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Amphetamine Amphetamine AKA speed

 
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  #1  
Old 10-12-2010, 22:46
FishTits FishTits is offline
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Polyphasing sleeping

SWIM gets insomnia when amphetamines leave his system because he gets the opposite of amphetamine induced tranquilisation at that point. Lately he's tried taking more amps to get to sleep and this works but he can only seem to sleep in 3-4 hour stretches then he wakes up bursting with energy. How frequently would SWIM need to do this to keep himself from being sleep deprived? SWIM slept 3 hours on thursday night, now its friday night and he just woke up from a 4 hour sleep. He's thinking that another 3-4 hours sleep tomorrow morning will equate to sleeping 8 hours per night. Anyone have any experience with alternative sleeping patterns like this?
  #2  
Old 10-12-2010, 23:16
Pseudovoyager Pseudovoyager is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

I think polyphasic sleeping or anything similar combined with regular amphetamine use would be a fast track to stimulant psychosis.

I think SWIY would be far better off finding either some kind of natural or synthetic sleep aid, or changing the way or dose in which SWIY takes his stimulants. These different sleep schedules I've read about definitely do not strike me as compatible with any kind of drug usage that can tamper with one's circadian rhythm.
  #3  
Old 11-12-2010, 16:40
GaryKoji GaryKoji is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

Yo FishTits. (cool name lol, )

I have alot of personal experience with sleep patterns and amphetamines, so I hope my two cents can prove valuable to you.

The rule is different for different people, but generally about 4 hours is the minimum one should safely adjust to in each 24 hour period. Some polyphasic cycles divide this into a 3 hour nap and 3 20 minute periods. I personally preffered 1 3 1/2 hour nap, and one 30 min nap.

It's not easy, and getting into the cycle usually comes with all the fun of stimulant psychosis. Hallucinations, delusions etc... Of course, it's up to you to decide if you can handle that or not. It never bothered me in the slightest. But then, I enjoy taking my mind to those places lol.

In combination with stimulants the sleep cycle is not likely to set into a routine in the mind. Apart from cocaine, most drugs don't do anything reenforce plasticity, and therefore will not renforce learning a new routine. It may not be easy to get into a specific routine, which can be important with polyphasic sleep. As Pseudovoyager has said, you would be reprogramming your circadian rhythm... *rhythm* being the operative word. Without stimulants a new routine can be adopted into a natural pattern within about 10 days. With Amps, this may or may not happen at all, you'd be finding out for yourself.

Stepping outside of a rhythm has some interesting effects, personally speaking. I did a period of 2 months doing no more than 4 hour sleeps, but at random times each day. I experienced intermittant auditory and visual hallucinations for the whole period, but again, I was quite happy to experience it.

There are cases of people not sleeping at all, but it is often mentioned that an absense of REM dreaming can kill laboratory rats. Although it is unlikely to kill a human, achieving REM sleep from time to time is probably a good idea. If 3 hours isn't getting you there, then sleep longer or do something to induce dreaming.

Anyway, can't think of anything else right now as I am seriously hungover, lol, if you have any more questions, I'll do my best to answer them tomorrow.

Take Care of yourself

xxx

Last edited by GaryKoji; 11-12-2010 at 20:28.
  #4  
Old 12-12-2010, 14:19
FishTits FishTits is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

Didn't work as planned, SWIM stayed up until about 6PM on friday, took some opioids, went to bed and slept for 16 hours straight. SWIMs interested in what SWIY means by "do something to induce dreams". SWIMs logic always goes funny and his brain starts thinking for him when hes starting to fall asleep so SWIM tries to induce this himself but hasn't had much success with it. He's sure that there has to be some way to induce this onset of dreaming though. Interestingly enough, opioids affect SWIMs ability to sleep in a different way. They give him sleep paralysis. His body shuts down but his mind doesn't start dreaming.
  #5  
Old 12-12-2010, 15:05
GaryKoji GaryKoji is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

Yes lol, opioids will do that.

FYI, If you're goal is simply to get a healthy sleep routine, I can't recall ever making the decision that drugs were likely to help me acheive this. Just throwing that out there...

