Drugs-Forum  
Home Wiki Studies Forum Groups Blog Video Images News
Go Back   Drugs Forum > VARIOUS DRUG RELATED TOPICS > Law and order > Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics
Mark Forums Read
Register Tags

Notices

Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics The war on drugs, drug politics, how drugs influence politics & (inter)national conflicts.

 
Thread Tools
  #26  
Old 13-10-2012, 06:50
Twizal Twizal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: 13-07-2012
Female from Australia
Posts: 273
Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

[QUOTE=Basoodler;1196514]Sorry but its not a good comparison.. culture used to be based on personal responsibility and now a large portion of the population has no idea what personal responsibility is.

People as a whole don't change that significantly ,if the good old days were that good and personal responsibility so evident give some then and now stats...I think you'll find we were able to hide the nasties better before that's all.

Scar tissue I agree with all you said , as long as there was strict control by gov regarding standards of care offered ,similar to accreditation to ensure all areas of drug use were offered..via referral systems etc also needs gov funding which would be available as hospitals,courts,jails ,policing would see a large reduction in drug related problems. However if you let people simply pop in for a quick one or six I don't think the other areas of addiction would be addressed . The folks who get sick would end up back on the streets and doing crime.

I have a problem with letting any company being totally responsible for anything I feel is a basic human right. The private jail system here is pretty bad as one example.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Good talking points.
  #27  
Old 13-10-2012, 06:51
amino amino is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 29-12-2010
Male from United States
Posts: 43
amino is a decent psychonaut.
Points: 70, Level: 1 Points: 70, Level: 1 Points: 70, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Prohibition and The War On Drugs have resulted in the incarceration of millions of people. Having a criminal record generally destroys a person's ability to make a decent living. Putting one or both parents behind bars certainly doesn't create a happy childhood for the kids of these people, who left angry, financially disadvantaged, unsupervised, with an absent and broken family are logically at a much greater risk to get involved with drugs themselves than children from stable families. And being in prison or even jail is a great place to meet new drug contacts. There may be a few people who change their lives while in prison, but the vast majority come out facing insurmountable financial obstacles, social ostracization, and a degree in being a criminal. How could one live 24/7 surrounded by criminals and not be affected?

So how does one deal with pressures of this magnitude? With drugs of course. Prohibition is not working. If anything it's destroying us. And it's all so unnecessary. The Anti-Drug Industry has no incentive to win this war. If they did they'd have no purpose. So instead they create hysteria and propaganda so the public will pressure the politicians to funnel more money to fight the scourge. And all they've accomplished is to create a huge criminal underground, not answerable to any rule of law except their own brand of justice through violence.

And all this because some people want to control what others ingest into their own bodies. It's insanity. Some of it is ideological with roots in our Puritan ancestors. The very idea of taking a substance to feel good is just wrong to many people and they would rather throw you in jail than let you experience euphoria. In the 1960's and early 70's there was a large and comparatively open drug culture. And in my opinion it helped millions of people open up to new ways of thinking that had profound effects on art, music, social movements, spirituality, ecological awareness, psychology, science, politics, technology, etc. We're still experiencing these things decades later. To the reactionary segment of the population, this was a terrible and scary time. They blame the continuing social problems we have today that era and "the drugs". But for most people the world is a better place now than it was in the repressed 50's (and fascist 40's) world of sexism, racism, homophobia, neurotic sexual frustration, segregated, world of ignorance is bliss.

So drugs do and always have played a role in human life. It's our choice whether we use them to progress or simply as a reason to incarcerate half the population, while sedating the other half into submission. As it stands now, drugs already permeate every aspect of our life, from Starbucks to kids on ritalin, from CEO's snorting coke to housewives popping benzos. From rightwing talk show hosts shooting oxycontin to musicians shooting heroin. And if they're not addicted to an actual substance then they're addicted to something which has the same effect on the brain like video games, sex, religion, sugar, cutting, maxing out credit cards.

In my opinion if you want to stop this then legalize ALL drugs and make them available for very cheap or even free. If people committ crimes while on them, then arrest them for those crimes. The money saved from the drug war, enforcement, prisons, etc. would more than pay for it. This would cause two things to happen. 1.) drug addicts would now have one main problem to deal with - their addiction, instead of financial problems, legal problems, unemployment, incarceration, having to hide their usage, the need to constantly go out and buy more stuff or steal it. It's a lot easier to deal with an addiction when you don't have all those other things hanging over your head and the depression and stress that accompany them. Sure, some will probably choose to just stay high all the time and not be productive. That's going to be a fact, but at least they won't need to steal to get what they want. With no challenge, it would be a boring life. I just don't think that simply because something is available that most people are going to throw away their life and not want more. Alcohol is cheap and legal, but most people are not alcoholics. Same with cigarettes. And with the threat of legal consequences it would be easier to seek help.

The second thing to happen would be the black market would collapse. They wouldn't have a purpose. This would drastically reduce crime. Law enforcement would be freed up to handle those who get out of control, but the drug which causes the most rowdy public behavior, alcohol, is already legal. Pot users tend to sit around eating. Stimulant users will be too busy cleaning their house or chatting non-stop on the net. Opiate users tend to just nod off. Hallucinogen users could be kept busy entertaining kids in pre-schools. Society will not fall apart. If anything it might be an improvement.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Well stated.
  #28  
Old 13-10-2012, 12:50
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Yea culture does change that much..

In 1903 if you didnt work.. or hunt .. you starved to death.

So I am sure there were less assholes sitting on their asses getting high.all day and only working enough hours yearly to qualify for a tax refund
  #29  
Old 13-10-2012, 14:15
Twizal Twizal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: 13-07-2012
Female from Australia
Posts: 273
Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

[QUOTE=Basoodler;1196759]Yea culture does change that much..

In 1903 if you didnt work.. or hunt .. you starved to death.

Still happens in plenty of places in the world today, often because giant corporations are raping peoples ' land. Like I said people are people...

Drug legalisation IMHO is necessary and the only viable option. Of course it presents difficulties ,you are right about crack users who become violent posing problems .do all users do this? What is the percentage? I don't know ,my understanding of crack use is limited to a handful of in patients getting clean and 2 acquaintances .none of which exhibited the behaviour you described. I don't know what a crack head flea market is but if their existence is so awful to the public surely this needs to be addressed? I realise you think legalising crack will have these markets being duplicated ,so how do you manage it to prevent that.? Again research needs to be done ,hype and myth dissolved and see what's left to work with.

By the way ,Happy Birthday HaZie hope it was a good one. X

Post Quality Evaluations:
"people are people" I've spent years and years studying philosophy; that phrase is one of the FEW thruths I've come across!
  #30  
Old 13-10-2012, 16:09
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

I wrote a long ass post when you asked how I would go about legalizing drugs .. go back a page if you missed it.

I dont think there will ever be legalization as you describe because a large percent of the population would never allow it. Not to mention I feel that drugs need to be studied before making them legal.. and people should have to be tested in drug safety and harm reduction (general knowledge too) before they can purchase any drugs.

Some of our illegal drugs only exist because of prohibition and do more harm than good. I you are taking a common since approach using scientific research to base decisions on what drugs ate available you can eliminate the shitty ones.. crack

Then you look at drugs like heroin and because you can now have open research .. you find a less harmful alternative.

You can't just make things available that tend to destroy lives.. alcohol is bad enough for now..

If decent recreational drugs are available.. like mdma and powder cocaine.. people will go with those and avoid ones that are more harmful.. opening the gates to the scientific community will allow for even safer euphoriants to be made. Meth for example is a street drug because its powerful and can easily be made.. you dont even need a lab.. I'm pretty sure if drugs are legal a less harmful substitution can be made available.. why would we settle for a drug just because its currently available.. let science work to find better options..

You guys are ignoring major flaws with drugs.. just legalizing will not reduce drug related crime.. it will just divert it to new types of crime.. people lose their shit on drugs and that won't improve with legalization.

Account for human nature here.. also the welfare milking population is in 20% range in the USA. And that unproductive portion of society is really making it hard on the government / economy.

Don't act like you don't know who I am talking about

Lol and what would all the ghetto guys do for extra money.. they already milk baby mommies for food and shelter.. sell drugs for spending money.. hell I've been in neighborhoods where 5 dealers hang at the trap and take turns selling crack or pills.. all proceeded go to new shoes , cars jewelry etc.. they get food from their multiple baby mommies.. who get theirs from welfare..

What are those guys going to do for spending money? Lol a legit job as an option will never cross their minds. And this example is not an exaggeration. Its reality..

Its sad but I know a few of the baby mommies and some of the guys.. its engrained in that culture so deeply that those girls don't expect monogomy or expect child support or help raising the kids.. its sad.

