Drugs-Forum  
Home Wiki Studies Forum Groups Blog Video Images News
Go Back   Drugs Forum > DRUG-FORUMS > GHB
Mark Forums Read
Register Tags

Notices

GHB GHB, GBL and related psychoactive substances

 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-04-2012, 14:09
Synesthesiac Synesthesiac is offline
Palladium Member
 
Join Date: 18-09-2008
Male from United Kingdom
Posts: 1,604
Blog Entries: 17
Synesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline Medline
Points: 5,792, Level: 11 Points: 5,792, Level: 11 Points: 5,792, Level: 11
Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6%
Phenibut temporarily relieves GBL/GHB hangover

Those people that have used GHB/GBL recreationally will know that when you get past 3 doses in a day (> ~8ml of GBL or > ~10g of GHB) you will start to get the GHB equivalent of a hangover within three hours of dosing. The feeling is very different than a hangover, its a stimulating edgy feeling that if bad will lead to anxiety and panic attack type symptoms.

Now I used to think (like many other people) this was due to a "dopamine rebound" effect, but this thread by forum user malsat seems to show its in fact a combination of upregulated glutamate receptors causing excitotoxicity (plus in very high doses apoptosis), and down-regulated GABA-B. The former seems to be treatable with phenibut and the latter with benzodiazepines.

Now I have got some GBL here at the moment, and having had a couple of days where I've ended up re-dosing throughout the majority of the day (about 12-15ml in total) I ended up a bit of an anxious mess when it wore off.

Today however I was bracing for a similar effect having dosed throughout the day the night before. Then I remember I had some phenibut, so I took 500mg at the same time as my last dose, then another 500mg when I woke up three hours later. I have to say it worked amazingly, I have got literally no GHB hangover at all! Which has made me wonder how long this can be kept up for, and what the possible health implications of dosing with GHB in the day and using a small dose of phenibut, to block the calcium channels and reduce the glutamate production that gives you that horrible edgy feeling. If anyone has used phenibut on a regular basis like this your experience with it would be great.

Also I noticed that if the above theory is the correct one for explaining the anxiety effect after GHB abuse then pregabalin and gabapentin should also work just as well as phenibut. This would be handy for me as I have a limitless supply of pregabalin. Does anyone have experience in using either of these in place of phenibut ?

EDIT: I should add this before people think this is some sort of miracle cure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synesthesiac View Post
Phenibut withdrawals sound very similar to GBL withdrawals, I'm quite sure that phenibut just delays / masks the side effects very briefly rather than curing them outright. "Hair of the dog" type effect, keep drinking to cure hangover, but in this case you just delay it with another substance. Only use it very occasionally else I can imagine ending up in a right pickle with these two.

Last edited by Synesthesiac; 30-04-2012 at 21:13.
  #2  
Old 09-04-2012, 17:06
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Tuvalu
Posts: 2,378
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11
Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Phenibut is my new favorite substabance lol.

I've wondered if it could help someone who has been a long term benzo user due to the Dr prescribing them not abuse. My mother has been taking tranxene for maybe 20 years and she often complains that it no longer helps her with anxiety, but the withdrawals are too much.

I just wonder if it could help reduce withdrawal symptoms during taper?

I also find it just as effective with fewer side effects as some benzos that are prescribed.

Let me know hoe this research turns out! I know gbl isn't the same as a xanax, but if it helps with gbl I see no reason why it wouldn't help with alcohol or other gaba substances. Gaba a or b
  #3  
Old 09-04-2012, 18:46
Synesthesiac Synesthesiac is offline
Palladium Member
 
Join Date: 18-09-2008
Male from United Kingdom
Posts: 1,604
Blog Entries: 17
Synesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline Medline
Points: 5,792, Level: 11 Points: 5,792, Level: 11 Points: 5,792, Level: 11
Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Its probably noteworthy to add that phenibut withdrawals apparently make benzo and GBL withdrawals look like a walk in the park. I'd not even want to contemplate that thought. The bottle I have of phenibut states that the maximum daily dose is 2000mg, and that you can not use for more than five days without a two day break.

So not something you can get away with using daily for very long.
  #4  
Old 09-04-2012, 19:16
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Tuvalu
Posts: 2,378
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11
Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Is it possible for them to be worse than benzos. Ugh I've been dosing maybe 2grams a day in 2 doses. It really keeps you feeling balanced throughout the day. I only it 3 days on 4 days off.

Oh well it seems like it could help a lot of people as an antiaxiety med prenatal mood lifter. Oh well.
  #5  
Old 09-04-2012, 19:37
Synesthesiac Synesthesiac is offline
Palladium Member
 
Join Date: 18-09-2008
Male from United Kingdom
Posts: 1,604
Blog Entries: 17
Synesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline Medline
Points: 5,792, Level: 11 Points: 5,792, Level: 11 Points: 5,792, Level: 11
Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Well thats what I heard from a person who was addicted to 24/7 dosing of GBL and needed so much phenibut to function when he stopped using he overdosed on it and had to go to hospital. He was using GBL daily for months on end. I will ask him for details about this, there is a chance that the doctors responsible for him just said that to stop him abusing it more.

