Drugs-Forum  
Home Wiki Studies Forum Groups Blog Video Images News
Go Back   Drugs Forum > DRUG-FORUMS > Ethnobotanicals > Kratom
Mark Forums Read
Register Tags

Notices

Kratom Mitragyna speciosa

 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 21-12-2012, 21:02
popeye.sailor popeye.sailor is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 21-12-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 12
popeye.sailor is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 35, Level: 1 Points: 35, Level: 1 Points: 35, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Is there anybody who can give me advise on how to use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance? I am on 600mg Tramadol for 8 months now for constant back pain due to a spinal injury. Can anyone tell me if it's legal in Mexico and what type of Kratom to use?

Thanks
  #2  
Old 22-12-2012, 20:16
PillMan PillMan is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 12-04-2012
24 y/o Male from USA - Arkansas
Posts: 844
Blog Entries: 2
PillMan really knows their shit.PillMan really knows their shit.PillMan really knows their shit.PillMan really knows their shit.PillMan really knows their shit.PillMan really knows their shit.PillMan really knows their shit.PillMan really knows their shit.PillMan really knows their shit.
Points: 4,492, Level: 9 Points: 4,492, Level: 9 Points: 4,492, Level: 9
Activity: 0.2% Activity: 0.2% Activity: 0.2%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Yes you can do that. Just try to not get hooked on Kratom while doing it. You can also taper off of Tramadol if you want to. Try to taper off slowly if you can, as it can cause seizures if you go through withdrawals to bad.

Are you looking for a sedating type of kratom or a stimulating strain? Either one will help you get off of tramadol but people do have preferences.
  #3  
Old 22-12-2012, 20:41
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
Platinum Member & Advisor
 
Join Date: 12-06-2007
38 y/o Male from Ireland
Posts: 7,066
Blog Entries: 3
ianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond repute
Points: 21,740, Level: 21 Points: 21,740, Level: 21 Points: 21,740, Level: 21
Activity: 100.0% Activity: 100.0% Activity: 100.0%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

I agree with pillman, you don't want just add another addiction to your list.
I would recommend you start to taper the Tramadol down. Leave as long as possible between doses, until you have to take some more and then take the smallest amount you can that will stop the withdrawals but not get you high.

You can do this for as long as possible, leaving as long as possible between doses. This will help to reduce your tolerance.

You can do this until you are down to a low dose and then substitute the Tramadol with kratom, starting with a small dose until you find the right amount to take to keep the withdrawals at bay. After doing this for a while you should be able to avoid using the Tramadol all together.

Alternatively stop taking the Tramadol all together and see if you can find a dose of kratom that will help with the withdrawals.

You will need to experiment to find what dose works for you.

If you really want to quit the Tramadol completely and not just replace it with kratom then it is very important that you find the right amount of kratom to take that will help the withdrawals but not get you high. Because you run the risk of just swapping addictions if you start to abuse the kratom.

I would recommend you try Bali kratom (aka Borneo red vein kratom)

Buy it from a site that sells only kratom. Not a head shop or site that sell 'legal highs'
I gave you a link in another thread to a post i did on what to look for in a vendor, it should give you an idea of what to avoid.

Have a look through other kratom posts in the forum on the different ways to take it. Make sure to take it on an empty stomach for the best results.

You can also look for sites that sell sample packs of different strains so you can find one that works best for you, but Bali is a good starting point, especially for someone looking to move from opiates and similar drugs.
  #4  
Old 23-12-2012, 08:16
Valcor Valcor is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 15-11-2012
23 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 15
Valcor is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 38, Level: 1 Points: 38, Level: 1 Points: 38, Level: 1
Activity: 2.0% Activity: 2.0% Activity: 2.0%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

