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  #1  
Old 07-04-2012, 10:33
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

My friend has been putting a lot, and I mean a lot of thought the past few hours into why he so desperately wants to reach a state of delirious hallucination, and it has occurred to him that he wants to break himself, to cause absolute ego death (yes, I am aware of the implications of doing this and complications/dangers involved) so that in the process he can get back in touch with his "core" at the deepest level and rebirth so to speak in a sense. Would the dissociative properties of extremely high doses of dxm be able to achieve the desired result? I am fully aware this would mean my friend would be causing a psychotic break and am fully ready to deal with it once it occurs, my friend will be in a safe place should he try this where I and some friends will be able to make sure he's ok. If another substance would be better suited to the task, what would it be? I would like to note that my friend has some serious life issues that over a decade of dedicated therapy, soul searching and medicine has not fixed, and is why he is turning to something drastic like this, please do not try to dissuade my friend or tell him this is a bad idea, again precautions are more than being taken to assure safety both during and after the experience, I am simply hoping to get opinions on whether or not dxm would work for this for my friend or if there would be a better way of going about this?

Many thanks in advance for any opinions on this matter.

I'm not saying my friend isn't open to other ideas in how to go about doing this, but he is for certain going to one way or another induce ego death and most likely psychosis in a controlled enviroment where with the help of friends and some psychology in the most extreme of senses repair an otherwise damaged soul so to speak.


If you guys can't help me with this my friend may be on his own :\ so I'm hoping someone can provide some insight to this for my friend and myself being concerned for him, your advice and opinions are greatly appreciated, truly.


My friend and I came to the conclusion that dxm may be appropriate based on everything I have read up about it over the past few years, that it is an easily obtainable dissociative, that it has the potential to cause psychosis with prolonged use, that high doses can cause dream like states and profound and sometimes life changing experiences, and while it seems to me like it would do the job I JUST want to be sure my friend is not wasting his time and needlessly taking a rather large dose of dxm for a reason that it could never achieve, if that is the case my friend would rather just hold onto the dxm for later use in a less extreme fashion.


The ego death thing wasn't an idea that popped up over night either, the fact that it just now is occurring to me that is "why" my friend has been messing with delirants and some less orthodox substances is because of this is merely a little burst of insightfulness after patrolling around the forums a little bit this evening and reading a few posts, making a few posts and threads, and then really stopping to think for a moment "why exactly, am, I so intent on going to that extreme", my friend for a long time now, longer than he's been using substances has been trying to find a way to do this, to "break himself" in that regard so that a process of new beginning can occur.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 10-04-2012 at 19:42. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #2  
Old 07-04-2012, 12:32
bluestar bluestar is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

EDIT: I just spotted your posts in a different thread. I assumed you hadn't taken DXM before but it looks like the opposite is true. So disregard the next paragraph and pick up reading after that.

I would not advise you to shoot for ego death if this is going to be the first time you ever use this substance. Most people can handle the first and second plateaus without much problem except for nausea, maybe. But if you're just going to shoot for a third or fourth plateau for your first time? Well, I just hope you know what you're getting into because you can experience some intense stuff when you're in the dextroverse. Ego death is obviously one of most extreme feelings you can get from DXM but I'm not at all convinced that you have to experience such a feeling in order to grapple with personal issues or learn something about yourself.

I was a trip sitter for a good buddy of mine (his experience was in alcohol and marijuana) one night. He ended up doing 360 mg of DXM plus two or three cups of white grapefruit juice as a potentiator. For the first hour and a half nothing at all happened to him. Then at the two hour mark he told me, "I think this is... hitting me really... hard... whoa." I mean, just the look in his gaze told me the entirety of what he was going through, haha. It just hit him right between the eyes and he was heavily intoxicated. It didn't help much that I had just smoked some weed and I started getting worried about what he was going through (it's never good when the trip sitter starts freaking out, haha) so I just tried to keep my cool. He ended up hitting the third plateau and had a powerful trip. He had these really long segments of just staring off into space and thinking for a long time. What he "saw" really freaked him out. He related to me later that it was like he was stepping outside of his mind and it allowed for a lot of introspection about drug use, addiction, and suicide. In short: not the kind of stuff most people want to think about on their first DXM trip.

Anyway, DXM can absolutely cause temporary ego death, feelings of rebirth, and extended periods of introspection. But I would advise you to take it easy with the substance. It's easy to misunderstand what it can do to you or underestimate the power of its effects.

