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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #26  
Old 05-02-2013, 07:23
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

Hardsteppa...I have to disagree with you about a subutex rattle being nasty. If done correctly you should only feel a little discomfort. I think most people feel worse because they're dwelling on quitting, thinking about how ill they feel, instead of perhaps focusing on more positive aspects of quitting. I think that a lot of people who quit are enduring it, instead of seeing their drug free life as a new fresh start. Mindset is what it's all about.

Sparkles.
  #27  
Old 05-02-2013, 11:43
halo99 halo99 is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by missparkles View Post
Hardsteppa...I have to disagree with you about a subutex rattle being nasty. If done correctly you should only feel a little discomfort. I think most people feel worse because they're dwelling on quitting, thinking about how ill they feel, instead of perhaps focusing on more positive aspects of quitting. I think that a lot of people who quit are enduring it, instead of seeing their drug free life as a new fresh start. Mindset is what it's all about.

Sparkles.
i definitely agree that mindset is important but that doesnt diminish the effects of jumping... i read just about every post on jumping i could find on every HR forum and i only found maybe 2-3 *total* people who ever posted doing a taper (methadone or suboxone) where they did not feel any significant WD or PAWS symptoms...

let me put it another way: im a tough guy; i can deal with *alot* of pain and on top of that i have a very strong will... and i went into this with a positive and devoted mindset... and i planned my taper methodically and followed it as long as it could be done... and still after all that quitting methadone tested me in ways i simply did not forsee... and for me it was like "wow i know im not going backwards but how the hell am i going to go forward if it continues like this??"

So yes mindset is very important to be successful at this but honestly i think that telling people that a suboxone jump doesnt have to be bad is debateably a bad idea when the statistics and anecdotal evidence indicate that it likely *will* be bad... (maybe not as bad as methadone but its not going to be easy...) just go down this very forum and look at all the taper/jump threads for both methadone and suboxone; the *vast* majority of both dont end well... doctors can say whatever they want about it being easier but these reports indicate the reality of the situation and that is that if you are going to quit an opiate (particularly a long half life one) there is price that is going to need to be paid... we can help to minimize that but i believe that its important to prepare people for whats coming (obviously in a way thats not scary or discouraging though)...
  #28  
Old 05-02-2013, 14:32
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

Look love, I can only call it as I find it. I'm not especially strong either physically or emotionally, but I managed to jump from methadone to subutex without that much pain. But perhaps the difference was that when I was reducing from 150mls/mg of methadone to 25mls/mg I was taking an access course at the local college. That took me a year, and as I'd decided during the year that I wanted to study for a degree I had something to look forward to and plan for when I did the jump from methadone to subutex. I was on subutex for 4 weeks (roughly) just leveling out on the subutex before doing a rapid taper from the subutex. It was uncomfortable, but nothing like any wd I'd experienced before. But then I was completely focused on studying for a degree, something that a year before I hadn't even considered. I truly believe that the fear of going from something to nothing, even if it is only for the 36-48 hours it takes to allow a lot of the methadone to leave your system before beginning subutex, that adds to the pain. I mean just think about it, if you're stressed about jumping off after your last dose of methadone then that's what you're gonna be focused on isn't it? When you're stressed you don't eat well, sometimes don't sleep well, feel anxious and uncomfortable, now surely that will just exacerbate any pain you feel, won't it?

You know I'm not trying to fool anyone, mislead or misdirect anyone, I'm just telling it as it was for me. Now if I can do it, then surely that means that others can too? When they're ready that is. And that's something else isn't it? How many people actually quit because they feel they need to, they're under some kinda duress to quit. In that case they'll endure their gradual wd and subsequent quitting. Now that again would make it difficult to get through, make it more uncomfortable, possibly more painful, with them feeling far more fearful than they might have felt had they been doing it through choice, their own choice?

Sparkles.

