Drug info - Mezcal/Mescal info plz

[steve51184]

hi there i've just watched Jamie's American Road Trip on 4od and there was a bit where a Mexican lady gave Jamie some Mescal and it got him high

it's is a form a cacti fungi of some sorts and after searching the forum i can only find info about the drink and not the cacti form.. does ayone have any more info on it?

[chillinwill]

Mescaline is the active ingredient found in several types of cacti. Here at DF, we have a whole forum dedicated to them at Peyote & San Pedro

[steve51184]

thank you

note to mods: can someone move this topic to Peyote & San Pedro thanks

[Benga]

mescal beans, mescaline (cacti) and mezcal explained here

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...8&postcount=18

[Lady Codone]

Mescal and mescaline are NOT the same thing! Not even close. Mescaline is a hallucinogen found in psychoactive cacti, while mescal beans are highly poisonous beans used traditionally by Native Americans for various purposes. Check out Erowid.org for more on mescal beans and read the experience reports...you'll see what I mean

[Kada]

the drink mexzal and tequila are both from agave. mescal does not really refer to mescaline or cacti.

wasson wrote a bit about him thinking peyote and mushrooms, in the aboriginal language, were the same.....as far as i know that is the only real connection between peyote and magic mushrooms, and it was a mistake made by hime later corrected by schultes.

if your lookking for cacti that make you hallucinate search around, peyote and trichocereus species are commonly used.

[Benga]

partial repost from this post on mescal beans, buttons, mescaline and mezcal

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...8&postcount=18

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"mescal buttons" is what dried "peyote" (Lophohora) cacti is sometimes called, prepared for use in ceremonial settings. these "mescal buttons", or "peyote / peyotl", contain mescaline (along with other psychoactive alkaloids)

Mescaline is an phenethylamine alkaloid, psychedelic, naturally occuring in certain species of cacti ( lophophora, trichocereus/ echinopsis....), from which it can be extracted.
a plant, what ever it might be, or plant matter should not be called "mescaline".

from what i remember, the peyote / mescaline cactus ceremony is said to have come from the mescal bean ( Sophora secundiflora) religious ceremony, in which the use of cactus replaced the original toxic psychoactive, the mescal bean, as it had less side effects.

In reference to the former psychoactive used, the dried peyote buttons were called "mescal buttons".

when the main psychoactive alkaloid in the cacti was first identified by German chemist Arthur Heffter, the name chosen was a reference to this vernacular term "mescal buttons", hence "mescaline".

Confusing he ?

another great confusion factor, and myth generator, is the drink "mescal" or "mezcal", distilled from Agave leaves. It has no connection with mescaline, the root of this "mezcal" is Nahuatl language, mexcalli.

[CrookedEye]

Originally Posted by steve51184

hi there i've just watched Jamie's American Road Trip on 4od and there was a bit where a Mexican lady gave Jamie some Mescal and it got him high

it's is a form a cacti fungi of some sorts and after searching the forum i can only find info about the drink and not the cacti form.. does ayone have any more info on it?

There are trichocereus cacti (Trichocereus Pachanoi, T. Peruvianus, and T. Bridgesii, to name a few) that contain mescaline and other alkaloids, as well as peyote (lophophora williamsii), for psychoactive cacti. Those names should help one find a lot more info.

[Kada]

another great confusion factor, and myth generator, is the drink "mescal" or "mezcal", distilled from Agave leaves. It has no connection with mescaline, the root of this "mezcal" is Nahuatl language, mexcalli.

this is the proper usage though, mescaline is named after the aboriginal tribe. aside from a few early reports (like mooney) mezcal has nothing to do with mescaline other than common confusion. mescaline is already the short name for the chemical. im not aware of any original use by natives calling them mescal or anything of the like, i believe this is all early white mans confusion whihc has been quoted and continued for 100 years. i'll try and link to the articles when i have soem time to upload stuff

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Kada

this is the proper usage though, mescaline is named after the aboriginal tribe. aside from a few early reports (like mooney) mezcal has nothing to do with mescaline other than common confusion. mescaline is already the short name for the chemical. im not aware of any original use by natives calling them mescal or anything of the like, i believe this is all early white mans confusion whihc has been quoted and continued for 100 years. i'll try and link to the articles when i have soem time to upload stuff

"mezcal beans" (Sophora secundiflora) were traditionally used, and called such. they were then remplaced by cacti (most notably Lophophora williamsii) , which were (eroneously) called "mescal buttons" .
from these cacti, 2-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)ethanamine was extracted
Arthur Heffter, chose a name for the alkaloid which was a reference to this term "mescal buttons"- hence "mescaline".

the word "mezcal" comes from Nahuatl language word mexcalli, and is the name given to the agave plant in the Tequilla region, the plant from which "mezcal" the drink is made. no connection.

as far as i know the "mescal bean" and "mexcalli" / mescal agave are just homonyms, which are actually due to the translitteration to English of different terms.

i'd like to know what language the term "mescal" in "mescal bean" comes from, if any (could have been named such by settlers), but i doubt it is Nahuatl.

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here's a snipet from an erowid post


In his book Pharmacotheon, Jonathon Ott mentions that "some have theorized that peyotl use supplanted the use of a red bean, the seed of Sophora secundiflora, known as the "mescal bean". However this theory is contested by some. He goes on to point out that the naming of mecaline itself, the mescal bean, and the occasional misassociation of the peyote buttons as "mescal buttons" are due to confusion by European scientists:

"Mezcalin (or mescaline, as this is now rendered) derives its name from mezcal, owing to confusion on the part of European scientists as to the nomenclature of peyotl. Dried peyotl "buttons" had been erroneously known as mescal buttons in Europe. "Mezcal" originally comes from the Nahuatl mexcalli, the Aztec name for a third plant, the Agave species, from which octli or pulque, a fermented beer, is still made. After the conquest, the Spaniards began to distill pulque, and the resulting liquor came to be known as mezcal. As for the active principle of peyotl, Mezcalin or mescaline is a misnomer."

Thus it is a mere confusion in etymology that has associated the "mescal bean" with peyote and "mescaline". The red "bean" seed of Sophora secundiflora contains no mescaline, nor do tequilas made from the Agave cacti.

Sophora secundiflora itself contains an alkaloid called cytisine (originally called sophorine and pharmacologically related to nicotine). The red "Mescal beans" of this plant are reported to have been used an oracular, divinatory, and hallucinogenic medium by native americans of Southwest Texas and Mexico in their vision seeking 'red bean dance'. However, ingestion of a single seed can also cause nausea, convulsions, and potentially death from asphyxiation through its depressive action on the diaphragm. It is hypothesized that this is the reason the Mescal bean was replaced by the "less-life-threatening" peyote cacti for medicinal use.

[Kada]

agreed, mescal beans are Calia, but mescal in no proper way related to Lophophora.

this article clears up a lot.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...11&linkid=3750