Drugs-Forum  
Home Wiki Studies Forum Groups Blog Video Images News
Go Back   Drugs Forum > DRUG-FORUMS > Downers and sleeping pills
Mark Forums Read
Register Tags

Notices

Downers and sleeping pills Anxiety Meds, Sleeping Pills and Skeletal Muscle Relaxants

 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 23-01-2013, 03:43
immortal agony immortal agony is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 10-12-2012
Male from USA - Montana
Posts: 52
immortal agony is learning how to become a psychonaut.
Points: 128, Level: 1 Points: 128, Level: 1 Points: 128, Level: 1
Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7%
Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

I missed out on the days when barbs and Quaaludes were floating around, and while I enjoyed benzos, I've become totally immune to them...I hate alcohol, but I'm desperate for drugs to mellow me out. Are there any other recreational downers (besides muscle relaxants and opiates) being prescribed at all in the US?
  #2  
Old 23-01-2013, 04:02
Potter Potter is offline
Platinum Member & Advisor
 
Join Date: 01-04-2005
33 y/o Female from United States
Posts: 7,862
Blog Entries: 27
Potter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond reputePotter is a true resource and beyond repute
Points: 18,482, Level: 19 Points: 18,482, Level: 19 Points: 18,482, Level: 19
Activity: 100.0% Activity: 100.0% Activity: 100.0%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

Yes. Don't know where they came from, but I've gotten phenobarbital from a few different medicine cabinets.

Any other questions?

(edit) I mean ye, they are out there, I just don't know why or how they are prescribed. They have seem to fallen out of favor as far as "downers" go, I think they are used for muscle pains these days, but that is a wild guess based off of where I have seen them and the fact that at least phenobarbital is mixed with caffeine in the one preparation I have.

Last edited by Potter; 13-03-2013 at 14:33.
  #3  
Old 23-01-2013, 04:25
immortal agony immortal agony is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 10-12-2012
Male from USA - Montana
Posts: 52
immortal agony is learning how to become a psychonaut.
Points: 128, Level: 1 Points: 128, Level: 1 Points: 128, Level: 1
Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

I assume you mean "yes, they are totally unavailable," not "yes, there are other recreational downers being prescribed?"

Fuck, I've always said I was born too late...

immortal agony added 14 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

See, I've seen phenobarbitol mentioned a lot on this forum, and i was always under the assumption that the stuff was virtually unobtainable. I'd love to get my hands on some. Fuck, you'd think that with all the designer drugs and "research chemicals" out there that some benevolent soul could start cooking up some black-market 'ludes or something for people like me...I LOVE DOWNERS.

Last edited by immortal agony; 23-01-2013 at 04:25. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #4  
Old 23-01-2013, 04:34
The 13 Rats The 13 Rats is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: 02-01-2011
24 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 41
The 13 Rats is learning how to become a psychonaut.
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

As far as I know, certain barbiturates are still available by prescription, but due to the wave of abuse that they experienced way back when, they're harder to get than benzos.
Funny thing I remembered a day or two ago: my very first drug experience (hard to believe there was ever a first haha) was with phenobarbital. My cat had epilepsy and my mom asked me give her her meds one day. Earlier that day, in health class, the teacher was talking about prescription drug abuse and phenobarbital was mentioned. When I picked up the cat's medicine bottle and saw phenobarbital on it, I was curious, and popped 90mg, leading to my first intentional high ever. Can't believe I forgot about that hahaha.
But back on topic, I recently did some research on the Controlled Substances Act and if I remember correctly, phenobarbital is still schedule III, meaning it is available by prescription. Sadly though, methaqualone is schedule I, and I highly doubt that many chemists have the knowledge or desire to synthesize it themselves, meaning that unless you're extremely lucky, it won't be a substance many of us are likely to stumble across anytime soon.
Also, if your'e looking for a good drug to chill you out, but hate alcohol and are immune to benzos, there have been several interesting looking sedative research chemicals out there. Even though you're supposedly immune to benzos, a chemical called phenazepam is available for extremely cheap. So despite your tolerance, you could easily afford this stuff.