Then you have the white trash culture of evading work, knowledge of how to maximize benefits, having a set amount of children only to maximize benefits. Working jobs for a couple months to meet the standards to get a tax refund.. selling food stamps .. despite having kids.. even using government medical card to get powerful opiates and selling them at street prices and making a mint.. ever notice that cars are generally nice in projects and trailer parks .. and you see more beaters in lower middle class neighborhoods where the people have jobs

Last edited by Basoodler; 13-10-2012 at 17:24.
  #31  
Old 13-10-2012, 19:57
scartissue_68 scartissue_68 is offline
Palladium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
64 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 508
scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.
Points: 1,395, Level: 5 Points: 1,395, Level: 5 Points: 1,395, Level: 5
Activity: 3.6% Activity: 3.6% Activity: 3.6%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Quote:
I wrote a long ass post when you asked how I would go about legalizing drugs .. go back a page if you missed it.

I dont think there will ever be legalization as you describe because a large percent of the population would never allow it.
Probably true. Ignorance and hysteria about recreational drug use in the US is bi-polar. We spend private billions advertising alcohol and public billions incarcerating people for drugs that are far less dangerous.

Quote:
Not to mention I feel that drugs need to be studied before making them legal.. and people should have to be tested in drug safety and harm reduction (general knowledge too) before they can purchase any drugs.
A bit illogical. Doctors don't even run tests before prescribing most anti-depressant or anti-anxiety drugs now. Creating a bureaucracy that would have to be ridiculously large, just to validate someone's desire for a recreational substance is very close to the system we have now. How's that working out for us?

Quote:
Some of our illegal drugs only exist because of prohibition and do more harm than good. I you are taking a common since approach using scientific research to base decisions on what drugs ate available you can eliminate the shitty ones.. crack
OK. Here's my bottom line. If a drug is user friendly, pure and dispensed with accurate weight and dosage measurements people may use it throughout their adult lifetime. User friendly drugs would be defined (by me) as those which allow you to eat, sleep, work in a productive job, have sex and live life with a sense of right and wrong.

Drugs that are not user friendly (the opposite of the criteria I've outline for "friendly" drugs), when abused, quickly cause the user to make the choice between quitting, living a life of misery or death.

Generally opiates, tranquilizers, MJ, psychedelics etc are friendly. Stimulants, dissociativess, dilleriants, etc. are not friendly.

Using Crack will quickly cause the user to make the lifestyle choices I have listed. Pure Free Base Cocaine (Crack) will not be a popular drug if all drugs were legal. Look at real life now. Crack users are dramatic examples of those wanting to create the hysteria that created the War on Drugs, back in 1903. Doses can be regulated and personal choices must be trusted. Example: The Original Coca-Cola can be brought back to the free market.

Quote:
Then you look at drugs like heroin and because you can now have open research .. you find a less harmful alternative.

You can't just make things available that tend to destroy lives.. alcohol is bad enough for now..
Pure Heroin is far less dangerous than alcohol when you consider liver and major organ toxicity. Under the free market, better, less addicting euphoriants will be developed, but arguing safety comparisons using alcohol, only justifies how society deals with the most popular, legal drug.


Quote:
If decent recreational drugs are available.. like mdma and powder cocaine.. people will go with those and avoid ones that are more harmful.. opening the gates to the scientific community will allow for even safer euphoriants to be made.
Agreed.

Quote:
Meth for example is a street drug because its powerful and can easily be made.. you dont even need a lab.. I'm pretty sure if drugs are legal a less harmful substitution can be made available.. why would we settle for a drug just because its currently available.. let science work to find better options..
Methamphetamine is legal and pure now in drug called Desoxyn. The problem with meth is the black market method of manufacturing (same for Coke, Heroin and many other Schedule 1 drugs). Science has already invented a better meth, the problem is no doctor will prescribe it unless you are incredibly obese or super-ADHD.


Quote:
You guys are ignoring major flaws with drugs.. just legalizing will not reduce drug related crime.. it will just divert it to new types of crime.. people lose their shit on drugs and that won't improve with legalization.

Account for human nature here.. also the welfare milking population is in 20% range in the USA. And that unproductive portion of society is really making it hard on the government / economy.

Don't act like you don't know who I am talking about
I know exactly what your talking about, but with Prohibition of alcohol in the US as an example, your arguing with History, not my opinion.

Quote:
Lol and what would all the ghetto guys do for extra money.. they already milk baby mommies for food and shelter.. sell drugs for spending money.. hell I've been in neighborhoods where 5 dealers hang at the trap and take turns selling crack or pills.. all proceeded go to new shoes , cars jewelry etc.. they get food from their multiple baby mommies.. who get theirs from welfare..

What are those guys going to do for spending money? Lol a legit job as an option will never cross their minds. And this example is not an exaggeration. Its reality..

Its sad but I know a few of the baby mommies and some of the guys.. its engrained in that culture so deeply that those girls don't expect monogomy or expect child support or help raising the kids.. its sad.

Then you have the white trash culture of evading work, knowledge of how to maximize benefits, having a set amount of children only to maximize benefits. Working jobs for a couple months to meet the standards to get a tax refund.. selling food stamps .. despite having kids.. even using government medical card to get powerful opiates and selling them at street prices and making a mint.. ever notice that cars are generally nice in projects and trailer parks .. and you see more beaters in lower middle class neighborhoods where the people have jobs
Agree with your summation of the welfare state and it's damage to all of society, but assuming if you jerk the "drug-rug" away from indigents or major league criminal cartels will only create a new "black market" of some yet to be named basis or exchange is simply "guessing."

Back in the mid 90's, the US passed a major welfare reform law that required those who are capable to work or their welfare would be cut-off. Well, many went to work. Again there is a reality that we can look to to predict societal behavior.

It's all or nothing. Nothing has cost us billions and added fuel to the fire of world wide criminal cartels and narco-terrorism. Millions have died from "rotten"/unregulated product and crossing the path of those profiting from our societal stupidity.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Excellent discussion points.
  #32  
Old 14-10-2012, 12:25
monkeyspanker monkeyspanker is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 31-03-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 352
monkeyspanker is on the way upmonkeyspanker is on the way upmonkeyspanker is on the way upmonkeyspanker is on the way up
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
I wrote a long ass post when you asked how I would go about legalizing drugs .. go back a page if you missed it.

I don't think there will ever be legalization as you describe because a large percent of the population would never allow it. Not to mention I feel that drugs need to be studied before making them legal.. and people should have to be tested in drug safety and harm reduction (general knowledge too) before they can purchase any drugs.
I agree with that, the general population in the USA at least will never go for it however, how would you describe the growing movement of legal marijuana use for medical purposes? I'm not speaking about the folks using stomach issues and having trouble eating going through chemo? The foot is in the door buddy, it just needs a bigger push...'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
Some of our illegal drugs only exist because of prohibition and do more harm than good. I you are taking a common sense approach using scientific research to base decisions on what drugs are available you can eliminate the shitty ones.. crack
Please don't say one drug is worse than another ie; "shitty ones", you are not us, we are not you, some folks can handle a drug when others cannot, no harm no foul bud, use discretion in the future please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
Then you look at drugs like heroin and because you can now have open research .. you find a less harmful alternative.
See my above response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
You can't just make things available that tend to destroy lives.. alcohol is bad enough for now..
Yep, don't forget tobacco!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
If decent recreational drugs are available.. like mdma and powder cocaine.. people will go with those and avoid ones that are more harmful.. opening the gates to the scientific community will allow for even safer euphoriants to be made. Meth for example is a street drug because its powerful and can easily be made.. you dont even need a lab.. I'm pretty sure if drugs are legal a less harmful substitution can be made available.. why would we settle for a drug just because its currently available.. let science work to find better options..
There are and will never will be decent RC drugs, the makers are to busy figuring out ways to make more money end circumvent current laws in the country's they sell in to make that happen. The old days of pure MdMa are long gone buddy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
You guys are ignoring major flaws with drugs.. just legalizing will not reduce drug related crime.. it will just divert it to new types of crime.. people lose their shit on drugs and that won't improve with legalization.
Dead right and spot on there!!

Account for human nature here.. also the welfare milking population is in 20% range in the USA. And that unproductive portion of society is really making it hard on the government / economy.

Don't act like you don't know who I am talking about

Lol and what would all the ghetto guys do for extra money.. they already milk baby mommies for food and shelter.. sell drugs for spending money.. hell I've been in neighborhoods where 5 dealers hang at the trap and take turns selling crack or pills.. all proceeded go to new shoes , cars jewelry etc.. they get food from their multiple baby mommies.. who get theirs from welfare..

