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Nitrous Oxide N2O, Laughing gas

 
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  #1  
Old 14-02-2011, 21:38
Arsenic Arsenic is offline
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I did some math...

So, as evident by my other post, SWIM likes to use automotive grade nitrous oxide with 100ppm sulfur dioxide because of its easy availability and relatively cheap price.

So, SWIM has a 10 pound tank of (NO2 + SO2). The SO2 has a concentration of "up to 100 parts per million".

So the question is, how does SWIM remove the bad and keep the good?

Use a bubbler of course! Sulfur dioxide is soluble in plain old water (H2O).

SWIM rigged up an interesting mechanism that passes the (NO2 + SO2) straight from the automotive tank to the bottom of a second tank that's filled with tap water at room temperature (20 degrees C). The (NO2 + SO2) bubbles up through the water inside of tank number two and whatever remains at the surface comes out the top of the tank and is run straight into tank number three, which is eventually filled with only gas, hopefully just straight NO2. This tank can then be detached and carried around for easy transport.

Now, onto the science aspect. SWIM is no scientist, but SWIM likes to think he's no idiot either, so with a little research, this is the resulting "evidence".

If anyone notices any problems with this, please let me know, otherwise we will assume SWIM is onto something.

Anyways, we start with a 10 pound tank of automotive nitrous oxide with "up to 100ppm sulfur dioxide". 1 part per million is the equivalent of one part per million parts, it's merely a ratio. So when this ratio is converted into a percentage, we can see that 100ppm = 0.01% because 1 part per million would be (1 / 1000000) or 0.000001, multiply that by 100 and you get the equivalent of what 100 parts would be. Then multiply that by 100 a second time to get the percentage (so shave off four zeros) and you get 0.01% of the gas within the automotive tank is pure SO2.

10 pounds is roughly equivalent to 4.54 kilograms, or 4536 grams of gas. 0.01% of 4536 grams is 0.4536 grams, or about half a gram of pure SO2 inside a full tank.

Now, at room temperature (20 degrees C), one kilogram of water (roughly one liter) can absorb approximately 110 grams of SO2, more if the water is colder.

So if SWIM bubbles the automotive gas through one gallon of water, the water has the ability to absorb up to about 416 grams of SO2.

Thus leaving the resulting gas at least less concentrated with SO2 than it previously was.

One thing to note is that, with this bubbler system, tank number 2 (the bubbler containing the water) will pressurize somewhat as a result because of the way the gas is fed. The pressure inside this tank will be the same as the pressure of tank number three, so keep that in mind. A higher pressure also has the possibility of increasing the efficiency of the bubbler much in the same way as lowering the temperature of the water. Also, it would be a good idea to change the water with every tank fill, just to be safe.

SWIM has inhaled the automotive gas without any means of filtering, while it contains the 100ppm sulfur dioxide. SWIM suffered no more injury than a slightly irritated throat and a sort of bad taste. After filtration, however, the bad sulfur taste had seemingly disappeared, which may lead one to believe that it was completely filtered out.

SWIM does not claim that this method produces 100% pure NO2, but with only 0.01% of each inhalation being SO2 (straight from the auto tank) it produces a significant taste difference to inhaling the gas after filtration, which appears to taste much different.

SWIM's assumption is that one would not notice much of a taste difference if the filter only removed some of the SO2, but since it produces a significant taste difference, it may be safe to assume that inhaling the gas post-filtering is much safer, and possibly as safe as inhaling medical grade NO2.

References:
Engineeringtoolbox dot com, (search for "solubility") it should be the first link titled "Solubility of gases in water".

Wiki articles on "Solubility", "Parts-per Notation", and "Sulfur Dioxide".
As well as google, for some unit conversions.

SWIM says that if you recreate this, you are liable for any and all consequences, good or bad.

Let me know what you guys think about this and point out any errors if you see them, this is for SWIM as well as for you.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Very interesting post, Very well put together
  #2  
Old 15-02-2011, 01:05
geezaman Gold member geezaman is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

Out of interest how much nitrous oxide is SWIY using in a "session" or a "period", and how regularly are they having “sessions” or “periods” of nitrous use? Asking to give some relevence to the negative effects mentioned

Snufkin asks this to give extra relevance to the statement - "...SWIM has inhaled the automotive gas without any means of filtering, while it contains the 100ppm sulfur dioxide. SWIM suffered no more injury than a slightly irritated throat and a sort of bad taste..."
Snufkin unfortunately does not have time (right now) to look into your working out however he hopes to in the coming days, SWIY obviously has looked into it so he expects on paper what you say is correct.


