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Downers and sleeping pills Anxiety Meds, Sleeping Pills and Skeletal Muscle Relaxants

 
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  #26  
Old 19-08-2007, 06:02
eltimmy eltimmy is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

When SWIM was using these, SWIM preferred zolpidem over zopiclone:

a) zolpidem has selectivity for the supposed target of hypnotics compared to zopiclone, which has more of the properties of a regular benzodiazepine
b) relative to zopiclone, zolpidem is much less habit-forming (taken at prescribed doses)
c) zopiclone's half-life -- 6 hours -- is too long, causing SWIM to feel dulled well into the next day. The Ambien CR formulation is approximately 2.6 hours half-life. Perfect for SWIM's purposes
d) No shitty taste in the mouth from zolpidem.
e) Zolpidem in studies produced a normal sleep architecture, whereas zopiclone's was a little off. Subjectively, SWIM got nightmares in the latter half of sleep from zopiclone -- SWIM theorizes this is due to GABA rebound (as mentioned above, zopiclone is more promiscuous (that's the neurochemical term ;-)) in the receptors that it effects, and SWIM for various reasons strongly disfavors benzodiazepines).

SWIM no longer uses them as SWIM has been sleeping well for the past few months by maintaining good sleep hygiene as well as a diligent morning aerobic exercise program.
  #27  
Old 19-08-2007, 07:18
Big Fella Big Fella is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Ambien vote from me, prescribed them a few times and they work well enough, they were once stolen by Rambo, who later wrote me a letter telling me that he took four of them and it was a very pleasent experiene.

I was gutted he stole them, but though the letter was a nice touch.
  #28  
Old 25-08-2007, 08:32
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Hello,
I'm a GP and living in Europe (not practising any longer). Please excuse my bad english!
I've been on rohypnol (1-2 mg/evening) for 10 years, and switched to distraneurin (clomethiazole) 2 yrs ago as I thought roh made me feel depressed. To make things worse (I had a terrible hangover during the day following distra (5 caps in the evening)) I started to take both of them (no need to say I am no longer practicing, but mostly because of an accident), roh covering the severe anxiety of distra's hangover during the day - but I felt personality changes (severe depression despite prozac) and wanted to quit the one or the other. The problem is distra makes you feel high with wonderful dreams (well, in my case) and now, trying to get rid of it, I need 6 rohs, antihistamines, tranxilium and alcohol for a 4 hours' sleep - so I think I will come back to distra. Does anybody knows what are long-term side effects of distra? I have severe bleeding gums and wonder if it's not due to it. Anyway.... it's becoming a nightmare for me. zopi, a.s.o., have no more effect (+severe somnambulism at night). Thank you!!!!!
  #29  
Old 25-08-2007, 23:18
wearestardust wearestardust is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Can I ask two questions please? They relate to two of the most recent posts. First, what is the 'CR' formulation of zopiclone? I don't think such a thing is available in UK. The other is, what is Tranxilium? Is it a brand-name for some benzo that we all know, or something else entirely, like clormethiazole (Heminevrin)?
The zopiclone available here is simply Stilnoct, the original made by the inventors (or should I say developers) of zopiclone, Sanofi. It is available in 5 and 10mg strengths, but I never heard of it being suffixed with 'CR' which brings 'Controlled Release' to mind; not something a sleeping aid would usually have! Tranxilium is a brand I have never heard of. Maybe I should google it. Is it a German brand by any chance? And I agree with the previous poster, Indira, that SWIM's opinion of flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) is that it tends to be prescribed for insomnia associated with anxiety problems or night-panics, the 2mg tablets having a distinct anxiolytic effect which can carry through to the next day. Doctors seem increasingly reluctant to prescribe it nowadays. Why, I don't know - it is a very useful sleeper for those with anxiety issues. And they have stopped prescribing the 2mg tablets now altogether; only the 1mg Roche brand is available for docs to prescribe since none of our generic companies here appear to offer flunitrazepam at all in any strength.
WAStardust
  #30  
Old 25-08-2007, 23:31
wearestardust wearestardust is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Sorry, I should have added that in place of flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) doctors are trying to prescribe more of the 'Z' meds; but they are reluctant to prescribe ANY sleeping aid now except in chronic cases, or for short-term problems caused by, for instance, bereavement or a particularly stressful life-event. Also, and I have asked this elsewhere but never got an answer - is it true that flunitrazepam is now not available for doctors to prescribe in the USA? I read that somewhere recently. It can't be anything to do with the so-called 'date-rape' connotations (Rohypnol tablets have an indigo dye in them and are not soluble in drinks, so the 'victim' would notice immediately that their drink had turned a quite dark blue and would be full of grit with a scum on top. Not to mention that the outer coating is a hard gelatinous substance which doesn't dissolve until meeting stomach acid or something!) Only some 2mg flunitrazzies from Central Europe would not leave a drink uncoloured, and even they wouldn't dissolve so that the drinker would not notice that something was wrong. All in all, in the opinion of SWIM, it is one of the most useful sleepers, along with his particular favourite, Flormidal (midazolam).
  #31  
Old 26-08-2007, 08:41
indira3 indira3 is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Hello Wearastardust
tranxilium (sorry, I should have known commercial names are different)))
is clorazepam. In fact, being perhaps less addictive or potent than roh, I might mix roh and tranx (I use tranx instead of clor in order not to get donfused with clomethiazole/heminevrin/distraneurin), plus clormethiazole in order to get a better sleep. I doubt as to being able to reduce dosages with time..... but let's try it this way, for a while, and then taper dosages.
Here in switzerland roh has always been available (roche...), but it's only available now as 1 mg tabs, blue colored. I know distra has been taken off the market in several countries (potentially lethal, as are barbiturates.) I'm a newbie here, but could anybody explain to me the detailed mechanism of action of these drugs on GABA-receptors?? distraneurin acts on it PLUS on its chlor-channel, making it therefore more potent or acting more quickly... but it's quite confusing. I thought neurontin (antiepileptic) could perhaps help in tapering benzos' and distra's dosages....?
  #32  
Old 26-08-2007, 13:06
chrisdahl chrisdahl is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wearestardust View Post
but they are reluctant to prescribe ANY sleeping aid now except in chronic cases, or for short-term problems caused by, for instance, bereavement or a particularly stressful life-event

