Are Drugs part of the "New World Order"?

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by EyesOfTheWorld

Anyhow, as for the original question, yeah, SWIM feels drugs are a huge part of the NWE, but not quite as the OP is stating. Keeping drugs illegal contributes massive amounts of money and basically free slave labor to the ruling elite, and has the side effect of turning free thinking intelligent people into junkies, crackheads and overdose victims.

Some questions then:

1) How does keeping drugs illegal "contribute massive amounts of money"? Billions of dollars are spent every year around the world to fund the 'war on drugs'. It costs insane amounts of money to keep people in prison. Then there's all the government-funded recovery programmes, drug 'education' (whatever you think of the truthfulness or effectiveness of it)...how is this making governments money? If they wanted to use drugs to make money, they would legalise them and rake in unimaginable amounts of revenue through tax (like they do with alcohol and tobacco). No-one has yet reasonably explained this "free slave labour" idea - there's no way some lags sewing mailbags could possibly constitute labour with a value greater than a small fraction of the cost of keeping them in jail. Never mind the cost of putting them on trial in the first place.

2) The vast majority of people do not take illegal drugs. The vast majority of drug users are not crackheads or junkies. If, for some nefarious reason, a government wanted to keep people addicted to hard illegal drugs, they're not succeeding too well.

3) What value is there, when you really get down to it, is there in having lots of people hooked on drugs? Drugs that are produced by criminal gangs, which cost governments instead of contributing to them. The only possible answer I can see is that governments consist entirely of moustache-twirling supervillains who simply get off on inflicting misery on the population. Which is a pretty infantile and unhelpful view of how governments work and what motivates the people who make them up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not cheerleading them: just calling for a bit of realism when talking about why they do what they do.

4) I would guess that the majority of people who end up with severe drug problems are dysfunctional people from dysfunctional backgrounds, often with not much in the way of education...not exactly future Nobel laureates, as harsh as that may sound. William Burroughs may have been a junky, but not every junky is William Burroughs, you know?

As far as drug-related conspiracies go, I would say the pharmaceuticals industry is a much better subject for discussion than the illegal drug trade. Though of course there are certain events such as the Iran/Contra affair where government agencies may have facilitated trade in illegal drugs - but I don't think this is part of some over-arching global conspiracy.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Awesome post, I love the biting humor and refreshingly realistic worldview.

[Spucky]

1. imo. "The Puppeteers" need some "Black Money", Money that never will shown in the Books. One Reason is Terrorism, Counter-Terrorism (have a look for the "Gladio-Program"),
but also for Programs where they
will never get any Money from neutral sources!

a. Please don`t forget that the Fight is not finished yet,
either the Good ones neither the bad Ones win Today.
For the one Side it`s ethically impossible to legalize Drugs because it means Slavery
the other Side can`t do it in a Night-Attack!

2. Imo. the Melange is the answer, inside of the Us. every 4. Person is taking "Medicine", one in 100. is taking illegal Hard-Drugs, nearly no one is living by them self,
they affect other People!

If we look now into the Media we will see that the majority of the Actors, Musician,
and other forms of Artist is doing Drugs, Drugs are made tolerable.
We have all kind of Drug-tests in the Sport, we have Drug-tests if you start a new Work as a "Fork-Lifter"
and of course we have Drug-tests if you try to Work for the Government,
but why there are no Drug-tests for the People we adore?
Why there is no Drug-testing for People who have a very big Influence
to our Kid`s?

This is just a Question!

3. You can perfect the Machine of Repression, you can upgrade the Law`s for Surveillance and you can control the People

4. Do you really think William Burroughs was an Intellectual?
He was imo. just a Son of a Rich Family, nothing more.

All my ideas are just half-baked Ideas and have no claim to be right!

[usedagain]

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

) How does keeping drugs illegal "contribute massive amounts of money"? Billions of dollars are spent every year around the world to fund the 'war on drugs'. It costs insane amounts of money to keep people in prison. Then there's all the government-funded recovery programmes, drug 'education' (whatever you think of the truthfulness or effectiveness of it)...how is this making governments money? If they wanted to use drugs to make money, they would legalise them and rake in unimaginable amounts of revenue through tax (like they do with alcohol and tobacco). No-one has yet reasonably explained this "free slave labour" idea - there's no way some lags sewing mailbags could possibly constitute labour with a value greater than a small fraction of the cost of keeping them in jail. Never mind the cost of putting them on trial in the first place.