What are those guys going to do for spending money? Lol a legit job as an option will never cross their minds. And this example is not an exaggeration. Its reality..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
Its sad but I know a few of the baby mommies and some of the guys.. its engrained in that culture so deeply that those girls don't expect monogomy or expect child support or help raising the kids.. its sad.
And I as well, very sad, one of them is my baby sister

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
Then you have the white trash culture of evading work, knowledge of how to maximize benefits, having a set amount of children only to maximize benefits. Working jobs for a couple months to meet the standards to get a tax refund.. selling food stamps .. despite having kids.. even using government medical card to get powerful opiates and selling them at street prices and making a mint.. ever notice that cars are generally nice in projects and trailer parks .. and you see more beaters in lower middle class neighborhoods where the people have jobs
I'm going to 'go there' now, you sir, have just obiterated the right of folks here in the USA to live how they chose, and how they can/are able to right now. I've lived in penthouses in Manhattan, large estates here in the SW, lived in a few trailer parks and then back to some wonderful homes, now back in the 'projects' but just for now...I agree there are abusers in our system here in the USA, the nature of the beast, open your borders and you get what you pay for..and we do pay, my home state is awash in debt from lazy shitheads that just want to bleed us dry, they have not a care, going to the DES to renew with ill behaved children, arriving in a Lexus or an Infinity sedan....I hear ya on that!!

I'm not sorry to pick your post apart Bassoodler, I just felt my voice come out in response to yours..s'all good!!
  #33  
Old 14-10-2012, 14:18
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

I. Am all for having the right to choose. If you are saying that the legalization of MJ is like having a foot in the door for total legalization. You are dead wrong. In reality most people have smoked weed .. from the richest of the rich to the poor. From the bar flies spreading disease to the loyal house wife..

The case being made for legalization of MJ is fairly accurate and a large portion of the population know it.. so weed will be legal eventually.

Now most people have not tried hard drugs.. that are not prescribed. The only thing most people know about them is propaganda .. that is Actually backed up in a major way by the drug using culture.

When an ordinary person encounters a drug user (in public). They generally are dirty, twitching, with bug eyes that resemble a zombie and look down right scary. I know that isn't all drug users.. but the few are making one hell of a case for not legalizing jobs.. aside from from how they look, they behave in degenerate patterns. Always stealing, always bumming money in parking lots with a retarded excuse, shoplifting, countless domestic violence calls and stupid calls for the police over nothing, and family members have to hide valuables when they come around.

People care about these people and its devastating and heart wrenching.

Also a large portion of the nation either knows somebody, has a family member or loved one who has died an untimely death.. in my home state the #1 cause of of accidental death I'd opiate overdose.

^ that's why it will never be legal to have all drugs.. and why the cost of the war on drugs is with it to most people.

Its the drug users themselves making a case for fighting the unjust war.. and I don't see that changing

I'm strongly against the war on drugs.. but if my daughter fell in to that trap I'd volunteer my knowledge and time to royally fuck the assholes that enabled her..

And I'm guessing that passion is justified in the eyes of a loved one.

I know a lot of people who are caught in the hard core culture.. I've seen dealers visit people who just got out of rehab and cut lines in front of them.. I've lost my share of buddies, I've seen my class valedictorian go from Med school to dead in 3 months .. the mother of my child struggles with meth.. I hate the bitch but I have to parent her for the sake of my daughter.. I lost a really high paying job in the last year because I saw my boss buying oxycontin at work.. I couldn't bring myself to narc.. and he took my ass out by convincing my superiors that I was not doing the job. He is now in prison for stealing C2 pain killers from the pharmacy.. but not before he got me fired.

I had a high school buddy rob me late at night at a grocery store.. even though I knew his name.. he was a smart kid until meth got him.. he made it 1 mile down the street before getting arrested..

I can tell you about all of my dead best friends..

^ why I am forced to have the opinion that not all drugs should be legal

Last edited by Basoodler; 14-10-2012 at 15:04.
  #34  
Old 18-10-2012, 10:30
Grimace Grimace is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 08-03-2012
40 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 194
Blog Entries: 1
Grimace probably knows what they are talking about.Grimace probably knows what they are talking about.Grimace probably knows what they are talking about.Grimace probably knows what they are talking about.Grimace probably knows what they are talking about.
Points: 576, Level: 3 Points: 576, Level: 3 Points: 576, Level: 3
Activity: 13.3% Activity: 13.3% Activity: 13.3%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

This year alone, as of O'dark-thirty on October 17/18, the United States has:

Spent $35.5 billion dollars on the "War on Drugs"
Arrested 1.3 million people for drug crimes (half of them for cannabis)
Sentenced 8,649 prisoners to jail/prison for drug crimes.
http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock

I want to see a world where that doesn't happen. What would that world looks like?
  #35  
Old 18-10-2012, 13:37
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Hmm if we legalize MJ those numbers would drastically fall.

Anyone know off hand how its polling in Washington state?
  #36  
Old 19-10-2012, 00:56
Politicalchalk Politicalchalk is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 18-06-2007
Male from United States
Posts: 349
Politicalchalk probably knows what they are talking about.Politicalchalk probably knows what they are talking about.Politicalchalk probably knows what they are talking about.Politicalchalk probably knows what they are talking about.Politicalchalk probably knows what they are talking about.
Points: 751, Level: 4 Points: 751, Level: 4 Points: 751, Level: 4
Activity: 1.3% Activity: 1.3% Activity: 1.3%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Portugal. It would look something like Portugal. but more American.
  #37  
Old 19-10-2012, 08:28
Doctor Who Doctor Who is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 09-01-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 299
Doctor Who is captain of the psychonauts.Doctor Who is captain of the psychonauts.Doctor Who is captain of the psychonauts.
Points: 482, Level: 3 Points: 482, Level: 3 Points: 482, Level: 3
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

LEGALIZED DRUGS? YA Wanna Hear Plain Talk? Can Ya Take A Dose of Truth?

> Organized Crime & All the Drug Cops, Politicians, Lawyers & Bankers on Their PAY-ROLL will take a $500 Billion Dollar A Year Pay-Cut...
Once Their Hellish Conspiracy to PROFIT from Human Suffering & Misery is SMASHED Once & for All. ( I know, I know... Dream-On )

> They Will Be the Only Losers! Everyone Else on Earth the Winners!

> FREEDOM & BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS Restored! ( my little sister won't have to DIE in PAIN because doctors are afraid to treat her due to the "drug-cops" war on chronic pain patients! )

> Cause, You Tell Me.... Just Who In Hell Gave ANYONE the Right to PLAY GOD & Claim to OWN YOUR BODY & MIND by Deciding What Substance You Can Choose or Choose Not to Consume???

> It's YOUR BODY! IT'S YOUR MIND!!! YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING & NOT A SLAVE to the SYSTEM!!!

> THEY Claim to OWN Your Body When They Say You Can't Smoke This or Consume That!

> THEY Claim to OWN Your Mind When Your Freedom of Religion based on Natural Entheogens is Denied!

> Ya Don't Like it What I'm Saying? Well, Neither Do I - But Someone Needs to Say It!

> Some Silly People Think Legal Dope Will Cause Everyone to Go... WHOOOPEEE & OVERDOSE & DIE!

> Well, What's Happening Now? More People DIE from Bullets fired in the "drug-war" than from "Dope!"

> Some Brainless Jerks Eat-Up the System's Propaganda like a New Pup Eats SH!T off the sidewalk.

> Let's consider Methamphetamine. Now there is a Drug that has been thoroughly Demonized.

> Most people think Meth is just plain bad, but like any other drug, it can be, and is, used without harm by lots of people.

> The US military gives Amphetamine to its pilots to help them stay awake while they are carpet-bombing Third World civilians. But you don't see whoever the current Drug Czar is trumpeting that fact.

> They will always pick out some pathetic junkie who got strung out on meth, and then claim that it is the fault of the drug. And unless we keep meth super-outlawed, your kids are going to wind up like that junkie.

> What Faulty Reasoning! That is like pointing to a Wino lying drunk in the gutter and saying,
Look what an evil substance wine is. We must protect our children from the menace of wine!

> Let's have the death penalty for wine traffickers! If that's what it takes to protect our kids from wine,
then I'm in favor of it.

> Look how stupid that is. I don't think anyone but the most maniacal prohibitionist would actually say that about wine, but the fact is, it's the same for every other drug. Some people can't handle various drugs, but that's no reason to make them generally illegal for everyone. Some people can't drive cars without causing harm, but cars should be generally available. Same with guns, or anything else. General prohibition is stupid, and can only be maintained by increasing stupidity.

> You can only maintain general prohibition by demonizing the prohibited item.

> We are living in a truly Insane Society, and it is a task just to try to keep your head clear.

> You Really Can't Believe Anything THEY SAY.

PEACE!
  #38  
Old 19-10-2012, 13:47
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Quote:
OK. Here's my bottom line. If a drug is user friendly, pure and dispensed with accurate weight and dosage measurements people may use it throughout their adult lifetime. User friendly drugs would be defined (by me) as those which allow you to eat, sleep, work in a productive job, have sex and live life with a sense of right and wrong.
Quote:
Pure Heroin is far less dangerous than alcohol when you consider liver and major organ toxicity.
Quote:
OK. Here's my bottom line. If a drug is user friendly, pure and dispensed with accurate weight and dosage measurements people may use it throughout their adult lifetime.

see link and statistics posted below. Pure - simi legal - pre-dosed pain killers are surpassing car accidents And in a lot of states are the LEADING cause of accidental death.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ade/51027242/1

Quote:
Prescription pain killers are becoming more and more of a threat, to the point that a group of doctors is urging the FDA to change labeling directions on how and when physicians should prescribe them.

