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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 12-01-2013, 21:23
DiacetylEntertainment DiacetylEntertainment is offline
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Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Hello all,

So recently I have kicked a fairly serious opiate habit. I have about 30 days clean and am just starting to feel close to normal physically. I went to a detox for a week and a residential treatment center for 28 days. I am now currently residing temporarily in a sober house for the time being. We get tested three times a week here. So, getting to the point, now that I am certainly flushed of all traces of opiates, if I were to do a shot or two on lets go with Sunday, would I be able to flush my system by taking around 10mg of Naltrexone on Monday? I would expect minimal to no withdrawal effects.

Basically, would it be better to try to flush with water, or to go the naltrexone work. Hypothetically, I think its sound logic. I can put up with a little pain.

What do you all think?
  #2  
Old 12-01-2013, 23:12
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

I don't think it "flushes" anything out any faster. It's just that your receptors 'prefer' naltrexone & will kick the heroin off the receptors...but the heroin's still there in the background.

If you take naloxone, the heroin's still in your system even though you're in withdrawal. And when the naloxone wears off, the heroin will reattach to the receptors (& you can OD again).

Based on that, I don't believe that it removes it from your system, just displaces it off the receptors.

So, no, it would just potentially cause pain with no reward.


BTW...if you've made it this far, why do you want to backtrack & set yourself up? Do you have any idea how many addicts have said "just this once" & been triggered back into a full run...or worse, never made it back because they fatally OD'd? Jus' sayin'....

~Kailey
  #3  
Old 13-01-2013, 02:12
DiacetylEntertainment DiacetylEntertainment is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Well, too put it simply, I'm what we on the east coast refer to as a "lifer". I understand there is no such thing as chipping, but that is the sad nature of the game. Perhaps when the time comes I will quit for good.

Anyhow, one quick note is that you are confusing naloxone with naltrexone. They are essentially the same, except naltrexone has a much longer half-life. I didn't really consider the idea of the opiate agonist "floating around" while the naltrexone takes over. Even if that were the case, I would still imagine they would leave the system faster then if they stayed binded to the receptors. I know a fair amount of chemistry, but I'm no biologist. Thanks for the input.

Anyone else?
  #4  
Old 13-01-2013, 02:24
mr sic mr sic is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

I totally second what Kailey said--ecspecialy in the BTW part of her post.
I dont believe either naloxone nor naltrexone make your body metabolize and berid of any opiate any quicker.
  #5  
Old 13-01-2013, 02:43
mrMarco mrMarco is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Quote:
DiacetylEntertainment posted... So recently I have kicked a fairly serious opiate habit. I have about 30 days clean and am just starting to feel close to normal physically. I went to a detox for a week and a residential treatment center for 28 days. I am now currently residing temporarily in a sober house for the time being. We get tested three times a week here. So, getting to the point, now that I am certainly flushed of all traces of opiates, if I were to do a shot or two on lets go with Sunday, would I be able to flush my system by taking around 10mg of Naltrexone on Monday? I would expect minimal to no withdrawal effects.
I dont believe that taking Naltrexone will help flush your system in regards to A urine drug screen,
in this test what they look for is the metabolites, they are created as the drug is broken down in your body. I dont see any benefit in taking Naltrexone for this matter it will not help you pass your drug test.
and I myselff have been dealing with a heroin/methadone/benzo addition for the last 10 years and the best advise I can tell you straight from my heart is please dont do it, even if u find a way to use and not be detected, once you deiced to get high once it will pull you in so fast that you have no control and you will be right back to where you where before you got clean.

Basically there's two paths,..you can stay clean and have control of and over you mind and body, "you can chose life"... you have already completed Detox and A 28 day rehab,
You have come A long way and its not easy rd I give you props for hanging in there,

I cant speak on other drugs but I have much experience with oxy and dope/Heroin mostly but I do have experience with other opiates/opioids as well and in general from my experience with these drugs it is so easy to pick right back up from where u left off, basically it all comes down to being dope sick or withdraws and if you start chipping here and there before u know it you need it to go to work to eat to sleep to live and so on......

SO in Conclusion... If you want to stay clean and on the right path and not die, dont even start the thought process of thinking that you can play around and not pick up a habit...IT will always win

PS..: I have had some close Friends die this past year 2012.. 3 just last year and two of them got clean using suboxone and they died because there tolerance was not there, that's when most people OD and die, they get some clean time behind them and they decide to get high because they thought they had it under control but there bodes couldn't handle it.
.YOU are in this category so you would be liable of inadvertently having a "unintended reaction"
an OD

From someone that has been there and knows how it feels, when you think you can use a taste, after being detoxed you can start using and all it takes is 2 or 3 days in a row to pick up a habit where the dope takes control
of you

Naltrexone is also taking daily as a deterrent for some former opiate dependent folks
Naltrexone has a high affinity for and works as blocker rendering opioid receptors full of the narcan/Naltrexone working as blocker of any other opiates witch for me didn't make sense, in you where to have a accident and are in horrible pain and need morphine, it would not work, you would need a huge amount to break trough and they would never give this amount, you would have to weight two or three days for pain relief


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Excellent information given!!!

