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  #1  
Old 18-04-2010, 13:46
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Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

http://www.bfarm.de/cln_028/nn_13128...html__nnn=true

for all that don't understand german: the authorities responsible for discussing drug-related legislation and measures have kratom (among others also tilidin, tramadol and 4-FMP and two JWHs) on their agenda to discuss it's legal status soon. Given the notoriety of these authorities in banning anything that is worth abusing, it is likely Kratom will become a Class-1 controlled substance, specifically the plant and its two major alkaloids
- Mitragynin
- 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynin
  #2  
Old 20-04-2010, 01:50
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

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  #3  
Old 20-04-2010, 07:36
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

Bad news. Kratom has not received very much attention in most countries-- hopefully any ban will be limited to the alkaloids, not the leaf.
  #4  
Old 20-04-2010, 17:11
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

Kratom is on the EU's chopping board. As is Salvia divinorum and Hawaiian baby woodrose.
  #5  
Old 21-04-2010, 01:37
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

Quote:
TOP 11: Mitragyna speciosa (Kratom) and its Alkaloids (?)
Moment the plant Mitragyna speciosa (Kratom) and its Alkaloids (?) in the Appendix I of the Opium Act:
- Mitragyna speciosa (plant and plant parts and extracts derived from plants and plant parts of the type Mitragyna speciosa owned plants)
- Mitragynine
- 7-hydroxy-mitragynine
It seems like the whole plant. There really is nothing like kratom.
  #6  
Old 21-04-2010, 15:28
Mannov_steel Mannov_steel is offline
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

So is this likely to be a europe wide thing or just in germany as the thread title suggests?
  #7  
Old 21-04-2010, 15:36
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

As far as swim knows, it is already illegal in swims location, along with a whole assortment of other plants and substances, and this seems to be the general direction of things to come: ban anything that can be abused, regardless of actual dangers.

What I wonder is, how do they get to ban stuff that isnt properly tested for noxious effects? Or, how could one test them if they are banned? Also, if smoking kills, and is abused, why is that still in the shops?

swim is also always late for the party...
  #8  
Old 21-04-2010, 15:41
semaj semaj is offline
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

swim really hopes this doesnt make it to the states. kratom is the reason swim doesnt use illegal drugs anymore. swim sees no proof that kratom is damaging to anyone if used responsibly. too much of anything will hurt you.

Last edited by semaj; 03-05-2010 at 17:25. Reason: know to no
  #9  
Old 21-04-2010, 15:45
Mannov_steel Mannov_steel is offline
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

Any info on when this is likely to take effect?
  #10  
Old 21-04-2010, 16:51
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

This is making swim furious! Alchohol and cigarettes are still legal, this is bullshit. Something have to be done.
  #11  
Old 23-04-2010, 23:07
Drats Gold member Drats is offline
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

This is just the reaction on the upcoming products. After Salvia Divinorum boomed in Germany, they banned it, after "Explosion" (Methylone) boomed, they banned it. Spice the same, but the market grows in Germany, no matter if the legal drugs are natural or chemical.
Kratom especially grew big in Germany since the past 5-6 years. More and more strains, variations, extracts and so on came up. But the German authorities seemed to accept it, as Kratom didn´t seemed to be a big threat. But now "Krypton" came, sold as Kratom extract. The way how Germany banned Krypton was more like a lucky shot, the true active components are still hidden.
Just because they could proof traces of O-Desmethyltramadol they had been able to say the substance is already listed in the Medical Substance Act (AMG). Regular Germany has no analogue laws, so how could O-Desmethyltramadol be counted as Tramadol?
Because if Tramadol gets partially metabolized in the body to O-Desmethyltramadol, therefore it was counted as Tramadol and not as seperate substance.
But they see the risk for other Substances which could be sold as Kratom, so their best opportunity is to ban Kratom. Than they have to label their opioids as something else, which could be easier to detect and ban.