Also, etizolam looks pretty interesting. It's not a benzodiazepine, but a thienodiazepine. It's also available for a decent price, and is legal and readilly available. From my research, it sounds like it's similar to diazepam, but a bit more euphoric than most benzos out there.
Ethaqualone is another interesting sounding RC out there. Though I haven't tried any of these RC downers so I can't say from personal experience, but do a little research and I'm sure you'll find the right downer for you. Best of luck.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 24-01-2013 at 17:38. Reason: prices omitted
  #5  
Old 23-01-2013, 12:22
y4nn y4nn is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 26-06-2010
Male from United Kingdom
Posts: 54
y4nn should urgently read the rules & received reputation comments.
Points: 70, Level: 1 Points: 70, Level: 1 Points: 70, Level: 1
Activity: 0.2% Activity: 0.2% Activity: 0.2%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

Eli Lilly and Company im sure these guys used to produce secobarbital


Post Quality Evaluations:
does not answer the question of OPAnd doesn't add to the thread. sadly useless oneliner
while factually true, "used to" is what makes this irrelevant to the conversation. This is about current availibility.
  #6  
Old 23-01-2013, 16:57
mr sic mr sic is offline
R.I.P.
 
Join Date: 21-04-2012
Male from USA - Ohio
Posts: 183
mr sic is learning how to become a psychonaut.
Points: 125, Level: 1 Points: 125, Level: 1 Points: 125, Level: 1
Activity: 24.8% Activity: 24.8% Activity: 24.8%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

Yes they are still available the most common (in my experience )are phenobarbital and fiorecet. Phenobarbitol is prescriped for seizures and Ive also been prescribed it for post acute alchohol withdrawl. Ive also seen it prescribed for dogs( Idont know what it was for, as it wasnt my dog), so vets use it also.
Ive been prescribed fiorecet(apap/butibital/caffine) for tension headaches. Ive seen a few people prescribed them for muscle spasms. I think they look cool as the stamp on the pill is of a head thats making trails.
Unless something has changed in the last 2 years Im pretty sure they are still prescribed (somewhat) regularly.
  #7  
Old 24-01-2013, 03:29
immortal agony immortal agony is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 10-12-2012
Male from USA - Montana
Posts: 52
immortal agony is learning how to become a psychonaut.
Points: 128, Level: 1 Points: 128, Level: 1 Points: 128, Level: 1
Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

Seems like they'd be a bitch to get prescribed...anyone can get their hands on benzos, it seems.
  #8  
Old 13-03-2013, 03:42
swimo swimo is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 01-05-2012
Male from Earth
Posts: 104
swimo should urgently read the rules & received reputation comments.
Points: 168, Level: 2 Points: 168, Level: 2 Points: 168, Level: 2
Activity: 2.5% Activity: 2.5% Activity: 2.5%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

Primadone is a common barbiturate swim sees it's not that rare

Post Quality Evaluations:
Please do not use SWIM http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197306
  #9  
Old 13-03-2013, 04:36
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 04-02-2010
25 y/o Male from USA - Kentucky
Posts: 3,073
Moving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond reputeMoving Pictures is a true resource and beyond repute
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

As has been said, phenobarbital and butalbital (in the form of Fioricet) are commonly available. Also there is a form of butalbital that is just butalbital and APAP without the nasty caffeine. All those forms of butalbital are not controlled and pretty easy to get a prescription for. They are prescribed for tension headaches.

Phenobarbital is pretty common as well. It's not first line anymore but is still pretty common to treat seizure disorders. It is schedul IV in the US (same as benzos) and not that hard to get a hold of. I believe the doseages availble in the US are 15, 30, 60, and 100 mg tablets. There are also elixirs and such avaible and smaller doses used to treat epilipsey in cats and dogs.

Both butalbital and phenbarbital are fairly weak in comparison to the old barbiturates. IE, one tablet won't do much. I've done Fioricet hundreds of times and phenobarbital about a dozen times. I wish I knew the strenght of the phenobarbital I was doing. I just took 5 or 6 pills and it got me very relaxed and sluggish and lasted a LONG time. Like all day. Neither butalbital nor phenobarbital are particularly euphoric. At high doses they produce a sloppy drunk like effect. The effects aren't subtle like benzos though, when you're fucked up on pheno or butalbital, you know you are fucked up. They can cause aggression.

I should be doing some phenobarbital this weekend. I will try to get the dose and write up a little report on it since we don't have a lot of info on it. Like I said though, it's nothing really special.

Pentobarbital (Nembutal), I believe, is still very rarely prescribed for seizure disorders (last line) and is used as an anesthetic in the hospital. It is also being looked at as a drug for the "one drug method" of execution for death row in the US.