Snufkin has some experience in relation to your idea as he has previously built and used a filtering system however the design was slightly different. He used two water cooler tanks, each with roughly 5 litres of liquid. The first containing a mixture of ammonia to further aid removal of the S02, the second being just plain water, and then following that a home made activated carbon filter.


At first the results were very good, although never quite achieving the “sweet taste” experienced from whippets, but over time the balloons became bad tasting. In the end by the time the N20 tank was nearly empty he had roughly 5 sessions over the period of a year and each had come to an end due to a “bad taste” in the balloons, after each session the clean water tank was changed and the carbon filter was changed/refreshed.


After each session a sore throat and cough remained for a day or so.


After the tank had been almost all used it was not refilled but sold... The reason for its purchase was because Snufkin likes nitrous and it seemed much more economical than whippets. However the hassle, combined with the risk, and less pleasurable/clean high obtained from the end product made it not worth while.


Some other things that (from memory) that should probably be considered


  • If the filtering process fails and SO2 does end up in your lungs, in contact with the moisture of lung lining it can form Sulphurous Acid (H2SO3) - (can some chemists please confirm this, and perhaps input on dangers of sulphurous acid as opposed to sulphuric acid)
  • Production standards are higher when producing catering, medical or lab grade nitrous oxide. Industrial grade as well as having had stenching agents added to it is not required to be as pure in the first place and may have additional and unknown contaminants.
  • The system Snufkin described was in the UK, it seems possible that stenching agents and ratios within the nitrous oxide may differ between th UK and US (putting this more as a note to self to investigate)


Snufkins set-up was dismantled following the 5th session and the tank sold. Snufkin has returned to whippet use and at least until he has his own cream cake business is much happier. Snufkin is not dead but has no idea if he has damaged his lungs and if so to what degree.

Stay safe and seriously ask is the cost benefit worth it.

Peace,
G
  #3  
Old 15-02-2011, 04:46
Arsenic Arsenic is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

To help put it in perspective, SWIM has had multiple sessions, up to and sometimes exceeding an hour long with about 4-5 people sitting around the tank filling balloon after balloon, eventually making the valve sweat after every fill (this starts to occur about 5-10 minutes in to the session). None of the 4-5 people ever complained about a sore throat or coughing, and certainly no coughing during the session, but they did all experience the odd sulfur-ish taste. This is all without the filter, straight from the tank into balloons.

In one session SWIM has used about 3-4 pounds of straight from the tank (NO2 + SO2) between 4-5 people, about 2-3 of them being first time users. No ill effects were reported by any of them. In fact, the only negative experience SWIM has had with the unfiltered NO2 was one time when a friend passed out after a single inhalation, hitting his head on pavement and giving himself a nice gash to the forehead and a minor concussion. Since, SWIM has taken great care to make sure his guests sit down during.

Since SWIM began filtering, he has only used about 2 pounds total, all with a much cleaner taste, so no long term effects were observed as of yet. SWIM is not sure of the "sweet" taste because he has no experience with other methods of inhalation, such as food grade from say, a whipped cream can. SWIM will try and compare the taste next time he is able to. He has only noticed what he can describe as an absence of the sulfur taste between unfiltered automotive grade, and filtered automotive grade.
  #4  
Old 15-02-2011, 05:10
TooFastTim TooFastTim is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

TIM doesn't understand medical grade tanks masks and gas are very available TIM has 160 liter tank in his garageI take it to tge local dive shop is this not normal on other places Even the local paint ball supply has 2 pound cylinders for sell and the refill there please explain why you use auto stuff
  #5  
Old 15-02-2011, 05:43
Blue Eyed Darner Blue Eyed Darner is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic View Post
Now, at room temperature (20 degrees C), one kilogram of water (roughly one liter) can absorb approximately 110 grams of SO2, more if the water is colder.

