Dose - test

[Issmortor]

I'm sure this has been asked before, and I searched the site but couldn’t find anything, so I apologize for if this was specifically asked and answered, but I couldn’t locate it…So here is something that I wanted to add for discussion purposes, and possibly it can spark someone’s mind at to figuring out a more accurate theory, if this one is not accurate. I do however want to preface the entire post by saying that:

None of this should be used as advice for self medicating, they are just estimated/guess theories that I’m putting on the table for discussion.

SWIM was wondering, what is the general ongoing oxycodone content while taking Oxycontin (as directed). SWIM used to be able to take a 10mg Percocet and be oh so content with life. But then he had some major injury (a story for another day), and by the time he got out of the hospital, was on a monthly regimen of 120 ct. Percocet 10mg’s and 10 ct. Fentanyl 25mcg/hr. And he was getting no euphoria unless he popped at least 3 Percs. Not to mention, over the past few months since SWIMs been out, the doc has dropped him down to 90 ct. Perc 5mg’s, and the 10 25mcg patches. At this point, SWIM has to be off the patch for at least a day, and not having had taken any oxy for at least 48 hours, or course feeling sickly/icky/nasty WdS, and then pop about 30 mg oxycodone, and this allows him to enjoy a high like he felt back before the injury with just a Perc 10. But this only lasts for about 2 hours, if that, where as the 10mg before used to last a full 4hrs of floating euphoria.
Anyway, he was thinking about discussing with my doctor switching over to Oxycontin rather than the patches, keep the breakthrough Percs the same for now, and see how it goes. So, of course as always, SWIM did his extensive research. This forum alone did help a bit, but nothing with the specific calculations he was looking for. So he did eventually come across a few sites with a few charts.
And after thinking for a while, reviewing the non specific information that he had, and after much consideration, having no other sources to go on, thought that he might have come up with a theorized Oxycontin blood/chemical continual dose equation. Now SWIM may be WAY off here, and not know a damn thing about what he’s talking about. But he’s taken Percs in the past, Percs more recent, the patch more recent (which doesn’t really apply to this exact conversation), and has insufflated each of the following recently:
Percocet: Due to the amounts of acetaminophen in the pill, it was required to sit for at least a full 10 minutes, snorting, waiting, swabbing with a wet q-tip to moisten, snorting…repeat until desired effects are reached.
Roxycodone: This was a great discovery. SWIM’s friend (who again, is a [different from the injury] story of his own), gave him a crushed up Roxy 15mg, and, since at the time, he was taking regular Perc doses of 10mg, he snorted half the Roxy first, waited about 5 minutes, and started to feel regular pain relief that would be felt about 30 minutes after swallowing a Perc 10. He waited about 40 minutes, snorted the other ~7.5mg of crushed Roxy and another 5 minutes later, he felt better than before, assumedly because there was still some concentration of the first ~7.5mg in his system. Thus, he came to the conclusion that snorting an equal/slightly less amount of Roxy would produce better effects than swallowing a regular Perc.
Oxycontin: SWIM’s same friend then, every few days over the next few weeks, provided him with varying size lines of Oxycontin. After inquiring of the dose, SWIM would be informed “It’s about 1/8 an OC80 or ¼ an OC40,” thus only being able to speculate as to the exact amount of oxycodone he was insufflating at those times.
Again, SWIM tried to do his research, but for some reason couldn’t find much on the subject. This was surprising, due to the many media reports and studies done on the drug, of course most were just blind naysayers condemning the product. So one day SWIM asked his good friend, “How much oxycodone is in an OC[xx]?” SWIM got the reply that “An OC10 releases 10mg every hour for 10 hours.” SWIM thought about this and realized this must not be right, because if he was taking a quarter of an OC40, he would have been snorting 100mg at once(40*10=400/4=100), which would have defiantly put him off his feet. So, responding thus to his friend, the friend replied with “Oh, no, I meant like an OC40 would be 4mg an hour over 10 hours, meaning an OC10 TOTALS 40mg.” After this [half-assed] attempt to sound like he knew what he was talking about either way, SWIM knew he wasn’t going to get any exactly true information from his friend on the subject. So he tried to do a bit more research on the subject, but again found nothing conclusive.
So here is SWIM’s theorized equation for the ongoing concentration of Oxycodone in the blood x hours after taking an Oxycontin pill:
=(X*0.75) +1
T+1 1mg
T+2 -25% of previous concentration, +1mg,
T+3 -25% of previous concentration, +1mg,
And so on, forever, as per the user is supposed to take 1 every 12 hours (as the manufacturer suggests). And the final calculations would come out to the following chart:

