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  #1  
Old 28-04-2012, 20:06
S4VV4S S4VV4S is offline
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Any info would be GREATLY useful and appreciated.

First of all,

Hi to you all.
I have been browsing through this forum for a few days and I have found many information useful.

However, I have a few questions I will need personal input for, from you guys.

(quick background)
Been smoking pot for 20 years now and also made use of X, coke and heroine (injected) and opium.
I havent done anything else other than smoke pot for the last 5 years.

Now, a friend of mine has ordered a series of legal highs from a website (not sure if I am allowed to post who) which includes bath salts, incense, kratom and salvia.

SPECIFIC:
Vanilla Sky, LUNAR WAVE 3, OCEAN BURST RED, SEXTACY 3, SPIKE 99 ULTRA BLUE, ATOMIC BOMB 3, ICE BUD SUPER COLD, BLACK MAMBA 1 RESIN, KRATOM EXTRACT X30, SALVIA, SALVIA EXTRACT X10

He has not nor have I tried any of these products before.
I was offered to and I would like to try them with him but before I do I would like to get TRUE facts from people who have or are making use of them.
I have read good reviews and bad.
I have read news reports that people died and that people got psychotic from it and also that it is MORE addictive than its illegal counterpart.
Ofcourse I have also read reviews of people praising them.
And I have to admit that I miss the coke like high but I am a little skeptical about it and wanna get details and info from first hand users.

First question. (This is the most important).
Can you really die, get psychotic or become aggressive and all that I read?

I am pretty much sure that this is a matter of dosage and frequency of use as in the case of their illegal counterparts but I heard some of this stuff are more powerful thus causing more harm.

Second Question.
What is the safest method(s) of usage for first time users regarding all the above mentioned legal highs?

I believe we should:
1) Start at VERY LOW dosages (we have scales with .01 precision).
2) Have a person who did NOT make use with us just in case. (you never know right?)
3) Wait at least 1 hour after trying something to use more should the case be that we got nothing out of the first try.

Anything else I should keep in mind? please add. thank you.

Third Question.
What should we stay away from?
I know we shouldnt be doing anything (duh), but I heard that theres some really dangerous ones out there of which you are better off risking trying to get and use the illegal counterpart than that.
And that includes Vanilla Sky which was in my friends order.


Thats all I have to ask at this point so any information would be very valuable and greatly appreciated and taken into consideration.

Thank you

Post Quality Evaluations:
For the details surrounding your questions.
good first post seeking review of a range of branded products
  #2  
Old 28-04-2012, 20:43
Reason4rhyme Reason4rhyme is offline
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Re: Any info would be GREATLY useful and appreciated.

Hi! And welcome to DF, I'm glad you have found it to be as wonderful of a resource as I have.

You ask quite a range of questions so I will answer them to the best of my ability.

Neither I, nor anybody else for that matter (doctors included) can tell YOU how YOU will react to any drug... ever... period. That being said, there are a number of ways for you to employ harm reduction when faced with a situation such as the one you have described. As you have mentioned a number of "bath salt" type drugs, it may be hard for you to find any info on what they ACTUALLY contain (compound-wise) and for this reason, I personally dont use them. This isn't to say that they are necessarily "unsafe" but really just to point out that there's no way to really tell without just ingesting some. (starting with an "allergy test" meaning MUCH smaller than active dose)

If you have had a bad problem with addiction to downers... good rule of thumb, don't abuse downers. Same goes for stimulants... or really any other class of drugs for that matter. If you personally truly feel in control when using most drugs and look at them as a tool as opposed to a "cure," that is a huge part of not getting psychologically addicted IMO.

To answer you psychosis question... ANY (i mean any) stimulant can cause psychosis. The trick is in how you use them and some (like MDPV) are VERY difficult to use for some people WITHOUT becoming psychotic. That being said using a recreational suggested dose of a stimulant without redosing is not generally likely to trigger a psychosis in most people. If you miss coke, I am just going to assume you weren't the type of coke user to do a fat line, have some sex, and then go to sleep. Most people who end up missing something to the point where it becomes a craving have A LOT of trouble doing something similar without it also becoming a problem.

Physically, everything is unsafe in too high a dose. You're best bet IMHO is to just keep researching each one as much as possible until you either:

a) feel comfortable and safe to try it OR
b) decide against putting it into you're body

KNOW yourself
KNOW your drugs
You should be fine as long as you are careful but honestly... who the hell knows what's in some of those bath salts?

Stay safe and congratulations on not posting something like (i got some white powder.... would it be safe to smoke?) like a lot of new members do. Asking questions in the manner you have here will allow people to continue answering in a helpful way.

-R4R

EDIT: Also avoid mixing any of these drugs together especially when trying them the first time for (hopefully) obvious reasons.

Post Quality Evaluations:
good point on trying one new drug at a time

Last edited by Reason4rhyme; 28-04-2012 at 20:53. Reason: further harm-reduction suggestions and spelling
  #3  
Old 28-04-2012, 20:49
Mindless Mindless is offline
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Re: Any info would be GREATLY useful and appreciated.