One thing to note about tramadol tho is that while it is an opiod agonist it is also a seretonin releasing drug. So while kratom will take care of the opiod part of the withdrawal I don't think it will take care of the seretonin part. So just a heads up even with kratom I would think you would have similar withdrawal symptoms to ssri's.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Excellent point about the ssri properties of tram
  #5  
Old 24-12-2012, 20:10
alaskazagnut alaskazagnut is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 23-09-2009
45 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 114
alaskazagnut is a decent psychonaut.alaskazagnut is a decent psychonaut.
Points: 164, Level: 2 Points: 164, Level: 2 Points: 164, Level: 2
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valcor View Post
One thing to note about tramadol tho is that while it is an opiod agonist it is also a seretonin releasing drug. So while kratom will take care of the opiod part of the withdrawal I don't think it will take care of the seretonin part. So just a heads up even with kratom I would think you would have similar withdrawal symptoms to ssri's.
PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) is real and potentially long lasting. I have found one of the best "cures" is exercise. If you can work up to and achieve a "runners high", you are well on your way to achieving sober and "normal"/ healthy brain function. I am not consistently there yet. Some believe the burning out of serotonin and other brain chemical functions are permanently damaged to some degree with some (but not all) drugs under moderate to long term use (months or years). Stereotypically, Cocaine, Meth and Heroin are some of the most "high", highs you can give your brain. LSD and other hallucinogens affect a somewhat different set of brain functions and IMO, and can cause some permanent perceptual brain "changes". I mean think about it, science has proven 5-8 years of high sugar and processed corn and wheat food products can irreversibly damage peoples pancreatic and endocrine systems (diabetes). Our brain is the biggest part of our endocrine system (pituitary, pineal, hypothalamus). So when we put something in our body that sends some of our glands into red line, full bore, full rate of flow, for too long, they take damage and may even die out quicker.

Like many things in life, the fire that burns brightest, burns out the quickest. Who here can set themselves on fire and expect no scars?
  #6  
Old 25-12-2012, 04:08
AUblake85 AUblake85 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 23-12-2012
29 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 6
AUblake85 is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 5, Level: 1 Points: 5, Level: 1 Points: 5, Level: 1
Activity: 0.8% Activity: 0.8% Activity: 0.8%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Swim used kratom to ween off of tramadol after suffering from back problems. swim purchased kratom capsules and consumed 7 caps or roughly 3.5 grams of kratom every morning to help with the ultram withdrawals. kratom definatly helped but swim would warn that kratom can also be addicting. use with caution but good luck
  #7  
Old 26-12-2012, 04:58
popeye.sailor popeye.sailor is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 21-12-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 12
popeye.sailor is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 35, Level: 1 Points: 35, Level: 1 Points: 35, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Thanks you all for the quick repkly and the great advice. However, getting off tramadol is only the one part of the problem, what to use for the pain is the other part. Is there anyrhing safer than tramadol that will do the job ?
  #8  
Old 26-12-2012, 05:04
Rob Cypher Rob Cypher is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 30-05-2010
Male from United States
Posts: 1,974
Rob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline MedlineRob Cypher must mainline Medline
Points: 5,571, Level: 11 Points: 5,571, Level: 11 Points: 5,571, Level: 11
Activity: 15.2% Activity: 15.2% Activity: 15.2%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Well, kratom works pretty well for pain too, but as others noted, you're probably just trading one potential addiction for another, so...

I actually think w/ds from kratom might be a little worse than tramadol's, but that's just based on personal experiences from people I know.
  #9  
Old 17-04-2013, 19:53
MyPetUnicornPeg MyPetUnicornPeg is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 15-04-2013
32 y/o Female from USA - Oregon
Posts: 5
MyPetUnicornPeg is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 8, Level: 1 Points: 8, Level: 1 Points: 8, Level: 1
Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

I hate to necro this but my pet unicorn has had major success in using kratom to combat tramadol withdrawals and to get off Tramadol. Peg first discovered you need more than Kratom, so maybe add some Maca root. Maca acts like a natural antidepressant but without the risks of SJW. Peg, however, recommends that you wrap the willy since Maca can enhance fertility.
  #10  
Old 28-08-2013, 09:18
Carefree T Carefree T is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 16-07-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 59
Carefree T is learning how to become a psychonaut.
Points: 52, Level: 1 Points: 52, Level: 1 Points: 52, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