The war on drug is a farce. The people making the money are not the ones paying for the jail time (we he taxpayers do that) Do you know about the drug situation in Afghanistan? More herion is coming out of there now than before the war...wonder who is doing that. {for laughs, what Bill HIck "War on Drugs:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24...r-on-drugs_fun

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

2) The vast majority of people do not take illegal drugs. The vast majority of drug users are not crackheads or junkies. If, for some nefarious reason, a government wanted to keep people addicted to hard illegal drugs, they're not succeeding too well.

Their profit margin is probably sufficient, and the problem isn't just illegal drugs. As you mention below, the pharmaceutical companies are keeping up quiet nicely.

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

3) What value is there, when you really get down to it, is there in having lots of people hooked on drugs? Drugs that are produced by criminal gangs, which cost governments instead of contributing to them. The only possible answer I can see is that governments consist entirely of moustache-twirling supervillains who simply get off on inflicting misery on the population. Which is a pretty infantile and unhelpful view of how governments work and what motivates the people who make them up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not cheerleading them: just calling for a bit of realism when talking about why they do what they do.

To explain this, you'd need to get a lot of background beyond this thread. Search for Eugenics, watch the movie posted in this thread, "Ring of Power" for starters.

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

4) I would guess that the majority of people who end up with severe drug problems are dysfunctional people from dysfunctional backgrounds, often with not much in the way of education...not exactly future Nobel laureates, as harsh as that may sound. William Burroughs may have been a junky, but not every junky is William Burroughs, you know?

Be careful about classifying drug users as not having education. I would argue that the most intelligent people in the world have been drug users (maybe not abusers) Lots of creative people have used drugs...most of my favorites, anyways. I don't know Burroughs, but i love Edgar allen poe and lewis carrol,not to mention almost ALL of the musicians I've loved.

And do you know just how many people there are now who are addicted to drugs, illegal or not? it is mind-boggling. Of course they are likely to be from dysfunctional families, aren't most people?

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

As far as drug-related conspiracies go, I would say the pharmaceuticals industry is a much better subject for discussion than the illegal drug trade. Though of course there are certain events such as the Iran/Contra affair where government agencies may have facilitated trade in illegal drugs - but I don't think this is part of some over-arching global conspiracy.

"May have facilitated?" Check the history. The pharmaceutical companies are definitely complicit. They have lobbyist....They are in it with the government. May it is no an over-arching global conspiracy. Maybe it is just different cells operating in individual greed, but they also seem to work together......Watch for this...They do work together for common interest.
Conspiracy is often not the best word to use for a lot of events....I'm thinking of those which are true but just not widely known about . . ; As Bush said, "Let us not tolerate wild conspiracy theories....." What's he afraid of?

Don't be afraid of the truth. You make good points. I think you'd be surprised if you dig a little deeper

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good points contributing to discussion

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by usedagain

The war on drug is a farce.

Preaching -> choir.

Originally Posted by usedagain

The people making the money are not the ones paying for the jail time (we he taxpayers do that)

Well yeah sure, it's tax that funds prisons, the entire legal system and everything else for that matter. I'm aware that you're posting from the USA where (as I understand it) a huge proportion of the prison service is provided by private companies. I think it's a bit different in the UK, but even here private firms are heavily involved. I think some run whole prisons. Now I'm not a hard left socialist but I think this is pretty disgraceful - the prison service should be apolitical and it can't be apolitical if it's a business concern.

Originally Posted by usedagain

Do you know about the drug situation in Afghanistan?

Well it's not my specialist subject but I'm aware a good concise answer would be "pretty fucking bad". Or very good, if you're a Taliban warlord in need of cash to finance a holy war.

Originally Posted by usedagain

More herion is coming out of there now than before the war...wonder who is doing that.

I would hazard a guess at highly sophisticated and ruthless criminal networks; they usually do the trick quite effectively. More heroin is being produced and exported because of the utter chaos that followed the invasion (not that Afghanistan was exactly a model of an orderly society before the invasion, of course) and because of an ideological change of tack by the Taliban whereby they've decided it's perfectly OK fund themselves by exporting drugs because it's only going to end up in the veins of filthy infidels (or those decadent heretics in Iran!) anyway, and if it harms Western societies then so much the better.