Overdose has surpassed car wrecks as the number one cause of accidental death nationally, with the CDC blaming skyrocketing prescription pain killers for the increase.
http://www.wwl.com/Drug-overdose-the...-deat/13846388

Quote:
Poisoning is the leading cause of death from injury in 30 states.
In 2008, poisoning was the leading cause of injury death in the following 30 states: Alaska,
Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana,
Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire,
New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont,
Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin (Figure 2).
In 2008, age-adjusted poisoning death rates varied by state, ranging from 7.6 to 30.8 per 100,000
population. In 20 states, the age-adjusted poisoning death rate was signifi cantly higher than the
U.S. rate of 13.4 deaths per 100,000 population.
The fi ve states with the highest poisoning death rates were New Mexico (30.8), West Virginia
(27.6), Alaska (24.2), Nevada (21.0), and Utah (20.8). In 43 states over 80% of poisoning deaths
were caused by drugs
Quote:
Opioid analgesics were involved in more than 40% of drug poisoning
deaths in 2008.
Of the 36,500 drug poisoning deaths in 2008, more than 40% (14,800) involved opioid analgesics
(Figure 3). For about one-third (12,400) of the drug poisoning deaths, the type of drug(s) involved
was specifi ed on the death certifi cate but it was not an opioid analgesic. The remaining 25%
involved drugs, but the type of drugs involved was not specifi ed on the death certifi cate (for
example, “drug overdose” or “multiple drug intoxication” was written on the death certifi cate).

From 1999 to 2008, the number of drug poisoning deaths involving opioid analgesics increased
from about 4,000 to 14,800, more rapidly than deaths involving only other types of drugs or only
nonspecifi ed drugs.
From 1999 to 2008, the number of drug poisoning deaths involving only nonspecifi ed drugs
increased from about 3,600 to about 9,200. Some drug poisoning deaths for which the drug was
not specifi ed may involve opioid analgesics.
Quote:
n 2009, 28,754 (91 percent) of all unintentional poisoning deaths were caused by drugs. The class of drugs known as prescription painkillers, which includes such drugs as methadone, hydrocodone, and oxycodone, was most commonly involved, followed by cocaine and heroin.4
m6106qsf.gif <------

taken from the document

Drug Poisoning Deaths in the United States, 1980–2008
Margaret Warner, Ph.D.; Li Hui Chen, Ph.D.; Diane M. Makuc, Dr.P.H.,
Robert N. Anderson, Ph.D.; and Arialdi M. Minio, M.P.H.

that was 2009

Quote:
Prescription Painkiller Overdoses
Quote:
Use and Abuse of Methadone as a Painkiller


Prescription painkiller overdoses* were responsible for more than 15,500 deaths in 2009. While all prescription painkillers have contributed to an increase in overdose deaths over the last decade, methadone has played a central role in the epidemic. More than 30% of prescription painkiller deaths involve methadone, even though only 2% of painkiller prescriptions are for this drug. Six times as many people died of methadone overdoses in 2009 than a decade before.

Methadone has been used safely and effectively to treat drug addiction for decades. It has been prescribed increasingly as a painkiller because it is a generic drug that can provide long-lasting pain relief. But as methadone’s use for pain has increased, so has nonmedical use of the drug and the number of overdoses.

* "Prescription painkiller overdoses" refers to deaths from using harmful amounts of opioid or narcotic pain relievers, including drugs such as Vicodin (hydrocodone), OxyContin (oxycodone), Opana (oxymorphone), and methadone.
published by CDC in july 2012




really? people are not doing too well with pure, predosed drugs as it is.. are you going to blame that on the lack of UNPURE heroin? People can't even be responsible with drugs designed for recovery.

You guys are taking the Mitt Romney stance of making strong arguments based on opinions and no hard facts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Portugal. It would look something like Portugal. but more American
10,637,000 - population of Portugal.

Bullet points on Portugal

- they are not legal. they are decriminalized

- At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy.

- this is exactly what I suggested in my long winded policy post

- Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment

- people found guilty? oh... and again its exactly what I suggested.. except drugs really are not legal in Portugal.

- The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

- again like I suggested .. education and support can create miracles

So the one liner post quoted is inaccurate in saying drugs are legal in portugal...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

regarding 1903-- Harrison Narcotics Tax Act (Ch. 1, 38 Stat. 785) Did not make drugs illegal, it made cocaine and opiates prescription only. Although technically illegal for purposes of distribution and use, the distribution, sale and use of cocaine was still legal for registered companies and individuals.

this law did not take effect until 1914.


- By 1914, the problem had grown to the point where an estimated one U.S. citizen in 400 (0.25%) was addicted to some form of opium.[3] The opium addicts were mostly women who were prescribed and dispensed legal opiates by physicians and pharmacist for ”female problems,” probably mostly pain at menstruation

- Use in opium dens were a problem..

Congress responded by tightening up the Harrison Act-the importation of heroin for any purpose was banned in 1924. After other complementary laws (for ex. implementing the Uniform State Narcotic Act in 1932), and other actions by the government the number of addicts of opium started to decrease fast from 1925 to a level that in 1945 that was about one tenth of the level in 1914

b Stephen R. Kandall, M.D.:Women and Addiction in the United States—1850 to 1920

Basically there was a real issue with addiction at least with opiates.. also heavy revenue that was going un-taxed.

they law was based somewhat on bullshit racist crap, but also genuine Issues... and it did not make drugs illegal in 1903.. that is an untrue statement

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strong arguments based on opinion and assumptions are great when running for president.. for the sake of debate you may want to get your shit straight

You were right about one thing.. opiates were addictive in 1903 and they still are now..frankly I can go back to the point in time that opium was extracted from the poppy and through legit resources make a strong argument as to why opiates and people don't mix. Hell the government loosened restrictions on pain treatment a decade ago and its already a fucking mess. O.J. Simpsons murder trial legal team couldn't make a bullshit case for legalizing them because there is overwhelming evidence going back centuries proving they deserve restrictions. Portugal
is far too small a sample size to make it an example.

The opinion that things would be better with them legal its so full of denial its ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------fun facts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
5.5 million people in the US are currently addicted to opioids.



John Hoffman's words
Quote:
Nevertheless, as is commonly know, the use of opium in China did become a damaging social problem, especially in he nineteenth century. Although edible opium had been used for its medicinal value for years, opium smoking did not appear until around 1500 AD it was introduces by Portuguese traders but did not become fashionable among Chinese natives until the early to mid-eighteenth century. Nonetheless, opium smoking was declared illegal in 1729 (Latimer & Goldberg 1981). However, by this time the opium trading routes had become thoroughly established. Hence, the prohibition had little effect on the opium trade, even though the penalties for violation included flogging and death (Change 1964). Although the Portuguese established many of the trading routes that moved opium into China, the British dominated the market from the latter part of the eighteenth century though the nineteenth century. In the mid-1700s, the British East India Company established a limited monopoly over much of the opium sold to the Chinese (Beeching 1975; Owen 1934). The prohibition of 1729 was reinforced in edicts issued by the emperor of China in 1780 and 1799 (Beeching 1975). However, these failed to stem the flow of opium. Interestingly, there is some evidence indicating that Chinese consumers did not use opium, even in smoking form, as a recreational drug. Rather, it is surmised that opium's primary use was as a medicine. The prohibitive cost of opium made the purchase of substantial quantities of the drug for recreation possible only for the well to do (Latimer & Goldberg 1981). However, other and perhaps more authoritative sources indicated that the recreational use of opium and the carious problems associates with addiction transcended class boundaries (Fay 1975). In any event, this common, yet illegal, medicinal/recreational substance was viewed in the nineteenth century as the primary influence in the downfall of Chinese society. The Chinese ban on opium was similar to the historical ban on any other illicit drug: it failed miserably. Imperial condemnation of opium continued along with the smuggling operations. In the 1830s, the British East India Company found itself in competition with other opium merchants and therefore flooded the market in an attempt to undercut its competition (Beeching 1975). The result was a tidal wave of inexpensive opium. In a severe response the Chinese authorities confiscated all opium on foreign vessels (Fay 1975). British traders sought help from the British cabinet. This help became known as the First Chinese Opium War. In 1840, the British Navy began the war by attacking and routing the weak Chinese forces. The Chinese had virtually no navy and were severely outgunned by the British. Subsequently, the Chinese were forced to pay compensation to the British and open the opium trade. In 1856, another war was fought between the British and the Chinese. Again, on its face, the issue was the opium trade. Moreover, the British forces prevailed and the Chinese were forced to pay reparations and increase the trade in opium once again (Beeching 1975). It is obvious from the historical accounts of opium in China that the Opium Wards were fought not merely to condemn a widespread vice but also because international economic plans of the British empire demanded them. The opium trade was an extremely lucrative enterprise for the British East India Company and thus for Great Britain. British trade interests could not be violated simply because the Chinese government was offended by its citizens' use of opium. From China's perspective, the common argument is that China had large addict population due to the recreational practice of smoking opium. Thus, many of its citizens were enslaved by this pernicious habit and the country was truly suffering. Hence, the prohibition of imported opium was necessary to eliminate opium addiction. However, as indicated above, it is possible that much of the opium use was for medicinal properties. The addict population was in all likelihood, concentrated in the upper class, A large proportion of addicts among this group provoked a greater response from the Chinese government than the concern for opium use by the lower class (Latimer & Goldberg 1981). The outcry from the Chinese government may also have been closely linked to a sense of nationalism. The perception of opium use as a wide-reaching social problem perhaps had a healthrelated basis, but also resulted from a nationalistic fervor that slowly arose in China over the centuries of trade with the western world. The Chinese government came to resent the expectation of the West that it adopt western customs in its international relations. Because opium was on of the primary products brought into China by western traders, it served as a focal point for Chinese rejection of western ways, Chang (1964; 15) described the Opium Wars as a "a clash between two cultures," which could just as easily have involved cotton or molasses. Thus, the condemnation of opium in the nineteenth century China cannot be tied only to concerns for health, but also to concerns for economics and nationalism