I also would like to revive this thread instead of starting my own, since I also have chronic back pain treated with tramadol. After seeing 3 general practitioners, three physical therapists, a chiropractor, three acupuncturists and a pain specialist and having had two x-rays done by different facilities and reviewed by two different doctors, they do not know what is causing my pain, but all are convinced I am too young to resort to treating with medication and as such, I will not have the tramadol for too much longer I feel. So I sought out kratom because I like the idea of a natural treatment (I know I know, natural =/= safe, as morphine is as natural as this) and also because there are really no other routes I can come up with that aren't both illegal and threatening to my job. Is there wisdom in this route of pain relief? I would ask about how they compare in analgesia and pain relief, but I UdTFSE and people say kratom is very much better than tramadol. I've never in the slightest felt at all addicted to the tramadol (I can and have taken many breaks without any hint of withdrawals and I've been on it for years) - could anybody give me some guesstimate to how tramadol and kratom compare in addiction potential? I won't use it every day and I don't need to; some days I am in no pain, other days some physical manipulation helps enough to deal with it, etc. Is there anything else I need to know about switching?
  #11  
Old 29-08-2013, 03:11
baselined baselined is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 28-10-2012
24 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 378
baselined really adds to the discussion.baselined really adds to the discussion.baselined really adds to the discussion.baselined really adds to the discussion.baselined really adds to the discussion.baselined really adds to the discussion.
Points: 855, Level: 4 Points: 855, Level: 4 Points: 855, Level: 4
Activity: 4.8% Activity: 4.8% Activity: 4.8%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Well, to answer your question in regards to addiction potential, it all depends. Body chemistry, as well as mental preferences, can play a huge role as to which one might be more addictive. In my opinion, however, I think that tramadol has a higher addiction potential; namely because of its effect on serotonin levels in the brain.

Tramadol is way more dangerous than doctors choose to believe. While it is a quite weak opioid, its M1 metabolite is far stronger. Not only can that cause opioid dependency, but its qualities of being a SNRI also play into how difficult it can be to get off of it.

Needless to say, both possess addictive qualities, and allowing yourself to succumb to addiction, in any form, is reckless and hazardous to one's health.

As far as pain relieve goes, I find kratom to be far superior in alleviating pain. In fact, I think its one of the better pain relievers that are commonly available. Recently, I found it superior for pain relief to my prescribed oxycodone due to injury.

To kind of throw some serious math out at you, check this out:

7-hydroxymitragynine is about 17 times as potent as oral morphine. 7-HOM is the alkaloid primarily responsible for the effects of kratom (far more potent that mitragynine, which was once thought to be the active alkaloid).

Wikipedia cites that 7-HOM makes up about 0.01-0.04% of kratom by weight.

That would mean that a relatively standard dose of 5 grams contains the equivalent of 8.5-34mgs of oral morphine, based on the ratios of strength of morphine to 7-HOM. (And this figure might be slightly higher given the added effects of mitragynine as an analgesic).

And to go further, 100mgs of tramadol is about equipotent to 10mgs oral morphine.

Keep in mind, this is just based on relative analgesic effects, and does not indicated the high a person will actually feel. I really like the tramadol high, where as others despise it.

There is plenty of good information on kratom in this forum. I highly suggest you look at the stickies, and well as some of the other threads available.

It's a great plant, but because of its relative ease to obtain, can quickly lend itself to addiction. You say to yourself right now that you won't get addicted, but that is a phrase many of us current addicts have used before; hindsight is 20/20. With that in mind, you should take a look at some of the kratom addiction threads, and while it is less addictive than some other opiates/opioids, it still very much is, and it is a real bitch to kick.

There is a thread going on right now titled "Just how stupid am I...", I suggest you give that a read and see how difficult a time that guy is having kicking his kratom habit.

Not trying to scare you, but it is something you want to consider before going down this path

Hope this is helpful!