Last edited by mrMarco; 16-01-2013 at 18:35.
  #6  
Old 13-01-2013, 03:01
ZenobiaSky ZenobiaSky is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiacetylEntertainment View Post
Hello all,

So recently I have kicked a fairly serious opiate habit. I have about 30 days clean and am just starting to feel close to normal physically. I went to a detox for a week and a residential treatment center for 28 days. I am now currently residing temporarily in a sober house for the time being. We get tested three times a week here. So, getting to the point, now that I am certainly flushed of all traces of opiates, if I were to do a shot or two on lets go with Sunday, would I be able to flush my system by taking around 10mg of Naltrexone on Monday? I would expect minimal to no withdrawal effects.

Basically, would it be better to try to flush with water, or to go the naltrexone work. Hypothetically, I think its sound logic. I can put up with a little pain.

What do you all think?
The funny thing is, with addiction our mind will justify anything to allow us to use. So Hypothetically it sounds logical, but chemically it doesn't work that way.

Naltrexone being an opiate receptor antagonist will block the receptors (as pointed out earlier) but does not cause your body to metabolize opiates any faster, they still remain in your system. The only thing the Naltrexone will do is help with the withdraws symptoms. Naloxone is used usually once to reverse the action of opiates in the case of an OD. While naltrexone is meant to be taken on a regular basis to combate opiate addiction, how and why is still being studied as far as opiate addiciton vs alcohol dependence.

Basically, it won't help you pass your drug test. Good luck to you, I know how hard this is. I am 18 days clean today!! Be strong, I believe in you!!!!!


Posted at the same time as MrMarco..... excellent post!!!

Last edited by ZenobiaSky; 13-01-2013 at 03:02. Reason: update
  #7  
Old 13-01-2013, 03:11
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

I wasn't confusing anything. I'm aware that they are different drugs; it's just that they are very similar - naloxone being basically a fast-acting version of naltrexone.

And based upon how I know naloxone works, I wouldn't think naltrexone would work any differently in terms of getting things out of your system faster, seeing as they work the same way.

I'm on the East Coast too, darlin' - I would never label a 20yo a 'lifer'.

All the best,

~Kailey
  #8  
Old 13-01-2013, 12:46
Solinari Solinari is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Nah I certainly wouldn't label a 20 year old a "lifer" either, fuck me!

Naloxone is basically just a faster acting version of naltrexone like Kaiely said, much shorter half life by a fair margin (relatively speaking), I am not sure about the binding affinity of naltrexone and if it's comparable to naloxone. In any case it doesn't work and it doesn't work for the same reason in the case of an overdose when someone is given naloxone they can lapse back in to it after 20 - 30 minutes after a dose of naloxone and the reason is the heroin doesn't just evaporate in to the ether and disappear and it isn't like antiheroin that when in contact with heroin they annihilate each other, the heroin will still remain.

It's not far off the same reason "flushing with water" doesn't work either. The heroin is still going to be there and the half life remains the half life. The only reason people seem to think water works is because it can dilute the urine to below detection thresholds but it doesn't "flush out" anything.

Last edited by Solinari; 15-01-2013 at 20:02.
  #9  
Old 14-01-2013, 18:52
mu_agonasm mu_agonasm is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

The opiates don't actually "stick" on the receptors. They bind for a tiny amount of time and then fall off, only to be replaced by another opiate molecule, until the concentration of opiate decreases. Naltrexone having a higher affinity means that even if heroin, for example, is present in the same concentration, the naltrexone will bind the receptor instead of the heroin.

The rate of clearance will be the same, because receptor binding has nothing to do with half life.

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Excellent post! Simple yet eloquent - heroin's "rate of clearance will be the same, because receptor binding has nothing to do with half life" fantastic breakdown! :)
  #10  
Old 16-01-2013, 17:26
DiacetylEntertainment DiacetylEntertainment is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Thank you to those who answered my question.

Kailey Elise - I just saw you are from MA too. I know I am young but I am in no way opiate naive. Like I said earlier, maybe one day I will quit for good but I am not no where near that point yet. I have followed quite a few of your posts around DF, so thank you for posting in my thread. I didn't mean to come off as rude, if I did. Thank you.

Zenobia Sky - I wasn't justifying anything. I had already made up my mind to use. I was hypothesizing that if the agonist has nothing to bind to, would it leave your system faster... Naltrexone does not help with withdrawl symptoms also. I have talked with many a psychiatrists, and all have told me the anti-craving effects are placebo. There is no known reason for giving naltrexone to alchoholics other than statistically they had a slightly better relapse prevention rate during studies.

Solinari - Thanks for the info on the water flushing thing as well. I always assumed the only benefit of that was for diluting tests, not flushing.

MrMarco - I appreciate your post. I welcome the words of encouragement, god knows I need them, I have decided not to use for now, but who knows about the future.

Thank you all for your posts. I got the information I needed.
  #11  
Old 17-01-2013, 21:29
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiacetylEntertainment View Post
Thank you to those who answered my question.

