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  #1  
Old 18-01-2011, 17:20
Destiny3331 Destiny3331 is offline
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Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

Hi everyone… I take seroquel for about 8 years due to my chronic insomnia. I take about 20 mg (cut a 200 mg pill with a cutter in small pieces) on a daily base all this period and it works quite well (before I used other pills but they did’nt work). My question now is should I stop before permanent damage is done (tardive dyskinea, diabetes etc…) or can I go on like this (and may be for the rest of my life…) because from what I read on the net the meanings are contradictive… like a small dose doesn’t affect the body but as I’m gaining weight it surely is…
Is there another sleeping med that is as effective and less harmful , what about the seroquel xr should I swith to that one?

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Good question to bring up.
  #2  
Old 18-01-2011, 17:41
Heretic.Ape. Heretic.Ape. is offline
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Re: Seroquel long term (8 years) low dose, can I go on ?

The xr will not be any better for use as a sleeping aid. Frankly I'm very surprised your doc has prescribed this medication for sleep issues. Ask him/her about other meds to try. Are there other conditions that play a part in why you are prescribed this particular medication?
I just took my seroquel last night for the first time in nearly 2 years and slept like a baby, which is rare for me, so I can see it being effective for such. But there are many meds out there geared more toward sleeping disorders and hopefully have considerably less negative side effects than an anti-psychotic like seroquel.
Personally, I would try to see about some valium or such, though I'm not sure I would recommend such without caution as there is considerable risk of dependency.
  #3  
Old 19-01-2011, 00:22
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: Seroquel long term (8 years) low dose, can I go on ?

As I understand it, low doses of seroquel only act on histamine, not dopamine so they don't have an anti-psychotic effect in low doses (20 mg is a low dose). But, I'm not sure if the side effects (most seriously the aformentioned tardive dyskensia and diabeties) are possible with low doses. This is something to discuss with a doctor. But from what I understnad, which could be wrong, low doses only have an anti-histamine effect which accounts for its effectiveness as a sleeping pill.

But for occasional use, they are great for knocking you out. I'd take a quarter of a 200 mg and be out for 18 hrs! It's some strong stuff. I wouldn't want to take it long term though. Talk to the doctor. If TD and diabeties are possible with low doses, I'd go for a z-drug or a benzo over seroquel then. Much rather by physically addicted to a sleep drug than have a permanent and disableing condition(s) for the rest of my life.

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interesting individual analysis of benefits v costs

Last edited by Moving Pictures; 19-01-2011 at 00:25. Reason: addone
  #4  
Old 19-01-2011, 01:01
PsychoActivist PsychoActivist is offline
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Re: Seroquel long term (8 years) low dose, can I go on ?

Hi Destiny,

My look-alike is a chronic insomniac who has tried just about everything A-Z. His problem is that he is also a drug addict, so a lot of the substances that maybe could help him sleep, also get him high. In these cases he will stay up on them on purpose and continue to get higher.

So for him, most benzodiazepines and the "Z-drugs" are out of the question. He has tried COUNTLESS numbers of herbal supplements and remedies and all to no avail. He has also tried counseling hypnotherapy and meditation, some of which may actually help him relax for a short time but not actually fall asleep or stay asleep.

I am surely not saying you are like this at all but I am just trying to give you the best advice I can.

My look-alike went on Quetiapine (Seroquel) a few years ago actually for his Bi-Polar disorder and was told that it would also help him sleep. It did help him sleep at first but he experienced many negative side-effects such as weight gain, anhedonia, etc.

He did not stay on it very long, especially after he did some research on the drug and found out many of the negative long term effects that it could have on him, which it seems you already may be aware of.

He can honestly speak for 1 drug in particular which has helped him at low doses, to get a good night sleep and does not have near as many negative effects reported and also has little to no abuse potential.

One of the only things that has helped him sleep is Amitriptyline. It is sold under the brand name Elavil in the U.S. and is classified as a tricyclic anti-depressant, I believe.

This is just purely from my doppleganger's experience and is only a suggestion - one that has helped him. I just thought I would throw that out there in case you were open to it or have not tried it and were wanting to do some research.


I know seroquel has MANY negative problems associated with it and that its parent company Astra-Zeneca is facing over 8,000 lawsuits due to it.

Here is a link with information about the dangers of seroquel that I have posted in another thread before complete with references: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...&postcount=178

Also, instead of me suggesting just one thing for you that has worked for my doppleganger, could you maybe elaborate a bit more and give us a some more background? I.E. How long has the insomnia been going on? What else have you tried? Was there any turning point when the insomnia started (Like did you quit drinking alcohol or anything) ? These things may be helpful in us helping you, this way we may be able to exclude anything you may have already tried and so on.

Please keep us updated and let us know how you are. Welcome to DF.

PA

Last edited by PsychoActivist; 19-01-2011 at 01:16.
  #5  
Old 19-01-2011, 01:11
DmTryp DmTryp is offline
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Re: Seroquel long term (8 years) low dose, can I go on ?

My cat has been taking seroquel for sleep for years now. It is frequently prescribed in low doses for sleep, especially by the US military and VA healthcare system. I'm not certain if the reason is due to the costs or the fact that it does the job of knocking someone out fairly well.