However, if you're just exploring:

There's no doubt that our brains do funny things on our way to dreaming. I often enjoy watching my logic fall apart, wondering what neurons are firing or not firing to cause such thoughts and streams of consciousness.

If I want to dream, I usually have a carb n protein *snack* (a little cheese on a slice of toast) about an hour before bed. And I'll usually not drink any coffee for that day. This seems to fit reasonably within the scientific knowledge that I am aware of, and works for me most of the time. I've not found any drugs to have a significant advantage to my sleeping style, nor have they been the cause of any of my more interesting sleep experiences.

The literature on the subject is not complete, so apart from a little basic knowledge, much of it will come down to psychonautic exploration at it's very best. Curiosity...

I have sleep paralysis frequently whenever I become completely obsessed with some project or topic, and always only when I sleep face up. I also had a great experience with a friend, when I was experiencing sleep paralysis about 6nights a week (girlfriend very pissed off lol). We went through a thing called the 'NLP 6 step reframe' which is literally 6 steps, took about 10 mins. From then on, I didn't experience sleep paralysis for 6 months, at all. Had my first one since then just last week.

The mind is an insane place to explore, and I think the sleep cycles give alot of opportunity for mischief.

xxx
  #6  
Old 12-12-2010, 17:42
NeuroChi NeuroChi is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

Wait - you're taking more amphetamine to fall asleep? What did I miss here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudovoyager View Post
I think polyphasic sleeping or anything similar combined with regular amphetamine use would be a fast track to stimulant psychosis.
This sounds about right to me. Developing a polyphasic sleep cycle take quite a lot of effort and motivation during the acquisition phase. Sleep is such a wonderful thing and it's quite unnatural to force oneself not to do it, or at least not when the body needs it.

I could see one using short acting sedatives to force sleep on a strict schedule, or even adopting a forced sleep/forced wake cycle using stimulants / sedatives but I think that's going beyond the scope of this thread. Would be an interesting discussion though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryKoji View Post
In combination with stimulants the sleep cycle is not likely to set into a routine in the mind. Apart from cocaine, most drugs don't do anything reenforce plasticity, and therefore will not renforce learning a new routine. It may not be easy to get into a specific routine, which can be important with polyphasic sleep. As Pseudovoyager has said, you would be reprogramming your circadian rhythm... *rhythm* being the operative word. Without stimulants a new routine can be adopted into a natural pattern within about 10 days. With Amps, this may or may not happen at all, you'd be finding out for yourself.
What do you mean by reinforcing plasticity, a new routine? Learning / memory is one topic but circadian rhythm being another entirely.
Quote:
There are cases of people not sleeping at all, but it is often mentioned that an absense of REM dreaming can kill laboratory rats.
I haven't come across anything like this, please provide us with a source of this information (because it does sound like hearsay). I thought the contrary was true, thought REM is necessary for some memory consolidation or whathaveyou it isn't gonna cause much harm if you don't get it. Gonna have to look into this one though - might be the other way around.
  #7  
Old 12-12-2010, 21:02
GaryKoji GaryKoji is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

Quote:
Wait - you're taking more amphetamine to fall asleep? What did I miss here?
Lol, those were my first thoughts too.

Quote:
What do you mean by reinforcing plasticity, a new routine? Learning / memory is one topic but circadian rhythm being another entirely.
Agreed, regardless, the pattern of sleep exists in the structure of neurons. Within the cycles of release of various neurotransmitters and hormones. The act of moving from a regular sleep cycle, to a polyphasic (or even a basic biphasic) routine is usually an uncomfortable time. After a period the brain adjusts and the cycle becomes natural and less psychologically taxing. The neuroplastic assumption would be that a change of some sort has taken place... regardless of the memory and learning circuits, neuroplastic change occurs across the entire brain in the structure of neurons. Although I am aware it is an assumption, my comment is stating that I personally feel drugs might impact the brains ability to adjust to a new routine in this way.

That said, I am aware of no study mapping, on a PET scan or equivalent, the precise changes that take place during the adjustment period. Would love to see that.

Quote:
I haven't come across anything like this, please provide us with a source of this information
REM Sleep deprivation kills laboratory mice:
I can't actually post links, but an article called 'Exploring the function of sleep' on ScienceDaily can be found by google for a quick reference. To quote "Prolonged sleep deprivation has been shown to kill rats, flies and cockroaches." I'm sure the papers supporting this can be found with more searching but I'm usually content that ScienceDaily doesn't post complete bunk.