I've never experienced total ego death on DXM but have had a handful of profound 3rd plateau experiences. In my humble opinion, the trips have never fully answered any questions I had about myself. In fact, the trips usually end up raising more questions than giving answers. I've experienced total ego death on methoxetamine numerous times but it's a similar thing. A lot of times I can be left with a feeling of spiritual renewal but other times I leave the trip feeling as though I was deconstructed and never quite put back together in the way I had anticipated.

If anything, I think dissociatives can give you food for thought. But I've always had to go out into the real world again to implement whatever it is I learned or gained new perspective on. A glimmer of insight can be offered, maybe, but the sober self will have to perspire and follow up on making things happen in order to help yourself feel better again.

Good luck man!

Post Quality Evaluations:
Excellent, comprehensive post informed by personal experience. Well done!
it is very well written, well thought out, and great advice to the ops query, good show.

Last edited by bluestar; 07-04-2012 at 12:39.
  #3  
Old 08-04-2012, 16:15
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

That was exactly the kind of response I was hoping for, my friend will definitely benefit from your sagely words, exactly the kind of thing he needed to hear , after a few failed sigma attempts I think my friend may back off for a little while and gather supplies for an extraction first and let his tolerance fade back to the baseline as well.


On a related note, my friend would like to report that while his sigma attempts thus far have failed, they did help him completely remove the desire to smoke AM-2201 and he finally has that impulse under control now.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 10-04-2012 at 19:42. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #4  
Old 08-04-2012, 16:47
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

no, psychedelics will do a much better job then DXM.

What books have you read to prepare your self for this? You HAVE done research, no?
  #5  
Old 08-04-2012, 17:29
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

On dxm, yes, used the dxm faq and a lot of it's source material to study up on dxm, as for the ego death, the works of carl jung and the collective unconscious.


Unfortunately for my friend he hasn't the slightest idea where to get most psychadellics around his area, dxm was brought into question because it is easily obtained and readily available, and out of the substances that fall into that category it seemed to be the best candidate.

Internet died, as I was saying, LSD doesn't seem to exist in florida anymore that my friend or I can find, have not even "seen" shrooms or anyone selling them, and do not even begin to know where to look for salvia or DMT. Not only that but my friend is in poverty and lacks a vehicle, so as the saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 10-04-2012 at 19:42. Reason: Automerged Doublepost, cleaning post.
  #6  
Old 08-04-2012, 17:47
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

pick up some more psychedelic literature on the subject, Robert Anton Wilson, Dale Pendell, Tim Leary.

Sorry about not being able to find things. They are out there and will be when the time is right. Keep making friends. Just don't ask around here.
  #7  
Old 08-04-2012, 17:52
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

Think that time may be behind my buddy, all his previous connections have given up the supply business, I appreciate the literature and will pass those along to my friend for research. Maybe down the road my friend will get some luck and stumble across a source of DMT or ayauasca, until that time and due to a lack of anything more appropriate, he will be planning another attempt once his tolerance is down again this time with an extraction to ensure none of the medicine is lost during the process and produce a cleaner experience.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:29
bluestar bluestar is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

There are some synthetic hallucinogens and tryptamines out there (4-AcO-DMT, the 2C series, 5-MeO-DALT, etc.) but from what I've found, they are expensive by comparison to most other synthetic chemicals, but who knows you might be able to find some good deals out there. Of course, using synthetics opens up a bunch of avenues for abuse since they are relatively easy to obtain, legal, and could just end up causing all sorts of damage to your body and mind.

Heh, if you're in Florida you might be able to find some shady out-of-town characters during spring break/summer vacation but it's a hit and miss kind of deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhekarius
On a related note, my friend would like to report that while his sigma attempts thus far have failed, they did help him completely remove the desire to smoke AM-2201 and he finally has that impulse under control now.
Oh yeah, I could definitely see that being the case. Using MXE and DXM, I almost completely lost my desire to smoke marijuana. Heavy dissociative use can do some weird stuff to the reward circuits in the brain. Some days I would wake up, practically leap out of bed and just do homework for like 4 hours, go to all my classes, and pay close attention to every lecture... I wouldn't need to sleep much and ate only two small meals consisting of vegetables, fruit, a few carbohydrates, and a bit of meat per day. It was weird stuff. Of course, after heavy abuse practically the opposite of everything started happening. Would wake up feeling terrible, cut class, ate at odd times of the day, slept a lot, started smoking marijuana more, felt really depressed. The gravy train just doesn't keep chugging on forever. It was one of the hardest wake-up calls I ever had to face. Everyone has to decide when to jump off the train and I waited far too long.
  #9  
Old 09-04-2012, 08:36
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