There are various barbiturates still used in hospital settings for anesthesia and to induce a coma.

The most dangerous part about barbiturates is that in the case of an overdose, the only treatment is supportive. There is no antagonist drug for them. If you overdose, the best the can do is try to keep you alive with breathing machines and such.

My friend tried to kill herself with phenobarbital and alcohol and was in a coma for 4 days with a breathing tube and the doctors were telling her parents that she would more than likely die. On the last day, her dad was holding her hand and said she squeezed his hand. The doctors said it was just a nerve reflex and that she wasn't going to come out of the coma. A few hours later though, she did come out of the coma.

So they are very dangerous drugs because overdoses cannot be treated eaisly. When things like Seconal and Tuinal and Nembutal were reguarly prescribed, people were dying a lot from just taking a couple extra to go to sleep. Not trying to get high or anything.

My mom told me of the old days where they were common as aspirin. She'd go to one doctor, say she couldn't sleep, get 100 Seconal prescribed. Go back and say she still couldn't sleep and then get 100 Nembutal prescribed.

She also told me about the Tuinal which had gel inside and that they would stick the needle right into the capsule, draw up the gel, then draw up a little water, shake it, and inject it. She said there wasn't a huge rush but from what she remembers, the first effect was that it litterally took your breath away, like you had the wind knocked out of you, and then you were just high as fuck.

So yeah, butalbital and phenobarbital are the most common. On its own, butalbital is schedule 3 in the US but in combination with APAP, it is unscheduled. However Fioricet with codeine and Fiorinal with codeine are schedule 3 and both have 30 mg of codeine added to it.

Fioricet/Esgic is 50/40/325 butalbital/caffeine/APAP and Fiorinal is 50/40/325 butalbital/caffeine/aspirin. Phrenilin is just 50 mg of butalbital and 325 mg of acetminophen.

Interesting fact, while butalbital/apap compounds are not scheduled, butabital/aspirin compounds are, regardless of if they have codeine or not. The FDA sets a limit on the ratio of the non narcotic (either apap or asa) to the narcotic (butalbital) for it to be scheduled or not. Fioricet with the APAP meets the correct ratio while Fiorinal with the ASA does not, thusfore it is a scheduled substance.

Fioricet/Esgic/Phrenilin are all unscheduled. Fiorinal is schedule 3. This is interesting because the abuse potential is exactly the same except the fact that Fiorinal is less dangerous in the case of an overdose. But it is no more abusable than the compound with acetaminophen.

source: www.duq.COCKSUCKER/Documents/pharmacy/aboutus/publications/pic/05/fiorinal_scheduling.pdf

Because the link has a reference to a .gov site, I replaced the ".com" with "cocksucker"

Moving Pictures added 9 Minutes and 50 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swimo View Post
Primadone is a common barbiturate swim sees it's not that rare
Primidone isn't exactly a barbiturate, however one of it's metabolite is phenobarbital. It is used as an anticonvuslant, among other things. It's not reguarlly used though.

Unlike phenobarbital, it's metabolite, it is not a controlled substance.

I will have to do some more research into it to find out if it is recreation/abusable.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Very well written post that is highly informative, and very cautionary.
instead of providing a non-working link, why not just upload the PDF as an attachment as you are supposed to.

Last edited by Moving Pictures; 13-03-2013 at 04:41. Reason: Automerged Doubleposted
  #10  
Old 17-03-2013, 01:56
Cupncakeprincess Cupncakeprincess is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 07-12-2012
27 y/o Female from United States
Posts: 40
Cupncakeprincess is a decent psychonaut.
Points: 90, Level: 1 Points: 90, Level: 1 Points: 90, Level: 1
Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

Early on in my 'drug career' I was always on the hunt for barbiturates. After a while, I just wrote them off because I never imagined running into one.

Fast forward almost a decade. I checked into a detox facility. The biggest reason I use is to self-medicate an anxiety disorder. I was a host mess of anxiety within 2 hours of checking in. After a meltdown where I began crying uncontrollably, a nurse came to me with a pill for me to take, "This'll help calm you down."

"What is it?"

Imagine my surprise when she said, "PHENOBARBITAL."