And the wave of bans isn´t a suprising thing. A few decades ago there was no internet, so the sources for informations about drugs had been very limited. No online vendors who sell drugs from one end of the world to the other, not such a wide variation of drugs was available.
  #12  
Old 30-04-2010, 18:57
Alfa Alfa is offline
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

So kratom, jwh-200, jwh-250, 4-fluoro-amphetamine are going to fall under the medicines act, on May 3rd 2010.
  #13  
Old 30-04-2010, 19:55
0utrider 0utrider is offline
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

No, they are going to fall under the controlled-substances act, Category 1 (like e.g. cocaine). The other opioids are going to be category 2 (instead of 3) which means they can only be prescribed with a special prescrtion, hard to get..

the medicines act is basically the german analogue act, as literally everything that has as its purpose to medically work inside the body is a medicine under the medicines act. Thats how they seized all the GBL a few months ago, altough GBL is still perfectly legal. Only intent of consumption or selling for consumption has to be proven, which is not a really unbiased and objective test, rather realistic instead.
The difference is, that (1) many things are not recognized as long as they are not 'really' scheduled and (2) most behaviour under the medicines act is misdemeanor-like. So no criminal law applies, usually only fines, unless one intents to sell things 'commercially' (again, only if for the purpose of consumption!) without a license.. something along these lines. Either way, for the personal use and acquisition anything falling under the medicines act is either completely legal or at best results in a fine.
this was off-topic, but just to explain it.. the german authorities are not lenient regarding this, neither the police, nor the medicine-authorities and especially not the customs. the only good part is: they are quite slow regarding new things. but, as seen in the GBL-cases they do bend the law to quite some extend if its necessary from their point of view. at least 99% of the GBL cases were dropped, and most did not give any reason of abuse at all. there were many cases of legitimate use in in chemistry, even one teenager who previously won a germany-high-school competition in chemistry and just needed this for basic processes (cleaning?). they found his lab and thought it was a meth lab and sent a special-unit and bomb-experts and the like. quite embarassing and stupid and a waste of tax money.
even if, its hard to prove how the 250ml were used. on the other hand, they probably often found contraband, so.. yeah.. quite a way to get a warrant to discriminate evil drug users.
  #14  
Old 30-04-2010, 20:19
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingme View Post
Also, if smoking kills, and is abused, why is that still in the shops?

Call me a nut job conspiracy theorist if you like (most do), but I believe it could be because the governments know they can control people with tobacco and alcohol. Look at your average binge drinker, they hate drugs and those 'dropout losers' that take them. Therefore the government is saying "drink alcohol and we'll leave you alone, take drugs and you think too much about our bull shit policies". They can't have people thinking for themselves now can they?

I could have wrote that better but it's a bit rushed as I'm about to go out. Something to think about though (see what I'm saying).
  #15  
Old 30-04-2010, 20:42
0utrider 0utrider is offline
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

I think it is a mixture of ignorance, unwillingness to allow others what is personally not preferred, financial reasons and most importantly fear. Fear of the unknown, fear to let go, fear to change their own little world as it is.
I do not believe in conspiracy.
  #16  
Old 03-05-2010, 08:53
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Re: Kratom may become illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa View Post
So kratom, jwh-200, jwh-250, 4-fluoro-amphetamine are going to fall under the medicines act, on May 3rd 2010.
on may 3rd, today, they will decide, if the substances listed above will be added to BTMG attachment (like controlled substances act) I-III (I for example there is heroin, coke, amphetamin). 4-FA is discussed to be added to BTMG I. BTMG III are mostly high potency opiodes (painkillers like oxycodone, hydromorphone, subutex). You can get them prescripted, with a highly controlled BTMG presciption, but they are hard to get. Even people who need them, sometimes don't get adequate meds, because of too much bureaucracy.
  #17  
Old 04-05-2010, 15:23
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

What happened with this? Was a decision made? Has it been finalized now?
  #18  
Old 04-05-2010, 15:53
0utrider 0utrider is offline
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

the meeting was held yesterday, i think it will take 2-3 weeks till they publish their decision
  #19  
Old 04-05-2010, 18:34
HabitualCriminal HabitualCriminal is offline
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

This banning of new substances is getting beyond a joke.