He said he tried everything for his withdrawals, he dosed himself up to his eyeballs on benzos but they did not stop the excitation effect and never worked in the end. The only thing that worked is the phenibut.

On another note, Baclofen would be another gaba analogue that might be just as useful, it shares most of the properties of other gaba analogues. I've request some documents to be uploaded to the file archive, when I can read them I will know how helpful it is.

Last edited by Synesthesiac; 09-04-2012 at 19:46.
  #6  
Old 09-04-2012, 20:05
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Tuvalu
Posts: 2,378
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11
Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Let me know how that one goes.

do you think some people have some sort of a predisposed gaba issue from birth? It seems like my grandfather passed on a chemical imbalance that was best medicated with benzos or alcohol. There are 8 brothers and sisters a couple abuse alcohol and the rest.are prescribed a benzo. I would be a generation down the latter and have had my drinking problem. And when sober felt like something was missing. I never wanted to go the prescribed benzo route because of how they have effected loved ones over long periods of time.

Phenibut seems to fill that void and allows me to remain sober.

I have gbl around but have never taken that first step to try it. That and benzo pills make me uncomfortable because I know I will get hooked.
  #7  
Old 12-04-2012, 15:05
garret99 garret99 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 20-06-2011
Male from Poland
Posts: 7
garret99 should review received reputation comments.
Points: 7, Level: 1 Points: 7, Level: 1 Points: 7, Level: 1
Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synesthesiac View Post
Also I noticed that if the above theory is the correct one for explaining the anxiety effect after GHB abuse then pregabalin and gabapentin should also work just as well as phenibut. This would be handy for me as I have a limitless supply of pregabalin. Does anyone have experience in using either of these in place of phenibut ?
I have experience with both – phenibut and pregabalin. They both work great in stopping withdrawal symptoms, however there are also downsides. Tolerance builds up extremely quickly if you take it day by day. You have to do at least 2-3 days break to prevent it. Phenibut can easily get you physically addicted if you take it every day for more than few days. Believe me – you don’t want to be physically addicted to phenibut. The best way is to use them when quitting GHB/GBL addiction. But even then take one dose(1,5g phenibut, 150mg prebabalin will be enough for someone without tolerance) before sleep after last dose of GBL/GHB – this will let you sleep for 8 hours without any problems. Next day you should wake up without any w/d symptoms, however those symptoms can manifest later during the day (however not as strong as if just quit cold turkey). If they do take one last dose of phenibut/pregabalin (70-90% of the previous ‘sleepping’ dose – no more). You will feel that the second dose is considerably weaker, but now it’s not about putting you to sleep, but just taking as much as needed to relieve w/d symptoms. In the evening you should still feel the dose. To help you fall asleep use something like diphenhydramine/herbal sedatives/st. johns wort/few beers. Don’t take another dose of pregabalin/phenibut. When you wake up next day the worst part will be over and you will feel ok.
  #8  
Old 12-04-2012, 16:12
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Tuvalu
Posts: 2,378
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11
Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

I keep hearing how horrible Phenibut addiction is and can't for the life of me how it could be so horrible. It's fairly cheap, accessible and doesn't mess with you too much..
  #9  
Old 12-04-2012, 19:24
garret99 garret99 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 20-06-2011
Male from Poland
Posts: 7
garret99 should review received reputation comments.
Points: 7, Level: 1 Points: 7, Level: 1 Points: 7, Level: 1
Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
I keep hearing how horrible Phenibut addiction is and can't for the life of me how it could be so horrible.
The same way as gbl can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoodler View Post
It's fairly cheap, accessible and doesn't mess with you too much..
GBL is also cheap and accessible and doesn't mess with you too much... but only if you use it in moderation.
  #10  
Old 12-04-2012, 19:37
RaoulDuke32 RaoulDuke32 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 03-07-2010
26 y/o Male from United States
Posts: 500
RaoulDuke32 is captain of the psychonauts.RaoulDuke32 is captain of the psychonauts.RaoulDuke32 is captain of the psychonauts.
Points: 275, Level: 2 Points: 275, Level: 2 Points: 275, Level: 2
Activity: 0.5% Activity: 0.5% Activity: 0.5%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Synesthesiac says his friend took enogh to land himself in the hospital - its all about context. I doubt if regular use of phenibut compares with the w/ds to regular us of alprazolam or other benzos.

It is acting on GABA - b rather than GABA - a, which could offer much different w/ds and addiction. Perhaps in very high doses a GABA b agonist can produce its own miseries, like GHB does in high doses.
  #11  
Old 12-04-2012, 20:07
garret99 garret99 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: 20-06-2011
Male from Poland
Posts: 7
garret99 should review received reputation comments.
Points: 7, Level: 1 Points: 7, Level: 1 Points: 7, Level: 1
Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1% Activity: 0.1%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Ghb and phenibut are GABA-B agonists. GHB w/d are hell, maybe even worse than benzodiazepine w/d.
  #12  
Old 12-04-2012, 22:23
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Tuvalu
Posts: 2,378
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11
Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Does phenibut bind well enough to be as bad as ghb? It seems so mild as an intoxicant. Its effects vs bad effects are rediculasly slanted to the positive side

I've been through both alcohol and benzo withdrawal in the past. I am just trying to weigh out the negatives. I am not finding good documentation on phenibut either way even though its commonly used in Russia.

