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Peyote & San Pedro All about Peyote, San Pedro and other mescaline cacti

 
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  #1  
Old 29-02-2012, 20:30
tweetwee tweetwee is offline
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1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

Hello,

AFOAF I know has been smoking weed for years. He's never tried any other substance.

He now feels a strong desire to experience with peyote (and eventually magic mushrooms at a later date). At this point, he's been concentrating on the "dos and don'ts" regarding mushroom usage (which, he concludes, is appliable to peyote). He still has much to learn but so far, he understands how :

- starting with a (very) small dose and building up from there is safer as it will enable him to get progressively acquainted with the effects and not be suddenly overwhelmed.
- a familiar/relaxed/comfortable/calm environment is important (i.e. his own flat).
- it is better to be rid of any obligations for the following 48 (plus) hours.
- it is not a party drug.
- fasting at least 6 hours prior to taking peyote/shrooms is preferable (light snack).
- it is of upmost importance to go with the flow and never try to fight the effects of the drug.
- in case things went wrong (which he doesn't intend on happening but can nonetheless not totally exclude), he could, for example, try singing in order to change the atmosphere or address the situation and express his disliking of the weird turn of events (courtesy of McKenna).
- preferably there should be someone around (that is not involved in the experience and/or who is familiar with said substance).

This last "condition" seems to be his biggest sticking point since he doesn't know anyone who could play the part (either with or without experience with the drug).

As a last resort, he could ask his brother to sit in but he's not convinced it would be a good solution. For one, he's concerned that someone with no experience whatsoever could in fact trigger a turn for the worse (through his inexperience in dealing with such a delicate situation) ... Also, he feels like convening intently for that purpose would definitely not create a "relaxed" atmosphere. He also doesn't know what he might say or do in his brother's presence and might not feel comfortable because of that. And then some.

For these reasons, he is considering going solo. As noted above, he would be very meticulous in creating an appropriate mindset and setting. His idea would be to start off with a very small amount and increase the dosage step by step after having waited 2 or 3 hours for the effect (of previously ingested dose) to have kicked in and "gauge" the potency of the substance.

This friend I know would also previously have warned his brother in detail about his project so he would make himself available on that day and stand by his phone (and/or would be reachable via windows messenger) if need be. These are the precautionary measures my friend has come up with so far to palliate the lack of appropriate acquaintances in his restrictive circle of friends.

Again, he's very keen on trying peyote. He views it as a positive, and possibly rewarding, experience he looks forward to. He's definitely intrigued. But, he feels it would be plain stupid not to take these "preemptive" measures just in case as he understands these products are powerful and ought not to be fu**ed around with.

I've basically summarized his thought process in preparing for this hypothetical experience. He would very much like to benefit from the wealth of knowledge which experienced users (and maybe people who went through it alone) would like to share with him about the feasibility (and, maybe, risk involved) in doing it alone in the conditions I have outlined above. Your honest opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading.
  #2  
Old 02-03-2012, 14:23
tweetwee tweetwee is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

Hey,
In light of the overwhelming response this thread has generated, my friend, Billy Shakes, is understandably a bit disappointed. He was hoping to get at least a tidbit of advice.
Nonetheless, he's going to go forward with the project in a few weeks time.
To hell with it.
  #3  
Old 02-03-2012, 15:41
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

The dangerousness of doing it alone depends on many things, the amount of drug you do (how fucked you are), how you react to the drug, what kind of personality you have, what kind of karma you carry, there are hundreds of factors to take into account. You might be fine. You might not.

If it was me, I would wait until I had a 'sitter' or someone to trip with. It's not worth the risk because if it goes wrong you could be endangering yourself and others especially for a first timer eg.

A friend of mine freaked out on a very low dose of acid and jumped out of a moving car. He was convinced we were going to purposely crash the car and kill him. We found him half an hour later running around evening fields completely insane. Lucky it was us who found him and not the police etc. Also lucky we were out in the country and not in a city.

That's just one example of things that can go wrong. Most of the time you will have a good trip. But safety precautions are there for good reasons.
  #4  
Old 02-03-2012, 18:51
Yail Bloor Yail Bloor is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

In my dear friend Dr. Raoul Duke's opinion, you have made a good choice selecting mescaline-bearing cacti for you first psychedelic adventure. In Raoul's experience, mescaline is the most gentle and dreamy of the psychedelics when used in low-ish doses, and is less likely to cause a 'freak-out' then many other options. On the flip-side the increadibly long duration when compared to mushrooms could be challenging for a first timer, so I guess its a bit of a trade-off there.