My mouth dropped to the floor. Really?? Everyone here is trying to kick some substance, and you're first line anxiolytic is a BARBITURATE?? I'm still scratching my head as to why I was given phenobarbital in a detox facility. Quite a few people were on it there... people that didn't have anxiety problems. I wanted to say that those that were on it all checked in for heroin withdrawals. Does anyone know if this is standard? Do you think its because of the effects phenobarbital has on cytochrome p450? Would it help speed up the detox process?

Well, I finally got a barb in my paws, but not a recreational dose. They're not TOTALLY unavailable, but best of luck, my friend!

Last edited by Cupncakeprincess; 17-03-2013 at 03:36.
  #11  
Old 17-03-2013, 02:41
carter 1203 carter 1203 is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 17-11-2012
48 y/o Female from USA - Michigan
Posts: 661
carter 1203 really adds to the discussion.carter 1203 really adds to the discussion.carter 1203 really adds to the discussion.carter 1203 really adds to the discussion.carter 1203 really adds to the discussion.carter 1203 really adds to the discussion.carter 1203 really adds to the discussion.
Points: 1,132, Level: 5 Points: 1,132, Level: 5 Points: 1,132, Level: 5
Activity: 6.7% Activity: 6.7% Activity: 6.7%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

That seems unusual cupcake, but I guess hospital policies vary. I've been to places that didn't offer me more than antihistmines or antipsychotics to get through the night. I would say you were in a facility that first line of treatment in the beginning stage of withdrawal was phenobarbital. It's not typical though in my experiences at detox/rehab. Even while in jail, I was given librium and that helped me a whole lot more than the meds given at rehab. Weird huh? I was a longtime drug user since the 70's and have never been given barbituates while at hospital or psych doctor.

Last edited by carter 1203; 17-03-2013 at 02:48.
  #12  
Old 17-03-2013, 18:51
ratgirldjh ratgirldjh is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 10-09-2011
54 y/o Female from United States
Posts: 582
ratgirldjh really adds to the discussion.ratgirldjh really adds to the discussion.ratgirldjh really adds to the discussion.ratgirldjh really adds to the discussion.ratgirldjh really adds to the discussion.ratgirldjh really adds to the discussion.
Points: 482, Level: 3 Points: 482, Level: 3 Points: 482, Level: 3
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

I used to take 1/4 grain of phenobarbital for seizures about 20 years ago. It worked but even at that low dose had some side effects - mostly not feeling high but being unsteady or wobbly on my feet and hitting my head on the door when I passed by. I never tried to get high on it but did take it a few times to come down from a night shooting coke and it helped. But since I needed to take it daily I really did not have extra to experiment with.

I didn't like it after a while and was switched to klonopin. Phenobarbital was the cheapest drug I have ever been on btw.

My dog is on liquid phenobarbital now for seizures. It is a pink, sticky sweet syrup.

So in my world it is still around but used mainly for seizures. Most doctors and vets though prefer newer drugs these days and I even have to pick up my dogs prescription at Walmart these days because the vet doesn't carry it any more since most of his patients are now on newer anti-seizure drugs.
  #13  
Old 17-03-2013, 20:30
Baba Blacksheep Baba Blacksheep is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 29-05-2011
Male from Portugal
Posts: 301
Baba Blacksheep is on the way upBaba Blacksheep is on the way upBaba Blacksheep is on the way up
Points: 419, Level: 3 Points: 419, Level: 3 Points: 419, Level: 3
Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

About 10 years ago a friend of mine gave me a bottle of phenobarbital that had belonged to his recently deceased granny at that time.
I can't remember the milligrams per pill but going through the bottle of 60 one at a time or possibly two or so but following the maximum dose regime from my Physicians Desk Reference, I can't remember enjoying them much at all. Made me feel a little uncoordinated, less anxious but really nothing else to note.
Secondal, nembutal and so on are the fast acting barbs which I have never tried, but according to history were and are very potent indeed.
  #14  
Old 17-03-2013, 23:52
Xanahalf Xanahalf is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 21-06-2011
Male from Canada
Posts: 205
Xanahalf is a decent psychonaut.Xanahalf is a decent psychonaut.
Points: 167, Level: 2 Points: 167, Level: 2 Points: 167, Level: 2
Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