Last edited by Basoodler; 21-10-2012 at 18:17.
  #39  
Old 24-10-2012, 06:25
RabbiSmith RabbiSmith is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 04-09-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 10
RabbiSmith is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 28, Level: 1 Points: 28, Level: 1 Points: 28, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Man, Basoodler, you make a strong point against opiates. I agree that in the past, people and opium have not mixed. Truthfully, I have no idea where we are going to go, but I hope we take a direction towards preserving freedom.

I'm a firm advocate for legalizing things for recreational use, simply from the perspective that no one should have control over what goes into someone's own body, and also because I do not believe the pursuit of an altered state of mind is in any way bad. The recreational use of all drugs should only be allowed if it followed the same method as alcohol - you can get shitfaced drunk and utterly destroy your liver every night if you want, as long as you do not drive and endanger others. Thus we arrive at a problem with drug legalization - how do we draw this line between an adult's personal use and harming others?

At one end of the spectrum, we have stoners chilling on their sofas, or trippers frying in their blacklight-lit basements, or even delvers enjoying a nice horrific dose of DPH. In all of these cases, most (reasonable) people would agree that the users are not harming anyone. The other end of the extreme would be driving after a fifth of vodka, or a commercial pilot downing some nyquil before takeoff. These scenarios would obviously be the main target of drug law enforcement, so as to prevent the harm to others.

The line becomes a lot more shady when we consider situations that fall in the middle of these extremes. Many users report going on nature walks while tripping on shrooms. Now, most shroomerites can control themselves, and if they encounter someone while walking, nothing is amiss other than the tripper would not feel as connected to the sober man than he does to mother earth at that moment. But what if the tripper hallucinates that the man is the devil himself, and must be slain (obviously these types of hallucinations are uncommon on shrooms unless we're in the HEROIC category, but work with me)? So should we ban tripping in any way outside of one's home? Where can we draw the line?

Additionally, there arises another problem even if we allow users to do whatever they want in their homes. An argument against the legalization of any addictive substance is that regardless of whether or not someone acquires, say, crack, legally or illegally, and uses it in their home or not, when they are addicted, they're addicted. This could lead to problems down the road such as resorting to stealing to further support their habit, not to mention the loss of productivity an out of control habit could cause.

These two obstacles (preventing harm to other's as a direct result of using a drug, or as an indirect effect of habituation of a drug) are, in my mind, two important barriers to drug legalization. Don't ask me how we can go about passing these barriers, as I have no idea how to do so most effectively. I do think, however, that at a base level, our personal freedom should be the priority. It should come first. Once we agree that we MUST legalize drugs as an extension of our freedoms, we can then move on to the best ways of preventing harm to society. And by legalization and the freedom to choose what enters our bodies, I'm talking about fucking everything, not dependent on a prescription. You know what, fuck the prescriptions. (Opinion here) I do agree that doctors and psychiatrists should be able to recommend what they think would be the best treatment, but it should be a recommendation only. If I can already self-medicate with alcohol, benedryl, or aspirin, why can't I choose to self medicate a perceived lack of motivation with some amph? If the doctor recommends against it, I'll take that into consideration, but at its base it should be my choice.

Now I know all of that previous paragraph can be countered with the good ol' "well people aren't as smart as you Rabbi, they are simple plebs who would easily fall under the sweet sultry path of addiction." And here's where I'm once again stumped. How can we uphold our freedom while also protecting the dumbasses from themselves? "Wait a second!" you might say, "I thought the whole war on drugs business began as a way of protecting the users from themselves, and thus protected society as a whole!". This is where I might protest and say "But I cannot simply say that we should let natural selection take its toll, where the weak who fall victim to addiction and cannot get themselves out perish. That would simply be heartless of me." Nonetheless, one way or another, all drugs will become legalized, and the transition can either be a slow and gradual grinding pain or a quick and brutal flash. If everything is legalized overnight, we would have a period of untold chaos, just like that Weiner dude said in the Penn and Teller episode. But what comes after that? Maybe we would have a society that could *gasp* responsibly use drugs as the tools they are meant to be, whether it be for productivity, recreation, relaxation, etc. And in this period of turmoil I also predict many of our former questions would be answered, as specific situations get examined in court.

Simply put, as others have stated before me, full drug legalization is the only answer. This is based on our freedoms, which I'm pretty sure we are supposed to have (but correct me if I'm wrong and we are all actually just slaves or somethin'). There can be regulation, there can be no regulation, it is no matter, as long as the freedoms remain unhampered, and the whole of society is protected (only after the freedoms are upheld though).

Ok that's my first post on here, figured I'd give my 2 cents.
  #40  
Old 24-10-2012, 14:55
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

I just owe it to all my dead buddies

2 friends dead ages 22, 21 overdose of methadone and benzos
1 committed suicide while in a deep meth psychosis he was 19
3 dead from heroin overdose ages 19, 27, 31
2 more look like zombies because of chronic methamphetamine use and IV opiates

2 in prison.. one was vehicular homicide while under the influence of Oxycontin, The other was popped for the sale of Oxicontin

I have lost only 2 friends to non drug related deaths.. both car accidents hit head on by a drunk driver.

I've myself been an addict (alcohol) and know its a bitch, and should not be discounted so easily.
  #41  
Old 24-10-2012, 15:14
RabbiSmith RabbiSmith is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 04-09-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 10
RabbiSmith is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 28, Level: 1 Points: 28, Level: 1 Points: 28, Level: 1
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Sorry for your loss, man.

That's gonna be the constant check to full legalization - while drugs are not inherently bad, they are dangerous (some of them) and almost everyone at least knows someone who's life has been irreversibly damaged by drugs. So hopefully, we can move towards legalization very slowly, so as to give society time to adjust, or something very extreme will have to happen to either prevent the nasty adjustment period or mitigate it somewhat. I guess we'll wait and see, huh.
  #42  
Old 25-10-2012, 02:01
syzefree333 syzefree333 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 16-10-2012
40 y/o Female from Ireland
Posts: 1
syzefree333 is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 5, Level: 1 Points: 5, Level: 1 Points: 5, Level: 1
Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who View Post
LEGALIZED DRUGS? YA Wanna Hear Plain Talk? Can Ya Take A Dose of Truth?

> Organized Crime & All the Drug Cops, Politicians, Lawyers & Bankers on Their PAY-ROLL will take a $500 Billion Dollar A Year Pay-Cut...
Once Their Hellish Conspiracy to PROFIT from Human Suffering & Misery is SMASHED Once & for All. ( I know, I know... Dream-On )

> They Will Be the Only Losers! Everyone Else on Earth the Winners!

> FREEDOM & BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS Restored! ( my little sister won't have to DIE in PAIN because doctors are afraid to treat her due to the "drug-cops" war on chronic pain patients! )

> Cause, You Tell Me.... Just Who In Hell Gave ANYONE the Right to PLAY GOD & Claim to OWN YOUR BODY & MIND by Deciding What Substance You Can Choose or Choose Not to Consume???

> It's YOUR BODY! IT'S YOUR MIND!!! YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING & NOT A SLAVE to the SYSTEM!!!

> THEY Claim to OWN Your Body When They Say You Can't Smoke This or Consume That!

> THEY Claim to OWN Your Mind When Your Freedom of Religion based on Natural Entheogens is Denied!