That's strange,i'm in the UK and went to my docs recently and told him i was struggling to sleep because I had been abusing GHB and Lorazepam/Alprazolam and he wrote me a script for Zolpidem despite me been hospitalized because of a Benzo overdose two months prior

What makes you say that doc's are reluctant to write scripts for Zolpidem? They are very easy to get legitimately
  #33  
Old 26-08-2007, 13:28
indira3 indira3 is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

I wonder if it's not because zolpidem often cause somnambulism and nocturnal hyperphagia (I read an article about it months ago, a problem specific for zolpidem) - that is also why I switched from zolpi to roh, with which I sleep like a baby (combined with chlomethiazole of course); zolpi caused me to get up and take my car to the next chocolate automat during the night, with the result that I often had car scratches or totally damaged tyres the next morning with no memory about it...
  #34  
Old 14-10-2007, 22:27
upperdecker upperdecker is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Ambien never made SWIM tired at all, all it did was make SWIM feel like he was almost tripping. The best sleeping medicine SWIM has come across would definitely be Seroquel. That stuff will knock you out all night.
  #35  
Old 15-10-2007, 06:14
indira3 indira3 is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Seroquel is an a antipsychotic - then you have to find out a psychiatrist who orders it to you (at least in Europe...)- Zolpidem caused me to deambulate and slide in the bachtroom - after which I lost consciousness and, with bloodstains all over, i got up ahd saw I had a double eye hematoma and diplopia - a sign a skull basis fracture. I did recover but I still miss 30% energy and drive, as well as severe memlory loss and concentration impairment. I'll thrive to get zolpidem out of the market. Seroquel is still unknown to me as a S:P. I can stille try try out. Thanks.
  #36  
Old 15-10-2007, 13:30
wearestardust wearestardust is offline
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I believe I made a mistake in one of my above posts; I did not mean ZOPICLONE CR but ZOLPIDEM CR. That's the formulation I haven't seen here. Certainly you can easily get ordinary zolpidem (Stilnoct brand, 5 or 10mg). Another sleeping aid that has helped SWIWAS in the past is the old favourite nitrazepam. 10mg of that should ensure a decent sleep. But as I said before, flunitrazepam and midazolam are difficult to beat in terms of effectiveness.

Addition to above: midazolam is not available in tablet form in the UK and flunitrazepam requires a private prescription, not being available on the National Health Service.

Last edited by Jatelka; 15-10-2007 at 17:05.
  #37  
Old 15-10-2007, 15:56
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

I was reading MIMS (the prescribing reference for the GP) recently and it seems midazolam is available on prescription in the UK, in tablet form. UK doctors really don't like prescribing benzo's anyway.

Taking benzodiazepines for insomnia is not a good idea, they loose thier hypnotic effects quickly, not to mention the withdrawal. Drugs like zolpidem and zopiclone are better options IMO. SWIM is prescribed 7.5mg of zopiclone and finds it effective.

As far as over the counter sleep aids go, diphenhydramide is probably the best and most effective.

Some work for some monkeys, some don't.

Last edited by rocksmokinmachine; 15-10-2007 at 16:07.
  #38  
Old 15-10-2007, 16:19
indira3 indira3 is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

As said before, I first thought zolpidem the best alternative; somehow, suffering each night from somnambulism, and aafter severla sever traumas, the worst having taken place 1 month ago (cerebral commotion with skull fractures and amnesia), I consider it more dangerous than flura/flunitrazepam.
  #39  
Old 15-10-2007, 18:01
Steva Steva is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by upperdecker View Post
Ambien never made SWIM tired at all, all it did was make SWIM feel like he was almost tripping
Amen.
Swim loves the buzz off Ambien.
He was taking 6 during the day for the buzz effect.
Also put stomach asleep so swim lost weight ala phen/Fen.
Swim no longer uses Zolpidem.
A few beers and 1mg gador xanax
will induce swim to sleep.
Swim did take Seconal,Nembutol,Tuinal many years ago
and they were more effective than ambien.
  #40  
Old 24-02-2008, 14:02
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Flunitrazepam is the best sleeping pill SWIM says. Close second either midazolam or triazolam.
  #41  
Old 04-03-2008, 05:12
spa spa is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Ambien does a nice job to stop the constant racing thoughts I have...