So if SWIM bubbles the automotive gas through one gallon of water, the water has the ability to absorb up to about 416 grams of SO2.
Sorry to burst your bubble but I would not be so confident in presuming the water will absorb much SO2 at all. Take meth for example, highly water soluble yet people bubble it through water in bongs all the time. Yeah the water will absorb some meth over time but much gets through. I'm not sure but I think it has to do with surface area and exposure of the gas to water. In a bubble most of the gas is contained safely inside without contact to the water. Perhaps using something like a fishtank aerator stone or something else to generate many smaller bubbles and or multiple filter stages would increase the efficiency?

Post Quality Evaluations:
Solid suggestion for improving the efficacy of the filtration through the use of an aerator stone.
Swimwas thinking the same thing about bubble surface area, very good points
  #6  
Old 15-02-2011, 06:09
Alythezon Alythezon is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

Sorry, I had a much longer post, but it didn't post because I had tiny url for my sources. Sorry, didn't read rules clearly.

Yes, the conversion of this compound to H2SO4 goes as follows: 2 SO2 + 2H2O + O2--->2H2S04

The MSDS says this chemical is highly toxic if inhaled and maybe fatal.

It is dissolved by alveoli in the lungs and then converted to H2S04 causing corrosion of the alveoli walls then leading to emphysema

From the wikipedia page : Inhaling sulfur dioxide is associated with increased respiratory symptoms and disease, difficulty in breathing, and premature death.[16] In 2008, the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists reduced the Short-term exposure limit from 5ppm to 0.25ppm.

As a safety measure I would avoid inhaling this compound. Sounds pretty nasty.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Good information and advice.
MSDS are an excellent resource, well utilized
  #7  
Old 15-02-2011, 06:28
Arsenic Arsenic is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooFastTim View Post
TIM doesn't understand medical grade tanks masks and gas are very available TIM has 160 liter tank in his garageI take it to tge local dive shop is this not normal on other places Even the local paint ball supply has 2 pound cylinders for sell and the refill there please explain why you use auto stuff
In SWIM's state, obtaining anything more pure than automotive grade requires a special permit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Eyed Darner View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble but I would not be so confident in presuming the water will absorb much SO2 at all. Take meth for example, highly water soluble yet people bubble it through water in bongs all the time. Yeah the water will absorb some meth over time but much gets through. I'm not sure but I think it has to do with surface area and exposure of the gas to water. In a bubble most of the gas is contained safely inside without contact to the water. Perhaps using something like a fishtank aerator stone or something else to generate many smaller bubbles and or multiple filter stages would increase the efficiency?
On the wikipedia page for "Solubility"

Quote:
In the presence of small bubbles, the solubility of the gas does not depend on the bubble radius in any other way than through the effect of the radius on pressure (i.e., the solubility of gas in the liquid in contact with small bubbles is increased due to pressure increase by Δp = 2γ/r; see Young–Laplace equation)[10].
I assume this means that, with small bubbles (smaller than the radius of a meniscus I believe...) the surface tension would actually increase the pressure of the bubble, therefore making the transfer of SO2 to the water much more efficiently. I assume that this means that, unless the bubbles are really small, the size of the bubbles doesn't matter. When the bubbles are smaller than a certain size (based on the meniscus or some such) the surface tension of the bubble will make it smaller, increasing the pressure of the bubble which would excite the molecules and make more of them come into contact with the water in a shorter amount of time.

This is just what I gathered from that statement. I would like to know if I am correct about this.

But that means that, assuming SWIM used a fish tank bubbler, the bubbles would be small enough where it wouldn't matter if they were any smaller... but would still work better than bubbles upwards of say, a half inch in diameter (1/4 inch radius)... right?

Arsenic added 2 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alythezon View Post
Sorry, I had a much longer post, but it didn't post because I had tiny url for my sources. Sorry, didn't read rules clearly.

Yes, the conversion of this compound to H2SO4 goes as follows: 2 SO2 + 2H2O + O2--->2H2S04

The MSDS says this chemical is highly toxic if inhaled and maybe fatal.

