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  #1  
Old 04-04-2012, 18:15
Dankfish Dankfish is offline
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How severely does kratom effect motor function?

SWIM is currently an alcoholic of sorts. He drinks every day to the point where he is unable to play guitar and sing, his primary hobby. This usually ends up at around 10-15 drinks throughout the course of the day/night.

Being sober is not really an option. Please don't bring this up in the thread, because SWIM already realizes that this is very foolish.

SWIM is looking to replace alcohol with kratom, mainly so he can be intoxicated, but not lose motor control. Along with this, he feels it may be efficient in kicking alcoholism.

What are SWIYs experience with motor function when heavily dosed on kratom? Are you still able to complete complex physical tasks such as playing an instrument? SWIM has never tried kratom before but is heavily considering ordering some to experiment with. Any shared experiences or advice is greatly appreciated.
  #2  
Old 04-04-2012, 18:23
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

How do you know you will even enjoy kratom, and you are planning on replacing alcohol with it?

Like any drug the dose will determine how messed up you are.

Kratom is addictive, so realise if you plan to abuse it you will end up addicted to it. This will require you to start taking more and with that come more side effects.
  #3  
Old 04-04-2012, 18:50
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianzombie View Post
How do you know you will even enjoy kratom, and you are planning on replacing alcohol with it?

Like any drug the dose will determine how messed up you are.

Kratom is addictive, so realise if you plan to abuse it you will end up addicted to it. This will require you to start taking more and with that come more side effects.
While that is true, I really do think this is the lesser of two evils. Kratom is addictive and he probably will replace his addiction to kratom but kratom really isn't a poison like alcohol is becoming to him. I take 16g a day sometimes and I am able to play guitar, sing, read, walk, write, read and even driving is possible (I know this is an extreme no-no but I'm just saying that it's definitely possible and I dont feel very impaired, I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT!)

I would say try it out and see if you like it. Kratom withdrawal will never kill you but alcohol withdrawal can so for reasons such as that I think making the move to kratom may improve your quality of life.

Stay away from extracts though, everyone will back me up here I think. It will kick your tolerance way high and kratom may lose it's fun value.

I've also read on erowid that there have been several people that use kratom to kick alcohol. They're now addicted to kratom but it's much easier to function as a kratom addict in my opinion.
  #4  
Old 04-04-2012, 19:02
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

I personally was, while addicted to kratom, unable to sleep on it without first drinking a large amount of alcohol.

If the person who switched to kratom was an alcoholic and then ran into the same problem it is possible they could return to alcohol to get to sleep and then they have two concurrant addictions to contend with.

While Kratom is the less dangerous of the two by a mile, i personally would not recomend it as a long term replacement, which i gather is what the OP is after.

If the OP felt they could use it to quit alcohol and then quit kratom, or eventually adress what it is that makes them feel the need to medicate themselves then that would be a better solution.

@Dankfish, while i know you dont want people telling you how bad abusing drugs is, part of the ethos of this site is harm reduction and im sure you realise that you will eventually have to face up to your addictions. I would recomend you talk to a therapist, it certainly helped me with some issues i had.
Im sure youwould much prefare being able to have a healthy relationship with these substances.

Listen to what Fenix says about avoiding extracts, and enhanced products. If you try kratom then buy powdered leaf from a vendor that sells nothing but kratom. Avoid headshops and the like.

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Great, Solid, HR Advice! And the possibility of returning to alcohol to get some sleep is very real.
  #5  
Old 04-04-2012, 19:17
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

I don't think that will be a problem for too long, the trouble sleeping. Just beasuse of kratom's opiate like action can really knock someone out with the correct dosage. And if you're like me then almost any dosage within reason will really have quite the narcotic effect once the stimulant effect wears on.

I would say you should find a vendor (I can name several but since it's not allowed I won't be able to) and then purchase a few ounces and try it out then report back and let us know how it goes for you.
  #6  
Old 04-04-2012, 19:22
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

For too long?