You've phrased that question in a way that's very characteristic of people peddling conspiracy theories - you're not explicitly coming out and saying anything definite, just coyly hinting that there's something you know that we don't. Are you saying that the US is either allowing all this heroin to flood out of the country, or even actively assisting? I mean, if that's what you're getting at then say so, I'm not going to be offended or anything (as theories go, this is pretty tame stuff compared some of the ideas out there ). But in that case I have to ask, what motive is there for the US government or some shadowy arm of it to in effect be fighting both sides of this war at once? Or at least fighting one side while assisting the other. And please don't just say "money" as if that explains everything; if money is a motive, you need to say who is benefiting, how they're benefiting and how they're influencing US foreign policy and military strategy. Obviously there are lots of private defence contractors involved, but if the whole point of the exercise is to allow them to make money then why not just stage a civil war in some other country that's easier to fight in and not full of uber-tough religious psychopaths?

Originally Posted by usedagain

Their profit margin is probably sufficient, and the problem isn't just illegal drugs. As you mention below, the pharmaceutical companies are keeping up quiet nicely.

Ah, it's Them is it? The mysterious They who get up to all this terrible stuff?

Who are you talking about here? Obviously the profits for the top dogs who run the manufacture and distribution of drugs are vast, that goes without saying. If we're talking about illegal drugs, then the amounts of money spend by governments in attempting to stem the flow of drugs is also huge. This is the key point: in a developed country where drugs are in high demand (the UK, the USA...) the illegal drug trade costs the government huge sums of money.

Now morally I don't think the average board member or major shareholder of a big pharmaceuticals firm is necessarily any superior to your average street drug kingpin*, in terms of their overall effects on people's lives and the way they make money from this. There is however a big economic difference in that legitimate companies contribute to the treasury through tax, which criminal gangs obviously do not.

Originally Posted by usedagain

To explain this, you'd need to get a lot of background beyond this thread. Search for Eugenics, watch the movie posted in this thread, "Ring of Power" for starters.

Oh please, I know what eugenics is, don't talk to me like I'm an idiot. How is eugenics relevant to this discussion? Obviously race is involved, particularly in the US, where for instance a single gram of crack cocaine is treated as harshly in sentencing as a hundred grams of powder coke - and of course the average crack user is much more likely to be black than the average powder user. Hard not to see some prejudice there in the minds of the people who drafted and passed that law, of course. Plus all sorts of prejudice and hysteria that lead to drug prohibition in the first place a century ago. But eugenics? Um, does it look to you like black people in the US are in danger of dying out any time soon?

Again, if that's not what you mean, they be more explicit in your answers.

Originally Posted by usedagain

Be careful about classifying drug users as not having education. I would argue that the most intelligent people in the world have been drug users (maybe not abusers) Lots of creative people have used drugs...most of my favorites, anyways. I don't know Burroughs, but i love Edgar allen poe and lewis carrol,not to mention almost ALL of the musicians I've loved.

Oh come on, you can do better than that. I said "people with severe drug problems", not "drug users" FFS! So I'm not talking about recreational users (which, shock horror, includes SWIM) or even all drug addicts, since addicts include high-flying doctors who help themselves to medical-grade morphine, professionals of many kinds who do coke all the time and even bored housewives who find themselves relying a bit too much on that codeine they got for a sprained ankle. I'm talking about the poor homeless bugger I saw yesterday who asked me to buy him some candles when I asked if I could get him something to eat from the shop he was sat outside in the pissing rain. Not much heat you can get from a candle, just enough to warm a spoonfull of smack I'd guess. There are a hell of a lot of people like him in my country and yours and most of them come from a poor, neglectful, abusive or otherwise disadvantaged background. Which is not to say they're stupid, of course, but it's not a background conducive to a great education. The guy I talked about earlier is pretty unlikely to have gone to a prestigious private school.

What I'm saying is that a stereotype I've come across in this thread and elsewhere on DF is that of the misunderstood psychedelic genius, the consumptive opium-addled romantic poet, the acid-fried maverick rockstar, all those stock characters. Of course real-life examples of these stereotypes have existed and do exist, and many of them came to a sticky end in which drugs played some part. But it's delusional in the extreme to imagine that the average destitute drug fuck-up is there because he's some dangerous 'free thinker' who's been screwed over by The Man. Don't get me wrong, people who end up in that situation have almost invariably been screwed over in one way or another, but not because they were singled out as a threat to the status quo and victimised.

