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  #26  
Old 07-04-2012, 04:54
SpatialReason SpatialReason is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipmunk View Post
Ok he just got all his stuff to my place. He wants the weekend to do what he wants and then he is going Monday to see a professional. I told him that once he really does this there is no going back. I think he's stressing about it but he definitely want to get clean. He hasn't used today but I know he has some. Also we were talking.about when he gets clean and he asked if he could still smoke weed. I didn't know what to say being prone to smoke myself. But I'm scared of once he gets cleans if he smokes weed hell want more hardcore stuff. Haha I love to cook he's had my cooling I make food for him when he goes to work a lot. I haven't seen him this sober in a long time. I don't want to get my hopes up but its hard not to.
If you guys have to, taper with weed and maybe kratom. Many ex-heroin users use that to get off without methadone it seems, and some have reported great success with a kratom tapering system.

The weed can stay until he is clean from heroin. One at a time. Heroin is the serious problem. All the weed is going to do is allow him more short term memory, better moods, and a much more balanced mind if he gets clean off of that. Yet that is weighing an elephant and a puppy in terms of "issues they cause." So really, in the right and perfect world, he needs to go clean off everything and never touch heroin again. Weed could be something you guys indulge in much like the average working human being might have a beer or two. If that is your "beer at night," then so be it.

All we care about is seeing him get his brain back in order. Let him smoke but monitor how much he does smoke and just remind him that his brain chemistry will only repair itself with sobriety and only sobriety. If he wants to feel his old self at its best and happiest, this is the only way. It will be possible. I have seen someone come from a massive benzo binge/addiction that lasted for three years come back to himself finally (and a MUCH better person... I wish I could even make it clear how much change I have seen!) and he took over a YEAR to see that normalcy come back.

He has a long road, but if he does it, life will be far less stressful because he doesn't have to dance the "drug mambo" in getting his next fix, getting the money for his next fix, and keeping enough money to keep a place so he can do his stuff...

Remind him about that. Remind him how much easier life is sober. Addictions take a lot of fuckin' energy and work... they aren't worth it. o.o

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  #27  
Old 07-04-2012, 13:34
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

I have one of those "friends" too that will not realize how much I bloody love her, but yeah, there are women out there who can inspire a guy to want to change for her, but the one i'm talking about has me inspired to want to change myself for me. I wish you two much luck, and if ya ever need to chat, pm me
  #28  
Old 07-04-2012, 22:23
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatialReason View Post
If you guys have to, taper with weed and maybe kratom. Many ex-heroin users use that to get off without methadone it seems, and some have reported great success with a kratom tapering system.

The weed can stay until he is clean from heroin. One at a time. Heroin is the serious problem. All the weed is going to do is allow him more short term memory, better moods, and a much more balanced mind if he gets clean off of that. Yet that is weighing an elephant and a puppy in terms of "issues they cause." So really, in the right and perfect world, he needs to go clean off everything and never touch heroin again. Weed could be something you guys indulge in much like the average working human being might have a beer or two. If that is your "beer at night," then so be it.

All we care about is seeing him get his brain back in order. Let him smoke but monitor how much he does smoke and just remind him that his brain chemistry will only repair itself with sobriety and only sobriety. If he wants to feel his old self at its best and happiest, this is the only way. It will be possible. I have seen someone come from a massive benzo binge/addiction that lasted for three years come back to himself finally (and a MUCH better person... I wish I could even make it clear how much change I have seen!) and he took over a YEAR to see that normalcy come back.

He has a long road, but if he does it, life will be far less stressful because he doesn't have to dance the "drug mambo" in getting his next fix, getting the money for his next fix, and keeping enough money to keep a place so he can do his stuff...

Remind him about that. Remind him how much easier life is sober. Addictions take a lot of fuckin' energy and work... they aren't worth it. o.o
Ok he gave himself till Monday then we are going to a professional he wants to trytapering with weed. Because he thinks it'll help him relax. He has also talked to his fighting coach and he is getting back in the gym as soon as possible to start working out. He took a week of off work so he doesn't ha e to go in all in a funk. Will that be enough time? He is scared of getting sick but he is very motivated to get clean. All of his suppliers know not to contact him after this weekend. He is having a hard time with this because a couple of them are his bestfriends. But he knows if he hangs out with them he will want to use. Os there anything I can say to make him feel better about this. He knows he is not allowed to bring drugs into my home and he can only smoke weed if he is with me. He wants to start going to see a psychiatrist as well to see if they can help him manage his stress.