The problem sleeping was the worst part for me.
It was never a problem when i started using Kratom, in fact i used to sleep like a baby on it.
But after you have been using for a while it is very common to run into sleeping difficulties.
I could not sleep without alcohol or sleeping tablets.

Have a read through some of the threads here, a lot of people mention it.
  #7  
Old 04-04-2012, 19:31
Dankfish Dankfish is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

I understand that replacing one addiction with another is definitely not the wisest decision. The thing is, this alcohol relationship is tormenting the hobbies that make me feel like a worthwhile human being and I need an immediate replacement.

@FenixDelta: Do you find that you are doing these intense motor functioning skills at a similar level as to when you are sober?
  #8  
Old 04-04-2012, 21:33
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Ian, This is news to me. After reading all about kratom for about a year on here, I have never heard of that. I figured it was never an issue because I can always sleep very very nicely on it.

Dank, it depends at what level the effects are when you try to do something. For example, doing things during the stimulated and speedy stage is amazing and I feel extremely coordinated and like I can get things done faster and better. However, when the nod hits me... forget it. I can barely keep my head up, hence, its called the nod. But that tapers off and I can type this message just fine and think just as fast as when I'm sober. The way to make it less noddy and less of a narcotic effect is just to take less when you dose.
  #9  
Old 04-04-2012, 22:20
Dankfish Dankfish is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Ah, very good to know. Seems like a pretty desirable drug then. Have a stage when you can burn through your activities with ease, and reward yourself later, with a warm, fuzzy nod.

I think I will order some. Fenix, you should check the PM I sent you. If you are unable to help, it's completely understandable.
  #10  
Old 04-04-2012, 23:03
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

(haven't gotten a PM yet mate )

Take it easy with it though, make sure you read plenty about it on here and maybe on sites like erowid too. Just so you can get the dosage as well as finding what ROA you want to take.
  #11  
Old 04-04-2012, 23:19
rawbeer rawbeer is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

I think Ianzombie and Fenix have done a good job describing the effects and dangers of Kratom, so I won't add anything there. However I love to play guitar and sing and from my experience kratom greatly enhances the pleasure I get from these activities. I actually feel it improves my vocal performance - it somehow relaxes me to the point that I don't have to focus so much on being in key. I can put a lot more nuance in my singing. I don't think it improves my guitar playing per se but it certainly makes it more enjoyable.

The only other drug that compares with music performance enhancement, for me, is cannabis, but cannabis is quite different. It's a great drug for practicing, exploring, jamming...kratom is an excellent drug for preforming. It relaxes inhibitions like alcohol but at the right dose won't harm your ability to play precisely.

Please consider the dangers of kratom, it's a serious drug. However if you are as desperate as you say it may be helpful, at the very least it may just help you drink less. Ianzombie is probably the resident kratom expert here at DF so I would listen to him. Kratom can be a real wonder-drug if used responsibly.
  #12  
Old 05-04-2012, 16:05
Dankfish Dankfish is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Oh, I apparently can't send PMs yet. It was a vendor question, can you send those over PMs or is that against the TOS?

@rawbeer Thank you for that, you've described exactly what I'm looking for with the whole performance thing. Also, I am not positive, but I feel that if I was consuming kratom, a large urge for me wanting to be drinking would dissipate.
  #13  
Old 05-04-2012, 16:24
Mersann Mersann is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Vendor discussion is strictly forbidden, in PMs as well as elsewhere on the forum, except for the Sources Forum only Gold Members and up have access to.
  #14  
Old 05-04-2012, 16:59
Dankfish Dankfish is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Alright, I'll probably just go for one then. Thanks
  #15  
Old 06-04-2012, 16:50
DiabolicScheme DiabolicScheme is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Ive taken some seriously large doses (up to ~25 grams or 3 1/2 spoonfuls) and have never been really dumbed down stupid like alcohol can make you. The biggest effect for me is like a delay in vision or "shaky vision" from too high of a dose. In fact overall I feel more physically capable with kratom (esp. in the beginning with non-frequent use) its great for energy boosts that don't make you feel wired like caffeine.