... its for lower range insomnia. There are much more powerful chemicals to help you sleep.
  #42  
Old 04-03-2008, 16:05
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Flunitrazepam closely followed by midazolam. Benzodiazepines are the only thing that does it for SWIM these days.
  #43  
Old 05-03-2008, 22:20
molly5190 molly5190 is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

for pure sleeping purposes I say melatonin. two pills gets SWIM asleep on 70 mg of adderrall.
  #44  
Old 06-03-2008, 01:56
Psych0nautPlatinum member Psych0naut is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steva View Post
Amen.
Swim loves the buzz off Ambien.
He was taking 6 during the day for the buzz effect.
Also put stomach asleep so swim lost weight ala phen/Fen.
Swim no longer uses Zolpidem.
A few beers and 1mg gador xanax
will induce swim to sleep.
Swim did take Seconal,Nembutol,Tuinal many years ago
and they were more effective than ambien.
Please always include the chemical name of pharmaceutical drugs in your posts. This can be easily obtained from Google or other search engine. Doing so will avoid confusion on this international forum. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spa View Post
Ambien does a nice job to stop the constant racing thoughts I have...

... its for lower range insomnia. There are much more powerful chemicals to help you sleep.
Please always include the chemical name of pharmaceutical drugs in your posts. This can be easily obtained from Google or other search engine. Doing so will avoid confusion on this international forum. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine View Post
Flunitrazepam closely followed by midazolam. Benzodiazepines are the only thing that does it for SWIM these days.
I fully agree with that. Temazepam is a pretty good hypnotic as well, but after a while, or in very severe cases of insomnia, it doesn't work well enough. In those cases, fortunenately flunitrazepam does indeed do the job. Though after a long period of use, like all benzo's, even flunitrazepam loses it's effectiveness, not just due to tolerance, taking a higher dose still won't work after extended periods of usage. I noticed something very weird though 2 months ago when I still took flunitrazepam once in a while. When I took my dose, I felt it come up in 10 minutes and it had hit my like a brick wall in 20-30 minutes, almost making me pass out. I wasn't even capable of brushing my teeth anymore, I just dived straight into bed. But 2,5 hours later I woke up again, feeling extremely lethargic but unable to fall asleep again. I would be unable to fall back to sleep the rest of the night and morning, unless I took my dose of midazolam, which I just took as there was no other option. Really weird that it didn't keep me asleep, but instead I always woke up a few hours later, on the verge of falling back asleep again, but not actually falling asleep, especially because flunitrazepam is long acting.

Last edited by Psych0naut; 07-05-2008 at 14:17. Reason: typo
  #45  
Old 20-03-2008, 15:28
hbombhbomb hbombhbomb is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Melatonin
  #46  
Old 20-03-2008, 18:56
Jatelka Jatelka is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

^^^ And why is that? Without an explanation single words are not ever-so helpful
  #47  
Old 20-03-2008, 18:59
hbombhbomb hbombhbomb is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Sorry! It's herbal, easy to get and doesnt usually make one groggy the next day. I find it helps with REM sleep with no side effects.
  #48  
Old 28-03-2008, 16:19
drab4 drab4 is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubaloo View Post
What do you think is the number one sleeping pill?
Swim's personal favourite benzo for sleep is temazepam
Followed by zolpidem
Then diazepam
Then bromazepam
Then zopiclone

And those are the only benzos and derivatives he has tried. Other sleeping stuff that Swim has tried (melatonin, anti-histamines, GABA, GHB) either do not work very well or have unpleasant side effects
  #49  
Old 05-04-2008, 22:35
testodan testodan is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

From what SWIM have tried,SWIM says Trazodone knocks him out baad.Quited cause its makes him groggy for a long time next day,And, increase the appetite too much.Then is zopiclone,best for him,in which is on now.The nasty with Z drugs is that have a great tolerance,especially if Benzos are not being used together.

SWIM shall megadose benzos to sleep as the way with zopiclone sleeps.

Z drugs are definitely addicting,(not in recreational way but only as sleep meds).

Last edited by testodan; 05-04-2008 at 22:41.
  #50  
Old 15-04-2008, 16:56
UpperAndDowner UpperAndDowner is offline
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Re: Best sleeping pill?

In SWIM's opinion, the most effective sleeping pill has to be Zopiclone. However, it does leave a very bad taste in your mouth the next day.

SWIMS's routine before bed-time includes the following mix:
- Take valium (diazepam) 10 mg or so,
- then 50 mg of Trazodone followed by
- 10 mg of Zopiclone.

He has found the above mix to be quite effective. However, the dry lips and mouth caused by the Trazodone is often very annoying and becomes even more uncomfortable thanks to the bad after taste of the Zopiclone.

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