Chipmunk added 6 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightsmith View Post
I have one of those "friends" too that will not realize how much I bloody love her, but yeah, there are women out there who can inspire a guy to want to change for her, but the one i'm talking about has me inspired to want to change myself for me. I wish you two much luck, and if ya ever need to chat, pm me
I don't want him to change for me per se. I want him to realize that everything he already has will still be there when he is clean. If that makes sense. I love him and if it works out between us that'd be amazing. But if not and the only reason he changed was for me I would be scared he would go back to doing all this again. And thank you. I might have to take you up in that.

Chipmunk added 40 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

If anyone is interested in getting updates from how this are going in a few weeks feel free to pm me. My friend is doing ok so far he still wants to go through with it. I just hope he doesn't get cold feet.

Last edited by Chipmunk; 07-04-2012 at 22:23. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #29  
Old 07-04-2012, 23:14
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

We all need a pillar of strength to lean on from time to time, maybe some advice from a female might help me lift my game plan for my friend she likes to pretend she's tough, I once told her she has that much front, I have trouble finding where her rear starts and ends.
  #30  
Old 07-04-2012, 23:20
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

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Originally Posted by knightsmith View Post
We all need a pillar of strength to lean on from time to time, maybe some advice from a female might help me lift my game plan for my friend she likes to pretend she's tough, I once told her she has that much front, I have trouble finding where her rear starts and ends.
I know all about trying to be tough. But in the end it only hinders anything your trying to work through. Everyone needs help. If you try to deny that than your mistaken. Talking through a weakness shows more strength than putting of a front and hiding behind pretenses.
  #31  
Old 07-04-2012, 23:59
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Yeah, I actually think i;m getting through to her, I just have to give her time, and if she reaches out, i'm there, once she figures that out, she can then allow herself to depend on me, she's used to looking out for everyone else, and all I can do to stop myself from jumping up and down telling her that I want to look after her, is the fact that I gotta have my macho manly attitude :P
  #32  
Old 08-04-2012, 00:05
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

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Originally Posted by knightsmith View Post
Yeah, I actually think i;m getting through to her, I just have to give her time, and if she reaches out, i'm there, once she figures that out, she can then allow herself to depend on me, she's used to looking out for everyone else, and all I can do to stop myself from jumping up and down telling her that I want to look after her, is the fact that I gotta have my macho manly attitude :P
My friend is the same way. But when we talked about it I told him that he doesn't have to be the person to suffer alone. Thar no matter what happened I would be there for him to lean on. A lot of what was holding him back is the fear of scaring me away when he is at his worst but I told him I'd rather be there for him in his time of need than watch him suffer from the sidelines. My friend has a lot of pride. I read in a book that "pride is not easy to swallow and it taste like shit when it goes down" but this is more than pride. This is a matter of if I am going to see him sick or if I would be at his funeral. He finally understood that I was there as long as he wanted me to be.
  #33  
Old 08-04-2012, 00:14
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Loyalty is a rare commodity in this world, and I hold it to high value, too msny times in my life i've given the title "friend" to people who never knew the meaning of the term, but I can see you're one of the decent people so yeah i'll deffo ask for advice from ya if thats ok shes one of those infectious happy people, that only has to ingest an E number to be hyperactive, I asked her today if anyone had ever told her shes nuts, and she said yes but not in a good way, I just couldn't help but chuckle with her, I wouldn't trade that side of her in a second for a million.
  #34  
Old 08-04-2012, 00:28
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

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Originally Posted by knightsmith View Post
Loyalty is a rare commodity in this world, and I hold it to high value, too msny times in my life i've given the title "friend" to people who never knew the meaning of the term, but I can see you're one of the decent people so yeah i'll deffo ask for advice from ya if thats ok shes one of those infectious happy people, that only has to ingest an E number to be hyperactive, I asked her today if anyone had ever told her shes nuts, and she said yes but not in a good way, I just couldn't help but chuckle with her, I wouldn't trade that side of her in a second for a million.
Loyalty and honesty are a persons two most important traits in my eyes. And I deffinately don't mind if you ask for advice. I have a freidn like that she is very bubbly and energetic all the time. Except behind closed doors she shows the pain she really has to deal with. If you would like too go ahead and pm me
  #35  
Old 08-04-2012, 00:40
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

pm'd

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  #36  
Old 08-04-2012, 02:15
SpatialReason SpatialReason is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