Actually my friend found that not only does the desire seem gone, but AM-2201 no longer seems to make him high, and he tried a few times throughout the day before throwing out his remaining supply to be absolutely sure, the first attempt with just a few trial hits, small ones, after waiting a few hours to be sure he tried again with much larger hits from the bong, but still..nothing! Truly bizarre. My friend has actually had a couple encounters with 2c-e now that you've mentioned it, it was fairly similar to lsd but it has it's unique characteristics for sure and seemed a lot more paranoid feeling than lsd.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:54
bluestar bluestar is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

Oh wow, that is pretty extreme if AM-2201 is down for the count. I always used to enjoy using cannabis/synthetic cannabinoids during the come-down or afterglow period. It was like a swift kick in the rump and I would be feeling the trip coming back again. But if you're not feeling anything at all... that is pretty curious.

Maybe, like you said, this is just a blessing in disguise. I know coming off AM-2201 can be hellish and if you can get a little extra help from DXM, that sounds like it'll be a big plus.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:37
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

I can honestly say never in my life have I heard of something like this happening as what my friend has experienced though I certainly by no means am an expert on the subject, I'm sure something about the combination of chemicals and his brain chemistry worked out to some unique end that night, but to what end is anyone's guess, what must have went on up there... never the less, my friend definitely will not miss the dozens of dollars he was shoveling away on that crud (AM-2201) every day or every other day or occasionally week.

The said act of, rather.


My friend is very wary of approaching strangers for drug dealings, especially during a scenario like spring break, seems like a good way to probably get in trouble, best my friend can do is hope something rolls along in it's own time, and in the meantime make due with the resources available.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 10-04-2012 at 19:43. Reason: Automerged Doublepost, clarifying
  #12  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:54
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

Hey,

I know that it has more or less been decided that something different would be more appropriate for what you are trying to achieve, but I wanted to throw my two cents in because a few years ago I found myself feeling the same way you did and DXM was what I used to accomplish this. To some extent it did have to do with availability, I have had very limited access to and experience with psychedelics in my life, but I also was drawn to DXM. Admittedly my intentions were less benign and my attitude towards drugs was less mature.

I did succeed in completely separating from my own mind. This did not occur as the result of a single dose but daily doses of 960 - 1440 mg over the course of a week (2 - 3 boxes of Coricidin, which of course is not a suitable product to use recreationally because it contains chlorpheneramine). The strain of daily use was what "broke" me as much as the drug itself. This was a ritualistic process to me and one that completely changed my life and gave me invaluable experience. At the same time I could never recommend it to anybody because it is so incredibly taxing; the mind goes to so many places that it never has before. I was always high and barely ever had the will to eat. I remember feeling as though i was literally part of a different world than those around me.

DXM will rarely induce a break in sanity used at "proper" recreational doses/frequencies and this is why you probably want to consider something else as has been suggested. At the end, I remember looking up to see a dense, black cobweb hanging from my ceiling and became extremely panicked when i realized i could pass my hand right through it. These hallucinations escalated until I saw bugs crawling towards me and strange floaters in the background that looked like bacteria. I thought I was dying when a hot, numb feeling spread outward from my chest. I went to the hospital and remember little else of the experience... the next morning when I got home, I lay in bed and thought that I slept at the bottom of the ocean. A giant turtle swam above me.

Part of my DXM use had to do with recklessness and that is why I let it get to the point it did when my body was clearly telling me to stop. Also it is worth mentioning that I had a history of psychotic breaks caused by drug use. I am not saying these things neccessarily happen and in fact I have heard accounts of people who took far greater doses over far greater periods of time. My point is this; DXM is not a substance that you want to see how far you go with. It will leave you feeling stupid, lethargic, and yearning for that initial wonder that inevitably will not be replicated. This is particularly a problem with DXM, at least for me and reportedly for others, that the body will develop a permanent tolerance and this can be incredibly frustrating.

Anyways I never thought I'd be ranting about harm reduction... but reflecting on my experiences with DXM I am truely horrified by what it did to me. I don't think it's safe to push any drug to its most extreme limits... drugs are meant to be the means to an end but invariably become the end itself under heavy use (addiction). I hope this story was of some use to somebody.

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I think this was a great experience to share, it definitely illustrated the very real risks of prolongued and regular dxm use
  #13  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:09
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

I certainly agree that dxm is not something to be taken lightly, and certainly not something you want to mess around with on a frequent basis and certainly not at frequent high doses, I've read quite a few reports of people struggling with addiction to it at doses of 2000 and even 3000 mgs at a time, far above what would be possible without a strong tolerance.