hour    oc10   oc20   oc40   oc80
1        1.00    2.00    4.00    8.00
2        1.75    3.50    7.00    14.00
3        2.31    4.63    9.25    18.50
4        2.73    5.47    10.94  21.88
5        3.05    6.10    12.20  24.41
6        3.29    6.58    13.15  26.30
7        3.47    6.93    13.86  27.73
8        3.60    7.20    14.40  28.80
9        3.70    7.40    14.80  29.60
10      3.77    7.55    15.10  30.20
11      3.83    7.66    15.32  30.65
12      3.87    7.75    15.49  30.99
13      3.90    7.81    15.62  31.24
14      3.93    7.86    15.71  31.43
15      3.95    7.89    15.79  31.57
16      3.96    7.92    15.84  31.68
17      3.97    7.94    15.88  31.76
18      3.98    7.95    15.91  31.82
19      3.98    7.97    15.93  31.86
20      3.99    7.97    15.95  31.90
21      3.99    7.98    15.96  31.92
22      3.99    7.99    15.97  31.94
23      3.99    7.99    15.98  31.96
24      4.00    7.99    15.98  31.97

As you can see, almost immediately after the first 12 hours of inducing, IF following the directed “1 pill every 12 hours”, and IF the pill releases its dose for a full 12 hours, the taker reaches the peak [noticeable] concentration in the body. Therefore if SWIM took an OC40 as directed, after the first 24 hours, meaning by the time that he was going to take his 2nd pill, he would almost already be at a peak concentration of ~16mg, and that would go up so minutely, it wouldn’t even need to be counted. And he would have a continuously relieving opiate dose of ~16mg at any given time to relieve his around-the-clock pain symptoms.
Anyway, here are my few contradictions are here:

1)    From what SWIM understands, as with alcohol, the body wouldn’t release a specific percentage, but rather a specific amount.  If SWIM remembers correctly, the body “burns” an average of ¼ drinks an hour, so if SWIM drank ¼ of a drink over the course of an hour, SWIM would assumedly NEVER get drunk, because the liver can “burn” that dose.  So would the same be for opiates or no?  Would SWIM’s body burn 25% as suggested in the above material, or would it burn X mg an hour?
2)    Taking a single Oxycontin wouldn’t be worth doing recreationally, the only way to recreationally take an Oxycontin by swallowing it, is with a second pill 12 hours after the first, and then right around when SWIM takes that second pill, and he’s at his peak concentration, is when the effect will begin, and from that second pill, the effect will last for the next 12 hours as the second pill releases its effect.

Ok, by any reason, is SWIM making any sense in this? Aside from the obvious flaws in the theory, could this be at all relevant information to those who seek it? And if not, what WOULD be more accurate or relevant theory?
Oxycontin and Fentanyl patches are aimed to do the same thing, which is to release a continuous stream of an equal amount of medicine to relieve the around-the-clock pain.
Here is another dispute between what my theory shows(after looking at the two following charts), and what these two charts state…and one thought, is maybe if SWIM isn’t calculating right, maybe SWIY, and who is good at math, can use some sort of comparison estimate to correct my theory, and provide some correct information to the masses.

Guidelines for converting ONLY from transdermal fentanyl to oxycodone CR
Fentanyl TTS                          Recommended starting dose of oxycodone CR
Dose (μg/h)           Content(mg)          (10 mg q 12 h for each 25 μg/h of fentanyl TTS)
25                           2.5                                          10 mg q 12 h
50                           5.0                                          20 mg q 12 h
75                           7.5                                          30 mg q 12 h
100                         10.0                                        40 mg q 12 h
Source: OxyContin® package insert.14 
NOTE: Do not use these guidelines to convert from oxycodone CR to fentanyl TTS. This conversion is conservative. If it is used to switch from oxycodone CR to fentanyl TTS, the dosage of fentanyl TTS may be overestimated and fentanyl toxicity may occur. 
† Start oxycodone CR 18 h after removing fentanyl TTS patch. Use caution when converting from transdermal fentanyl to oxycodone CR. There is limited clinical experience and no systematic evaluation of this conversion. TTS = Transdermal therapeutic system.
 