It is dissolved by alveoli in the lungs and then converted to H2S04 causing corrosion of the alveoli walls then leading to emphysema

From the wikipedia page : Inhaling sulfur dioxide is associated with increased respiratory symptoms and disease, difficulty in breathing, and premature death.[16] In 2008, the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists reduced the Short-term exposure limit from 5ppm to 0.25ppm.

As a safety measure I would avoid inhaling this compound. Sounds pretty nasty.
Since SWIM stopped inhaling straight from the tank (with balloons, duh) he has not gone back to the old way. He intends to stick straight to the filtered stuff from here on out.

Last edited by Arsenic; 15-02-2011 at 06:28. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #8  
Old 15-02-2011, 07:28
Blue Eyed Darner Blue Eyed Darner is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic View Post
But that means that, assuming SWIM used a fish tank bubbler, the bubbles would be small enough where it wouldn't matter if they were any smaller... but would still work better than bubbles upwards of say, a half inch in diameter (1/4 inch radius)... right?
I would think so, I mean what else is the point of a fishtank stone but to absorb gas into water?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic View Post

Since SWIM stopped inhaling straight from the tank (with balloons, duh) he has not gone back to the old way. He intends to stick straight to the filtered stuff from here on out.
Perhaps the addition of calcium hydroxide/oxide to the water would help, it seems calcium hydroxide solutions have a knack for absorbing sulfur dioxide and is in fact used in the scrubbers used to remove SO2 on power plant smoke stacks. Idk, but a few minutes googling has me convinced its worth further investigation in consideration of how nasty SO2 appears to be.
  #9  
Old 15-02-2011, 14:05
TooFastTim TooFastTim is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

Hey Arsenic so how Do you guys dive? Or charge your paint ball guns? TIM only asks cause TIM lives in a pretty restrictive state himself have you looked into the avenues for obtaining said gas not to push the subject just hate to see someone go through all the trouble you explain good luck man
  #10  
Old 15-02-2011, 14:35
Arsenic Arsenic is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooFastTim View Post
Hey Arsenic so how Do you guys dive? Or charge your paint ball guns? TIM only asks cause TIM lives in a pretty restrictive state himself have you looked into the avenues for obtaining said gas not to push the subject just hate to see someone go through all the trouble you explain good luck man
We don't typically breath NO2 while diving...

And we charge paintball guns with CO2 mostly. I believe that some people use NO2 because it's better, but I think they have to fill the bottles out of state or they can't leave the field with a full NO2 tank, either that or there's some other additives in it. It's not illegal to possess NO2 in any form, you just can't get pure NO2 without a permit or a catering business.

Arsenic added 7 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Eyed Darner View Post
I would think so, I mean what else is the point of a fishtank stone but to absorb gas into water?


Perhaps the addition of calcium hydroxide/oxide to the water would help, it seems calcium hydroxide solutions have a knack for absorbing sulfur dioxide and is in fact used in the scrubbers used to remove SO2 on power plant smoke stacks. Idk, but a few minutes googling has me convinced its worth further investigation in consideration of how nasty SO2 appears to be.
If using a fish tank stone as well as a catalyst of some kind, it seems likely that it would produce some pretty clean gas. I'm no chemist, but I'm fairly sure it would work pretty damn good at that point. Do you think it would be necessary for SWIM to bubble it more than once?

Also, I'm not entirely sure how scrubbers work, perhaps they could provide some valuable insight into the matter.

Last edited by Arsenic; 15-02-2011 at 14:35. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #11  
Old 14-03-2011, 07:59
neversummer neversummer is offline
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Re: SWIM did some math...

is my pet kangaroo the only one who can get a license for $25 and fill medical grade anywhere...or is that only common for my pets hippy community
  #12  
Old 23-03-2011, 06:17
nicedrug nicedrug is offline
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Re: I did some math...

my ghost used plain old water for a long time but it fills up w/ sulfer, the ful water tastes and smells of it , and it stops filtering,
if you use baking soda (when I first read of it it siad it works by lowering the ph ) i can't say why it works but the same amount of water it took for a few balloons (it takes awhile to get really bad but for the filter to work optimally w/ no sulfur taste only lasts a fewe balloons per gallon beleve it or don't but it's true at least with ghost's water) can take a whole tank w/ a whole big box of baking soda added (that might even be more than needed, it pools at the bottom of the water)!