Let me ask this, and without giving too much information (ie: source discussion), were is the Peyote comming from? Online vendor, a local grower, fresh plant, or dried flesh? Why I ask is that Dr. Duke has known online suppliers of live cacti to be highly unreliable. Many online vendors cultivate Peyote for the largest mass possible, with little regard to alkaloid content. He has known more then one person who has eaten substantial quantitees of fresh Peyote from online vendors and gotten little-to-no effect what-so-ever. The point of my inquiry here is that mescaline content in Peyote, werever it comes from, can fluxuate greatly. My advise would be to do San Pedro or Peruvian Torch instead, as these cacti tend to have more consistent alkaloid contents and would make doseing much easier. I understand Peyote has a certain allure compared to these lesser known cacti, but ultimately a newbie wouldn't be able to tell the subtle differences in cacti species - mescaline is mescaline, so to speak.

Other then that, you seem to have a good understanding of this undertaking. You also raise an excellent point when you said "For one, he's concerned that someone with no experience whatsoever could in fact trigger a turn for the worse (through his inexperience in dealing with such a delicate situation) ... Also, he feels like convening intently for that purpose would definitely not create a "relaxed" atmosphere. He also doesn't know what he might say or do in his brother's presence and might not feel comfortable because of that". Raoul used cactus (Peruvian Torch) for the first time with his brother, not as a sitter but together, and made every possible preperation before the experience to ensure the highest possible level of safety and security, and everything worked out well. Thats not to say that the same would work for you, but if a person with a negative energy or an overly-concerned demeanor is present, I guarantee you will pick up on that and it will effect your experience. I may get slammed for saying this, as it even goes against my harm-reductive instincts, but based on the criteria you have outlined here (provided you abide by it to a T) I see no reason you shouldn't be able to do this alone. Having a reliable ally on-call, in the event you do need someone, is an excellent idea.

By the way, don't take the lack of responses personally, there's just not a whole lot of die-hard cactus enthusiasts on this forum to be able to help you out here. Feel free to PM me anytime for more one-on-one discussion.

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Helpful attitude both here and in the follow-up post!
Useful advice

Last edited by Yail Bloor; 02-03-2012 at 19:09.
  #5  
Old 03-03-2012, 20:16
tweetwee tweetwee is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

Thanks for your respective inputs mates.
Yail, your answer calls forth several new questions.
But answering your query first : yes, Billy Shakes' original plan was to order Peyote online from one of two Dutch stores (could send PM specifiying which, in case you or Raoul may know of their reputation).

Your reply has Billy wondering about a few things now...

  • How is it that alkaloid content (mescaline) from online vendors would vary so much and that chances would be the peyote would contain very little? Does it stem from the fact that they, very likely, speed the growth up by grafting it to another species?
  • Furthermore, is it to say the only genuine way to consume peyote is either by growing it by oneself (Billy does not have the patience to wait 7 years, let alone one) or, in Billy's case, to travel from Europe to the US to meet up with Native American Church representatives (although he recognizes this is definitely the BEST possible way, he also understands it's very unlikely to happen).
  • The online stores he was considering carry big clusters. Example : height 6,5 cm x diameter 9 cm x 5 cm high on average. He was going to go for one of those. So if I follow your reasoning would it mean that these big clusters were grafted but in fact have not developped sufficent amounts of alkaloids eventhough they have reached a respectable size?
  • Without writing off peyote yet, Peruvian torch or San Pedro could indeed reveal to be an excellent fallback plan in which case which would Raoul go for first?
To further consolidate Billy's case, he forgot to mention that not only will his brother be on-call that day but he also happens to live less than a mile away.
  #6  
Old 03-03-2012, 22:29
Yail Bloor Yail Bloor is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetwee View Post
But answering your query first : yes, Billy Shakes' original plan was to order Peyote online from one of two Dutch stores (could send PM specifiying which, in case you or Raoul may know of their reputation).
Please don't, PM or not this would qualify as source discussion. As such I am limited in the advise I can give on that particular end of the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetwee View Post
How is it that alkaloid content (mescaline) from online vendors would vary so miIuch and that chances would be the peyote would contain very little? Does it stem from the fact that they, very likely, speed the growth up by grafting it to another species?
Many factors can attribute to low mescaline content in mature-looking Peyote, including grafting, overly frequent watering, type of lights used, etcetera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetwee View Post
Furthermore, is it to say the only genuine way to consume peyote is either by growing it by oneself (Billy does not have the patience to wait 7 years, let alone one) or, in Billy's case, to travel from Europe to the US to meet up with Native American Church representatives (although he recognizes this is definitely the BEST possible way, he also understands it's very unlikely to happen).
No, not necessarily, there are some vendors that grow live Peyote under proper conditions for maximum alkaloid content, but without trial and error, there is no way to no which is which until you have tried and failed. With Peyote being an expensive plant no matter were you get it from, this could be a costly learning process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetwee View Post
The online stores he was considering carry big clusters. Example : height 6,5 cm x diameter 9 cm x 5 cm high on average. He was going to go for one of those. So if I follow your reasoning would it mean that these big clusters were grafted but in fact have not developped sufficent amounts of alkaloids eventhough they have reached a respectable size?
Again, not necessarily, this plant may or may not have been grown under good conditions for alkaloid production, and may or may not have been grafted, there's no way I can say for sure. Although a picture would probably give me a leg to stand on here, there is no guarantee that the plant in the picture would be the plant you receive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetwee View Post
Without writing off peyote yet, Peruvian torch or San Pedro could indeed reveal to be an excellent fallback plan in which case which would Raoul go for first?
Dried San Pedro or Peruvian Torch would be both cheaper and more reliable then fresh Peyote. Dr. Duke personally prefers Peruvian Torch, as it is capable of having a higher mescaline content then San Pedro, but San Pedro has a more stable alkaline content over all, so this might be the best bet for a first timer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetwee View Post
To further consolidate Billy's case, he forgot to mention that not only will his brother be on-call that day but he also happens to live less than a mile away.
All the better in that regard. Be safe.