Last edited by missparkles; 05-02-2013 at 14:37. Reason: typo and addition
  #29  
Old 05-02-2013, 19:59
scartissue_68 scartissue_68 is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soso View Post
bigbadwolf
"withdrawal pussies" ?? sounds insultin to me.
I hope you are joking.

If you really feel this superior, why not "Pain Pussies" for those who need opiates to control pain and bring emotional relief.

Compound Femur? Just walk it off, you big "pain pussy".

Lost both your legs in an IED attack? Lay there and deal with it soldier, you're what we call "Pain Pussy" in my Army.

If you were joking it was in bad taste. If you're not joking, I hope I've made my point.

scartissue_68 added 75 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AskLiesmith View Post
For sleep, Nyquil is an excellent choice.
I am not a recovering addict nor been through real withdrawal symptoms, so I defer to those who are and have first hand knowledge of what the OP is facing, but I must question your suggestion that Nyquil is good for sleep during detox...AFTER taking Pseudoephedrine....or any other time, for that matter....other than for ailments, as indicated on the packaging.

In my personal experience with using Nyquil, as a comfort med (attempting to ease a Cocaine crash), it required overdosing the medication. As in: half a bottle. This is bad because you're getting way too much Acetaminophen, ethanol, dextromethorphan and more antihistamines.

The drug Doxylamine is the sleep aid in Nyquil and is an antihistamine, but is also called a hypnotic. It builds tolerance quickly, so while Nyquil might work for one night, it loses it's ability to induce sleep quickly on successive nights...and let's not overlook the hangover.

Coming off of Coke, the hangover was horrific (actually there is no word in English I can think of to warn you of how bad you'll feel). So, I simply cannot imagine the suffering experience should you wake up in opiate withdrawal AND a Nyquill hangover.

So, there are many reasons to avoid Nyquil as a comfort med or recreational substance.

There are OTC meds with Doxylamine only. Please be careful.

Last edited by scartissue_68; 05-02-2013 at 22:57. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #30  
Old 07-02-2013, 01:39
halo99 halo99 is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by missparkles View Post
Look love, I can only call it as I find it. I'm not especially strong either physically or emotionally, but I managed to jump from methadone to subutex without that much pain. But perhaps the difference was that when I was reducing from 150mls/mg of methadone to 25mls/mg I was taking an access course at the local college. That took me a year, and as I'd decided during the year that I wanted to study for a degree I had something to look forward to and plan for when I did the jump from methadone to subutex. I was on subutex for 4 weeks (roughly) just leveling out on the subutex before doing a rapid taper from the subutex. It was uncomfortable, but nothing like any wd I'd experienced before. But then I was completely focused on studying for a degree, something that a year before I hadn't even considered. I truly believe that the fear of going from something to nothing, even if it is only for the 36-48 hours it takes to allow a lot of the methadone to leave your system before beginning subutex, that adds to the pain. I mean just think about it, if you're stressed about jumping off after your last dose of methadone then that's what you're gonna be focused on isn't it? When you're stressed you don't eat well, sometimes don't sleep well, feel anxious and uncomfortable, now surely that will just exacerbate any pain you feel, won't it?

You know I'm not trying to fool anyone, mislead or misdirect anyone, I'm just telling it as it was for me. Now if I can do it, then surely that means that others can too? When they're ready that is. And that's something else isn't it? How many people actually quit because they feel they need to, they're under some kinda duress to quit. In that case they'll endure their gradual wd and subsequent quitting. Now that again would make it difficult to get through, make it more uncomfortable, possibly more painful, with them feeling far more fearful than they might have felt had they been doing it through choice, their own choice?