nicedrug added 1 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

sorry if i repeated anything, i thought the info was valuable and I'm doin somethin else on the computer right now

nicedrug added 7 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic View Post
I assume this means that, with small bubbles (smaller than the radius of a meniscus I believe...) the surface tension would actually increase the pressure of the bubble, therefore making the transfer of SO2 to the water much more efficiently
ghost had that idea to, but it compounds the cold somehow, she was useing a garden hose, put a bunch of straws through sides + shoved four strws in the endand it froze solid,
( and the hose was in the top of that container so tight we broke the lid trying to pull it through enough to perculate after we cut the giant ice chunk part off had unfiltered nos only rest of trip)


nicedrug added 2 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

I did not mean to post that last part three times i hit stop cause i saw errors twice, it never told me, im sorry I made silver so I edited the repetes out, YAY!!!

EDIT:GHOST IS NOT CLAIMING TO FILTER SULPHUR SHE ASSUMES SHE IS BECAUSE SHE GETS TASTE OUT OF BALLOONS AND INTO WATER but has no scientific evidence besides her's and many other PROPERLY WARNED peoples sense of taste and smell and the absents of heartburn/ hard to breath feeling



Last edited by nicedrug; 02-04-2011 at 03:38. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #13  
Old 06-01-2012, 19:13
popcorn popcorn is offline
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Re: I did some math...

Sulphur dioxide (SO2) has a great affinity for water and it dissolves in water (H20) readily to create sulfurous acid. (H2SO3). This is is a cousin to the more potent sulfuric acid.

Sulfur TRIOXIDE (SO3) has an extra oxygen atom, and it dissolves in water to create Sulfuric acid (H2S04) Note the extra oxygen atom.

The difference between sulfurous acid and sulfuric acid? One oxygen atom. Sulfuric acid is a much stronger acid. However, even the weaker sulfurous acid is powerful enough to destroy tissue, including lung tissue.

Relatively weak solutions of sulfurous acid are used as a disinfectant, just like bleach, in wine making. Additionally, it's a food additive. It is dissolved in wine, as a preservative ("preservative" means it KILLS any bacteria that tries to break down the wine) and you've got a "Sulfates added" sticker on the bottle. It's OK to drink in small quantities because it's dealt with by your digestive system (that normally has to deal with a far more potent stomach acid).

If someone were to bubble sulphur dioxide through water, someone could use the water to bleach and sterilize. When sulfur dioxide is inhaled, in any concentration, its great affinity for water makes it dissolve in to the water film in the mouth, throat, trachea, the bronchi, and finally on the lung's alveoli, (the air sacs) What tissue do you think it will destroy first? All of it at the same time.

Don't inhale sulfur dioxide, in any concentration.

Post Quality Evaluations:
excellent 1st post, clearly addressing questions posed
  #14  
Old 06-01-2012, 19:53
Nanashi Nanashi is offline
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Re: I did some math...

My thoughts- Get a bubble chamber taller than it is wide to provide a longer contact time with the water.
Replace the water often, if you dont you'll just be bubbling your nitrous through sulfourous acid, which may be why someone suggested adding baking soda.

Multi bubble chambers is a good idea. More chambers=more contact.
Same for smaller bubbles/increased pressure.
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Old 09-01-2012, 22:47
popcorn popcorn is offline
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Re: I did some math...

Quote:
Originally Posted by purelyscientific View Post
My thoughts- Get a bubble chamber taller than it is wide to provide a longer contact time with the water.
Replace the water often, if you dont you'll just be bubbling your nitrous through sulfourous acid, which may be why someone suggested adding baking soda.

Multi bubble chambers is a good idea. More chambers=more contact.
Same for smaller bubbles/increased pressure.
So what you're describing might be something like one of those tall clear bubble lamps that stands about 4 feet tall and is 3-6 inches in diameter with the light and air stone at the bottom that would hold maybe 3-5 gallons of water? One of those?

Sodium Hydroxide is used in solution to scrub S02 from power plant flue gasses. Search for flu gas desulfurization for the chemical equations. Sodium hydroxide is cheap and readily available in any hardware store as common lye. Sodium hydroxide turns flesh to soap on contact. Sodium hydroxide is dangerous.