I used to get brutal migraines and got fiorecet. I was younger and much less drug experienced but three or four of those knocked me on my ass. I did a CWE on my left overs when I was older and even managed to get out the awful caffeine - made for some enjoyable times. I suppose I could easily malinger for more but they hardly seem worth it. As others have said there is not a ton of euphoria, just overall fucked upness. I'd trade two doses of fiorecet for one dose of oxy any day!
  #15  
Old 21-03-2013, 15:22
bobes bobes is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 29-07-2010
48 y/o Male from Earth
Posts: 71
bobes is a decent psychonaut.bobes is a decent psychonaut.
Points: 196, Level: 2 Points: 196, Level: 2 Points: 196, Level: 2
Activity: 0.4% Activity: 0.4% Activity: 0.4%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

its still commonly used in canada for the tx and prevention of seizures..phenobarbital. often in infants.
  #16  
Old 26-03-2013, 01:58
miffytherabbit miffytherabbit is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 02-11-2009
40 y/o Male from United Kingdom
Posts: 62
miffytherabbit is a decent psychonaut.
Points: 128, Level: 1 Points: 128, Level: 1 Points: 128, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

Phenobarbital is, I would imagine, a drug commonly available in the US and could probably be easily procured, although I live in England. I feel fairly certain of this but I don't know if the rules allow me to articulate where they are circulated, apart from to say their origin is often from Europe. Also, you would have to have a genuine complaint - ie insomnia to be prescribed them.

I can only speak for the UK, as I do not know the laws in the USA, and so I am making clear that I speak only with regard to the UK, but I would imagine that perhaps similar laws could apply to the USA, though it would take a learned person from America to definitively answer whether the law was the same. In the UK it is legal to undergo Internet consultations with a doctor. A friend of mine is regularly prescribed Phenobarbital tablets from a site that delivers worldwide. She suffers with severe insomnia and neither Z-drugs (Zopiclone, Zapeplon etc) or hypnotic Benzodiazepines, temazepam, rohypnol etc have worked for her.

She found the consultation website on a forum, and most of the customers who use the consultation website are Americans because of no insurance, and other obvious factors.

It is a truism that the doctors who service this site are not as rigorous as one's own GP, again for obvious reasons, but a consultation nevertheless takes place, and whilst the patient can request medication, I would imagine there are times when it is denied. I'm a bit concerned at the amount of tablets she gets prescribed - she literally has bottles and bottles of phenobarital and packets of various different benzodiazepines. As someone who's had my own struggles with benzodiazepines in the past, this lack of rigour alarms me a bit, but the tablets are kosher and the packets arrive with the correct prescription labelling and pharmacist's signature.

I have no idea how much information my friend had to impart - whether she had to give the name of her doctor, but I do know she has genuine severe insomnia. My fear is that the doctors are more interested in making as much financial gain as possible at the expense of ignoring sensible prescribing - my father was a GP until just under two years ago and I asked him a while ago if he would ever prescribe phenobarbital for anyone, and he said yes, but only to a patient he'd known for a considerable length of time, with no track record of any kind of drug seeking, who'd had a persistent pattern of intense, unrelenting insomnia for a number of years, and all other treatments had failed, including sleep clinics and sleep hygiene classes and other medications, and then he would prescribe them on the promise that the patient took them only twice a week absolutely maximum, for respite.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't know the law regarding Internet doctor consultations, and I am not advocating in any way attempting to procure them from a doctor by deceitful means. If I have misinterpreted the rules on here then I am extremely sorry, as it seems a bit of a fuzzy area. Please delete this post if it in any way breeches the rules. What I am not advocating is to seek out a doctor to procure phenobarbital to take for recreational purposes.
  #17  
Old 26-03-2013, 02:05
The Architect The Architect is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 12-01-2013
Male from United States
Posts: 58
The Architect is a decent psychonaut.
Points: 116, Level: 1 Points: 116, Level: 1 Points: 116, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

NOTHING is unavailable in the United States.
I have known a handful of bodybuilders to use barbiturates.
It aids them to reach REM sleep, which allows them to be anabolic, blah blah blah...

I'd say get ahold of any serious bodybuilders you know or join a serious gym. Not only will you find what you're looking for, you'll be bettering yourself and lookin good in the meantime.