I am truly going to be glad, Chipmunk, if this guy and you clean up, hook up, and live a happy life. It is all I can do for now as lonely as I am. At least you can make others happy. I am glad I got the ball rolling on this.
  #37  
Old 08-04-2012, 08:15
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Quick question. I know that spatialreason said that H addicts get sick not violent I am just curious if there is a chance that my friend will get violent being a fighter and such.
  #38  
Old 08-04-2012, 16:29
SpatialReason SpatialReason is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipmunk View Post
Quick question. I know that spatialreason said that H addicts get sick not violent I am just curious if there is a chance that my friend will get violent being a fighter and such.
That all depends on the person. If he loves you, he should not hit you. He may just get angry and rude for a while. He doesn't sound like a full blown junkie, so I think his actions are probably within his own control.
  #39  
Old 08-04-2012, 17:02
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Ok thank you. He is getting very anxious.
  #40  
Old 08-04-2012, 19:10
ratgirldjh ratgirldjh is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

if your friend can get some kratom it would really help right now. kratom is much easier to taper off from than H and can ease his w/d a lot. i would consider this as a resort if he can't take the w/ds - kratom would be better than his going back to H.

my rattie girl has used kratom recently to stop w/d after using H for quite a while daily.

however one good thing: H w/d only lasts a few days! the worst of it is (for my rattie girl) the 2nd and 3rd day and once he is beyond the 3rd day he should feel better every day!

EXERCISE helps a lot! my rattie girl was once coming off methadone and found that if she ran as fast as possible down the street - hard as it was - she would feel almost normal when she would finish! so she ran up and down the street several times a day when she would feel bad w/d and it helped and each time it seemed the w/d came back less!

H w/d is much shorter than methadone so remind him if he just gets through 3 days he will start to feel better daily. also have him take a good vitamin supplement and epsom salt baths help a lot too.

some people say drinking tonic water really helps my rattie girl has never tried it. of and of course immodium. that definitely will help.
  #41  
Old 09-04-2012, 05:13
SpatialReason SpatialReason is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

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Originally Posted by Chipmunk View Post
Ok thank you. He is getting very anxious.
If you can't get Kratom from a shop to help taper his needs and wants down to null, then you probably need to be there and comfort him. As twisted and funny as this is going to sound, you might also prescribe a healthy dose of dopamine release for him. By that, I mean you might have to assist in giving him other earthly pleasure that will distract him from chemical withdrawals. *cough cough cough* You might have to hump him some to get his mind off of the fix. I am sure this is happening already between you two given the closed-quarters situation, but there is a level to which a guy won't argue with that. Just make the agreement that "you will cut him off" if he goes out and gets a fix. It'll give him something to look forward to.

Seriously, each time you can tell his mind is on heroin, you might have to try and work towards getting him happy to think about other earthly desires.

Apparently you two love each other enough to make this whole getting clean thing happen. If you can make his brain chemicals do the same thing as the fix does, you'd be helping him. Sex can accomplish some of it. :P

This is constructive advice I think. I don't think either of you will be throwing a fit over this recommendation.

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continued support throughout the thread, many good ideas
simply great idea to get the Juices a-flowing again. Constructive advice
  #42  
Old 09-04-2012, 08:04
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatialReason View Post
If you can't get Kratom from a shop to help taper his needs and wants down to null, then you probably need to be there and comfort him. As twisted and funny as this is going to sound, you might also prescribe a healthy dose of dopamine release for him. By that, I mean you might have to assist in giving him other earthly pleasure that will distract him from chemical withdrawals. *cough cough cough* You might have to hump him some to get his mind off of the fix. I am sure this is happening already between you two given the closed-quarters situation, but there is a level to which a guy won't argue with that. Just make the agreement that "you will cut him off" if he goes out and gets a fix. It'll give him something to look forward to.

Seriously, each time you can tell his mind is on heroin, you might have to try and work towards getting him happy to think about other earthly desires.

Apparently you two love each other enough to make this whole getting clean thing happen. If you can make his brain chemicals do the same thing as the fix does, you'd be helping him. Sex can accomplish some of it. :P

This is constructive advice I think. I don't think either of you will be throwing a fit over this recommendation.
He likes that idea lol tomorrow's the day!

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  #43  
Old 09-04-2012, 10:30
FluffyPinkElephant FluffyPinkElephant is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

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Originally Posted by Chipmunk View Post
He wants to get clean asap so he can start fighting again. I just don't know what type of medical professional to take him to. He is going to stay with me through everything so I can keep an eye kn him. Is this a good idea? He has no where else to go to be comfortable enough to get clean. The person he lives with is his supplier.