My friend in that regard also finds he has a tendency towards rather intense experiences even before using substances at all, as his entire life has sort of been a test of sanity to a rather profound degree at many times even in his early childhood, and has been doing a lot of reading into jungian archtypes, ego death, and the collective unconscious over the past couple of years and felt like perhaps it was a necessary risk for him, he certainly doesn't recommend anyone else go copying his actions by any means, but we all have our own limits and thresholds and sometimes there's just a point where you as an individual feel you need to break a threshold or boundry.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 11-04-2012 at 18:43. Reason: cleaning
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:18
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

Somehow my neighbour's friend's dog got access to my laptop and wrote the previous post... he says he would alter the post to reflect this if he knew how to. My neighbour's friend's dog says that he can sympathize very well with where your friend coming from but also advises that such a desire may stem from a lack of healthier coping mechanisms. On the other hand said dog may simply be projecting his own mindset on your friend, in which case he wishes a safe and productive exploration.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:28
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

There is certainly no harm in expressing in any capacity the risks involved with substance use, and everyone can benefit from learning about it.

If my friend "did" have a more productive and more likely to produce an overall positive end result of a substance available to him he would most definitely utilize it first and foremost but again, a big issue comes as availability for him and lack of a more appropriate or effective substance, and being one that he at least understands well enough to feel safe using so long as he keeps the experiences far enough apart, he certainly has no desire to cease to live, and of course does what he can to ensure that if something went wrong, he would get the help needed, like having a trip sitter around, and taking steps to avoid over exertion or situations that could create trouble for him or injury.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 10-04-2012 at 19:43. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:39
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

My neighbour's friend's dog does admit that a certain amount of typecasting my have gone into his judgment call because he related it very closely to a previous period in his own life. Your philosophy on the appropriate use of psychoactives is certainly an admirable one and one that this dog still strives to attain.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:45
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

Zhekarius, Is this what you mean, I share the need to clean the ego or clean the spirit of the physical ego. Like It can get bad to where I keep bottling my emotions up and as much as I know I need to and I wish I could just.. let it all out and cry, let go and forget about all the negativity bottled up do you know what i'm saying? Is this kind of what you mean?

DXM kind of has a middle ground, it's deffinately not an ego drug atleast rarely, dxm always gave me the best most euphoric trips but at the same time didn't get anywhere near my ego.

Psychedelics are deff A better way to go it's just harder to build up the courage sometimes in some cases, actually only when it comes to LSA in Hawwiian babywoodrose seeds, such a nice psychedelic would think it would be perfect for that, but building up the courage to eat those seeds...

MDAI helped semi-clean me out, but in reading and writing this post, I'm challenging myself to eat those seeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestar View Post
I've experienced total ego death on methoxetamine numerous times but it's a similar thing.
Whaaat? really? for me that drug is horrible for my ego if anything

Last edited by Kamuix; 09-04-2012 at 12:55.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:55
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

While my friend is very aware that during bouts of impulsivity due to his bi polar disorder he has done some heroicly stupid things involving substances at all other times he takes a great deal of care in looking into what substances are both out there and even more so into the ones he can find and are easily available to him as they are more prevalent to him for what should be obvious reasons.

In a lot of my posts and threads I have written I have made attempts at citing that the doses and experiences my friend has attempted may not always be wise for just anyone to go about trying and some of them he outright doesn't ever recommend anyone doing, they are just experiences he has managed to push through and come out no worse for wear, and being the somewhat fiesty bi polar, autistic and all around extreme sort of person he is just finds it's the most radical of these experiences that end up being the ones that make him grow the most as an individual thus far, eventually I'm sure my friend will reach a point where he's satisfied with what he's discovered about his mind and the drug experience as a whole and will leave it to fond and ever increasingly distant memories with time and age, but that point is not now, not yet, and my friend hasn't reached that all mighty peak he's searching for, so he will continue with his best efforts to search until he finds it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamuix View Post
Zhekarius, Is this what you mean, I share the need to clean the ego or clean the spirit of the physical ego. Like It can get bad to where I keep bottling my emotions up and as much as I know I need to and I wish I could just.. let it all out and cry, let go and forget about all the negativity bottled up do you know what i'm saying? Is this kind of what you mean?

DXM kind of has a middle ground, it's deffinately not an ego drug atleast rarely, dxm always gave me the best most euphoric trips but at the same time didn't get anywhere near my ego.