> Ya Don't Like it What I'm Saying? Well, Neither Do I - But Someone Needs to Say It!

> Some Silly People Think Legal Dope Will Cause Everyone to Go... WHOOOPEEE & OVERDOSE & DIE!

> Well, What's Happening Now? More People DIE from Bullets fired in the "drug-war" than from "Dope!"

> Some Brainless Jerks Eat-Up the System's Propaganda like a New Pup Eats SH!T off the sidewalk.

> Let's consider Methamphetamine. Now there is a Drug that has been thoroughly Demonized.

> Most people think Meth is just plain bad, but like any other drug, it can be, and is, used without harm by lots of people.

> The US military gives Amphetamine to its pilots to help them stay awake while they are carpet-bombing Third World civilians. But you don't see whoever the current Drug Czar is trumpeting that fact.

> They will always pick out some pathetic junkie who got strung out on meth, and then claim that it is the fault of the drug. And unless we keep meth super-outlawed, your kids are going to wind up like that junkie.

> What Faulty Reasoning! That is like pointing to a Wino lying drunk in the gutter and saying,
Look what an evil substance wine is. We must protect our children from the menace of wine!

> Let's have the death penalty for wine traffickers! If that's what it takes to protect our kids from wine,
then I'm in favor of it.

> Look how stupid that is. I don't think anyone but the most maniacal prohibitionist would actually say that about wine, but the fact is, it's the same for every other drug. Some people can't handle various drugs, but that's no reason to make them generally illegal for everyone. Some people can't drive cars without causing harm, but cars should be generally available. Same with guns, or anything else. General prohibition is stupid, and can only be maintained by increasing stupidity.

> You can only maintain general prohibition by demonizing the prohibited item.

> We are living in a truly Insane Society, and it is a task just to try to keep your head clear.

> You Really Can't Believe Anything THEY SAY.

PEACE!

i do imagine comfortable/clinic type places that addicts can go, for advice and whatever drugs they want to use! say someone is on crack, then they would be prescribed seperately packaged smaller doses, depending on there level of usage, same with heroin...now i still think urine analysys is usefull asthe clinitians can look at particular drug levels and see if they tally with the persons scripts and if not ..then have open and non judgemental communication about this i.e higher dose....Essencially the main reason to legalise drugs is so we as a society can finally look beyond the 'addicts' drug issues, that is definately what created his/her life of crime and finally help them, and if this means giving the addict enough drugs to maintain a successful chance within. society and build confidence instead of cliches 'ciminal', junkie;etc

and im sure if addicts knew that they could have there morning, afternoon,evening doses of heroin and even crack,, i think they will be better able to manage their daily use just knowing at specific points in the day i will top up..instead of running around like a headless chicken all day searching for drugs, the addict can now start to see other aspects of his life that can be achieved...and these clinics should facilitate to work for the whole person..ie training for careers/parenting/family..
i believe a crack habit can be used in a less manic fashion and these clinics would you how
  #43  
Old 25-10-2012, 18:30
scartissue_68 scartissue_68 is offline
Palladium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
64 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 508
scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.scartissue_68 really knows their shit.
Points: 1,395, Level: 5 Points: 1,395, Level: 5 Points: 1,395, Level: 5
Activity: 3.6% Activity: 3.6% Activity: 3.6%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

@ Bassodler.

i admire your tenacity and attention to detail, but you research is lacking...just a bit.

Quote:
Basically there was a real issue with addiction at least with opiates.. also heavy revenue that was going un-taxed.

they law was based somewhat on bullshit racist crap, but also genuine Issues... and it did not make drugs illegal in 1903.. that is an untrue statement
I'm afraid your the one who's wrong, my friend. Here's the attribution that traces drug prohibition in the US back to 1903, not 1914.

Quote:
In 1903, the American Pharmaceutical Association had proposed a model pharmacy bill outlawing sales of cocaine, opiates and chloral hydrate except on prescription, and restricting prescriptions to addicts. Congress followed this suggestion by adopting the APhA pharmacy bill in the District of Columbia in 1906. Fired by Progressive-Era enthusiasm for moral reform, numerous states followed suit. Among the most enthusiastic was California, birthplace of the nation's first anti-drug law, a San Francisco ordinance outlawing opium dens (1875). At the behest of the state board of pharmacy, the California legislature amended the state's poison act in 1907 to prohibit non-medical sales of opium and cocaine. The Board then launched an aggressive campaign, in which it pioneered many of the techniques of modern drug enforcement: hiring undercover agents and informants, entrapping pharmacists into illegal sales, launching sweeps of Chinatown opium dens, seizing contraband in highly publicized raids, pushing legislation to criminalize users and outlaw paraphernalia, and incidentally embroiling itself in corruption and scandal.
The movement for national drug prohibition steamed ahead under Wright's leadership as the State Department pressed for another international conference at the Hague in 1911-2. The U.S. delegation included Wright, Bishop Brent and Henry Finger, who had engineered the California Board of Pharmacy's anti-drug crusade. The Hague Convention, signed Jan. 23, 1912, committed its signatories to restrictions against opium and cocaine. Finger and Wright pressed to have cannabis included as well, but were rebuffed. Congress subsequently went on to pass the Harrison Act, restricting all forms of opium as well as cocaine to prescription use only.
Now, you could argue that a congressional law called the Harrison Act was a more official codification of drug prohibition, but the roots of the War on Drugs trace directly to 1903.

Also, you attempted to divert the lack of systemic dangers of Pure Heroin, compared to currently legal drugs by pointing to overdosing, is a bit spurious. I, however, should have been more specific.

Otherwise your huge treatment, justifying your opinion was impressive and very informative.

However, It did not change the truth that legalizing all drugs is the only way gain control of the price and purity, taxation, eliminating the black market, cutting the prison population by 50%, free our police to restrain actual crime and help change society's attitude about drug addiction.

With all respect. ST-68


  #44  
Old 26-10-2012, 04:34
Doctor Who Doctor Who is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 09-01-2012
Male from United States
Posts: 299
Doctor Who is captain of the psychonauts.Doctor Who is captain of the psychonauts.Doctor Who is captain of the psychonauts.
Points: 482, Level: 3 Points: 482, Level: 3 Points: 482, Level: 3
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

> Actually, the "Racist" Roots of the so-called 'drug-war" can be traced back to 1875 when San Francisco passed the First anti-opium ( smoking ) ordinance & Virginia City, Nevada followed suit in 1876. Nevada prohibited the sale of Opiates for Non-Medical purposes the following year. By 1891 Opium prepared for Smoking, had been outlawed in most of the Western states & territories!

> Few Americans believed Opium a harmful drug, but almost all believed in the "yellow peril" of the China-man who Smoked it! Notice, only Smoking Opium prepared for Non-Medical uses was Outlawed!

> Since it has been over 100 years since the newspapers have printed stories about... "Little White Boys & Girls seduced by a Pipe-full of Opium & condemned to spend their days in the back of laundry rooms where these Tiny Lost Souls would yeild-up their Virgin bodies to their Maniacal yellow captors."
> They Must Have WON the War on Smoking Opium!!!

> And don't Forget the Newspaper Stories about... "White Woman Raped & Ravished by Burly Buck Blackamoors Coked to the Gills on Horse Powders!"
> But I think it's a little early to declare the War on Cocaine Won!!!

the PROPAGANDA may not be as "Racist" now-a-days, as back then, but it's just as effective!

> the Original Drug Act was going to outlaw Caffeine among other many other substances, So just Thank whatever Gods you believe in your not paying the Cartel 10 Bucks or more a cup for your morning Coffee!!!


> Here's an Idea of how "Legal" Drug Use may look...

> Legalized smack & crack are not likely to happen in our lifetimes... So lets look at what MAY be possible sometime this century!

> Lets start simple by legalizing or at least decriminalizing Natural Plants in small amounts for personal use, most people don't fear Plants as much as they do they do the "Hard-Stuff". Many of us Like or even Love our Plants, I Do!

> First Up... is our old friend maryjane, many of our fellow citizens ( smokers or not ) are already on the band wagon & are tired of the 700,000 or however many new arrests every year, which include family members, friends & their kids!!! Many people have tried the "killer weed" & now realize it does not turn a person into a crazed ax murderer ( despite the dis-information published by Harry Anslinger, Hearst & Dr. Murch back in the 1930's).

> the Hemp plant also has an incredible number of other uses besides medical and/or recreational value.
Fiber, Fodder, Fuel ( Faster bio-mass production than almost any other plant ) building material, cloth ( the First Levis were made of hemp which far outlasts cotton! ). Well, too many uses to name, but you get the idea!!!

> Second Up...is our friend the Poppy, Yes we all know the "Hard-Stuff" comes from Poppies, but hey, after all it is a Flower & one many of our Grannies grew. I Remember until a few years ago you could buy all you wanted in craft stores, flower shops or on internet auctions! This one could really cut into the pharmaceutical company's pocket books ( solution to that in part II ), Still most modern people would rather take a pill!

