 25X resin extract simular to the ones available elsewhere...

[Koyotuma]

I have heard that Muscimol is soluble in water (though I have no idea on the temperature issue other than to say that I personally would not worry about destroying the muscimol as the pure substance's M.P. is 175 celcius.).

I can not this confirm this as the 13th edition of the merck index is infuriatingly vague on the properties "Properties: Crystals, mp 175° (dec). LD50 in mice (mg/kg): 3.8 s.c., 2.5 i.p.; in rats (mg/kg): 4.5 i.v., 45 orally (Theobald)." This only leaves wikipedia which claims it can be dissolved in water...make of that what you will. If you really want to be sure use methanol as I have seen several papers which use that as the solvent, but like water you will also get Ibotenic Acid.

On Ibotenic Acid however the merck index does offer this "Properties: Crystals from water or methanol, mp 151-152° (anhydrous); mp 144-146° (monohydrate)." which appears to suggest that ibotenic acid is more soluble in hot water (based on my understanding of recrystallization) than cold. So perhaps an ice water extraction followed by drying if you cant get methanol.

The real important bit is seperating the 2. I have seen a couple of papers that talk of recrystallizing muscimol from pure ethanol which sounds plausible and reflects the info on wikipedia regarding musicmol solubilities so I think that would be the best bet (assuming you can get anhydrous ethanol...I'm still working on that one personally).

Hope this helps if anyone wants to try this without the massive hastle of choking down over 10gm of yukky mushroom. I have only done the cold water extraction myself which reduced 12gm of mushrooms to 2gm of brown powder with a few shiney crystals in it. I capped them and took half the dose....typical effects at that dose for me so it appears to work...no nausea either...here is hoping that holds for the higher doses. I did make some mistakes on the extraction (almost burnt the stuff evaporating it...hence I dont worry about the heat destroying the muscimol, it still worked)

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good, Informative post on an excellent subject! Welcome to DF!

[Alfa]

It should be possible to extract with a double methanol extraction. The extraction can be dried. However methanol can be extremely dangerous when handled by inexperienced in chemistry and lab safety.

This would lead to a crude extract. I am not sure which other actives would be in there. Aside from muscimol, muscarin and ibotanic acid, one can also expect to encounter 5-methoxy-N,N-diisopropyltryptamine and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, harmine and harmaline, atropine and scopolamine in amanita muscaria.*

If it where only ibotanic acid and muscimol, the the following would apply: Since ibotanic acid has a much lower melting point than muscimol, it seems possible to separate the two by heating them to above 152° degrees, but below 175°. It would be nicer if the vaporization point would be established.

*Source:
Analysis of hallucinogenic constituents in Amanita mushrooms circulated in Japan
Kenji Tsujikawaa, Hiroyuki Mohrib, Kenji Kuwayamaa, Hajime Miyaguchia, Yuko Iwataa, Akinaga Gohdab, Sunao Fukushimab, Hiroyuki Inouea and Tohru Kishia
Forensic Science International
Volume 164, Issues 2-3, 20 December 2006, Pages 172-178

[Koyotuma]

Would the other products in the crude extract such as harmaline, atropine and scopolamine and others be only trace amounts as they occurs in such small amounts in the mushroom (at least I assume they are present in small amounts as I have never seen any of them listed among the active ingredients which is saying something considering the active level of 5-MeO-DMT is 10 - 15mg (after an MAOI inhibitor)...which is also present so if they were both present in anything above trace amounts amanitas wouldn't be legal.
Don't suppose you know the relative amounts of Ibotenic Acid to Muscimol in the mushroom? I can find no mention anywhere.

Also for your entertianment:
Atropine: Not soluble in Ethanol
Harmine; Slightly Soluble (so you would get some with the ethanol recrystallization)
Harmaline: soluble in hot alcohol (and "tablets from methanol" whatever that means)
Scopolamine: no mention of solubility in ethanol (just as well since it has muscarinic antagonist effects!)
5-methoxy-N,N-diisopropyltryptamine: No information
5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine: No information
So there you have it, ethanol recrystallization would probably drop ibotenic acid but take with it atropine (Mp.P 114-6) and harmine (M.P. 261) which would be somewhat more difficult to get rid of;I guess you could heat it to above 152 degrees to get rid of the ibotenic acid and atropine, then take the remaining substance and heat it to 175 to seperate off the muscimol (which is all fine and well if you have the equipment for all this, I'll just take the crude extract for now I think). As Alfa says, more vaporization info on these chemicals would be very helpful

[fluoroantimonic]

The most effective way to extract muscimol is an aqueous methanol extraction. It is supposed to recover 98%. Muscimol is quite soluble, for water I have read 100 mM, which is equivalent to 11.4 g/l or 114 mg/ml. Apparently the addition of methanol augments it further. As a result of its high solubility, there is no need to boil the water. Simply shake the solvent mix with dry finely ground A. Muscaria.

There seems to be some confusion about Ibotenic acid and muscimol. Ibotenic acid is not stable and decarboxylates (looses CO2 and water) upon drying forming muscimol. If you do ingest some Ibotenic acid (e.g. by eating fresh mushrooms) it should decompose to muscimol anyway. Muscimol is fairly stable and is not effected by
cooking. I would recommend storing extract in the freezer anyway if it is not used immediately.

You're never going to get a resin out of A. Muscaria. The commercially available "resin" is actually the acetate salt of muscimol. I'm not sure if there's any advantage to this unless you want to make a 10X, 20X, etc. reconstituted mushroom.

As far as vaporization and smoking go, I have never seen any info on it. I would imagine that it would work somewhat, but a certain fraction will surely be destroyed. I'd just eat it or drink it. It might be possible to insulflate it too.

SWIM will be having a lot of fun the ones that grow all around his neighborhood.

[Koyotuma]

Came across this while I was tidying up my bookmarks
http://www.tiaft2006.org/proceedings/pdf/AM-p-06.pdf
all it does it reiterate points made above but I thought it was worth noting the figure fluoroantimonic gave of 98% recovery of ibotenic acid/muscimol pops up here as well.
As regards the differences between Ibotenic acid and muscimol I was under the impression that the decarboxylation of Ibotenic acid to muscimol resulted in intoxication which was part of the reason for the sickness commonly associated with amanitas?