A mate of mine got talking to a busker the other day who was completely illiterate. He was English, so it's not like he couldn't speak the language or had just arrived from some war-torn African republic. That's the kind of the thing I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by usedagain

And do you know just how many people there are now who are addicted to drugs, illegal or not? it is mind-boggling. Of course they are likely to be from dysfunctional families, aren't most people?

Well that's a moot point, and a pretty facile one if I may say so. Of course there is no ideal 'functional' familiy, but all the same, my parents never starved me or beat me until my ribs broke, you know what I'm saying? Some people - a hell of a lot of people - aren't as lucky as me. If I were in that position, something that made me forget all about it and feel nice for a couple of hours at ten quid a pop would probably look pretty appealing. I don't mean to imply that people have no choice; obviously plenty of people from deprived backgrounds don't end up as drug addicts, but I would bet money there's a demonstrable correlation. Wealthier people, for one thing, can afford private therapy and rehab and take time off work to recuperate if they get badly hooked on something - or at least will probably have wealthy parents, or a sibling or a partner or whatever, to pay for it.

Originally Posted by usedagain

"May have facilitated?" Check the history. The pharmaceutical companies are definitely complicit. They have lobbyist....They are in it with the government. May it is no an over-arching global conspiracy. Maybe it is just different cells operating in individual greed, but they also seem to work together......Watch for this...They do work together for common interest.
Conspiracy is often not the best word to use for a lot of events....I'm thinking of those which are true but just not widely known about . . ; As Bush said, "Let us not tolerate wild conspiracy theories....." What's he afraid of?

Don't be afraid of the truth. You make good points. I think you'd be surprised if you dig a little deeper

I'm not afraid of the truth, I'm just wary of chasing phantoms when people with the energy and courage to stand up to injustice have so many real and immediate causes they could be throwing their energy behind instead.


*not that pharmaceuticals can't bring enormous benefits to sick people - just that the industry as a whole is incredibly lucrative and powerful and, to say the least, not necessarily motivated by an altruistic desire to help people

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good points contributing to discussion
	Admirable patience here

[g666d]

Right. I'm up to video 6 of that link, and it does present an interesting plethora of facts. will keep posted when i get to 20.
routemaster i do recommend watching if you haven't already.

so @ video 19 and get "This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions" ... bollocks, was interesting bit... they talking how rothchilds financed hitler...
btw this stuff is all as believable as anything i learned at school....

@23 and i think they introduce drugs now...
well they (whoever made this video) don't say too much about it, except they point out how taliban burned poppy crops after US imposed trade sanctions (retaliation!), and were 'rewarded' for their efforts (43 million USD). Video implies money was given by NWOers because they knew funds would create further turmoil in middle east, which is good for their plans of world domination (stemming from the ancient pharaohs, no less.)
(they do say more just i can't recollect so well, they mention smuggling heroin back to us in body bags(vietnam) and other documented hypocrisy, video focuses more on political and economic controls, and generic evil of leaders)
Swim gives this account of history as much credit as any other he has been told,
many questions in life have no good answer, why war?
why starvation?
why exploitation?
why places like dachau?
inbred royalty with pathological mind-disease (heh spucky i steal your engklish ) is as good reason as any.

Swim can understand how heroin trade benefit many, and other illicit substance. Benefit group seeking world control. Demonization of substance is good too, can marginalize fellow humans and get people good and used to making stupid value judgments.
Is key to have internal disruption, and trust in authority. Even general paranoia is good thing. Debt enslavement is nice.

Swim think this world control group forget about biology. Believes technology will evolve faster than they can control, and artificial consciousness (or maybe mass-networked consciousness) will defeat them. Maybe.

swim kinda scared of the mindless drone armies (yes americans i talk about you, and others of infallible dogma)

swim feel this murderous life is pointless and soulless. If there was a god i would not like him/her/it. but swim thinks this puppet portrayed as creator is worse, and followers less than soulless.

Swim like this video though
getting offtopic, but this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-paradise.html is kinda scary...

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good recap.!
	i agrea that America wrote the book on demoralized society but to make it work for them they need to spread its cancerou...