Tobacco kills over 80 thousand people a year in England alone according to the department of health website, and alcohol kills over 9 thousand in the UK on the same website (sounds rather conservative if you ask me).

However people have been using kratom and the likes for years under the radar of officials & media, im pretty sure if a new legal high came around and killed 80 thousand people in a year there would be serious consequences for any government that allowed it to happen.

Does anyone know of any illegal drugs that kill this many people a year?? I cant find any. Searching for heroin related deaths brings a figure of 2500 deaths a year in the uk for heroin & crack.

So, im safer on the smack and crack than I am drinking & smoking???
  #20  
Old 04-05-2010, 19:17
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

Straight up if Kratom is banned in the UK, SWIMs going to war. He has helped countless people including himself get off stronger opiates and alcohol with this fantastic substance and it will be the hypocracy to end all hypocracies if it is banned.

SWIMs thinks there is a case to take this to the european court of human rights, should the ban come to fruition. He for one will be seeking legal advice if it is and will take it all the way if he has to.

If its just banned in Germany only, well sorry guys, SWIM feels for ya. Luckily in the UK we dont tend to pay much attention to German policy so that shouldnt bring about a "chain reaction" banning.
  #21  
Old 05-05-2010, 03:11
DiabolicScheme DiabolicScheme is offline
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

SWIM is surprised Kratom is on the list, SWIM figured Kratom is pretty low on the radar and popularity list still. Spice doesn't surprise SWIM.

SWIM is pretty pissed off at the youtube generation glamorizing some of these alternatives when they could have legitimate uses.
  #22  
Old 05-05-2010, 17:27
kratom kratom is offline
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

Decision published.

Kratom decision postponed. Others, like 4FL, JWH's advice to be on the list.
Check the BfArM site for more info.


"Die Beschlussfassung zu den Wirkstoffen Tramadol und Tilidin sowie zu der Pflanze Mitragyna speciosa (Kratom) und ihrer Inhaltsstoffe Mitragynin und 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynin wurde vertagt."

Post Quality Evaluations:
Good update
  #23  
Old 06-05-2010, 16:06
Drop_It_Or_Not Drop_It_Or_Not is offline
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

Hey Buddy,

"Die Beschlussfassung zu den Wirkstoffen Tramadol und Tilidin sowie zu der Pflanze Mitragyna speciosa (Kratom) und ihrer Inhaltsstoffe Mitragynin und 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynin wurde vertagt."

means

"The decision-making regarding the substances/products Tramadol, Tilidin and the plant Kratom and its ingredients : Mitragynin and 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynin has been postponed"

So there has not been any decision yet, as far as I know, in Germany these kind of processes need a bit more time due to bureaucracy-issues.

Outrider, any commitment ?

Regards,

DION

Edit :

Kratom already posted it ... for anyone who wants to learn a little German, my post could be helpful anyways.

Last edited by Drop_It_Or_Not; 06-05-2010 at 16:09. Reason: Posted redundant info
  #24  
Old 07-05-2010, 01:41
Drats Gold member Drats is offline
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

Those substances are just the topic of the discussion. There they will decide which should be controlled, after that they write a law. Than that law has to be accepted, after that a date will be given when the law update starts to be active.

So this is all on a very early stage, guess that was already said a few times before, but it seems to be still unclear for a lot of people.

So currently it is unsure if the substances will be banned or if they ban all of them, the whole procedure will take several months, so the final ban could be expected at january 2011.

Like it was with other substances, the past two years they always updated the law in january, but the substances had been already discussed at the beginning in the year before. So currently all is speculation and no dates are said, all of the listed substances are yet still legal in Germany.
  #25  
Old 11-05-2010, 11:11
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Re: Kratom, 4FA, jwh-200, jwh-250 will become illegal in Germany

Updates:
http://www.bfarm.de/cln_012/nn_42430...html__nnn=true

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