I was reading in another post on this forum where someone stated that it was a good idea to then pipe the gases to another stage of bubbler, with just plain water to make sure no caustic water droplets were inhaled, then through another pipe filled with sand to dry the gases. Why sand? It's fireproof. Remember that nitrous is an oxidizer, and accelerates combustion on anything that burns. So they recommended a filter that doesn't burn. Don't use silica sand, as that could cause silicosis.

Sodium hydroxide turns fats to soap. It dissolves hair. It's drain cleaner. I would think that sodium hydroxide would be or could be more hazardous to lung tissue than sulfur dioxide!!

Baking soda may or may not be as effective as sodium hydroxide, but it surely would be much safer to have in solution than sodium hydroxide, and last I checked, it doesn't immediately dissolve tissue on contact.

Does anyone know any friends of friends that have tried this, and then done a gas analysis to see how well it worked? There are just so many ways it can go horribly wrong.

In doing some further research on automotive grade nitrous, I have seen many supply companies clearly mention that the gas is "unanalyzed" in stark contrast to the other gas products they sell. So they know it contains nitrous, and sulfur dioxide, but it leaves the door wide open for it to contain anything else. There is a lot of gas cleanup in the creation of nitrous oxide to remove impurities. Might they leave some steps out for automotive nitrous to save money?
  #16  
Old 17-01-2012, 10:05
Sanwi Sanwi is offline
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Re: I did some math...

I don't know why no one's mentioned modifying a protein skimmer to use for this. Protein skimmers are kind of the ultimate bubbler.... A 6 foot tube about a foot in diameter. They're used to keep large aquariums free of debris, but would be amazing for this.
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Old 18-01-2012, 17:56
popcorn popcorn is offline
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Re: I did some math...

Since we've moved on to the easiest way to do this, I'll toss out another suggestion; oxygen humidifiers would probably work well also. They are designed for a strong oxidizer, fitted with tubing fittings both on the in and out, and are made to bubble a gas through a liquid! And they're readily available for purchase, with no restrictions, and cost anywhere from $2 to $20 depending on size, features, PSI rating, etc. Simply plumb as many as needed, in series until the desired affects are obtained.

Anyone not familiar with an oxygen humidifier need not visit a burn ward to see one in action... it is simply a clear container of a few liters in size with an air stone in it, and outlet fittings. Oxygen from a tank or bulk system is 0% humidity, so it is bubbled through one of these devices that has water in it to add humidity to the water before being fed to a nose cannula to prevent the uncomfortable drying out of a patient's nose. It also clearly shows to any care givers that gas is clearly flowing (bubbles).

Search the web for

oxygen humidifier

to see pictures, purchasing info, prices, etc. SWIM even saw one with a flow meter, regulator, and nitrous oxide tank fitting on it in one of the pictures!
  #18  
Old 19-01-2012, 01:11
Sanwi Sanwi is offline
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Re: I did some math...

Arsenic,

I did some research for you. The following information is the result of that search.

Most of the people here seem to think that simply running the gas through a bubbler would be sufficient, but according to *mattson dotcreighton dot edu*, sulfer dioxide is toxic in as low concentrations as 8ppm. Therefore, I find it imperative that the process remove ALL of the offending gas. I read an excerpt from a book called "Chemistry and Technology of Fuels and Oils" that in a test, they where able to completely remove sulfer dioxide from a gas mixture by bubbling it through a solution of sodium hydroxide in water. Granted, they used a compressor and a special nozzle which atomized the mix, but I think they're on to something here.
All you need is sodium hydroxide and a bubbler that can handle the alkaline, and that can create small enough bubbles. Sodium hydroxide is fairly simple to make. Just have a look on Youtube. PLEASE, for the sake of your lungs, make it pure, and not like a redneck with a bottle of drain-o.
I recommend extreme caution, as the sodium hydroxide can cause damage just as easily as the sulfer dioxide. It might take a few tests to get the right concentration. Also, maybe just running it through a second, pure-water bubbler would remove any leftover chemicals.
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Old 20-01-2012, 19:37
popcorn popcorn is offline
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Re: I did some math...

Also hashed, and rehashed is that the detection limit for sulfur dioxide, is 1-5 parts per million. Harm from Sulfur Dioxide starts at about 5 parts per million.