[Routemaster Flash]

OK, I'll try and make time to watch at least some of this film tomorrow.

[zodd, man.]

there is no right or wrong answer hear because all of this can only be speculation based on correlations swims made during swims passing thoughts.

he has occasionally come to the conclusion that our governments are in some way the beneficiaries of a doped up society. Democracy is the belief in freedom. it is a tool that prevents revolution for the people because it makes them believe there is no reason for it. They are free so there for there is no reason to justify revolution. The drugs laws could be vue’d in much the same way. if you wanted to persuade some one to do something you wouldn’t tell them to do it. That would get you no whereat all. with most people thinking you’re a an oppressive wanker. no what you would do is put it right under there nose 24 7 while telling them the exact opposite. all the while subtly glorifying it in all forms of media. thus creating a culture far too indulged in there own sense pleasures too care what the fuck is going on in there world. simes pretty sure that there object is to kill off all enlightenment and self betterment so that more and more people are susceptible to there flashing light slavery box .

or maybe ive just goten up and i need a coffee.

[usedagain]

Routemaster Flash: You've made many good points. I think we've gotten a bit off topic in some areas (internet communication is difficult sometimes). I think we are in the same area with fine lines of confusion. I'm not completely clear on all of this stuff. Some things stand out clearly as being an affront to the American (or UK) people. It's right in our faces and no one seems to notice.

I don't have time to respond to the whole discussion now, but will add this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by usedagain
More herion is coming out of there now than before the war...wonder who is doing that.


RougeMaserFlash: I would hazard a guess at highly sophisticated and ruthless criminal networks; they usually do the trick quite effectively. More heroin is being produced and exported because of the utter chaos that followed the invasion (not that Afghanistan was exactly a model of an orderly society before the invasion, of course) and because of an ideological change of tack by the Taliban whereby they've decided it's perfectly OK fund themselves by exporting drugs because it's only going to end up in the veins of filthy infidels (or those decadent heretics in Iran!) anyway, and if it harms Western societies then so much the better.

You've phrased that question in a way that's very characteristic of people peddling conspiracy theories - you're not explicitly coming out and saying anything definite, just coyly hinting that there's something you know that we don't. Are you saying that the US is either allowing all this heroin to flood out of the country, or even actively assisting? I mean, if that's what you're getting at then say so, I'm not going to be offended or anything (as theories go, this is pretty tame stuff compared some of the ideas out there ).

UsedAgain: I didn' mean to be coy. And i"m not peddleing anything. I have nothing to profit. Why you are so upset in interesting, though. I am definitely implying that the US is involved in the heroin trade from Afganistan. I know people who were involved in transporting heroine from vietnam to the US in military planes in body bags. Who's involved? I don't know. I just know that somebody is involved of high rank. I have been in the military and this kind of activity can't happen without rank.

We are on the same side here.

usedagain added 16 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by g666d

swim kinda scared of the mindless drone armies (yes americans i talk about you, and others of infallible dogma)

swim feel this murderous life is pointless and soulless. If there was a god i would not like him/her/it. but swim thinks this puppet portrayed as creator is worse, and followers less than soulless.

Swim like this video though
getting offtopic, but this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-paradise.html is kinda scary...

Us Americans are scared of the mindless drone armies, too. . . Americans do not necessarily represent the American government, or vise versa.

"this puppet portrayed as creator is worse, and followers less than soulless." I've never heard it said better. I wrote off god a long time ago. It's up to you/us.

Glad you like the video. I one part doens't work, it's on Youtube or do a searcy on ovguide.com

[g666d]

^yup, sry about the american slander... most of what i know is from media, ie youtube comments and sitcoms, there are many brilliant americans for sure...

team america pretty much sums up what i don't like, but many european horrors unconscionable too,
is hard that this oppressing advertising media has so much say in how people choose to do things. But is whole art/life question...

swim a little drunk, will leave it at that

sorry for off topic

[usedagain]

No problem. Swim writes while intoxicated more than I'd like to admit! Noting I say is meant to be personal...I just get upset with these issues. Don't mean to come across as a smart ass. It's my real life friends that frustrate me. Most don't even want to talk about these things.

