Dose - Peruvian torch in inches?

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

SWIM heard of swimmers measuring out san pedro in inches and consuming it, but what about peruvian torch? How much is an ounce, SWIM doesn't have a scale.

[rawbeer]

I'm basing this on what I've read, but I think an active dose of mescaline requires at the very least 1 foot, and more likely 2, of either san pedro or peruvian torch, which, all possible variations taken into consideration, can be considered about equal. SWIM says that three feet would be preferable for a standard dose. So much variation in those cacti - I have also read that these cacti produce more mescaline in drought conditions, which brings to mind certain horticultural experiments...

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

SWIM will drink grapefruit juice the night before the trip increase the bio-availability of the mescaline. Also, peruvian torch has considerably more mescaline than san pedro. The torch SWIM has is rather bluish green. SWIM is almost sure that doses in inches are smaller for peruvian torch.

[rawbeer]

SWIM has seen so much variability in his cacti that he feels uncomfortable making generalizations about which is more potent, although I think the general wisdom is on your side about peruvian torch being stronger, but as above, SWIMs experiences don't justify this generalization.
Out of curiosity, what does the grapefruit juice do to increase bio-availability? SWIM has never really had a satisfying cacti experience - it always seems too weak for his tastes.

[Benga]

Why not to post wikipedia links

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=2726 (Alright, an erowid link instead)

Psilocybin and LSD are affected and probably mescaline, but it's not confirmed. You have to drink the juice several hours before taking something though, or the night before.

DaveDaPsychonaut added 246 Minutes and 59 Seconds later...

SWIM doesn't get it, the whole 30 inch Peruvian torch cactus weighs 6 lb (2688 grams), SWIM isn't sure if roots are included in the weight, but dosages for Peruvian torch are about 28-70 grams, and 28 grams of the Peruvian torch cactus that SWIM owns would only be 0.3 of an inch, according to SWIM's calculations. Is the dose really that small or are SWIM's calculations wrong?

[rawbeer]

I'm guessing those small doses correlate to dried cacti, and if SWIM has a whole cactus Im assuming its wet. SWIM doesn't have any experience with the dry method, and is fact planning on using it next time, having had as I said minimal luck with the wet. If SWIM has a 30 inch specimen, SWIM should probably prepare the whole thing, and then proceed to consume slowly. If SWIM is lucky he wont need the whole thing, but he'll want to have the option of going whole hog if needs be.

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

SWIM will need a lot less cause of grapefruit juice.

[D.A.R.E.]

swiy should only use the thin green layer just under the waxy skin. Swiy uses the weight of the dried green material for dosage.

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

So...can SWIM simply skin part of the torch while it's still in the pot and then harvest the thin green layer? Will the torch grow the skin back?

[rawbeer]

I wouldn't try that - you'd want to cut pretty deep into the plant, and I don't think that would make it too happy. Honestly I think you'd be better uprooting it, cutting off what you need from the bottom, letting the top dry until it has a callus on the bottom, and then re-root it. They re-root pretty easily, just make sure there's a good callus on it or it will start to rot the minute it touches your media. Erowid has some good info on cactus care.
But for all I know, maybe you can skin it - I just don't think it would make an attractive ornamental specimen afterwards.

[Benga]

why not post this good ino on cactus care here, sounds interesting.

b

[rawbeer]

Apparently I can't post links due to my newbie status, so just go to erowid.org, plants and drugs, find the cacti section, and look in the Visionary Cactus Guide - you'll want the complete cactus grower's guide under the botany section, where there's direction for rooting cuttings, but the whole Visionary Cactus Guide is worth perusing.
It's stunning how little water these things need - rot problems are common, SWIM has had back luck growing these in his humid climate. And remember that in simulated drought conditions (underwatering) the cacti produces more mescaline.

[Benga]

no what I meant was either to post a document to the file archive, or copy and paste the interesting part in you message.
links are of no use, they go dead, believe me, i have to delete a handful each day. no links please.

b

[rawbeer]

Here's the info on growing cuttings. SWIM has allowed the base of a cactus to dry for a month and found it was still not dry enough to re-root - rot set in quickly. But SWIM was doing this during the humid summer months in his place of residence, and doesn't like using the AC so his windows were open, his home humid. It may work better someplace drier, where the cactus will feel more at home. SWIM just wants to stress the importance of dryness for these cacti as he was quite upset to have to lose so much of his specimen to rot - they're not the cheapest cacti around, either. I would hate for this to happen to someone else. If you get ANY rot, cut it off immediately and start over from scratch - it's very frustrating, I know, but a rotten, dead cactus isn't good for the cactus or for the hypothetical individual.






Note: When harvesting a large Cactus, make sure that it is at least 18 inches (46 cm) long. Cut the Cactus into 3 equal size sections with a sterilized blade. Do this by making one slice 1/3 of the way from the growing tip, and another slice 1/3 of the way from the base of the plant. (Soil level) Leave the bottom, rooted section to regrow, use the middle section for your purposes, and use the top piece to root as a cutting.

When rooting a Tricocereus species, take a cutting that is at least 15 cm (6 inch) in length. I have heard that cuttings as small as 2 cm (1 inch) thick can be rooted, but I advise a larger section. Be sure and take the cutting from a growing tip. Cut several shallow nicks in the ribs close to the bottom of the cutting. Set it in a cool dark place until the bottom becomes dry and hard to the touch (somewhat like cork).

The section is now ready for planting after being dipped in a rooting hormone like RootTone (use per instructions). The section should be inserted about 7 cm (3 inch) into a commercial cactus mix. Be careful as the pot will probably be top heavy. Keep the cutting in the shade and let the soil dry out completely between waterings (watch for rot). Cuttings might need an occasional misting at their bases if they fail to root or shrivel.