Good luck.
  #18  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:58
Hover Hover is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 30-04-2009
50 y/o Male from Canada
Posts: 123
Hover is a decent psychonaut.Hover is a decent psychonaut.
Points: 119, Level: 1 Points: 119, Level: 1 Points: 119, Level: 1
Activity: 1.3% Activity: 1.3% Activity: 1.3%
Re: Are barbiturates totally unavailable in North America?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potter View Post
Yes. Don't know where they came from, but I've gotten phenobarbital from a few different medicine cabinets.
Phenobarbital is still routinely prescribed to treat seizures however taken on its own it has very little recreational value, if any. While physical addiction occurs at therapeutic doses (as with all barbiturates), abuse of long-acting barbiturates is extremely rare. For this reason many psychiatrists prefer it to benzos for the long-term treatment of anxiety disorders.

That being said there are several downsides to using phenobarbital over benzos for therapeutic purposes. Overdosing is more lethal than with any benzo, especially when mixed with alcohol, most GABA agonists or certain antidepressants. Patients treated with pheno for chronic conditions can never consume alcohol and when a switch from pheno to a non-barbiturate drug is required the patient must be weaned over a very long period because barbiturates are one of the very rare drugs (along with alcohol) from which sudden withdrawal can be -and often is- fatal. If you think heroin withdrawal is hell, this is much worse both physically and psychologically. Even the most moralistic, bible-thumping, teetotaling doctor will prescribe barbiturates to a proven addict (in a controlled environment), or face having his/her license revoked for wilfully endangering the life of a patient.

Despite all this many patients (among them young children and elderly people who don't drink) have a profile that is conducive to benefit most from this drug as a long-term or even lifelong treatment of choice. At therapeutic dosage pheno has little effect on judgement and social behavior other than promoting a slightly laidback attitude and more elevated anger thresholdm without making the patient goofy or spacy like benzos, with the exception of chordiazepoxide (Librium) which has a psychoactive profile that is very similar to phenobarbital, and also has little recreational potential. In fact Librium was originally prescribed as a safer alternative to phenobarbital, until it was noticed that its therapeutic effects did not last long and were practically nil after a year of sustained use, while pheno maintains its anti-seizure properties for decades.

Hover added 10 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by immortal agony View Post
See, I've seen phenobarbitol mentioned a lot on this forum, and i was always under the assumption that the stuff was virtually unobtainable. I'd love to get my hands on some.
No you would not, unless a dull downer with no euphoria at all is what you're after. Unless you need it for genuine therapeutic reasons what's the benefit of using a drug that only gives you that sort of high where you don't notice you are on something then take more just to grow apathetic and boring drowsy with no buzz whatsoever.

Hover added 91 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba Blacksheep View Post
Secondal, nembutal and so on are the fast acting barbs which I have never tried, but according to history were and are very potent indeed.
Yes, short-acting barbiturates are extremely potent and along with strong opiates it's one of the few drugs that get you very high at therapeutic dosage. Which is a good thing considering that when it comes to pentobarbital (Nembutal) taking more than the prescribed dose, even as little as say, 2 yellow capsules instead of one, can kill you. That's the reason why Nembutal is not available to outpatients in Canada anymore unless you are some sort of freak of nature born without the ability to sleep or have caught a Martian virus that made you so. Seriously, to get Nembutal prescribed to you for taking home you have to be suffering from a serious and proven neurological condition, usually the result of severe head injury or brain disease, and show up at the pharmacy with triplicate laser-etched tamper-proof script, perhaps even with tracking chips embedded in it, and then the pharmacist will still call your neurologist, ask him/her to give a physical description of you, take finger prints, check police databases and maybe even ask your local minister to vouch for you even if you never go to church and barely even know know which denomination you are supposed to belong to.

I'm barely exaggerating. And this may come as a surprise by I agree that Nembutal should never be taken outside of a medically controlled environment, the risk of accidental death is simply unacceptably high. And this is coming from one who is is considered by his entourage as someone who is perpetually under the influence of something either potently stimulating or powerfully calming (and yet almost always legally procured, thank God I live in Canada where winters are cold but powerful highs reasonably accessible to the enterprising mind) and has no intent of finding out what it's like to be on neither for as long as he lives.

The Seconal/Nembutal high is very powerful, incapacitating but you don't care about it, for an hour or 2 (depending how long you can resist passing out) you're perfectly at ease with the world. You're sociable in a goofy way, only people sharing the trip are able to tune into your world. If you're alone you just float about thinking of all that's sooooo wonderful around you, you laugh, you sing, you feel all warm inside (this is really nice) and soon you drift into sleep, and the voyage is over. But if you abuse seconal without reaching the lethal dosage you can become just like an animal and behave horribly, losing all sense of morals, judgement and conscience. Some people have committed horrible crimes while in this state, actions that have absolutely nothing to do with their personality. The only "blessing" is that the drug's abuser will have absolutely no recollection of his/her actions once the effects are gone, but the consequences will still be there. Handle with care.