Chomsky has some good stuff about American imperialism, if you're interested:

Search for "Chomsky imperialism". at video.google....the one at Boston U. He's hard to follow. I have to listen more than once to catch what he's saying sometimes.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

Some questions then:

1) How does keeping drugs illegal "contribute massive amounts of money"? Billions of dollars are spent every year around the world to fund the 'war on drugs'. It costs insane amounts of money to keep people in prison. Then there's all the government-funded recovery programmes, drug 'education' (whatever you think of the truthfulness or effectiveness of it)...how is this making governments money? If they wanted to use drugs to make money, they would legalise them and rake in unimaginable amounts of revenue through tax (like they do with alcohol and tobacco). No-one has yet reasonably explained this "free slave labour" idea - there's no way some lags sewing mailbags could possibly constitute labour with a value greater than a small fraction of the cost of keeping them in jail. Never mind the cost of putting them on trial in the first place.

2) The vast majority of people do not take illegal drugs. The vast majority of drug users are not crackheads or junkies. If, for some nefarious reason, a government wanted to keep people addicted to hard illegal drugs, they're not succeeding too well.

3) What value is there, when you really get down to it, is there in having lots of people hooked on drugs? Drugs that are produced by criminal gangs, which cost governments instead of contributing to them. The only possible answer I can see is that governments consist entirely of moustache-twirling supervillains who simply get off on inflicting misery on the population. Which is a pretty infantile and unhelpful view of how governments work and what motivates the people who make them up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not cheerleading them: just calling for a bit of realism when talking about why they do what they do.

4) I would guess that the majority of people who end up with severe drug problems are dysfunctional people from dysfunctional backgrounds, often with not much in the way of education...not exactly future Nobel laureates, as harsh as that may sound. William Burroughs may have been a junky, but not every junky is William Burroughs, you know?

As far as drug-related conspiracies go, I would say the pharmaceuticals industry is a much better subject for discussion than the illegal drug trade. Though of course there are certain events such as the Iran/Contra affair where government agencies may have facilitated trade in illegal drugs - but I don't think this is part of some over-arching global conspiracy.

How does the WOD contribute massive amounts of money.........
OK, first, consider anti-drug charities, DARE and all that lame shit, where does that money go? Towards PSAs that have been the same since swim was in high school? And yes, prison is big business, to think otherwise is to have your head up your ass. Yes, it costs a lot to keep someone in prison, but that cost is covered and then some by state and federal prison funding and the slave labor made from prisoners.

The governments doesn't care if the drugs people are addicted to are legal or illegal. They would be just as happy if swiywe were all strung out on alcohol, tobacco and pharms as heroin, crack and coke.

3. See above

4. Not every junkie is WSB indeed, but in swim's experience its the more intelligent of people he associates with that end up with needles in their arms, swim included. There needs to be studies into what lure addiction has for the intelligent and creative, its a real link.

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by EyesOfTheWorld

How does the WOD contribute massive amounts of money.........
OK, first, consider anti-drug charities, DARE and all that lame shit, where does that money go? Towards PSAs that have been the same since swim was in high school? And yes, prison is big business, to think otherwise is to have your head up your ass. Yes, it costs a lot to keep someone in prison, but that cost is covered and then some by state and federal prison funding and the slave labor made from prisoners.

OK, this is all reasonable - I guess the point I should have made is that to say "the WOD contributes massive amounts of money" is meaningless unless you say who it contributes to. It's undeniably big business, that much is obvious.

Originally Posted by EyesOfTheWorld

The governments doesn't care if the drugs people are addicted to are legal or illegal. They would be just as happy if swiywe were all strung out on alcohol, tobacco and pharms as heroin, crack and coke.

Um. Tell you what, why don't you do an experiment: next time you see a cop (who is, obviously, an agent and representative of government), ask him if he can point you in the direction of the nearest pharmacy. Then the next time you see a cop, ask him if he knows where you can score some crack.

I guarantee you will encounter two quite difference responses.

Originally Posted by EyesOfTheWorld

There needs to be studies into what lure addiction has for the intelligent and creative, its a real link.

We could probably argue this point round and round in circles, but I think we should be very wary of romanticising addiction. A hell of a lot of people get that way simply from using drugs of one kind or another as an emotional crutch. For every opium-addled poet or tortured junky rock star there are shitloads of people who just have the bad fortune to grow up in a crappy town with lots of crime and social problems and no real job prospects, and a severe drink or drug problem can almost seem like the default lifestyle option.