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Last edited by Yail Bloor; 04-03-2012 at 06:42.
  #7  
Old 03-03-2012, 23:16
sweetleaf64 sweetleaf64 is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

I don't know much about mescaline, but since it's your first time with a psycedelic substance it would be best to do it with someone else more experienced.

In the case of my friend, he told me that when he used mushrooms for the first time he would have freaked out if someone wasn't with him. The person he was with was using them too, they were at a concert and nothing bad happened at all. But just the company was enough to calm him down.

If you can't find anyone with some experience with psychedelics then I think it would be better to do it alone, because someone that doesn't understand how delicate of a situation it is will most likely overreact to it out of concern. You might get stressed out being around someone that doesn't know what's happening.

Just make sure that anything that can cause harm like sharp objects are put away in a spot that's hard to get to.

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Excellent, thoughtful advise that the OP should definitatly consider.
  #8  
Old 05-03-2012, 14:16
tweetwee tweetwee is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleaf64 View Post

Just make sure that anything that can cause harm like sharp objects are put away in a spot that's hard to get to.
This last sentence leaves Billy rather puzzled. He doesn't catch the drift.

What does it entail? That a person would be susceptible of stabbing oneself, slashing one's wrists or poking one's eye's out? Either intentionally or unintentionally? Is about manipulating sharp objects and harming oneself by accident without noticing or is it about suicidal tendencies? What risk is at hand?

For example, does it mean Billy should hand over his collection of straight razors for the duration of the experience? And his cutlery too?

tweetwee added 29 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

For the record Billy's not suicidal but he's a bit taken aback by the remark. He's just trying to gauge more accurately what the author meant about the precautionary measures with sharp objects and identify the primary source of concern when under the influence. Bottom line : is it about loss of bodily awareness and thus harm potential when in the vicinity of sharp objects?

Last edited by tweetwee; 05-03-2012 at 14:16. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #9  
Old 05-03-2012, 14:24
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

In the same way you would not be advised to run with sissors in your hand its advisable (at least for the first time) to be in a safe setting, as (dose depending) you are possibly not going to be in complete control or at least as co-ordinated as usual. Consider it a 'do not operate heavy machinery' warning.

There is also the fact that many people and halucinogenic drugs just dont go well together, regardless of their state of mind in general.
A small number of people have uncomfortable experiences, freak out and end up harming themselves, mostly unintentionally and sometimes intentionally.

You should always be prepared before setting out on a trip, much like anything else.

While its unlikely, its always good to be safe.
Mescaline and psilocybin are not (espicially at small doses) as big an issue as substances like Salvia, where people often flay about or try to get up and move around and can often injure themselves.

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  #10  
Old 13-03-2012, 19:25
tweetwee tweetwee is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

If AFOAF is going to use around the easter holidays, he's thinking he should probably get a move on and go through with his online order.

He's read various trip reports and topics on how to use, etc. He's been through the sticky on how to use 40-50g. But practically speaking, the store only deals in lengths of San Pedro (not mass) his main concern now is how many he should order.

For a first time, he's aiming for about 30g dried (40 tops). The store carries 30cm cuttings or 50-60cm cuttings but my mate Billy Shakes has no idea whatsoever how much they weigh with and/or without water content.

