Addiction - Breaking GBL withdrawal

[Ryan80]

I would like to relate a story...

Swim had used GHB since it was first widely available in kit form, pre-regulation. At first he used it on weekends (the responsible way) but since GBL is available in the UK legally, he soon found himself abusing the substance.

Swim ended up taking GBL at 1.5 ml every hour, 24/7. He also used larger amounts to sleep. Eventually it resulted in the situation where he was experiencing withdrawals while using the liquid. A very bad place to be. It meant that tolerance had become so bad the only dosage to curb the shakes and auditory hallucinations would knock him out.

This was terrible. Swim said he had lost all sense of reality, he was in a real deusional state. He imagined all kinds of things, couldn't sleep, and had bad shakes. He heard voices, thought certain things were real, and basically didn't know what was real and what was not. This was almost the Delerium Trements state he had read about, but felt much worse. He had no experience of drug withdrawal - not being a user of anything else.

Eventually he was sectioned and detained in a mental health ward. This is not something Swim would wish on his worst enemy. He was told by the doctors later - since he could not remember much of his stay - that it was touch and go and points. Blood pressure through the roof and all the rest. He didn't know who he was, where he was, and what was real and what was not.

After leaving hospital, he was put on a course of Baclofen and Acamprosate. These act on the Gaba-b and Gaba-a receptors respectively.

After the course had finished Swim felt ok for a while but soon started to abuse alcholol - mainly Vodka. Eventually he reasoned that the alcohol was becoming a major problem, even worse than the Gbl, so he decided to buy a small 125ml bottle of Gbl. He did use this at small amounts at first - as he intended - but soon was back in his 24/7 cycle, vowing that each shipment he bought would be the last.

Eventually, after around 3 months, he decided he needed to quit (again) but found it hard to do so. He bought Baclofen from a online pharmacy, but ended up taking that alongisde the GBL. He needed to stop - badly - but attempting to taper off or quit left with the shakes, uncomfortable feelings, and hearing voices.

He read about Pregabalin, and decided to order some of that...

That was amazing. Swim was able to quit almost cold turkey with the use of Pregabalin and Baclofen. None of this was prescribed, but Swim was afraid of seeing doctors, even though he knew at some point he needed to see at least a psychiatrist.

So - anyone who is experiencing GBL/GHB withdrawal, Swim would recommend Pregabalin.

I'm not sure how this pharmaceutial works. It acts on brain chemistry, affecting the GABA system, but that is about all I am able to comprehend. It worked for Swim so it may work for you too.

If you have a bad Gbl addiction, with a massive tolerance, and are unable to taper off, I feel for you. You do NOT want to go through what Swim went through. Try Pregabalin, and see if it works for you.

The cause? Swim had suffered from what he now believes to be social anxiety. GBL helped him cope with social situations, and he thought at first it was a wonder drug. Since GHB was at first legal, and the early literature espoused the wonder of the drug, he thought it was safe. Anyone who has been a long term user of GHB knows how this has changed. GHB can put you almost in a "manic" state, and really open you up. And since Gbl is still legal here it is too easy to get hold of. GHB is illegal, so Swim didn't want to convert his supply, but Gbl with it's short half-life can quickly become a problem.

Any Gaba-ergic drug can have the same effect, and other users of diazepam and similar benzodiazepines may have the same tolerance/dependence/withdrawl problems. Swim thinks he has found the cure to Gbl withdrawals with Pregabalin and would simply like to state this and share his first hand knowledge.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Well done, an excellent post written with clarity and honesty. This is exactly the sort of information that can be help ...
	Excellent information. Well-formatted and backed up with reasonable science. Thank you for this valuable contribution.
	Fantastic post, thanksfor the info

[Dead-N]

Thanks, This post was useful for SWIM. He will have to try that route since he is getting close to a similar point in his addiction he is afraid. Sounds very scary, SWIM has gotten to the point of withdrawal while dosing as well and it is not pleasant.

It almost seems like people downplay the possibility of this condition and it's severity, it comes from this long term use it seems. Hoping others are taking it seriously.

Good news that something seems to work.
-DN

[MrG]

An excellent post there Ryan and one that *all* G users and anybody considering using should take note of.

Using G 24/7 to combat social anxiety appears to be the number one reason for slipping into serious addiction and associated withdrawal issues.

