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  #51  
Old 13-05-2008, 10:31
Laudaphun Gold member Laudaphun is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Something rather interesting regarding one of SWIM's earlier posts and perhaps applicable to other substances considered to be effective subligually such as some benzos... Since the availability of buprenorphine is supposedly much higher when administered as a solution with alcohol as the solvent as opposed to tablet form, SWIM has come to believe that rinsing your mouth out with plain old mouthwash prior to suboxone administration increases it's availability since the alcohol would soak into the tissue in your mouth a bit before you spit it out, taking suboxone immediately thereafter would be very similar to having an alcohol based solution. It should be noted that DO NOT swallow mouth wash as it contains methanol which is poisonous... as opposed to ethanol which SWIM assumes would have been the alcohol of choice for use as a solvent when preparing a suboxone solution. SWIM is still fairly certain that rinsing your mouth out with mouthwash (methanol) or some people even use vodka (ethanol) as mouthwash... SWIM has never really looked into much literature other than what she already posted, so just using herself as a lab rat tested this out and found there to be some truth to it. However, she still has not yet attempted to concoct an alcohol based suspension from the tablets... just prepared the mouth with different substances prior to administration, looking at pH differences using differnent natural acids found in juices and thoroughly rinsing the mouth out prior. SWIM has found better result from an alcohol rinse than by trying to create a more acidic environment via fruit juices as suggested by her dr. While a little extra acidity may help, it's not really noticable. Anyone else that feels like trying some form of an alcohol rinse, SWIM would be pleased to hear your results and opinions... As well as any other pre-administration techniques you feel increase absorption or have no affect.

It is also interesting that while most benzos are not water soluble, sparingly soluble at best, this may also assist in sublingual administration of benzos as well... Not tested, just a hypothesis.
  #52  
Old 13-05-2008, 22:30
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laudaphun View Post
Something rather interesting regarding one of SWIM's earlier posts and perhaps applicable to other substances considered to be effective subligually such as some benzos... Since the availability of buprenorphine is supposedly much higher when administered as a solution with alcohol as the solvent as opposed to tablet form, SWIM has come to believe that rinsing your mouth out with plain old mouthwash prior to suboxone administration increases it's availability since the alcohol would soak into the tissue in your mouth a bit before you spit it out, taking suboxone immediately thereafter would be very similar to having an alcohol based solution.
How are the subs being directly effected by said mouth rinsing method? SWIM is curious as to method of injestion. Is SWIY sucking on pill? Dissolving under toung?
  #53  
Old 14-05-2008, 07:45
Laudaphun Gold member Laudaphun is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

just dissolving under the tongue as normal
with the idea that there are lingering amounts of alcohol remaining after you spit out your alcohol, or even swallow it if ethanol, especially under the tongue more would get stuck there afterwards... SWIM used to drink a beer before taking a suboxone... and you could tell from the lingering taste of he alcohol that some was still presentin the mouht
  #54  
Old 07-07-2008, 18:22
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

SWIM thinks from about 20 years experience with buprenorphine that the increase in bioavailability SWIY's would gain would not be substantial enough beacuase of the kind of buzz that bupe creates, which is not really a sharp ascending 'high' as such, rather a reasonable 'elevation', followed by many hours of very steady feelings of, well...niceness, oh, and usually a fair bit of the ol' opioid motivation.

Messing about with the form is next to pointless almost in SWIM's opinion.
  #55  
Old 09-08-2008, 05:35
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

What would be the intramuscular BA of oxycodone ?
  #56  
Old 27-08-2008, 21:04
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Oh wow. that's interesting to see that oral oxycodone has a higher BA then snorted. so one should just drop say 60mgs or oxy instead of snorting it?...
  #57  
Old 27-08-2008, 22:52
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagisil View Post
Oh wow. that's interesting to see that oral oxycodone has a higher BA then snorted. so one should just drop say 60mgs or oxy instead of snorting it?...
wow iv'e never heard of that....is there any other drugs that have a higher oral BA than the other routes of administration?
  #58  
Old 28-08-2008, 08:48
Vagisil Vagisil is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

hmmm, i really don't think there are many.
  #59  
Old 28-08-2008, 09:32
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Do more research before jumping to a conclusion. Benzodiazepines, for instance, show greater bio-availability taken orally than by insufflation - most of them. Keep looking.
  #60  
Old 11-01-2009, 21:51
b(x)anned b(x)anned is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Heroin doesn't have a value for IV? Other than snorting, that is the most common route as far as someone who would be me if I was allowed to be is concerned.
  #61  
Old 11-01-2009, 21:58
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

