Comedown - Kratom induced psychosis?

[oggy]

Has anyone here had any problems with kratom and psychological damage?

I just wrote a huge post about swims experience but the page expiered!

[thepeng]

no. nor have any of the people in any of the various kratom groups i belong to. besides getting grumpy when a high dose isnt tapered, no damage. if you're broke it's you.

[oggy]

What rubbish, any drug that has a psychological effect on the mind can cause damage.

[DepressionCureInDaStreet]

Well why don't you tell us about SWIY's experience? Morphine induced psychosis exists, so Kratom could probably do the same.

[thepeng]

Ah you're right. SWIM was a little addled when posting and SWIM somehow translated the post in SWIM's head to brain damage, not psychological.

SWIM has never seen nor heard of it though, and SWIM is a member of every major kratom discussion out there, so this would be the first SWIM knew about.

thepeng added 29 Minutes and 41 Seconds later...

Actually while I've got my foot in my mouth, I might as well shove it in further. I don't think this constitutes real evidence, but in the health study the Thai government did on heavy long term kratom users (30 fresh leaves per day) the only side effect was discoloration of the skin around the cheekbones and constipation. However, I think I remember one guy have something akin to senility, but there wasn't any indicator of the kratom, then there wasn't much to say that it wasn't the kratom either.


I do think that sometimes when a person is a little off balance, altering his/her state of mind can sort of push them completely over. Especially under stress. I don't think that's a direct consequence of Kratom use, more a combination of factors that all add up to an overload.

[Frond]

I've never seen a study that links Kratom conclusively to psychological damage. As far as personal experience goes - I have never used it but based on my brave vassal Sir Tokesalot it would seem that Kratom would be more likely to prevent psychological damage rather than cause it. An overly large dose (it's not appropriate to use the term overdose here since there is no medical danger) can make someone quite violently ill, vomiting for hours on end, but that is about as likely to cause psychological damage as an alcohol hangover. Proper dosage relieves stress and produces some mild to moderate euphoria, with no notable psychedelic effects, again, not much ground for claims of psychological damage. Using Kratom during times of mental distress generally produces calming and emotionally stabilizing effects, altogether beneficial and one of the primary reasons why people use Kratom in the first place. Kratom has many alkaloids that have been linked to a variety of beneficial effects, and long-term negative effects seem to be mainly addiction with mild withdrawal symptoms, skin darkening, and possibly reversible prostate enlargement though I can't find the reference for that ATM; basically no adverse effects worth noting, though the last bit does warrant further study.

Withdrawal sucks but all considered Kratom is one of the most benign psychoactive plants out there.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very nice post.

[Thirdedge]

Originally Posted by Frond

possibly reversible prostate enlargement though I can't find the reference for that ATM; basically no adverse effects worth noting, though the last bit does warrant further study.

Frond, please do post any references to the above you may find.

Swim has recently stopped using Kratom after 1-2 years of heavy daily usage. He has not noted any side effects other than withdrawal followed by boredom and fatigue.

[oggy]

Originally Posted by DepressionCureInDaStreet

Well why don't you tell us about SWIY's experience? Morphine induced psychosis exists, so Kratom could probably do the same.

Ok but will make it short I hate having to re write a big post.

Swim found that if he dosed kratom around 5:30pm for the start of his shift at work for the positive anti boring and contentment feelings by bed time around 12am his mind would start racing with very negative fearful thoughts, it was almost like being tormented by himself and it would really disturb his sleep (swim suffers from sleep paralysis) and it could get as bad as hearing music that was on the radio in his car that day while high on kratom with a different sneaky meaning that was rather devilish, sometimes he'd hear voices wispering in his ear and see things (obviously dreams leaking into his reality). Anyway it felt very tormenting so if swim was to take kratom he would make sure he had another bag for night time but this just made him use more kratom and got more dependent on it and these withdrawal symtoms got worse and would start to get very anxious whenever it would wear off which would induce paranoid illogical thoughts during the day.

Anyway swims suffered from anxiety and paranoid thoughts before so it's probably not the kratom to blame but the negative thought pattern he goes back into when kratom wears off.

oggy added 28 Minutes and 50 Seconds later...

Also the kratom swim used was very potent @ 5 grams, he's used kratom from other shops and a 7 gram dose wasn't even half a strong as his regular 5 gram dose and he was using anything from 5 to 30 grams a day.

Swim found downers about 4 years ago and they helped swim to run away from his thoughts but it all comes back when you come off 1000x worse.

[flyingfur]

It's called "kratom psychosis", which chronic heavy users of kratom can get, and it responds well to treatment. If the psychosis were to continue after the drug is discontinued, it could be a withdrawal symptom, as SWIM's was, which SWIM got after months of of taking trashcanloads of potent Kratom.

SWIM did eventually noticed a correlation between his stress level and the intensity of psychosis during his kratom-induced tea parties with the Mad Hatter. Sorry to hear that they caused SWIY so much worry.

[oggy]

I think stress has a big part to play on psychological problems. In fact I think psychosis is the bodies way of telling you somethings not quite right.

[arizona79]

SWIM does a lot of kratom. SWIM has indeed experienced psychosis on two or three occasions. It was triggered by potent kratom. SWIM had been doing kratom all day into the night, a lot of it. The psychosis was mild and combined with anxiety. Even with high doses this has been a rare experience. SWIM does not get sick except over-doing new batches (with a couple of exceptions, but this was not during the psychosis). Note that SWIM is prone to psychotic states anyway, experiencing them even with pot and other substances.