Sparkles.
i totally get you arent trying to mislead people... we both have intentions of helping people get through something that honestly very few of us have gotten through... i guess the "in your head" thing is one of my buttons in that i remember hearing that when i got into treatment at MMT... like i was experiencing legit WD's and i remember the doctor telling me it was in my head and that going to NA meetings would help...

the point is that while there is an obvious psychological component to quitting it simply does not change the fact that there are going to be some physical WD symptoms for the vast majority of people that quit and if those people arent prepared for what they are about to endure the likelyhood of making through 7+ days of suboxone WD's is not going to be very good...

i wouldnt be saying this if i hadnt watched 2 of my friends go through exactly that getting off of suboxone... (and at low doses... 0.5 and 0.25 respectively)...
  #31  
Old 26-02-2013, 01:19
scooby73 scooby73 is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

Thanks for the info.I got down to 8ml,ive been waiting for my doc to decide what to gave me for WD when my methadone stops,but still no ans.Ive since gone back up to 15ml+got my weekly takeouts back.Its as if the docs dont want anyone to get off the crap.I really cant wait to get off methadone for good+out ov this nightmare
  #32  
Old 26-02-2013, 03:40
ThatOneGirl:) ThatOneGirl:) is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

Yes you should come off your methadone. I am doing it now (am done doing actually) and I couldn't believe how easy it was. I'm going through PAWS right now but that is it and it's very tolerable if you are completely sick of the liquid handcuff dull boring emotionless life. I quit from 20mg of mtd on the 7th of February this month. This was not my first rodeo of quitting and withdrawls might i add but this way was sooooo much easier. I didnt know how or what to do either but i researched and found a way. Went on kratom from the 7th-16th. Then I took immodium, not even in enormous amounts either, from the 17th-22nd. Then went to absolutely nothing. Well vitamins, exercise, music are key players in this forsure So now I'm just trying to heal my brain and get everything working correctly. But just saying, this way worked for me good luck to you guys and if you have any questions just let me know God Bless <3
  #33  
Old 28-02-2013, 02:38
joesph joesph is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

Hi im new here glad to be here. im going to a methadone clinic, im getting off, ive been at the clinic aug. 22 2012 6 months, The higest dose i was on was 80mgs ive been decreasing 5mgs a week im at 39mgs now. Every tues, i go down 5mgs till i hit 0mgs i hope i can do this that im not going down to fast? im 60 years old i have high blood pressure im takeing meds for that. i dont know if im felling wd right now. But im always cold but i was at my 80mgs a day dose to, and i get lightheaded. nausea but not as much lately. im always nodding out. you would think going down would stop that. it scares me thinking im od ing, i dont take anything but my bloodpresure meds, may b some one can help me thank you. joseph.
  #34  
Old 28-02-2013, 09:04
TheBigBadWolf TheBigBadWolf is offline
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AW: should i come off my methadone?

Joseph,

At first congratulations to your idea to taper off. This is always the hardest step to actually begin reducing.
And you are really doing well so far, let's hope it stays that way.

I'd strongly advise you To go slower from 20 mg downwards.
it's essential to do the weening off as slow As possible. That is no more than 2 mg a week, better still 2 mg in 2 weeks to give your body time to accommodate to the lower dose. at a dose lower than ten *I* would go one mg per week, no faster.
Methadone is known for giving extremely long acute withdrawal phases when jumped off to fast.
I have done this slow tapering regime twice and for me the acute withdrawal phase really was no more than a cold with a bit of a stomach bug and sleeplessness.
Sleep came back to me as long as four weeks after me being on zero mg, stepwise, but got better by the week.

I suppose you look through the related threads on methadone forum, resp. In Recovery&Addiction

We all know that there's no way around a certain amount of withdrawal syndrome, but this can be gone thru with the least discomfort, add some OTC comfort meds in the mix and the w/d will be half as hard as you are thinking now.

with your heightened bloodpressure I think you should have contact to your GP during w/d, dextro-methadone is know to have a bad influence on heart rhythm, changing the QTinterval, whenever you feel roblems with heart beating irregular, please contct the practitioner to get a electro-cardiogram. This doesn>t have to be bad, but there's the chance, so be cautious.