> Third Up... the Coca plant, used by natives in South America forever, makes great tea, chock-full of healthy vitamins & less harmful than coffee ( according to a scientific study done in S.A. ). Not especially addictive in this natural state. This has been sold in the U.S. from time to time as "Inca-Tea" de-cocaized or so said, until some busybody finds it still chock-full of it & the tea gets banned. Since it is Legal in much of South America there is hope the U.S.A. will follow the enlightened policy of our good neighbors in Latin America! ( I can Dream, can't I? )

> Fourth Up... Magic Mushrooms & Peyote, Everyone "knows" that the Injuns have been eating Peyote at the full-moon for thousands of years & it ain't did them any harm, yet. Also... the kind men in Washington have decided to Respect Native Americans Religious Beliefs ( at least for peyote ) an allow them their Right to Freedom of Religion ( after violating all their other "rights" & making war on them in a manner that gave Hitler the idea for his "Final Solution" - 14 million "redskins" dead in the U.S.A. since the "Great White Father" promised them they could keep their lands, forever! ). Hey, Just Remember that in South America & Mexico most of the natives lived thru the Spanish Conquest & even kept much of their land!!!

> OK, that's enough plants for now, so we move on to Part II. Decriminalize the "Legal" Drugs.
Huh? What? Why? Aren't they already "Legal?" Try for a Script of Oxycodone & you tell me!

> As we all know the Medical Profession is under the jack-boot of prohibition in a serious way. How about giving control of medicine back to those who practice it instead of politicians & cops? If doctors were free to prescribe as they see fit ( including narcotics to "treat" addicts ), medical care in the U.S could get back on track! Of Course, People would line-up at doctors offices as if they were giving away free money, if they could get their Drug(s) of choice without all the red-tape non-sense that makes them dread a visit. Getting a script now-a-days is like pulling teeth, with a pair of rusty pliers & no novacaine!

> Some will say... what about abuse? Well, For the First time ever we have computers to track down "doctor hoppers & shoppers", it's now possible to ( or at least attempt to ) limit patients to a reasonable amount of medication thru use of computer records to track doctor visits, scripts etc. the Feds are busting docs, pharmacy's & people big-time this way, any idea how Easy it is to track medical info in the computer age? .

> Who Profits by an increase in drugs sold at legit prices? Almost Everyone, from the individual thru the Doctor, the Pharmacy & the drug makers, the stock-market etc. Who loses? A few Criminals who'll take a big pay-cut or get an honest job, along with the "drug cops" who will be forced to go back to arresting those who do harm the person and property of others ( and will still have those who import "illegal" dope to arrest ) & a few Kill-Joy's who think prohibition is the will of God or something!

> Will some people develop "Problems" from their drug use with a more easy Legal access? A great number of people already have problems & when the threat of jail/job loss etc. becomes a thing of the past, our less fortunate friends can seek any help they need without Fear!

> Ok, moving on to Part III. Legalization should cause our medical re-searchers take a new look at some very useful medications that have been deemed of no medical use by those who have no medical knowledge! Just time for one example. MDMA, Yes, this is unique in it's ability to create feelings of Empathy in people ( could save lots of personal relationships! ) Thousands of Intelligent, caring doctors, psychologists & scientists really believe this! & the DEA's own Judge ruled it should be a CIII "legal" medication. Why then can-not we obtain it legally? Well, a few months later the head of the DEA ( a "cop" ) Decided to overrule their own Judges decision & all the scientific & psychological evidence presented ( hundreds of pages! ). Why? maybe he thought the Human Race did-not need more feelings of Empathy for each-other! His evidence was based on a study done by the army's chemical warfare unit on MDA back in the 1950's ( MDA is a stronger & slightly different drug ). I forget where I came across this, maybe Shulgin?


PEACE!

Last edited by Doctor Who; 27-10-2012 at 01:36. Reason: added ideas for legal drugs
  #45  
Old 27-10-2012, 13:33
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Quote:
Also, you attempted to divert the lack of systemic dangers of Pure Heroin, compared to currently legal drugs by pointing to overdosing, is a bit spurious. I, however, should have been more specific.
In Hoffman's report he says that heroin was thrown under the bus medicinally because it became popular in slums with criminals and addicts. His report was discussing the reasons other than the risks of overdose and addiction.

(I am using a report that was made to pander to your opinions on opiates to refute them! That is how easy this is. Hoffman unlike you guys doesn't ignore the truth)

Heroin just quickly found its home and never left really. BEFORE it was made illegal. So the claim that laws put heroin in this place are refuted.. take it up with Hoffman

Quote:
Although heroin was the most powerful of the opiates, it had been popularized in the early 1900s as a drug of choice among the criminal classes. By World War I, heroin had become a fullblown national problem. Although some argue that the realization of heroin's addictive properties caused physicians to shy away from prescribing it for fear of addicting their patients (Tieman 1981), a growing sense of nationalism may have also triggered a rejection of heroin as a medicine, in as much as it was a German invention (Trebach 1981; King 1972). In any event, the Treasury Department's condemnation of opiates along with medical skepticism over the efficacy of their use influenced a congressional ban on heroin in 1924.
-hoffman


So boo to your claims on heroin.. it made its own bed before it was banned.. Dr.'s refused to fuck with it because it is what it is. ( notice I left In the political argument about the ban.. just to be fair).. we didn't ban Bayer aspirin but we did ban heroin.. hmmm... Hoffman doesn't even go out of his way to refute that it was a problem before it was banned, which he does for opium.


Have you read junkie or other books by beat writers? They were doing the same shit that people do now to get opiates. I have not seen a legitimate argument in this thread to legalize heroin period. In some ways most of the arguments sound like denial and don't address the actual issue with heroin.. those issues surfaced before it was even illegal.


Quote:
However, It did not change the truth that legalizing all drugs is the only way gain control of the price and purity, taxation, eliminating the black market, cutting the prison population by 50%, free our police to restrain actual crime and help change society's attitude about drug addiction.
- the only people who care about prices of illegal narcotics are addicts. The general population just want to keep loved ones safe.

- purity is only a concern of drug users.. and is directly caused somewhat by drug users skimming product to get high. Again not a concern of the general population. If anything the added danger to users only.strengthens to case for prohibition.

- I would like to see prisons empty too.. just to cut our deficit lol

Its not in our cultural fiber to reward bad behavior by making it easier. And public perception on opiate abuse is that its bad behaviour .. even today with the prescription opiate "epidemic" addicts are just making a case for the "bad behavior" label.. and the bad actors are fucking over the people who legitimately need pain medication. And the nature of the medications are making people who were at first taking them legitimately into bad actors..


Opium was frequently prescribed for anything and everything, common cold , cramps, headache, if you were jonsing until 1914 and the Harrison drug ac
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...arrisonact.htm. <-- full text

Last edited by Basoodler; 27-10-2012 at 15:45. Reason: cramps
  #46  
Old 27-10-2012, 19:51
Twizal Twizal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: 13-07-2012
Female from Australia
Posts: 273
Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.Twizal probably knows what they are talking about.
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Quote Basoodler:

- the only people who care about prices of illegal narcotics are addicts. The general population just want to keep loved ones safe.


Making heroin cheaper and offered in a setting whereby clean injecting equipment , medical checks and advice on recovery with options are available, is surely a better way for the general population to keep their loved ones safe? Check out what happens to the loved one atm .....
Wake up in w/d drag self to get dressed and ready to have sex/do a break and enter to steal something to hock or sell on . Meet dealer , be so sick by now can't wait to get home...uses tainted water , old fit ,no where to even wash arm ,and hides in a "grot spot ,"* to inject...that first one gets the person feeling something like human and strong enough to do it all again.
Honestly if it was your loved one which one would you prefer they did?

Quote Basoodler:

- purity is only a concern of drug users.. and is directly caused somewhat by drug users skimming product to get high. Again not a concern of the general population. If anything the added danger to users only.strengthens to case for prohibition.

It isa concern to the general population ,prohibition is what we have now and your loved one can get this crap easily.. Therefore your loved one will be injecting substances that can injure or kill.
How is this better for a loved one?

*Grot spot often a public toilet / other unsavoury place..e.g. Bushes.

Last edited by Twizal; 27-10-2012 at 19:58.
  #47  
Old 27-10-2012, 21:05
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

I meant that is the general opinion.. my opinion is fairly meaningless

Nobody is ever going to accept the fact that their kid or loved over chooses to sit and shoot up dirty drugs in a dirty bathroom stall over spending time with them. They are not going to blame them selves...

Where do you think that blame is going naturally... the drug.

Its incredibly heart wrenching to watch people willingly hurt themselves , waste away and die as you watch..

It is pretty selfish legal or not.. I've made those selfish choices more than I'd like to admit.