In other words, for 30-40g dried, how many of the above cuttings is AFOAF looking at?
  #11  
Old 15-03-2012, 19:14
tweetwee tweetwee is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

OK, he tells me the order's been placed !
I'm sure my friend will be more than glad to share his experience when it's done !
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Old 18-03-2012, 18:04
Karmageddon Karmageddon is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

I'm sorry for not offering advice sooner, but I am happy that your friend made the wise decision of going with the san pedro. As I'm sure you are aware, the peyote cactus is an endangered species and I fear that those making a profit off of it may not have the purest of intentions. Not only this, but also availability, price, and a heck of a lot more experiences for your friend to base his off of means that san pedro or another more common mescaline containing cactus is definitely the right way to go.

I too would caution your friend against embarking on his first journey alone. I have seen psychedelics affect people in many different ways, not all of them positive. Not trying to scare your friend, but it's best to go into these things well prepared. A distant friend of mine who is very well-versed in hallucinogens has had some negative experiences with psylocybin (on a few of different occasions because of course the first time was just "a fluke".) Under the influence of hallucinogens, physical symptoms like vomiting, blacking out, or having a seizure (all of which have happened to my friend) can really taint the mental aspect of the trip. Different things affect people differently. I just want your friend to appreciate the seriousness of the journey and to be prepared. This is not a case of mental fortitude vs weakness. Hallucinogens have a tendency to make very small things significant and I'd hate for your friend to not take these things into consideration. Be safe and have fun!
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Old 18-03-2012, 18:33
Lodewijkp Lodewijkp is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

i think you are better off trying hallucinogenic truffles.. they are less strong and you can build up some experience.

most substances are just unpredictable as fuck .. my pink elephant has done psilocybin atlantis like 30 times, and a few times with MAOI ( lol ). My pink elephant never got what he wanted and never got the same trip.

after years of experience i rather do it alone.. this way i have no one interrupting me, even if there is someone around using the same substance - every trip is different they won't understand you anyway.

the most in important point is to sit still in one place.. have this plan in place - don't drink to much and clean up your room and above else stick to one place..
don't go outside and don't go do other stuff when you are tripping...going to the bathroom seems perfectly ok and normal.. after visiting the toilet you are probably going crazy about not washing your hands... washing your hands is a stupid idea in the first place because you are tripping your balls off you don't know if you are using the hot or cold tap because you aren't feeling any temperature...

now you are getting crazy and complicated because you have no idea or perspective of time ( time disorted ) you don't know what you were doing last 30 minutes - you were probably just thinking about washing your hands for 30 minutes...

now you've made stuff complex , you've wasted some time of your trip and you don't know what you have done in those 30 minutes. ..now you started getting a bit of panic.

KEEP it simple and stick to the plan... don't go to the toilet ( just don't drink, take a piss if you really have to ), don't go play video games and don't touch the stove , water tap, alcohol drinks.

light a candle ( which is out of reach on a safe place like a closet )...trips change with light.. i use candles because they flicker and because ot his they induce visions. Put up some meditative music and MEDITATE.. meditating just makes trips better long term.

when you don't have experienced you will be hit by the wall, you probably would be totally wasted and tripping your balls off... once you get some experience and knowledge about the mushroom reality you can move around and do stuff. if im planning to take a huge trip by taking a large amount of anything i always hide knives, firelighters, scissors, foods on which i can choke ( peanut butter )
  #14  
Old 19-03-2012, 14:23
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmageddon View Post
I'm sorry for not offering advice sooner, but I am happy that your friend made the wise decision of going with the san pedro. As I'm sure you are aware, the peyote cactus is an endangered species and I fear that those making a profit off of it may not have the purest of intentions. Not only this, but also availability, price, and a heck of a lot more experiences for your friend to base his off of means that san pedro or another more common mescaline containing cactus is definitely the right way to go.

I too would caution your friend against embarking on his first journey alone. I have seen psychedelics affect people in many different ways, not all of them positive. Not trying to scare your friend, but it's best to go into these things well prepared. A distant friend of mine who is very well-versed in hallucinogens has had some negative experiences with psylocybin (on a few of different occasions because of course the first time was just "a fluke".) Under the influence of hallucinogens, physical symptoms like vomiting, blacking out, or having a seizure (all of which have happened to my friend) can really taint the mental aspect of the trip. Different things affect people differently. I just want your friend to appreciate the seriousness of the journey and to be prepared. This is not a case of mental fortitude vs weakness. Hallucinogens have a tendency to make very small things significant and I'd hate for your friend to not take these things into consideration. Be safe and have fun!
As I mentionned, this friend is going to be very prepared. He's already read lots of advice and experience reports and although that doesn't account for real experience it definitely helps along the lines of knowing what to expect and what to do/not to do. In that regard, he's become very familiar with the "instructions" on how to operate (which is a good thing).