IV = 100% bioavailability
  #62  
Old 04-03-2009, 08:32
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by b(x)anned View Post
Heroin doesn't have a value for IV? Other than snorting, that is the most common route as far as someone who would be me if I was allowed to be is concerned.

IV is 100% BA

RadioHead added 15 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

Also, would the BA of say.. codeine change if it has been Cold Water Extracted and drank as a fluid as compared to taking a normal tablet?

Last edited by RadioHead; 04-03-2009 at 08:32. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #63  
Old 17-03-2009, 03:59
Laudaphun Gold member Laudaphun is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioHead View Post
IV is 100% BA

RadioHead added 15 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

Also, would the BA of say.. codeine change if it has been Cold Water Extracted and drank as a fluid as compared to taking a normal tablet?
I doubt it. It needs to be converted to morphine by the liver so a solution would just speed up the absorption as opposed to increase the BA. Of course others may know a lot more about codeine than SWIM as it is not common like it is in say, neighboring countries. I heard rumors that tylenol 1 could be purchased OTC in some states, but I was never able to find anything to support that it was anything other than a rumor. Actually, you what codeine would be more effective with something to allow the liver to covert more of it to morphine...
  #64  
Old 23-03-2009, 08:23
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Most codeine potentiators also potentate APAP.
  #65  
Old 31-07-2009, 05:35
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

woulda been nice to see more smoked bio-availabilities. other than that, nice post.
  #66  
Old 03-08-2009, 01:52
Herbal Healer 019 Herbal Healer 019 is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Does any1 know the nasal bioavailabilty of DiHydroCodeine?

has anyone ever heard of some1 snorting DHC with more success then poppin them?
  #67  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:07
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Snorting should not be done with DHC, something to do with a massive histamine release or pulmonary endema or something. Basically it isn't safe so shouldn't be done. I could be wrong though.
  #68  
Old 02-09-2009, 05:36
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

From a paper I recently uploaded -----> Oral diacetylmorphine (heroin) yields greater morphine bioavailability than oral morphine: bioavailability related to dosage and prior opioid exposure


Apparently, once addicted to opiates, your body not only craves them, it also becomes more efficient at absorbing them.


• In opioid-dependent people, bioavailability of morphine from oral doses of diacetylmorphine is also 37% higher than that of oral morphine.

• Morphine bioavailability is two and 1.5 times higher in chronic users than in opioid-naive subjects after low oral doses of diacetylmorphine or morphine, respectively.

• Oral absorption of morphine from diacetylmorphine is dose dependent, i.e. bioavailability increases with diacetylmorphine dose.



"Morphine bioavailability was considerably higher in chronic users [diacetylmorphine 45.6% (95% confidence interval 40.0, 51.3), morphine 37.2% (30.1, 44.3)] than in naive subjects [diacetylmorphine 22.9% (16.4, 29.4), morphine 23.9% (16.5, 31.2)] after low oral doses (48.5 µmol) of either diacetylmorphine or morphine. Morphine clearance was similar in both groups. Moreover, oral absorption of morphine from diacetylmorphine was found to be dose dependent, with bioavailability reaching 64.2% (55.3, 73.1) for high diacetylmorphine doses (1601 µmol)."



This basically suggests that if a person was opiate dependent and going to consume a relatively large dose (likely considering effect of tolerance), it would be much more worthwhile to orally consume heroin than it would be for someone with little history of opiate use consuming a smaller dose. Also, it would be more advantageous for the latter person to take morphine sulfate, whereas for the opiate dependent person the heroin would actually be more bioavailable orally than the morphine would be, so they would be better off trading any morphine tablets they have in exchange for heroin (assuming they can get relatively pure diacetylmorphine and assuming they wish to take it orally).