Some cluster forming Cacti, such as Mammillaria can be easily separated from the mother plant after they start forming separate roots. Just carefully break them off of the parent plant with a gentle, twisting motion ( a sterilized knife may be needed for those stubborn plants ). Plant the young starts as you would any other cutting, just remember to slightly bury the plants and cover all roots.

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

SWIM has decided to peel the thin green layer from the cactus, but is peeling 6 inches of the layer from the cactus a high enough dose for therapeutic effects? Also note that SWIM is going to take naringin several hours prior to the trip and during the trip to increase effects.

[rawbeer]

As in all of the green stuff from six inches? SWIM thinks that might work. If you mean like a six inch strip, that's being pretty hopeful. Is this a cactus of 'proven strength?' Basically if SWIM is going to maim the cactus he ought to be sure he's doing it for good reason.
SWIM has no idea how well naringin works as a potentiator, but even if it doubles the effect, a six inch strip - SWIM just doesn't think that's enough for what he would call a satisfying dose.

[CrookedEye]

SWIM would prefer doses upwards of 2 feet of older peruvian torch, but is a hard head, so a beginner dose may start around 6 inches, with a good potent cutting. However, mescaline does seem to be one of the more gentle psychedelic experiences (in SWIM's experience), enabling one to feel in more in control on higher dose trips, than other psychedelics, such as mushrooms or LSD. SWIM would also suggest using all the cactus, minus the spines and woody core, if making tea, as even the white part can contain smaller amounts of mescaline, and the sludge will be filtered from the tea, before reducing to a drinkable amount, so there is no use in not using it (to get all the possible goodies).

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

SWIM cut 11 inches of Peruvian Torch cactus out and removed spines and woody core. The rest was stored in the freezer, probably to let the enzymes convert the tyramine into mescaline due to stress from the cold, or something like that.

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mes05.htm (A guy froze his cacti and had an intense trip from it)

SWIM also is periodically taking naringin to prevent the metabolism of mescaline so the trip will be more intense. Since naringin works for ergotamine, LSD, and psilocybin, it will probably work for mescaline.

This is SWIM's first experience, but an experience that will hopefully motivate SWIM to stop eating mildly unhealthy foods and make him stop wasting time doing unproductive shit while he could be studying.

DaveDaPsychonaut added 289 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

SWIM is eating the cold cactus periodically from 12:01 AM to 1:41 AM but still doesn't feel any effects. Will the effects come?

DaveDaPsychonaut added 345 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

No fucking effects! Whatsoever! 11 inches! SWIM is FUCKING pissed off, not only he wasted $20 of cactus and was excited as hell, but he had to eat that nasty shit for no reason, plus SWIM fasted before the trip.

Off of wiki:

Mescaline appears to not be subject to metabolism by CYP2D6[5] and between 20 and 50% of mescaline is excreted in the urine unchanged, and the rest being excreted as the carboxylic acid form of mescaline, a likely result of MAO degradation.[

That means the naringin had no effect on inhibiting that enzyme, dammit.

How did SWIM get a diminished experience? Could this be because of his low serotonin, or very good immune system? What the fuck happened?

[rawbeer]

A question - could you describe this cactus a bit? SWIM has been doing some research and there's quite a bit of confusion about properly identifying these cacti - some vendors who SWIM otherwise regards as being very reputable sell cacti that are obviously san pedro as peruvian torch. And to make matters worse, the trichocereus cacti can hybridize - anyway, there's a good chance your cacti just doesn't contain a significant amount of mescaline. SWIM would say that's the likely explanation, because 11 inches of peruvian torch, ingested directly without any excess heat, should definietly do something. Then again, maybe naringin has the exact opposite effect that was expected - SWIM had never heard anyone suggest it would potentiate mescalin before, and wonders where this assumption came from. But most likely it's a weak cacti. So - are the spines long? Is there a bluish tint to it? And even if it's really a peruvianus, what's it's diameter? Do you know its age? The bigger and older, the better.

[CrookedEye]

Most likely the dose wasn't strong enough or the cacti was of poor potency. The most important thing to do to get a decent trip, is find a place that sells reliably potent cuttings. Trichocereus Bridgesii, actually has one of the largest mescaline doses, and also has mild MAOI's within the cactus to provide a much stronger experience than mescaline alone, trichocereus peruvianus (Peruvian Torch), or trichocereus pachanoi (San Pedro). As stated, upwards of two feet of a reliably potent peruvian torch, is what it takes to start to get a decent experience for SWIM. One other option is to extract either the San Pedro or the Peruvian Torch, to get out the mescaline, then dose with a much more pure dose of mescaline, which will allow one to accurately dose. SWIM would not extract the peyote or bridgesii, because the added alkaloids will give a much stronger experience, however with torch and pedro, the other alkaloids don't add nearly as much to the experience.

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

Also, the cactus kind of tasted like kiwi, at least the parts with the lighter shades of green, which also looked like kiwi. So if you decide to eat cacti, think of kiwi.

[rawbeer]

Like kiwi? But also disgustingly bitter, I would guess? They easier it is to eat, probably, the less mescaline. Was it bitter as all hell?

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

The dark green parts were bitter. The light green parts tasted and looked like kiwi.

[DaveDaPsychonaut]

Oh yeah, it didn't work cause swim has low serotonin. Meh, swim hates empathy anyway, and he doubts there's any psychedelics that don't cause empathy. Psychedelics are spiritual and stuff too, and swim can't believe in gods cause he's sadistic and if anyone is god to swim, it's himself. Not even his previous reincarnation is as good as he is.