However, that's the detection limits for sulfur dioxide IN AIR!! Not mixed with nitrous oxide!

Furthermore, that is detection as it's inhaled through the NOSE. Last I checked, most people, according to this website, inhale nitrous oxide through their mouth!

It's kind of hard to smell with your mouth, isn't it?

So let's say you've sniffed some of this gas with your nose; do you trust your nose to give you a good answer when all you can smell is the sweet sweet smell of nitrous?

A friend of a friend has access to a sulfur dioxide gas detector. We've debated these very same points outlined above, and rehashed them several different ways. A friend of a friend wants to try some of this tech and take some real measurements just to put this debate to rest. But he doesn't have access to automotive nitrous to perform the test. And even if he did, and it all checks out, then it still comes down to the question of what else is in that unanalyzed tank of gas?
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Old 21-01-2012, 16:02
Sanwi Sanwi is offline
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Re: I did some math...

Quote:
Originally Posted by popcorn View Post
And even if he did, and it all checks out, then it still comes down to the question of what else is in that unanalyzed tank of gas?
That's a very, very good point. It would be nice to have access to exact information on how the gas is made.
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Old 27-02-2012, 11:14
dmkt6256 dmkt6256 is offline
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Re: I did some math...

You should add baking soda or alka seltzer to the water when filtering out the sulphur crap from the automotive no2. You need an antacid to remove the sulphur.On a 30lb automotive bottle with a three stage filter setup (two wet and one dry) the mixture should be good for three bottle before changing out the water. This worked fine for about 60, 30lb bottles, over a three month period. NO2 works as a projection agent and time displacement aid when travelling with sacred sacraments.
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Old 25-06-2012, 01:41
Sid Of Id Sid Of Id is offline
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Re: I did some math...

N20 Tank with regulator
Chamber 1: CH3CO2H (aka acetic acid, aka vinegar)
Chamber 2: NAOH (aka lye)
Chamber 3: NaHCO3 (aka baking soda)
Chamber 4: NaHCO3 (aka baking soda)
Chamber 5: Sand (aka fucking sand)

First off, if SWIY's N2O tank doesn't have a regulator, you're an idiot. Preferably one with a relief valve. So, tack another 75-125 to SWIY's investment. Work with 1/2" pvc pipes for tubing and 4" pvc pipes for chambers. Do 3/8" & 6" respectively, if money is no object. HD only carries up to 4", anyway. Each bridge between chambers and tank should be fitted with quick-disconnect unions (and buy extra o-rings for them).

Chamber 1: should help neutralize any lye that may get sucked toward the tank if for some reason SWIY gets reverse pressure. There will be a thermal reaction, but the system should never be fully closed, so it should vent out the end if this were to happen. It's certainly better than the lye getting back to the brass/chrome/steel parts of your tank and creating hydrogen & heat. Everyone in the room would likely be eating shrapnel if that happened. Again, not likely, but what's a few dollars more for another PVC chamber? The acid in vinegar wouldn't handle a shitload of lye backing up, but it should handle a little mist or a small splash.

C2: Lye, is going to be your best neutralizer of SO2. Lye is more dangerous than HCL acid. Read A LOT OF soap-making forums and watch soap-making videos with regard to its handling and disposal before even thinking of grabbing containers of pure lye from your local ma & pa plumbing supply (FYI, HD no longer carries pure lye).

C3 & C4: Baking soda will help capture (not neutralize) any stray Lye and further cleans any S02 that got past C2.

C5: A sand trap that should catch any stray moisture (if any)headed toward the balloon. I suppose its fire-retardant qualities also help (as someone noted above), though would be more helpful on the tank-side of the system than the balloon side, since it's lye & metal that are going to create a combustible environment. The balloon-nozzle is usually attached to this chamber. Don't be a dumbass and suck straight from the nozzle...ALWAYS use a balloon.

TL/DR: Using plain water is bullshit, if you aren't using a lye scrubber to filter you're going to be sucking SO2.

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analgesic, anesthetic, bubbler, co2, dissociative, drugs, huffing, laughing gas, meth, n2o, nitrous, nitrous oxide, nitrous oxide tank, no2, solubility, sulfur dioxide, wine

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