Hover added 279 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by miffytherabbit View Post
Phenobarbital is, I would imagine, a drug commonly available in the US and could probably be easily procured, although I live in England.
You imagine right, from what I read phenobarbital is commonly prescribed in the US for a variety of indications, in fact it's on the list of USP's "essential drugs" that doctors couldn't do without. The UN uses a nearly identical list, it was originally intended as a list of the very essential medications that military surgeons and medics had to have on hand. The list of conditions that pheno can be used to treat is surprisingly comprehensive, it ranges from neonatal jaundice to status epilepticus, although the US and Canada appear to be the only countries to routinely administer IV pheno for this condition, in the UK it's a third-line alternative.

Apparently the use of phenobarbital as the main treatment for grand mal epilepsy (the most common type) is actually on the rise in the US since the efficacy of phenytoin (Dilantin) is apparently nowhere near the original claims of Parke-Davis, who first marketed the drug. The FDA had approved phenytoin as an adjunct treatment but in the 60's following Marilyn Monroe's death all barbiturates had been evilized in one of those mass hysteria reaction to anything associated with counterculture and 'hippies' who were being portrayed as unproductive parasites responsible for anyone overdosing on any substance regardless of the fact that junkies OD'ing on drugs were already commonplace in the 1920's and 30's. US doctors were scared into prescribing what imho amounts to snake oil under threat of prosecution if they insisted on using a tested and proven drug for no other reason than personal opinion on a younger generation's values.

Undoubtedly this contributed to the misery of many patients, including my fiancee who lost her life after suffering a major seizure while taking a shower. She fell and her head hit the ceramic tiles with sufficient force to knock her out. Her hair clogged the drain and she drowned in 2 inches of water. Apart from her epilepsy she was a perfectly healthy, athletic 21 year-old woman and she was beautiful inside out. Instead of being prescribed the medication that would have controlled her condition and allowed her to live, she was given something that ultimately robbed her of her life but hey, that's okay with regulators because at least she wasn't "high" when she met with God, right?

Go to hell, this happened in 1986 and I still hold a grudge. Fortunately the medical and drug regulating communities in the US appear to be slowly coming to their senses but a lot of work remains to be done. For one I am glad that even the most conservative of governments in Canada has parted ways with the US approach on drug regulations back in the late 1980's and early 90's, citing 'diverging priorities', a polite way of disagreeing with blatantly insane policies such as War on Drugs that reeked of long-discredited Prohibition-era rhetoric. At least Herbert Hoover had admitted that the Prohibition was "misguided... a waste of resources... unenforceable... the greatest incentive to large-scale organized crime and near-universal civil disobedience in this country's history" Even though Hoover was not re-elected and thus could not deliver on his promise to end Prohibition, Roosevelt agreed with him and had the Volstead Act revoked. Unfortunately Reagan had a memory blank even though he was old enough to clearly recall the event.

Hover added 48 Minutes and 30 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by immortal agony View Post
I missed out on the days when barbs and Quaaludes were floating around, and while I enjoyed benzos, I've become totally immune to them...I hate alcohol, but I'm desperate for drugs to mellow me out. Are there any other recreational downers (besides muscle relaxants and opiates) being prescribed at all in the US?
There are one or two Z-drugs available for prescription in the US, and phenibut which is sold as a supplement in North America but it's actually a drug, a bona fide downer similar to GHB that is prescribed in some European countries to control anxiety. Apart from that you also have chloral hydrate but it's heavily regulated in the US. It's not controlled in Canada (schedule F, low concern) but although scoring some here is easy no Canadian supplier will agree to ship you a substance that is controlled in the US unless a legit prescription from a Canadian physician is produced and made available to US Customs during shipment. That means supplier sticks a photocopy of the script on the packaging, and the real thing thing inside, along with a seriously inflated shipping charge. If the substance happens to be banned or not approved for sale in the US (example: zopiclone and eszopiclone) US Customs will seize it and the supplier will not refund you because he doesn't get it back either.