REM Sleep deprivation does not kill people:
As far as I am aware, no-one has ever died of chronic insomnia. I'm not sure if the ScienceDaily article is attributing human deaths from genetic insomnia to Fatal Familial Insomnia which is a prion disease like BSE. I'm not sure what the difference is between this type of insomnia and chronic insomnia. Does FFI induce spongiform dementia within the brain?? I presume as it is a prion disease, death is caused by cascading cell destruction.

I can't find any links saying the Chronic insomnia or sleep deprivation can or can't kill you... hmm... I can't find any recorded deaths from either. May have to give up looking for now as my g/f is nudging me. Let me know if you find anything to the contrary, I'm in no qualms to update my knowledge. My main time exploring the field was 6 or 7 years ago now so most of my posts are based on knowledge I picked up then.

That said, I have only since reading this thread thought of interpreting my (and other peoples) experiments with sleep cycles through the emerging literature on neuroplasticity that I am now studying. I think that could actually be an interesting discussion. Another thread maybe...

Peace!!
xxx

Post Quality Evaluations:
good information provided, great input in this thread

Last edited by GaryKoji; 12-12-2010 at 23:00.
  #8  
Old 13-12-2010, 12:02
NeuroChi NeuroChi is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

The article is here : Exploring the function of sleep.

The full essay cited by the author is available here : Is Sleep Essential?.

Though I couldn't manage to snag a copy of the study describing the increase in mortality rate in rats, the other study on the Pacific beetle cockroach was available. In short, oxygen consumption and metabolic rate increased significantly during the 4 week sleep deprivation study and mortality rates increased three-fold.

The only way I can connect this back to the topic at hand would be to note that amphetamine also raises metabolic rate, and likewise wouldn't be the best option if someone is subjecting them-self to a limited sleep schedule. The question remains (well, many do, but one of which is..) whether or not the test subject will feel sleep deprived - and if so - how their metabolic rate may be affected.
  #9  
Old 13-12-2010, 14:12
GaryKoji GaryKoji is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

Quote:
will feel sleep deprived - and if so - how their metabolic rate may be affected
Good point, and thanks for digging around. From my buddies experiences, during a 2 month amphetamine regimen there was little feeling of sleep deprivation, although during this specific amphetamine regimen the sleep patterns were not intentionally shortened. He got approximately 5 hours per night, with the occasional 7 hour sleep 1-2 times per week. The regimen was 3 small doses of amphets day, with the last being at 7pm. For the first month it was very easy to eat, but at time during the second month, it became difficult to motivate toward food at all. I'm uncertain if this reflects a impact on metabolism. It was a high productivity time, with a a good level of mental clarity maintained.


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  #10  
Old 13-12-2010, 15:19
NeuroChi NeuroChi is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

What is a small dose? Time release formulation, instant, or street amphetamine?

Did body weight fluctuate, as would be expected with lack of feeding?

5 hours of sleep per night is slightly less than the recommended for the average adult - it was monophasic, correct? There is some research showing that genetic factors play a significant role in the regulation of sleep and optimal amount required. Some people will require 6 hours a night, while others require 8, to be at their optimal performance.

This is a very interesting topic.
  #11  
Old 13-12-2010, 15:47
GaryKoji GaryKoji is offline
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Re: Polyphasing sleeping

Cool, thanks for helping me clarify.

It was pastey Base. No idea of purity aside from the familiar pungent smell. From past experiences it seemed like average stuff. Dose was orally, straight from the bag, about the size of a match head, taken after food.

Usual sleep routine is about 6 hours, monophasic. And yes, sleep was also monophasic during this Amp regimen.

Body weight was only checked at the beginning and then again at the end of the 1st month, and then at the end of the second month. At the end of the first month there was no change, but at the end of the second month there was a loss of about 4 pounds.

There is also research showing that neuroplastic change can induce changes in gene expression, turning genes on and off. I wonder how limiting genetic factors are in this instance, and to what extent a person can change his or her body's sleep requirements intentionally.


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