Kailey Elise - I just saw you are from MA too. I know I am young but I am in no way opiate naive. Like I said earlier, maybe one day I will quit for good but I am not no where near that point yet. I have followed quite a few of your posts around DF, so thank you for posting in my thread. I didn't mean to come off as rude, if I did. Thank you.
No problem.

& I wasn't insinuating that you're a newbie to the scene - just that I'd never consider someone who's 20 years old a "lifer". I always get so sad when I see 18-21 year olds coming into the methadone clinic...either thinking they're getting a 'free high' or considering themselves beyond hope. Anyway, that's starting to go WAAAAY off-topic to your thread, so...

I'm glad you've decided not to get high right now. Please be sure to weigh the pros & cons if you have a desire again in the future, and make sure to do it as safely as possible if you do decide to go through with it! At $3/bag, there's absolutely no reason not to be using a new needle every time! Plus, one can visit the needle exchange in Cambridge or Lynn so easily...

Anyway. Good luck in your program!

~Kailey
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Old 18-01-2013, 07:13
ZenobiaSky ZenobiaSky is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiacetylEntertainment View Post
Thank you to those who answered my question.

Zenobia Sky - I wasn't justifying anything. I had already made up my mind to use. I was hypothesizing that if the agonist has nothing to bind to, would it leave your system faster... Naltrexone does not help with withdrawl symptoms also. I have talked with many a psychiatrists, and all have told me the anti-craving effects are placebo. There is no known reason for giving naltrexone to alchoholics other than statistically they had a slightly better relapse prevention rate during studies.
I didn't mean to make you feel as if you needed to go on the defensive. I was only trying to help, and offer you support. As far as cravings, no Naltrexone does not help with that, and I never claimed it did. I was talking about withdraw symptoms. There is a lot of research you can check out by doing a simple "google" search, or even searching the DF.
I truly do wish the best for you, no one is a lifer at 20. Good luck to you!
  #13  
Old 21-01-2013, 10:06
moneyman5377 moneyman5377 is offline
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Re: Using Naltrexone to flush system of opiates

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiacetylEntertainment View Post
Hello all,

So recently I have kicked a fairly serious opiate habit. I have about 30 days clean and am just starting to feel close to normal physically. I went to a detox for a week and a residential treatment center for 28 days. I am now currently residing temporarily in a sober house for the time being. We get tested three times a week here. So, getting to the point, now that I am certainly flushed of all traces of opiates, if I were to do a shot or two on lets go with Sunday, would I be able to flush my system by taking around 10mg of Naltrexone on Monday? I would expect minimal to no withdrawal effects.

Basically, would it be better to try to flush with water, or to go the naltrexone work. Hypothetically, I think its sound logic. I can put up with a little pain.

What do you all think?
Man i feel you after being clean wanting to use that "1" time. No matter how long youve been clean as soon as it hits ur system i guarantee you will say alright i didnt really get high so il just get high as fuck 1 time so ul grab a little more. Im not saying your guaranteed to just say fuck it and get back on. But you will feel shitty from that use. Just happened to me 2 days ago. I was only 15 days clean but ive been 30 days and did same thing. And you wont feel like hell but ul get some sweats and heavier cravings and its just not worth it. I know once u make up your mind its just hard to change it cuz you just go in that mode where u think ur getting it and its just a bad situation. i bet about a month ago before you quit you probably dreamed of being 30 days clean. And even at 30 days you come to realize that sober life at beginning still sucks because your just kinda bored and things you did before heroin or opiates came in your life just dont really cut it. Im very pissed i did h 2 days ago after being clean cuz it made the next night hell. Not cuz of full withdrawal but just the fact you worked so hard to just get away and our minds usually have euphoric recall so its easy to glamorize it after being sober even if you remember how shitty it was you will still remember being fucked up as the best and that will trump all the negativity about the drug. Hope you fought the urge man. If you didnt and you did it just stop now even if you know ul go thru wd. Good luck to you all on fighting this shit

moneyman5377 added 10 Minutes and 59 Seconds later...

Diacetyl your situation just sounds so much like mine about a year and a half ago before i commited to quitting. Granted i didnt quit but i was week on week off the whole year. I know since you said you feel theres no way at your point to stop for good then well you probably wont because anyone can stay clean in detox in rehab. Just know that your life will get worse no matter what. I dont care if you won the lottery or got a great job. As long as your on D you will fuck it up. Being 20 it doesnt matter your past. Im 26 and still lucky to be making some progress. But at 20 anything youve done in the past can be made up. Im not a 12 step person or anything just not for me, but man find something to do that you enjoy even if you force urself to do it. Because i saw you said you dont feel your justifying a reason to use because you already made your mind up. But kinda are justifying it in a way because your hoping that the naloxone or flushing will make it easier on you. And if you didnt have the thought in your mind that something might help ease any shitty feeling you have then you may not have wanted to use as bad. Sorry kind of rambling but shit, I justify too. Everyone does. I always say I can just do it tonight i dont got shit to do tomorrow so who cares if i feel shitty. But when the time comes you really do care and thats when my sobriety is gone lol. Sorry for just rambling

Last edited by moneyman5377; 21-01-2013 at 10:06. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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