Last edited by Basoodler; 12-04-2012 at 23:08.
  #13  
Old 27-04-2012, 11:18
xiaobendan xiaobendan is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 15-01-2011
31 y/o Male from Ireland
Posts: 426
xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.
Points: 166, Level: 2 Points: 166, Level: 2 Points: 166, Level: 2
Activity: 2.3% Activity: 2.3% Activity: 2.3%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Phenibut is fine if used in a smart way.

Afoaf suffered bad withdrawals last year from using it nearly everyday for a months.

This year he got some an only dose twice a week, while then washing out for 5days. No withdrawals symptoms even after using it up to 10grams for three days.

He now only uses it at the 4-6gram level. It's wonderful with stimulants, you never have to suffer a come down.

Phenibut withdrawals are awful though, so never use it daily.!

Once bitten twice shy
  #14  
Old 27-04-2012, 16:25
Basoodler Basoodler is offline
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 13-10-2011
Male from Tuvalu
Posts: 2,378
Basoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumBasoodler is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11 Points: 6,071, Level: 11
Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4% Activity: 19.4%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

what were the symptoms of said withdrawal?
  #15  
Old 29-04-2012, 03:27
xiaobendan xiaobendan is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 15-01-2011
31 y/o Male from Ireland
Posts: 426
xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.xiaobendan probably knows what they are talking about.
Points: 166, Level: 2 Points: 166, Level: 2 Points: 166, Level: 2
Activity: 2.3% Activity: 2.3% Activity: 2.3%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Well, ones face feels like a mask, the skin looks and feels terrible. The front of the brain has a strange throbing decompression feeling.

Afoaf couldn't sleep, as said before there was a strong pressure in the frontal lobe of his brain. It reminded him of bad eye strain but more of an alien sensation. His nerves were extra sensitive, he could feel the insides of his teeth fillings. His tolerance for dirt, heat and general disgust dropped (he was living in a hot developing country).

His skin began to crawl just dealing with day to day discomfort(goosebumps all the time). His ears rang and sleep was impossible. As the days went bye he became more irritable, anxious and depressed. It felt like it was never going to stop. He kept washing his face because he thought it was dirty(reminded him of his acne days as a teen). He did this until his skin dried out and began to crack, then 3am on the 5th day of withdrawals a mosquito bit his dry t-zone he nearly cracked up. The itchyness under the skin was very uncomfortable to say the least.

It was like having to re-enter your body again, getting used to being a fleshy creature. That's the nearest way to describe it. After 7/8 days(thank god) he was back and flushed all he had left.

Actually, the last couple of days he used Kava to help him sleep becasue melatonin was doing nothing. The Kava took the edge. If he got himself in a bad phenibut situation again he would use kava at an earlier stage. He has heard that both phenibut and kava work on similar parts of the gaba receptor.



Post Quality Evaluations:
Nice report of phenibut WD
  #16  
Old 29-04-2012, 04:14
Synesthesiac Synesthesiac is offline
Palladium Member
 
Join Date: 18-09-2008
Male from United Kingdom
Posts: 1,604
Blog Entries: 17
Synesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline MedlineSynesthesiac must mainline Medline
Points: 5,792, Level: 11 Points: 5,792, Level: 11 Points: 5,792, Level: 11
Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6% Activity: 0.6%
Re: Phenibut totally cures GBL / GHB hangover, glutamate excitotoxicity "rebound" eff

Phenibut withdrawals sound very similar to GBL withdrawals, I'm quite sure that phenibut just delays / masks the side effects very briefly rather than curing them outright. "Hair of the dog" type effect, keep drinking to cure hangover. Only use it very occasionally else I can imagine ending up in a right pickle with these two.

Share this on:

Thread Tools


» New Threads
Good, intelligent, kind chemistry?
Last post by Diverboone
4 Replies, 240 Views
Are there any other mothers out...
Last post by Trying Again
6 Replies, 553 Views
Question about Hydromorphone.
Last post by Yung jizzle
12 Replies, 2,677 Views
Opiate and benzos withdrawal...
Last post by Dawn Godess
22 Replies, 1,163 Views
Why are opiates doing this to me...
Last post by Yung jizzle
11 Replies, 658 Views
Purifying Dexamphetamine Pills...
Last post by ReaperCOBHC
4 Replies, 11,144 Views
Problems Snorting Hydromorph Contin
Last post by Yung jizzle
2 Replies, 322 Views
I smoke because I'm bored
Last post by enhu
2 Replies, 122 Views
Concerned for friend's children...
Last post by Diverboone
4 Replies, 114 Views
Come on guys answer my opana...
Last post by Yung jizzle
0 Replies, 15 Views
» New Wiki Articles

Sitelinks: Information:

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:58.


Copyright: SIN Foundation 2003 - 2014, All rights reserved
"Wiki" powered by VaultWiki v3.0.20 PL 1.