Psychedelics are deff A better way to go it's just harder to build up the courage sometimes in some cases, actually only when it comes to LSA in Hawwiian babywoodrose seeds, such a nice psychedelic would think it would be perfect for that, but building up the courage to eat those seeds...

MDAI helped semi-clean me out, but in reading and writing this post, I'm challenging myself to eat those seeds
To some extent yes, but to a greater extent, no something a bit more extreme, my friend is looking to quite completely tear down the ego to the breaking point of sanity, to reach a psychotic break and to allow the entire ordeal to come to a natural end with the help of friends/trip sitters to a positive end, it is not something just anyone should go doing as it could very, very easily go the wrong way, but my friend is to a point where he feels ready to face that in a controlled environment.


I do agree that psychedelics would be a much better candidate for this experience but dissociatives seem like the next best thing when psychedelics aren't really easily available affordable or obtainable, and given the distinction my friend would much rather go at this with some 5-meo-dmt, but that is far beyond his ability to ever obtain, let alone something not even as extreme though still profound like salvia or peyote, so he makes due with what he can muster up and makes sure that he's prepared for what he's facing himself up against. I'd like to note that 5-meo-dmt is an intense substance and shouldn't be attempted by someone who isn't very experienced with psychedelics.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 11-04-2012 at 18:44. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #19  
Old 09-04-2012, 13:13
Kamuix Kamuix is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

[QUOTE=Zhekarius;1115635]To some extent yes, but to a greater extent, no something a bit more extreme, my friend is looking to quite completely tear down the ego to the breaking point of sanity, to reach a psychotic break and to allow the entire ordeal to come to a natural end with the help of friends/trip sitters to a positive end, it is not something just anyone should go doing as it could very, very easily go the wrong way, but my friend is to a point where he feels ready to face that in a controlled environment.[/QUOTE]

Ahh ok and actually as I was reading your reply I thought back to my accidental sigma trip last summer where I recklessly poored DXM powder into a cup thinking I poored about 500MGS, turned out I poored over 1400mgs, Biggest dose i've ever done and I landed on Sigma where I was up all night, I felt like i entered another dimention seriously, the most erie emotional dxm experiance i've ever had, thought I was communicating with spirates and some really weird things happened that night that i'll never forget, not to mention thinking I was about to die and cross over to the spiratual world many times while saying to myself "i'm not ready yet, I don't want to die... i'm not ready yet.. Seems like a really tramatic experiance right? and it was to an extent, but not really.. because I swear when you're on dxm in high doses over 50% of you doesn't care if you were to die. So based on what happened it should have may more tramatic but on DXM you just.. don't fear death for the most part. I don't know the dxm experiance alone i don't think could do it to the extent that youre talking about
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Old 09-04-2012, 14:06
Zhekarius Zhekarius is offline
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Re: Is dxm the way to go if a total ego anihilation is desired?

I wouldn't really recommend anyone for any reason even consider recreating the situation my friend is attempting, it is something that took him a great deal of consideration and a life of extreme and difficult situations to even get him to that point of feeling ready, there are some experiences that just are too much for anyone to consider under normal circumstances, and this is probably one of them, sigma from all accounts seems like a head long plunge into temporary insanity, and could go wrong in so many many ways, I certainly wouldn't let my friend make the attempts if I wasn't confident he was taking the proper safety precautions as well as felt he was mentally prepared to deal with what had occurred once he came back to us in this realm from that madness.


Another thing that factors into my friend's reactions to some less recommended types of drug experiences is probably in large due to his somewhat unique brain chemistry compared to that of an average person, my friend has a fairly complex set of comorbid psychological disorders both enviromental and genetic, and has spent most of his life in therapy and on medications that often were changed to try to find something that would work better, this is to say that the medications a good two decades later are still not on the mark, though all the therapy, personal experiences and introspective searching of his persona and ego, his conscious has allowed him to make slow but ever steady steps forward in his progression to a stable norm, and he's been closer than ever to that as of most recently, finding himself much more stable for much longer periods of time and finding himself much better able to cope with the depressive cycles and maintain normal functioning in his life. This combination of ailments most certainly have some effect on the way my friend reacts to substances and even non substance stimulants such as sensory deprivation to some degree, and while I am in no means any expert on neuroscience I'm sure it's no coincidence that some of these experiences while potentially risky in nature yielded positive results ultimately for my friend.

A couple things have changed in regards to the AM-2201, I've made posts in regards to it in the AM-2201 forum and updated the trip report I posted for my friend in the dxm forum, be sure to check if this is something that interests you.

Last edited by Zhekarius; 11-04-2012 at 10:21. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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