I'm not saying there isn't perhaps a type of intelligent person who is more at risk of abusing drugs and ending up addicted than the next guy, just that I think poor life chances and general hopelessness are a much more common story, sadly.

[cra$h]

Swim believes that smarter people are more vulnerable to drug use, and there's a couple reasons why.

1. They can justify it. In their mind they can pick out points that make their use rational, while the average intelligent person knows how to draw a line because they listen to what society says.

2. Being all smart isn't really all that great. It's hard to talk to people because you don't wanna lower yourself, and at the same time don't wanna seem like a smart ass. When you get high, people think on the same level, and what a great way to socialize if everyone's on the same page. Plus people under the influence are more willing to listen to your far out ideas

3. Smart people will use drugs to become smarter. Freud's done this, a lot of people endeavored on on psychedelic journeys to reach a higher consciousness, and speed will help someone push their high limits even further.

4. A lot of smart people are lonely/depressed. And what better cure than some dope?

It takes a specific kind of person, but it's generally the people who are too smart for their own good and being smart as well as adventurous. Swim can vouch for this theory, as he's a victim himself

[Spucky]

Imo. it is very easy to create a Society where People feel lonely, desperate unsatisfied and unhappy, Drug-Addiction is not related to the IQ.

I have Material that shows that the majority of Drug-Abuser (Heroin) are low educated, ca. 75%, but that is just "a Statistic".
And shows up only the People who are looking for a medical Treatment.
(afar. in the beginning of this Thread already mentioned.)

Why "The Puppeteers" created a social environment where it`s logical that more and more People use illegal, as well as legal Drugs?

How Drug-Addiction look alike on the Trikont?
What kind of interest is there, because it can`t be Money!
Is in "Evil-Country`s" like Iran, Pakistan, Palestine the Drug-Abuse significant higher than in the so called "Free World"?

What "We" can do against it?
How we can reclaim the Streets for "our" needs?

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by cra$h

When you get high, people think on the same level, and what a great way to socialize if everyone's on the same page.

I disagree with this entirely. When SWIM and many of friends are high, they often have all sorts of really in-depth conversations about lots of different and sometimes quite subtle issues. Not to sound big-headed, but that's just what SWIwe like to do. OTOH, someone who's not very clever and not particularly interested in what you might call 'academic' or 'intellectual' ideas isn't going to turn into Socrates just because they've smoked a couple of spliffs. Some drugs can be used to open up new ways of thinking, but I don't think they "make people clever(er)".

And I'm still not comfortable with this idea of really clever people being more prone to addiction than the average person; smart people usually have better career prospects that they don't want to throw away, and may have better impulse control than less clever people. Note that this is just a massive generalisation based on SWIM's experiences, but he thinks it's probably broadly true. Also, some clever people may be more likely to experiment with drugs, but that's a different thing from getting addicted to them and having them take over your life.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

Um. Tell you what, why don't you do an experiment: next time you see a cop (who is, obviously, an agent and representative of government), ask him if he can point you in the direction of the nearest pharmacy. Then the next time you see a cop, ask him if he knows where you can score some crack.

I guarantee you will encounter two quite difference responses.



.

This is true, in the case of an individual cop. SWIM is speaking of the higher-ups/powers that be types, not of your average beat cop.

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by EyesOfTheWorld

This is true, in the case of an individual cop. SWIM is speaking of the higher-ups/powers that be types, not of your average beat cop.

But has that cop decided, off his own bat, that crack is bad and that people who buy, sell or use it should be punished? Of course not: he acts that way because it is encoded in federal law that crack, and all the other illegal drugs, are Very Bad Indeed. It's the "higher-ups" who make the laws in the first place, right? Come on, this is hardly groundbreaking stuff.

The idea that illegal drugs, on the one hand, and pharms/booze/cigarettes on the other are somehow equivalent or in the same category as far as the ruling elite is concerned is demonstrably ridiculous.

[usedagain]

Wouldn't money be the common denominator?

Reputation Comments on this post:

What does that even mean though? Be more specific! Verging on a pointless post.

[shivakiva2112]

As for the "smarter people use more drugs" debate, I think it's important to draw a distinction between intelligence and intellectuality. Intelligence is difficult to define, but it's something like ability to achieve goals in a variety of familiar and novel situations. Intellectuality is a cognitive style and is pecular to the individual. Two people may be equally intelligent but have very different cognitive styles.