Hover added 55 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moving Pictures View Post
As has been said, phenobarbital and butalbital (in the form of Fioricet) are commonly available. Also there is a form of butalbital that is just butalbital and APAP without the nasty caffeine. All those forms of butalbital are not controlled and pretty easy to get a prescription for. They are prescribed for tension headaches.
There is also the formulation known as Fioricet with Codeine, adding 30mg of codeine to the mix. A little more difficult to get a script for it though, presence of codeine makes it a controlled drug.

Actually this weird combination (with or without codeine) is just about the only proven effective drug against true tension migraine and as a result is widely prescribed. This may be the reason why it was exempted from control (formulations without codeine), so as to not prevent timid physicians from dispensing it. Also butalbital is much weaker than seconal and in my view has little recreational value. The effect is similar to that of a long-acting benzo such as Serax or Tranxene, and it makes me nauseous.

Hover added 108 Minutes and 12 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupncakeprincess View Post
Early on in my 'drug career' I was always on the hunt for barbiturates. After a while, I just wrote them off because I never imagined running into one.

Fast forward almost a decade. I checked into a detox facility. The biggest reason I use is to self-medicate an anxiety disorder. I was a host mess of anxiety within 2 hours of checking in. After a meltdown where I began crying uncontrollably, a nurse came to me with a pill for me to take, "This'll help calm you down."

"What is it?"

Imagine my surprise when she said, "PHENOBARBITAL."

My mouth dropped to the floor. Really?? Everyone here is trying to kick some substance, and you're first line anxiolytic is a BARBITURATE?? I'm still scratching my head as to why I was given phenobarbital in a detox facility. Quite a few people were on it there... people that didn't have anxiety problems. I wanted to say that those that were on it all checked in for heroin withdrawals. Does anyone know if this is standard? Do you think its because of the effects phenobarbital has on cytochrome p450? Would it help speed up the detox process?

Well, I finally got a barb in my paws, but not a recreational dose. They're not TOTALLY unavailable, but best of luck, my friend!
I notice a widespread misconception regarding barbiturates among the younger members of the forum. I suppose that the suppression of most 'legendary' barbiturates from public access over the last 20-30 years has created some sort of a myth that all drugs belonging to this class possess some sort of magical power to take someone as high as a human being can get and survive... and sometimes beyond. While this is true to a point when short-acting barbiturates are concerned (from now on I'll refer to these as Seconal (secobarbital) because the other two are now out of reach for outpatients).

Part of the myth is true. I know of no other drug than Seconal that has the ability to take the user, especially the first-time or very occasional user, to such a high level of "stoneness" in one single hit, not even IV meth, freebase coke or IV pharmaceutical grade diamorphine (aka the true heroin prescribed to terminal patients in Canada). And all that from an oral dose. The sentiment of courting death heightens the rush even further. Ah, the memories...

Reality check. Barbiturates are a very broad family of drugs. There is a huge chemical difference between ultra-short acting Sodium Pentothal (the strongest barbiturate, only used in surgery or in execution chambers) and near-buzzless phenobarbital, the same difference as, say, between codeine and fentanyl in the opiate class.

Post Quality Evaluations:
informative and interesting information, thanks

Last edited by Hover; 01-04-2013 at 06:58. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

Share this on:

Thread Tools


» New Threads
Codeine Vs Tramadol
Last post by Hamish
5 Replies, 224 Views
Looking for advice to help quit...
Last post by anon9871
2 Replies, 34 Views
Cocaine experiences
Last post by Dwhoneil
203 Replies, 69,472 Views
Are there any other mothers out...
Last post by Cesareo
8 Replies, 587 Views
My time to give up Tramadol
Last post by allme
7 Replies, 287 Views
Borderline personality disorder...
Last post by hotdogfrenchfries
11 Replies, 396 Views
Colic child
Last post by Name goes here
1 Replies, 17 Views
Is this a for-life thing for you?
Last post by hotdogfrenchfries
11 Replies, 521 Views
When do you know you should put...
Last post by BabyLuve
0 Replies, 22 Views
Quetiapine 25mg (Seroquel) unusual...
Last post by lookaslowpoke
5 Replies, 117 Views
» New Wiki Articles

Sitelinks: Information:

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:25.


Copyright: SIN Foundation 2003 - 2014, All rights reserved
"Wiki" powered by VaultWiki v3.0.20 PL 1.