Hell, tonight I am taking a 13 year old relative trick or treating because he doesn't want to be around his dad. His dad struggles with a lot of things, but the main one is smack. He is a hell of a nice guy, but he just checks out for long periods of time when he relapses. Its his weekend with his only child and chose to get fucked up instead. I am sure he would have taken the kid trick or treating, but the kid is old enough to tell and called us .

You may ask how that relates to the topic. Well this is a great example if how drugs get a bad reputation.. the kid loves his dad.. he won't accept that his dad is a selfish bastard.. so I guess he and everybody else that this will piss of blames heroin

But me... I blame addiction and the lack of treatment options for him.. he doesn't need clean needles or pure smack..he needs help.

If he had clean needles and pure smack .. and could sit in the lobby and shoot it freely he would still be ducking his kid up and disappointing the people who love him. He would still be addicted and acting selfish.. he just wouldn't have a chance to get arrested.

You guys posting here should know enough to respect addiction.

Last edited by Basoodler; 27-10-2012 at 22:33.
  #48  
Old 30-10-2012, 04:35
kumar420 kumar420 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 02-03-2012
21 y/o Male from Australia
Posts: 529
kumar420 is captain of the psychonauts.kumar420 is captain of the psychonauts.
Points: 400, Level: 3 Points: 400, Level: 3 Points: 400, Level: 3
Activity: 3.4% Activity: 3.4% Activity: 3.4%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
I meant that is the general opinion.. my opinion is fairly meaningless

Nobody is ever going to accept the fact that their kid or loved over chooses to sit and shoot up dirty drugs in a dirty bathroom stall over spending time with them. They are not going to blame them selves...

Where do you think that blame is going naturally... the drug.

Its incredibly heart wrenching to watch people willingly hurt themselves , waste away and die as you watch..

It is pretty selfish legal or not.. I've made those selfish choices more than I'd like to admit.

Hell, tonight I am taking a 13 year old relative trick or treating because he doesn't want to be around his dad. His dad struggles with a lot of things, but the main one is smack. He is a hell of a nice guy, but he just checks out for long periods of time when he relapses. Its his weekend with his only child and chose to get fucked up instead. I am sure he would have taken the kid trick or treating, but the kid is old enough to tell and called us .

You may ask how that relates to the topic. Well this is a great example if how drugs get a bad reputation.. the kid loves his dad.. he won't accept that his dad is a selfish bastard.. so I guess he and everybody else that this will piss of blames heroin

But me... I blame addiction and the lack of treatment options for him.. he doesn't need clean needles or pure smack..he needs help.

If he had clean needles and pure smack .. and could sit in the lobby and shoot it freely he would still be ducking his kid up and disappointing the people who love him. He would still be addicted and acting selfish.. he just wouldn't have a chance to get arrested.

You guys posting here should know enough to respect addiction.
you seem to be taking the view that if drugs are legalised we'll have a whole generation of drop outs and burnouts with no sense of responsibility. which is just not true. granted there will always be a segment of the population that will abuse drugs, break their family's trust and hearts, but its a relatively small number of people compared to the grand total that use drugs.
i get your alcohol example, its legal but people abuse it anyway. but with illicit narcotics, its illegal and people get sucked into an anti-authoritarian mentality as well as by the drugs, and i think this climate of 'criminals should stick together' is part of why drug users tend to fall so much faster into the downward spiral of addiction. not to mention the lack of self-confidence and self worth that comes from the stigma applied to a 'drug addict'
if drugs were legal, and people were properly informed about the risks of each drug (risk of addiction, death, graphic but factual representations of what addicts CAN become) i think the vast majority would stick to avoiding the more mind-altering substances, and those that would use them would be more likely to do so infrequently and as more of a reward, than as a lifestyle of 'get high, get money to get high and screw everything and everyone else'.

obviously with drugs like cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and so on the risk/reward ratio is much higher than it is for drugs like cannabis, psychedelics and so on. but the prevention factor of fear should be enough to keep most people from becoming a regular user, and then an addict.

perhaps a middle ground? a system that can control who can buy how much of a certain substance, and have a cutoff limit after they have purchased a certain amount (as they have in MMJ clinics, e.g. can't buy more than a 1/2 oz at a time or something) and have a database that ensures they don't just go somewhere else and stock up on their drug of choice.

the benefit of legalising certain drugs is there to be seen (certain psychedelics have been shown to be extremely effective in treating debilitating mental and physical illness) and cannabis has a huge number of existing and possible medical uses. its unfortunate that people seem to think all drugs are the same, it prevents us from utilising some very interesting compounds that could do wonders for the medical world. if i had to choose between all drugs being legal and no drugs being legal, as a user i'd legalise all of them. but what we need is a compromise; legalise the less harmful drugs and keep the more addictive and dangerous drugs illegal (but make the sentences lighter for simple possession, but keep the sentences harsh on violent drug related behaviour, robberies and such)

in today's political climate such a compromise is impossible, but hopefully some day people will wake up and smell the coffee.
  #49  
Old 30-10-2012, 13:58
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 2,571
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12 Points: 6,720, Level: 12
Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9% Activity: 22.9%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

I agree with a compromise.

Its not that I think there will be a generation of drop ours. I know only a % of people will become addicts. I just don't like the idea of freely selling drugs that have a high potential of taking over their lives.

For instance heroin found its place in the slums before it was banned. Its just the kind of thing that lends itself to that lifestyle. Potent opiate painkillers are currently becoming a problem while under regulations. They too seem to grab people by the nutsac quickly. If you want them to maintain integrity as a medication they should remain a medication.

Even if all drugs were suddenly made legal.. there would be public outcry for legislation for ones that become a problem. Even responsible people get trapped into painkillers now and end up taking more and more, losing weight, making choices based on getting more instead of what is best.

I just don't see that changing for the better by making them legal.

I could see legalizing recreational substances, or drugs for productivity etc, just not the ones that seem to be a burden because if their addictive nature. We would be using all of the money saved from legalizing on rehabilitation in that case.
  #50  
Old 30-10-2012, 23:16
Mason5 Mason5 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 29-10-2012
24 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 9
Mason5 is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 11, Level: 1 Points: 11, Level: 1 Points: 11, Level: 1
Activity: 1.3% Activity: 1.3% Activity: 1.3%
Re: Question: What would legalized drug use look like?

"Every drug should be legal. It's not a moral issue it's a private property issue. If you own anything in this country it's your own flesh and meat that you drag around everyday, and you should be able to do anything you want to it."-Doug Stanhope

Prohibition of anything gives power, money, regulation, and age requirements to the gangs and cartels. It is very hard for a minor to get alcohol b/c they have to go through a regulated establishment, and it would be the same way with any other drug. This is a better approach than a coke dealer deciding the proper age limit.

A person who is going to do hard drugs are going to do them anyways. The laws doesn't stop that from happening. They only throw minor offenders in maximum security prisons (which is another topic) that the tax payers have to fund.

I believe it all should be legal. Keep alcohol and pot regulated the same way. Age limit 21 and up to the state of when and where to buy it. Harder drugs should be OTC and heavily regulated like allergy medication. You are in a system and the system knows what and how often you purchase and can deny you for any reason. The age limit should be higher than 21. I say at least 25 (and I'm a 22 yr old saying this).

Just regulate drugs and spend more tax dollars on drug education in our school system. And teach the fucking truth. Non of that gateway theory bullshit.

Share this on:

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good information on passing a drug test Superball Drug testing discussion 43 17-06-2014 15:40
USA - The Drug War vs. American Civilization Heretic.Ape. Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics 14 02-05-2014 01:06
USA - Should Pot Be Legal? chillinwill Politics (News) 9 13-09-2012 03:24
USA - Ellis: Social issues key to tea party's future Balzafire Politics (News) 1 05-10-2010 05:06
International - Kyrgyzstan, America and the Global Drug Trade shivakiva2112 Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics 0 04-08-2010 07:30

» New Threads
Going to a 3 day festival, how...
Last post by RealMartinKeller
2 Replies, 62 Views
Please Help Me! How should I taper...
Last post by JonnyBGoode
7 Replies, 331 Views
missed shot, injecting vein right...
Last post by TheBigBadWolf
5 Replies, 74 Views
Cold-Turkeying this shit for good...
Last post by Comeback Kid
7 Replies, 438 Views
I took 1500mg of phenibut-nothing...
Last post by doesit
6 Replies, 105 Views
Phenibut long term experiences ?
Last post by doesit
40 Replies, 2,257 Views
The cycle
Last post by AMhope
1 Replies, 36 Views
Phenibut and/or diphendyramine...
Last post by doesit
1 Replies, 39 Views
New to use of cocaine need advise
Last post by AMhope
19 Replies, 950 Views
think someone put xanax in my beer
Last post by doesit
16 Replies, 339 Views
» New Wiki Articles
GHB
NET

Sitelinks: Information:

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:21.


Copyright: SIN Foundation 2003 - 2014, All rights reserved