EDIT: Here is a link to the study I posted that suggest that 7-hydroxmitragynine is 17 times more potent than oral morphine. That exact figure can be found on page 35. The study was written by Kenjiro Matsumoto, who has done extensive studies on kratom and its alkaloids. If I can find more, that aren't just the abstracts, I will add them to the Kratom Studies File. Note: I have come across other figures in the past, which might be more recent (wouldn't know how to find them again with any ease), but this is one that I've seen used on numerous equianalgesic charts, which actually include 7-hydroxymitragynine.

Last edited by baselined; 29-08-2013 at 06:35. Reason: Added link to study
  #12  
Old 29-08-2013, 03:21
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
Platinum Member & Advisor
 
Join Date: 12-06-2007
38 y/o Male from Ireland
Posts: 7,066
Blog Entries: 3
ianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond repute
Points: 21,740, Level: 21 Points: 21,740, Level: 21 Points: 21,740, Level: 21
Activity: 100.0% Activity: 100.0% Activity: 100.0%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Please post any information you have on the studies done on 7-hydroxymitragynine and mitragynine to the site and link it here.
Thanks.
This would be a great addition to the site/form
  #13  
Old 29-08-2013, 04:05
Carefree T Carefree T is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 16-07-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 59
Carefree T is learning how to become a psychonaut.
Points: 52, Level: 1 Points: 52, Level: 1 Points: 52, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Thanks baselined for the quality response. I've read threads in this forum through many pages for many months, including especially the stickies and addiction thread. I'm aware of the flimsiness of self-promises about addiction, but I managed to use morphine, hydrocodone and oxycodone only when needed, or to space it out when not exactly needed, and never had an opiate or opioid withdrawal in my life. Hopefully I can maintain such self-control with such an accessible drug.
  #14  
Old 29-08-2013, 04:17
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
Platinum Member & Advisor
 
Join Date: 12-06-2007
38 y/o Male from Ireland
Posts: 7,066
Blog Entries: 3
ianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond reputeianzombie is a true resource and beyond repute
Points: 21,740, Level: 21 Points: 21,740, Level: 21 Points: 21,740, Level: 21
Activity: 100.0% Activity: 100.0% Activity: 100.0%
Re: Can I use Kratom to stop Tramadol dependance?

Hopefully you can CT.
You seem to have a healthy attitude towards drug.
Just remember that legal is far from Safe
and that being strong is a gift that not many of us possess.

Share this on:

Tags
kratom, kratom for opiate withdrawal, tramadol, tramadol addiction, tramadol and kratom, withdrawal

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Drug info - Kratom: usage, dosage, different types 0utrider Kratom 123 20-07-2014 05:10
A Study of Kratom Eaters in Thailand Alfa Kratom 25 20-07-2014 05:07
Kratom Alfa Drug Articles 24 18-04-2014 10:22
Drug info - An overview of types of Kratom (Please review before posting new experience threads) Alfa Kratom 70 11-04-2014 21:24
Kratom users guide Alfa Kratom 9 27-01-2014 02:53

» New Threads
Help reduce the use of SWIM on DF
Last post by onlyliveoncetwice
249 Replies, 53,395 Views
I just want someones opinion on an...
Last post by BellTower72
10 Replies, 291 Views
Kratom, first time user, how to...
Last post by Narcolepsy
0 Replies, 6 Views
what could this be please help !!!
Last post by BellTower72
7 Replies, 164 Views
Heroin. Playing a game of chess in...
Last post by Jels
158 Replies, 9,114 Views
Heroin; I really need some...
Last post by marathonmel7
206 Replies, 10,661 Views
Dead Libido,orgasm - which drug...
Last post by Zerix
22 Replies, 1,071 Views
4-AcO-DMT...
Last post by M0RPH3US
107 Replies, 41,165 Views
Building a study stack -- Is...
Last post by Zerix
5 Replies, 153 Views
Chronic Pain- Off Percocet- Scared...
Last post by Nefret
132 Replies, 4,659 Views
» New Wiki Articles
GHB
NET

Sitelinks: Information:

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:06.


Copyright: SIN Foundation 2003 - 2014, All rights reserved