I don't know if these findings hold for other opiates or other methods of consumption (now that would be quite interesting). If the increased bioavailability resulting from experience level and/or a larger size dose only applies to oral consumption, then it would appear that you might actually get more bang for your buck with oral consumption than with smoking. Of course the onset and duration of effects differ to a large extent between the methods of ingestion, so personal preference will probably still be a deciding factor. Its something people may want to consider though.
  #69  
Old 28-02-2010, 21:24
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

so tums would increase the bioavalability?
  #70  
Old 28-02-2010, 21:32
Herbal Healer 019 Herbal Healer 019 is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillinwill View Post
wow iv'e never heard of that....is there any other drugs that have a higher oral BA than the other routes of administration?
Hydrocodone & also codeine
  #71  
Old 01-03-2010, 13:36
malsat Gold member malsat is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

I'm skeptical of those hydromorphone numbers... SWIM found 8mg oral (crushed time release) did nothing detectable while 1-2mg intranasal was quite powerful.
  #72  
Old 01-03-2010, 22:03
mbarnes0 mbarnes0 is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Quote:
so tums would increase the bioavalability?
No not Tums or other calcium antacid products, and if they do happen to effect BA I don't think it would be that noticeable. This doesn't mean that Tums or other antacids are ineffective as potentiators. Antacids lower the pH level in the stomach, thus making it more basic. The idea is to get the pill through the stomach (where it is difficult for the drug to be absorbed into the blood stream) and into the GI tract (where the drug is easily absorbed) as fast as possible. This means the onset time of the drug is decreased.
I believe that cimetidine (Tagament) effects lots of opiate's BA by blocking a good bit of the liver's first-pass metabolism process and letting more of the drug into the blood stream.

Quote:
wow iv'e never heard of that....is there any other drugs that have a higher oral BA than the other routes of administration?
I know morphine has shit for nasal BA compared to other ROAs. I would think that pretty much anything that is very water soluable would have a higher oral BA than nasal and possibly rectal.

Quote:
I'm skeptical of those hydromorphone numbers... SWIM found 8mg oral (crushed time release) did nothing detectable while 1-2mg intranasal was quite powerful.
Did SWIY have Palladone, Hydromorph Contin, or Jurnista?

SWIM has never had any form of hydromorphone ER, but lots of IR. He is an IV user but remembers eating and snorting them. He can't recall there being much noticeable difference between oral/nasal to him aside from the comeup time.
Its wild how people can experience different effects from the same drug. There is probably lots more behind it but I know one cause. The pharmacologic makeup of the human body has been shown that it can vary from person to person.
  #73  
Old 06-03-2011, 05:47
Veksul Veksul is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forthesevenlakes View Post
Codeine
Oral: 60-90%
Rectal: about 90%
Checked the whole thread and nobody mentioned yet that codeine may have a very different effect if taken rectally, being that it is a pro-drug. The enzyme CYP2D6 in the liver converts Codeine into Morphine, which is where the drug gets the majority of it's effects. Of course, only ~10% is metabolized into Morphine, as it is also metabolized by other enzymes into a few other metabolites, though I am not sure how active they are (other main metabolites include: codeine-6-glucuronide, norcodeine, NC-glucuronide, and normorphine)
  #74  
Old 14-12-2011, 14:12
MadOne MadOne is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

hi all swims mate is on morphine mst continus 100mg tabs and has just knoticed the wopping 70% rate for rectal use personally i dont think its even quite 40% orally more like 35. but anyways would swims mate get twice as high off his mst's rectally rather than swallowing them ? one drug missing of here i would like to know what its oral bio avalability is dipipanone ( Diconal ) merry xmas all
  #75  
Old 24-05-2012, 05:13
WOODCHUCK WOODCHUCK is offline
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Re: Opiate Bioavailabilities

A little help please, I've been searching for the rectal bioavailability and best means of administration for oxymorphone for about an hour now.....could someone please point me in the right direction

Much appreciated

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