Just remember that you need to make sure to take care of YOU first and foremost, and that YOU don't hold yourself responsible for HIS recovery. You can't do it for him, no matter how badly you want to or how willing you are to bear his burden, it is his to bear. It will be hellish I am sure, but you sound like a pretty strong lady and I am sure you will get through this. Set a firm and clear boundary and stick to it, giving in is only enabling him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipmunk View Post
He wants to get clean asap so he can start fighting again. I just don't know what type of medical professional to take him to. He is going to stay with me through everything so I can keep an eye kn him. Is this a good idea? He has no where else to go to be comfortable enough to get clean. The person he lives with is his supplier.
This here reminds me SO MUCH of when I quit using and my (now) ex husband was so severely addicted that he couldn't stop on his own. I remember thinking that same thing, "if I don't give him a safe place to land, he is only going to have other tweakers to turn to for a place to be and he will just end up using more." I tried desperately to get that man clean by doing everything I could to prevent him from using, but eventually had to accept that I wasn't strong enough to keep myself clean and get him clean in the process. It took a long time for me to be able to accept that by allowing him to come home and taking care of him while he 'tried to get clean' was actually doing him more harm than good for both of us. I was essentially signing off on his continued use by giving him that safe place to land when he needed it. I would baby him, let him sleep, make his comedown as easy and stress free as possible and run myself ragged in the process all in hopes of him walking away from the dope and choosing our family. By always being the safe place, he KNEW he could go get high and disappear for a week or so and always have me to fall back on...he could sleep for 3 days without worry and have his meals brought to him. I did my best to make it easy...and then like clock work, on day five he would find some excuse to leave the house and I would not see or hear from him for days until he eventually would show up and cry about it being so hard and he wants our family etc etc...and we would start all over again.

Eventually, my counselor got through to me and helped me back to reality and to accept that the only person I could fix was ME and that was enough work. I set my boundary and when he did not come home at 9 as promised, and did not answer his phone when I called, I went to the store and purchased a new lockset and had it changed by 9:30. It was the scariest yet most freeing feeling to actually stick to my guns and actually DO what I had said I would do if he chose to go back out again. He eventually went to prison, and got clean in there and is doing okay now...he had to move away to get away from old connects and temptation, because he knows that even one hit for him and he is RIGHT BACK IN. I pray for our daughter's sake that he never takes one again.

I guess the point I am attempting to make here is that sometimes you have to love someone enough to intervene, but you also need to love yourself enough to know when to let go and let them hit bottom. There is only so much you can do and there is a fine line between helping and enabling and sometimes the best thing you can do for someone who is addicted to drugs is to step out of the way and stop cushioning their fall..

((((hugs)))) best of luck to you, it's a tough road, but there IS hope Keep us informed of how things go

PS I have been fortunate enough to not have had experience with a recovering Herion addict, so I'm sure that there will be some pretty major differences there, is it possible for him to go to a detox facility where they can ease him through the worst of it? I would also think it might be a good idea to sit down and discuss with him prior to 'quit day' to establish some sort of 'safety plan' for lack of a better term, you know something along the lines of who to contact if this, what to do if that, what your expectations are and what are his, what happens if it all becomes too much to handle, etc.

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sensible and supportive post, thank you for adding personal experience too
very kind and supportive post with own experience added.

Last edited by FluffyPinkElephant; 09-04-2012 at 10:40. Reason: added a lil bit
  #44  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:03
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

That reaction actually sounds sort of similar to when an old middleschool friend I made the mistake of inviting to stay in my home started shooting up on oxys on my couch, you could tell he was very deep into the addiction because he would get horrid sweats and start trying to find any way he could to get more, until I had to kick him out after he robbed me a few thousand dollars worth of electronics, anyway back onto subject he would shakily extract the pill after breaking it down in a spoon using a cotton swab to keep the filler out, I think anyway, then would shoot up and almost immediately would fall into a half dead trance but somehow would still manage conversation though, he sounded like he was half dead, and his eyes would not open at any point. He actually managed to get an infection during these shoot ups at one point while he was still staying there and was afraid to get it treated because he didn't want to get "stewart marksman acted" and we had to assure him his life wasn't worth witholding treatment for an infection, and it was a very bad looking infection, extremely swollen, and he's lucky he went because they had to drain the thing and give him a barrage of antibiotics as well.
  #45  
Old 09-04-2012, 18:21
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Fluffypinkelephant- thank you for the advice. We have already established emergency numbers and stuff but I will be home.with him most of the time. He knows what he has to lose and we have set up boundaries and even written everything down andand posted ita on the fridge. He has a hard road ahead of him but I hope that we will be able ti make it through. He has had his last hurrah and we are going to start tapering down today. He wanted to try cold turkey but I don't think he would have been able to do it. Although he is anxious he is excited to get back to the person he wants to be. I am hoping everything works out.