My cat has not experienced any side effects, however, my cat's brother experienced weight gain on it. He was reluctant to switch to habit-forming medications like benzos, especially since one must frequently increase the dose to get the same effect. His doctor instead put him on Lunesta. Along with her brother, other friends of my cat swear by Lunesta. It may be something worth looking into and talking to your doctor about.

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good info in this post
  #6  
Old 19-01-2011, 08:15
Destiny3331 Destiny3331 is offline
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Re: Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

thanks for the replies, I will go to the doctor one of these days...
  #7  
Old 20-01-2011, 17:13
Destiny3331 Destiny3331 is offline
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Re: Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

my doctor said that i can go on with the low dose if it works well... probably he is not well informed about the med as it's not a comon drug... what to do now... maybe try with a half of 25...
this is realy bothering me...
  #8  
Old 20-01-2011, 17:50
DmTryp DmTryp is offline
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Re: Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

My cat took half of twenty five for a while and it still helped. Her doctor allows her to go up and down (within a certain range) as she needs to. She''s been taking 50 for the past few months, but will likely go back to 25 soon. Seroquel tolerance is an odd thing. It can fluctuate, as my cat's doctor has told her, although I don't know the reason why it does that. If the low dose works and you don't feel groggy in the morning, with your doctor's permission, go for it.

As for the weight gain caused by it, there's an unfortunately large number of medications out there with this side effect. My cat is also on lithium, which is known to cause weight gain as well, so she does a light workout a few times a week and makes sure to eat more vegetable and fruits than meat and dairy. She also stays away from things like soda and high calorie foods. This has helped her keep the weight gain that is common with this medications at bay. She didn't do it all at once though. She slowly cut things out of her diet until it was healthier and the weight stayed off.
  #9  
Old 20-01-2011, 19:13
Destiny3331 Destiny3331 is offline
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Re: Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

ok and when she began with it?
  #10  
Old 20-01-2011, 21:04
DmTryp DmTryp is offline
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Re: Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

Do you mean the dosage of seroquel when she first began or the weight gain that comes along with it?

When she first began with the lithium, she put on a good 10lbs. (4.5kg) or so. That's when she decided to fix up her diet. The extra weight came off slowly, but it did come off.

As far as dosage goes, she started out on 50mg but has gone down to 12.5mg for periods as long as months and it worked fine without noticeable side effects. There have also been sometimes when she didn't need to take any at all. My cat's husband also takes seroquel (seems to be pretty popular) and did notice substantial weight gain at first. However, when he reduced his dosage from 125mg to 50mg the issue was corrected.

Tardive dyskinea, diabetes, etc. are usually seen in much higher doses. A standard dose to treat bipolar disorder or schizophrenia is around 300mg, give or take 100mg or so. That would be when one is like to experience these side effects. (My cat checked with her doctor to be sure before telling you these things.)

The feeling one gets when one is forced to consider taking any medication for the rest of one's life is one that my cat is familiar with as well. She knows it can be pretty disheartening at times and would really like to come off of ALL of her medications. She sympathizes with you greatly and wishes you the best with medication management and health. I hope that this post has helped a little bit at least. I know it can be frustrating trying to find the right medications to fit one's needs.

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great reply and very helpful....good member!

Last edited by DmTryp; 20-01-2011 at 21:30.
  #11  
Old 20-01-2011, 21:50
Crazy Insane Sanity Gold member Crazy Insane Sanity is offline
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Re: Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

As DmTryp noted, exercise is an excellent way to work off some of that weight gain, plus it will help the person sleep at night, and keep you healthy! As for using Seroquel for insomnia, it is frequently prescribed for this, as it has a very high affinity for H1 histamine receptors Because of this, the dose will mostly bind with H1 receptors. As the dose increases, more histamine receptors are taken up, and it will begin binding to more receptors that it has the next highest affinity to. That's not to say it doesn't bind to these receptors with low doses...it's just mostly taken up by the histamine receptors...it's kind of like the path of least resistance.

Since the medication is pretty much binding to histamine receptors, the chances of negative side effects are greatly reduced. Admittedly, this probably isn't the best sleep aid to use, but if it works well, and this person isn't suffering any detrimental side effects, I wouldn't worry much about it. If the person is having issues with the med, then switching to a new med is always an option...provided that this person discusses it with their doctor

I realize that I'm mostly echoing DmTryp here, but I thought I'd chime in anyway.

Quote:
Seroquel tolerance is an odd thing. It can fluctuate, as my cat's doctor has told her, although I don't know the reason why it does that.
I wonder if this is because it binds to multiple receptors? like the H1 receptors down regulate, so it starts bind to more of the next receptor, so you reduce the dose, yadda, yadaa, yadda...anyway, just a thought.
  #12  
Old 20-01-2011, 21:56
DmTryp DmTryp is offline
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Re: Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

I do believe Crazy Insane Sanity definitely on to something when it comes to down-regulation of the H1 receptors. Tolerance to lower doses of seroquel seems to fluctuate. If my cat comes off of her seroquel for a while, it seems she needs a significantly lower dose when she goes back on it.
  #13  
Old 21-01-2011, 09:00
Destiny3331 Destiny3331 is offline
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Re: Quetiapine long term (8 years) low dose, for sleep, can I go on ?

mercie beaucoup

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addicted, dependence, h1 receptor, histamine, insomnia, insomnia treatment, low dosage, permanent effects, quetiapine, seroquel, seroquil, sleep aid, weight gain, withdrawal, withdrawal symptoms

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