That's quite a long list, and nearly all of the items mentioned are brand names. I looked up Vanilla Sky and can't find references to this compound as a recreational drug. I saw lunar wave 3 listed on one site, along with quite a few others with similar inspiring brand names, such as black mamba. However, the contents were not listed, so even if the vendor is genuine who can say what is in them? Some of the goodies I saw seem quite appealing, but I prefer not to take something without full knowledge of what is in it.

If you can, please supply the generic names of these products, or a list of their ingredients. Some vendors seem to be more reliable than others, but even where contents are listed the actual ingredients can vary greatly. There is also the possibility of counterfeit goods. We can discuss the effects and safety record of specific substances, but it can be harder to be accurate about brand names. You can also try UTFSE, entering the generic or brand names. Here's a thread I found on Black Mamba, which expresses some safety concerns.

As for the X extracts of kratom and salvia, the X or amount of raw product used in production does not imply improved quality. X 30 does not equal 30 times stronger. The raw material itself needs to be of a high standard, and poor production techniques can impair quality. It is often best to find a good ethnobotanical supplier and just use the original material, e.g. use good kratom leaf rather than X extracts.

In answer to your questions:

Can you really die, get psychotic or become aggressive and all that I read?
That would depend on a number of factors including what drugs were used, your own metabolism, state of health, other medication, etcetera. It's not possible to give a comprehensive answer, but some legal highs do seem to have risks attached to their use, which is the case with most if not all drugs.

What is the safest method(s) of usage for first time users regarding all the above mentioned legal highs?
I'd go along with your points on starting low, using suitably accurate scales, having a trip sitter, and leaving gaps between doses. Some drugs may require longer than one hour to reach peak effects. I agree with Reason4rhyme that for first time use it is safer to avoid drug combinations.

What should we stay away from? All drugs have risks. When it comes to those I have experience with, I would not take any type of illicit stimulant, or any currently legal RC (Research Chemical) versions. I have tried a few different naphthoylindoles like JWH-018 and AM-2201, but generally steer clear of these as they lack subtlety and I'm concerned about reports of dependency and withdrawal.

Last edited by Mindless; 28-04-2012 at 21:08. Reason: punctuation
  #4  
Old 29-04-2012, 12:57
S4VV4S S4VV4S is offline
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Re: Any info would be GREATLY useful and appreciated.

Hi again fellas,

And thank you for your valuable input.

Reason4rhyme:
I shall add the no drug combinations to my list of safe first time try
Though I have though that IF required to calm down (should the bath salts give me a lot of tension) to make a joint from the incense.

Can I just smoke a joint of pot instead or is that a no no aswell (again should the case be that I need to calm down)?

Also, to confirm part of your assumption: No I wasnt the average user and I didnt snort it, I used to inject it (with a syringe) both coke and heroine (not together at the same shot). However I cant actually say I am craving it. I miss it yeah (I mean who has tried doing coke and didnt like the feeling they got?).
That being said, I should also say that I have gotten on and off both coke and heorine for a few times so I know what to expect from them. I dont know what to expect from bath salts. So you can understand my worries.
Oh and also, should I decide to take any of the mentioned legal highs I WILL NOT, be using the same method of use. Snort, smoke and thats it.


Also Mindless:
You mentioned JWH-018 and AM-2201. I have to admit that those names mean absolutely nothing to me.
How can I know if something we have ordered contains any (or even both) of those substances?


Also from what I gather from both of you (I could be wrong), you are not regular users of these products.
I would also love to have input from users that make regular use of these products and ofcourse their experiences both good and bad.

Thanks again for all your information
  #5  
Old 01-05-2012, 10:05
Reason4rhyme Reason4rhyme is offline
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Re: Any info would be GREATLY useful and appreciated.

A joint of pot would absolutely be a good idea. A joint of incense on the other hand... not so much. The high feels the same but do NOT mistake the two. Cannabis induces a certain level of cannabinoid receptor agonism.... so does incense, the difference is the cannabidol (CBD) in cannabis. It has natural antipsychotic effects to calm you the fuck down... How many emergency room visits have we heard about where people are freaking the fuck out on incense? Compare this with how many times this happens with weed.

edit: I realized this may have come across as confusing without explaining the part of the whole agonism thing briefly... Cannabis with JUST Delta-9-THC and no CBD would probably be almost as bad psychologically as incense... its the way the cannabinoids in marijuana interact that make it particularly good medicine. Also I have used these products... which is the PRECISE reason I am not a regular user of similar produx.

Overstimulated+cannabinoid-antipsychotic effects=Psychosis

Weed is handy for just about anything IMO.

Have fun and stay safe.

-R4R

Last edited by Reason4rhyme; 01-05-2012 at 10:15.
  #6  
Old 01-05-2012, 10:48
S4VV4S S4VV4S is offline
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Re: Any info would be GREATLY useful and appreciated.

Ok,

Thanks R4R.
That information has proved VERY useful regarding safer use.

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