Also, I pointed out that there was no one trustworthy enough in his circle of acquaintances to accompany him on this journey except eventually for his brother (who's never tried it before). As such, several members came to a conclusion similar to mine and my friend's in that it would be better to be unaccompanied rather than badly accompanied (i.e. by someone whith no prior experience with this substance and who could unintentionally f**k things up for the user).

Basically, there are no other options for him and he feels it would be stupid to give up on the idea just on account of him not knowing the right person at this moment in time (and having to wait how many more years in order to meet and become close friends with such a person?)... doesn't make sense to him.

So far, these are his main guidelines :
- he'll wait until easter holidays (no obligations for over a week, will be relaxed).
- will have fasted the day before.
- do a spring cleaning (and remove all sharp objects).
- lock the door, close the curtains, switch the phone off.
- take a small dose (maybe half of what a mild trip calls for).
- understands how it is paramount to accept and never fight the effects.
- has read about how to deal with a "bad" trip (just in case).
- will have brother on standby that day (again, just in case) (lives a couple miles away).
- may have some good music (peyote music) within reach if he feels like it.
- will have prepared simple foods (fruit, cereal, biscuits) and drinks in advance which will require no cutting/cooking.
- he understands the substance must be treated with respect (hence the above precautions) but keep in mind that at the core my friend is very curious (in a positive way) about this potential experience (feels like it's the right time for him to try it).
  #15  
Old 19-03-2012, 16:25
slay13 slay13 is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

You sound really prepared, which is always a good thing. However, if you build it up too much in your head, the anticipation could facilitate some unnecessary anxiety. If you've got a plan then you'll be fine. One thing that I think is key for coming down off of any hallucinogens is to have a benzo on hand to calm you down if needed and also to help you get to sleep/ get level again afterwards. These will make the trip less intense though so make sure you take them at the end or only if needed. Have fun my fellow spunion.
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Old 06-04-2012, 23:47
tweetwee tweetwee is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

My friend has finally got the answer to the initial question posed in the title of this thread and feels as if it could be summarized best as follows : F**K YEAH !

Actually he found the answer this very day.

Wow.

He's still in it though the peak is somewhat (regretfully) behind him now...

At this point, the question would now have organically evolved into "when is he going to plan his next trip?" ... suffice to say it went f***ing GREAT (according to him that is).

I think, eventually, he would like to try and relate this trip in the appropriate section (goes without saying).
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:23
Yail Bloor Yail Bloor is offline
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

I couldn't be happier to hear everything worked out for your friend. Mescaline is a true gift from the heavens and one I personally believe all psychedelic users should get to experience at least once in there journeys. That said, understand that your friend did take a risk, albeit a very controlled and considered one, but a risk none the less. As such it may not be appropriate to send the message that anyone would have a good experience repeating your friends actions, though I'd bet most who took the care and preparation your friend did would fair well in this situation.

Please do write up an experience report and if possible, reply to this thread with a link, as I know I for one would very interested to read it. Congratulations on your friends first psychedelic experience, hopefully this will be the beginning of a very beneficial journey, and if nothing else, a positive and enjoyable memory to look back on and smile. Be well.
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Old 07-04-2012, 14:31
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Re: 1st experience with peyote : can it be done alone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yail Bloor View Post
I couldn't be happier to hear everything worked out for your friend. Mescaline is a true gift from the heavens and one I personally believe all psychedelic users should get to experience at least once in there journeys. That said, understand that your friend did take a risk, albeit a very controlled and considered one, but a risk none the less. As such it may not be appropriate to send the message that anyone would have a good experience repeating your friends actions, though I'd bet most who took the care and preparation your friend did would fair well in this situation.

Please do write up an experience report and if possible, reply to this thread with a link, as I know I for one would very interested to read it. Congratulations on your friends first psychedelic experience, hopefully this will be the beginning of a very beneficial journey, and if nothing else, a positive and enjoyable memory to look back on and smile. Be well.
Yeah, you know what, you're absolutely right and I didn't make this clear enough - although the thought did enter my mind as I was writing it - but to make things even clearer to any prospective first time user : this was a personal answer to AFOAF's personal question and as such is not transposable to other people i.e. what worked for him might not work for you.
Billy found out he was mentally as ready and strong as ever for this trip, for which he also took many precautions and did quite a bit of research several months prior to the actual experience (lots of thought and planning went into this).

Thanks for the kind words.

Will post a trip report asap.

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Good clarification.

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