Current Analgesic                           Daily Dosage (mg/d)
Oral morphine           60-134         135-224         225-314         315-404
IM/IV morphine         10-22         23-37            38-52           53-67
Oral oxycodone         30-67         67.5-112        112.5-157       157.5-202
IM/IV oxycodone         15-33         33.1-56         56.1-78         78.1-101
Oral codeine             150-447        448-747        748-1047        1048-1347
Oral hydromorphone 8-17              17.1-28         28.1-39         39.1-51
IV hydromorphone    1.5-3.4          3.5-5.6          5.7-7.9          8-10
IM meperidine          75-165          166-278        279-390        391-503
Oral methadone        20-44            45-74            75-104          105-134
IM methadone          10-22            23-37            38-52            53-67
⇓⇓⇓ ⇓ ⇓                             ⇓                             ⇓                             ⇓                             ⇓
Fentanyl Dose          25 mcg/h      50 mcg/h      75 mcg/h      100 mcg/h

Here is SWIM’s contradiction: The official charts (not including mine as official, obviously) say that a 25mcg patch is equal to 30-67mg of oxycodone a day. If each pill of OC equaled the number of mg in its dose title, wouldn’t a 25mcg patch be equal to either:
2 ct. OC20’s = 40mg
2 ct. OC30’s = 60mg
(Both of which range between 30 and 67)

And then, of course, breakthrough pain medicine must be counted separate and in addition, but the discussion isn’t about the BtP or meds to treat it, it’s about finding out exactly how many mg of oxycodone are in an OC[xx] pill.

Anyway, so if 2 OC20’s equaled 40mg of oxycodone and 2 OC30’s equaled 60mg of oxycodone, why would they say a 25mcg patch is only equal to 2 OC10’s a day.

So under this reasoning (and reversing equating the oxycodone to fentanyl conversion chart, even though it says not to so in the subtext), 2 OC10’s equal 30-67mg of oxycodone, therefore each OC10 equals 15-33.5mg of oxycodone. Making the answer to the original question thus:

OC10   =       15-33.5mg___AVG: 24.3mg __/12hours: 2.021
OC20   =       30-66.7_____AVG: 48.4_____/12hours: 4.029
OC40   =       60-133.4____AVG: 96.7_____/12hours: 8.058
OC80   =       120-266.8___AVG: 193.4____/12hours: 16.117

This, if it is correct, would completely alter the original equation to be thus:

         10.0    20.0    40.0    80.0
Hour  2.021  4.029  8.058  16.117
1        2.02    4.029  8.06    16.12
2        3.54    7.05    14.10  28.20
3        4.67    9.32    18.63  37.27
4        5.53    11.02  22.03  44.07
5        6.17    12.29  24.58  49.17
6        6.65    13.25  26.50  52.99
7        7.00    13.96  27.93  55.86
8        7.27    14.50  29.01  58.01
9        7.48    14.91  29.81  59.63
10      7.63    15.21  30.42  60.84
11      7.74    15.44  30.87  61.75
12      7.83    15.61  31.21  62.43
13      7.89    15.73  31.47  62.94
14      7.94    15.83  31.66  63.32
15      7.98    15.90  31.80  63.61
16      8.00    15.95  31.91  63.82
17      8.02    15.99  31.99  63.98
18      8.04    16.03  32.05  64.10
19      8.05    16.05  32.10  64.20
20      8.06    16.06  32.13  64.26
21      8.06    16.08  32.16  64.31
22      8.07    16.09  32.17  64.35
23      8.07    16.09  32.19  64.38
24      8.08    16.10  32.20  64.40
25      8.08    16.10  32.21  64.42
26      8.08    16.11  32.21  64.43
27      8.08    16.11  32.22  64.44
28      8.08    16.11  32.22  64.45
29      8.08    16.11  32.22  64.45
30      8.08    16.11  32.23  64.46
31      8.08    16.11  32.23  64.46
32      8.08    16.11  32.23  64.46
33      8.08    16.11  32.23  64.46
34      8.08    16.12  32.23  64.46
35      8.08    16.12  32.23  64.47
36      8.08    16.12  32.23  64.47

And as you can obviously see with this new calculation, it almost doubles as what was originally considered. But again it comes to the point of how is the oxycodone released compared to how is the drug metabolized?