Take care.
BBW
  #35  
Old 28-02-2013, 11:01
soso soso is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

scartissue68

Just to be clear i didnt call anyone a "pain pussy" i was questioning what someone else said in a previous post which has since been edited out because i said it sounds insulting. i was withdrawin off methadone when i read it after many years MMT and took offence to the comment.

SOSO
  #36  
Old 28-02-2013, 11:55
natey7 natey7 is offline
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Re: should i come off my methadone?

My dog writes:

Quote:
I know what you mean mashed. And I definitely get the scary part of it all.
Methadone is one hell of a beast.

Heck, my body doesn't even seem to fully adjust to 40mgs of Methadone a day! So I can`t even imagine how it is for you right now.

CONGRATS on getting as far as you have! That's a really big accomplishment. You should really be patting yourself on the back for that.

When it comes to adjusting, my opinion is that those extra "Opiate receptors" (the one's that were created when we decided to use our DOC), can't actually go into "remission" until all of the Methadone (Opiate/Opioid) is actually out of our system, and we're actually fully committing ourselves to complete sobriety (from Opiates/Opioids).

I also think that once you get to a certain point of your Methadone wean, your dose can only cover so much of those receptors needs, which would exmplain why you feel the way you do at the dose you're at now (which is where the cravings come in at certain points as well for so many of us; it's basically our receptors screaming at us to be "fully" fed)..
You bsically gotta think of where your Methadone's plasma level is at right now to and take that into consideration.

Fortunately, there are certain comfort meds that you can look into to at least to make it easier on yourself. I have heard that consuming a lot of electrolytes can actually really help.
"D-Phenylalanine's" another thing that you can look into for when you feel like you need an extra endorphin boost.. There's a ton of other options out there as well, and things that you can use to your advantage right now and in the future.. you just have to look around for them though. Try searching "Withdrawal Remedies" for example, or "PAWS remedies", etc. and you should be able to find some helpful home remedies that you can use to help take the edge off.

From what I understand though, once you get to a certain point of your wean, you just gotta tough it out basically.

Noone's really found a magic bullet yet, but at least there's things out there that can help take the edge off right?

IMO though, your body/mind can't start creating its own endorphins yet, at least until you are totally off of the Methadone and the artificial Opiate/Opioid is out of your system..

That's why so many see weaning down on Methadone as such a long, drawn-out process (once you get past a certain point of the wean especially)... I've always seen 40mgs as that wall... but that's just for me. I have a very fast metabolism as well, which really doesn't help.

But yeah, I sugesst you look into some helpful "comfort meds" for yourself at this point. As well as "Relapse Prevention Strategies".

I guess you just gotta choose whether or not you wanna draw it out more at this point, while at the same time keeping it milder than it would be going cold-turkey (longer, but milder)..
Or, just rip off that bandaid, and go through more pain all at once (I would suggest stocking up on emergency take-homes, just in case, if you are choosing to go this route. And getting yourself as prepared as possible beforehand). You may want to even wean down a bit more before ripping off that bandaid if that is something you do choose to do. That is all up to you though.

Try to keep in mind though that some say that going too fast is how a lot relapses occur. *

You've come a very long way, like I said above.
And in the end it's virtually your choice. But we can at least try to offer some help .

That's just my two cents on the subject though.

If I were in your shoes myself, I would probably try and continue weaning down slowly and gradually (especially to prevent any more relapses from occurring)..

Hell, I can`t even seem to make it past 40mgs myself though! Ha.

I definitely get the urgency to just want it all to be over with already though. I feel ya there. But you also only want to have to do this thing once right?? That's why doing it right is very important.. More important than, "just getting it over with already" (IMO).

All in all though, I've learned that recovery is a learning process; It doesn't just happen over night.

And relapses are all part of recovery.

I really do hope you can beat this thing!! .. As I know personally just how shitty it can be to live with those liquid hand-cuffs..

I wish you the best of luck mate!
Keep on keeping on!!

Cheers.

Last edited by natey7; 01-03-2013 at 15:22.

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