I would argue that intellectuality is related to drug use insofar as more intellectual personalities are more likely to question rules and to seek novelty. But such a trend may only be evident in certain sub-populations (middle-upper SES folks of average-above average intelligence in Western countries).

[usedagain]

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

The idea that illegal drugs, on the one hand, and pharms/booze/cigarettes on the other are somehow equivalent or in the same category as far as the ruling elite is concerned is demonstrably ridiculous.

money being the common denominator in regards to illegal drugs and legal drugs benefiting those in control (govt., corporations). My thoughts might run ahead of me, but I was thinking of the profit being gained from govt. run cocaine and heroine...and profit being made from the pharmaceuticals (including the vaccines and h1n1)

[Spucky]

If "Intellectuals" use Drugs to fight resignation it will be a kind of surrender,
and here we are on the Spot- this is what they want!

But are this People real Intellectuals, because it`s not logical to use Drugs in this case, real smart People try to change the System!

@ usedagain,
many Times i ask myself: Why the NWO. need more and more Money, at least they have to know that a Buck is only a piece of Paper without any Value!

It must be a kind of neurotic behavior?

[usedagain]

Money is a way to power. Why does a tyrant want to be a tyrant? I think they are sociophatic and unable to see clearly...

There is a very good talk on youtube by alan watt ...search for Alan watt on culture and drugs 2" He talks about a lot of interesting things..from the Beatles to drugs and food being used throughout history for control.

[D.T.]

The drugs problem has very simple solution. If existed law allows drugs’ victims to sue their dealers for caused damages and claim compensation or at least expenses for ongoing treatment, (as very powerful tobacco companies already pay); and if only one in ten victims decides to take advantage of such law, entire network of drag-dealers & traffickers will be disintegrated and vanish in few years. This business will become very risky and bankrupt by definition. Apparently this is not the case. There is no such legislation and is very unlikely to be introduced in foreseeable future due to very simple reason.

Imagine world without this well oiled, big washing-machine, laundering billions every year. Do you believe such huge black-market, people who profit of it will allow such legislation to be introduced? Numerous “arguments” of “bridge human rights” of dealers, “undermining democracy” sponsorships to political parties and leaders, lobbyist, etc. will be employed to prevent such legislation.

I don’t believe that existed drugs problem is a part of New World Order strategy. It is side-effect of politico-economical system called capitalism, as many others similar global and national problems. The capitalism is very efficient in making money and creating wealth. Unfortunately the capitalism also creates misery and suffering in unimaginable scale for millions and destroys the very fabric of society – morality. In my view this system eventually will collapse, perhaps in the next 20 years and perish as all previous economic systems. However this will be the final solution for nowadays drugs problem and other “side-effects”.

Reputation Comments on this post:

a very smart Input and a great Idea!

[johnnyyen]

SWIM Has read the OP'S's and sees worthy points on both sides'.what SWIM thinks of the 'war on drugs' is that it is not being fought with conviction,billions of pounds/dollars are being poured into agency budgets to stem the flow of drugs yet the drugs still flow west and east without pause..
SWIM thinks that given troops have had Afghanistan on lock down for years now then the smack hitting his hometown daily has to be facilitated in some way..
if drug use was in some way halted in the near future there are a great many people involved in the drug treatment industry whether prisons,treatment centres and 'substitute' manufacturers who would be out of work within weeks..
the pharma...industry makes many millions out of its remedies ad 'cures' yearly,what would they do without this need for their product?..who would fill the new private prisons without each new crop of convicted users>,,who would staff them without inmates..?
the whole mega industry of drug prevention,cure and treatment/punishment enforcement carries its own momentum,expanding each year in every direction,with top bosses,shareholders and directors drawing large bonuses out of it...
in SWIMS opinion the drugs war was not designed to be won,just substained...

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by johnnyyen

SWIM thinks that given troops have had Afghanistan on lock down for years now

Are you joking? This couldn't possibly be further from the truth. Afghanistan has the troops on lockdown! Coalition forces are getting massacred left right and centre, the president was returned after a thoroughly fraudulent election with a pitiful turnout that pisses on the word "democracy", and even if some order is ever brought to this poor bastard of a country, the Taliban won't care because they'll probably control the whole of Pakistan by that time.

"...had Afghanistan on lock down for years...", Jesus...