Ryan, could I ask if you might detail your friends dosing regimen regarding his Pregabalin use for the purposes of withdrawal?

[Ryan80]

Sure, Mr. G

First, remember Swim was not at the same state as his previous addiction. He had been through the hospital, after all, and was clean for around 5 months.

However Swim slipped back, relapsed - and even though he had vowed never to touch the substance again he started another 3 month "binge". At first, Swim had taken it responsiblity: a couple of times a day, usually when going out.

This of course soon became the old 24/7 habit even though he knew the dangers. Those auditory hallucinations - experienced at first as loud bangs as if someone was slamming doors near him - are not recommended. He cannot relate how bad this was.

Anyway, back to the Pregabalin.

Swim had first tried to self-medicate with Baclofen alone. It did help, but as related he started using Gbl alongside it.

Pregabalin was a different story. He says that around 4 75mg capsules to start the day followed by 3 or 4 along the rest helped greatly. This was in total around 4 times a day. Dosage wise, that's about 1200mg a day in split doses. Swim says that it was morning, early afternoon, evening, night. Sometimes with 3 or 4 x 10mg tablets of Baclofen.

However Swim also notes the following:

1. You can build a tolerance to Pregabalin, long term.
2. You can experience withdrawals from Baclofen (Pregabalin unknown).
3. Internet reports say Pregabalin makes you gain weight.

Swim also says that Pregabalin itself is sometimes used off-label as an anti-anxiety drug even though it's marketed as a Epilepsy drug. He also says that doctors in the UK treat it as a safe drug, with no problems of abuse - though Internet reports state differently.

Swim is happy the reports on this and other sites helped him find about this drug. He states that this route of self-medication is not really advised, but it did work for him. The need to use Gbl dissapeared almost overnight, and he slept soundly too boot. If any doctors come across these reports, hopefully they'll consider this drug in treating long term Gbl addiction. He thinks it's much safer than benzodizapenes - and that Pregabaling (Lyrica) is relatively cheap, scheduled at the lower end of the spectrum, but is new and future reports may report differently. He says proceed at your own risk, but it's definately something worth considering.

Swim has a point. He has read a lot about Gbl problems, and he thinks the imminent banning of it in the UK may lead to many more withdrawal problems. In closing, he said please begin your tapering or reliance on this chemical now. It is possible!

Ryan80 added 32 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

Swim also asked me to mention a few other points about Gbl use:

First, after withdrawals have passed he returned to his pre Gbl state. This meant a return to his anxious state, but remembering what it was like on Gbl - without using it - helped.

He also said that withdrawals can last a few days. Although his pregabalin (Lyrica) helped him, he says to be sure that the withdrawals have ended before ceasing it's use (if you decide to). About a week is safe. He says slowly discontinuing the pregabalin is better that stopping abruptly, so make sure you have enough.

Swim said that if you can trust yourself, occasional Gbl/Ghb use is fine. But not if you slip back into your addiction... keep yourself in check!

Swim adds that diphenhydramine can help with sleep, as can valerian and L-Theanine. These are easily available in pharmacies and healt stores. With pregabalin (and maybe baclofen [Lioresal?]) though this shouldn't be a problem. Swim mentions that B-Vitamins can help with any nerve problems. He also notes that gabapentin (Neurontin? he's not sure about tradenames), being the older version of pregabalin, may be a viable alternative but at much higher doses.

Finally Swim would like to say a big thank you to the users and moderators of his forum. He says relating his story and reading others is a massive help!

[Systemdoll]

Swim agree.
After a sucessful stop of using GHB with the help of Gabapentin, swim returned ti his bad habbits and stoped again, but this time with Pregabalin, very much easier.

Swim continue to use Pregabalin in case of anxiety attack.

He was using up to 900mg of Lyrica each day for withdrawal and use only 300mg in case of anxiety disorder.

[Ryan80]

Glad to see someone else has seen the benefits of this wonder drug. It's important to keep a stock though - you don't want to run out without tapering off slowly! Baclofen helps a little too, as both together pretty much cover the whole GABA system

[Kanthor]

Very nice post, must be helpfull to those in need!


Keep in mind though, that your end goal should be to Not rely on these drugs. Also careful with the wording there... Thinking something is a 'Wonder drug', is what gets a lot of people addicted.