Khekarius my friend knows that he is not allowed to have any drugs in my house and since I will be home almost all the time I think he understands there is no way of getting it around me. I'm sorry about your friend. It sucks seeing someone you care about doing stuff like that to themselves.
  #46  
Old 09-04-2012, 18:33
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

It's good to see you are taking steps, and quite productive ones at that to help your friend, sometimes a good and stern friend that is willing to take the time to help you can be more productive than a rehab clinic for some people, keep up with him and do your best, just don't let yourself be drained down to a state of being weak or tired or depressed in the process, remember to take care of yourself too.

It was upsetting to have to kick him out, as him and I had some really deep and meaningful conversation while he was staying there, and I knew he was really having a hard time even though he wasn't to a point where he was willing to accept quitting. But like the post I just made, you have to stop to take care of you as well, when it goes from trying to pull up your friend that is drowning, only to look to to not see your friend on your arm but the titanic, you have to come to a point where you realize you can't help then and let it go, luckily, it seems like this isn't the case with your friend and that while he's not quite all the way there yet that with time he will get there.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 11-04-2012 at 09:28. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #47  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:20
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhekarius View Post
It's good to see you are taking steps, and quite productive ones at that to help your friend, sometimes a good and stern friend that is willing to take the time to help you can be more productive than a rehab clinic for some people, keep up with him and do your best, just don't let yourself be drained down to a state of being weak or tired or depressed in the process, remember to take care of yourself too.

Zhekarius added 2 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

It was upsetting to have to kick him out, as him and I had some really deep and meaningful conversation while he was staying there, and I knew he was really having a hard time even though he wasn't to a point where he was willing to accept quitting. But like the post I just made, you have to stop to take care of you as well, when it goes from trying to pull up your friend that is drowning, only to look to to not see your friend on your arm but the titanic, you have to come to a point where you realize you can't help then and let it go, luckily, it seems like this isn't the case with your friend and that while he's not quite all the way there yet that with time he will get there.
He has been to rehab before and he never stayed clean very long. I am hoping this will be the last time he will have to do something like this. I seem to be the type of person who forgets about their own needs to make sure their loved ones are ok. Buy I have my bestgirlfriend supporting me and keeping an eye on me so I don't lose.myself in the process. I understand completely about having to make that decision my sister was a sinking ship and she tool everyone down with her. I was the last person to have to step back but it was hard because after everything she was still my sister. Today was day one for him getting clean. He has done well and even went for a run today. I'm hoping things stay positive but I know tomorrow is going to be harder.
  #48  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:30
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

I'm going to continue to check in on you too and your advice is helping me loads. My friend is EXACTLY the same, taking care of the needs of others before herself, and thats why i'm taking up the cause of taking care of her, just getting her to allow that will be the touch one :P

I wasn;t sure where to post this idea, but i'm helping another woman on the forum, my idea was to come up with an action plan, as we need to find new routine to replace the phycological dependancy we have, so my idea was to start an action plan, I looked around and don't see such an idea posted, but are there others who want to start an action plan? we could have a huge brainstorming session and even help others more. Please let me know.
  #49  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:41
Chipmunk Chipmunk is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightsmith View Post
I'm going to continue to check in on you too and your advice is helping me loads. My friend is EXACTLY the same, taking care of the needs of others before herself, and thats why i'm taking up the cause of taking care of her, just getting her to allow that will be the touch one :P

I wasn;t sure where to post this idea, but i'm helping another woman on the forum, my idea was to come up with an action plan, as we need to find new routine to replace the phycological dependancy we have, so my idea was to start an action plan, I looked around and don't see such an idea posted, but are there others who want to start an action plan? we could have a huge brainstorming session and even help others more. Please let me know.
Thank you knightsmith. I'm glad I can help.
I think that is a good idea and I would definitely be interested in brainstorming on something like that. I think it could help a lot of people. I know that a lot of people are lost when it comes to this sort of thing and I think if we could try to devise a way to help more people it would be an awesome tool.
I had.no idea when I came to this site that I would get this much help. And I am truly thankful for everyone.
  #50  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:49
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Should i be worried. It feels like this was dangerous and he scared me.

I just hope that this idea will be widely accepted, it sounds like it could bring an extra level to the forum, I was only winging it, but yeah I felt it was a good idea, and the woman I spoke to liked it. I'll ask my other DF friend, and maybe I can put you in with us I feel like I came a cropper to benzo fury because I hadn't admitted that I had a psychological addiction too, which means I need to reprogram myself.

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