I've found that kratom has a ceiling effect in the sense that you can only take so much before you get nauseous and vomit, tolerance doesn't seem to effect this limit either like it does with alcohol.

I personally think you'll need some detox for alcohol before you can make the switch cause it sounds like you've been drinking enough to be physically addicted and you can potentially die if you quit cold turkey to switch to kratom.

Another issue I'm concerned about is that kratom can be improved with alcohol, so instead of being addicted to just alcohol you may get addicted to doing both instead, which is an expensive habit to be getting into.

As far as the sleep problems I usually only have problems 48hrs + after withdrawal, in fact shortly after withdrawal I sleep like a baby because of the energy drain withdrawals give initially.

Bottomline is I personally don't see kratom as a very good replacement for alcohol because they are two totally different beasts. Kratom seems to work on mu-opioid receptors and probably dopamine (just a guess because of the mental stimulation it can provide), while alcohol works with gaba receptors.

Last edited by DiabolicScheme; 06-04-2012 at 16:58.
  #16  
Old 07-04-2012, 15:59
Dankfish Dankfish is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Diabolic, thank you very much. That was an extremely helpful post that raised some awareness in me. I do realize that these two substances act on different receptors, but I think I am at the point where if I quit cold turkey on alcohol I will only have the milder symptoms: depression, nausea, a little shaky, and so forth. I'm not expecting the notorious DTs. I think what I actually am is not a full pledged alcoholic, but an escapist.

I don't know when I will be able to just get sober once and for all, but in the meantime kratom seems like a better candidate for cutting loose.
  #17  
Old 07-04-2012, 16:15
trdofbeingtrd trdofbeingtrd is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

I don't know if this has been said, but mixing alcohol and kratom CAN be deadly and IS dangerous. I say this because while the OP might want to switch from an alcohol addiction to a kratom addiction, kratom will not ease the withdrawals from alcohol. Either way, the OP has to taper down on alcohol in order to make the switch. This is where the incredible amount of danger comes in.

If you can't get your kratom once you make the switch, the withdrawals (as said above) will not kill you, but they SUCK with a capital fucking K. If an order does not come in on time or you simply cannot get it, then it sucks to be you (blunt, not uncaring words) for the time till you can "re-up" on kratom. With alcohol, even if you have to recycle cans, or ask for change you can get your "fix" and not die from alcohol withdrawals.

The alcohol for SURE is the more dangerous and deadly drug, so switching to kratom while having it's own downfalls is not so bad, especially compared to the former. I just have no clue how you will taper off alcohol, while switching to kratom safely. Again, some people can drink on kratom, but they are both CNS (central nervous system) depressants.

There was a DF member who passed away after taking alcohol, kratom, and codeine. While codeine for sure had a huge impact in the mixing, kratom kind of potentiates (isn't always a good thing) other CNS depressants.

I would say if you are doing this by yourself, don't try it, if you are going to ask for help and get help along the way so that it's done safely, go for it.

Sorry if anything I said was already said above (and I didn't mention it).
  #18  
Old 07-04-2012, 18:25
Dankfish Dankfish is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

First of, tremendous appreciation for that post. I am definitely not planning on mixing the two substances. As I said, I do not foresee my withdrawals being life threatening at all. Around half a month ago I went 2 days without consuming any alcohol and mainly had night sweats, depression/fatigue, and restlessness. I feel like kratom could definitely ease these symptoms, maybe minus night sweats.
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Old 07-04-2012, 18:26
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dankfish View Post
SWIM is currently an alcoholic of sorts. He drinks every day to the point where he is unable to play guitar and sing, his primary hobby. This usually ends up at around 10-15 drinks throughout the course of the day/night.

Being sober is not really an option. Please don't bring this up in the thread, because SWIM already realizes that this is very foolish.

SWIM is looking to replace alcohol with kratom, mainly so he can be intoxicated, but not lose motor control. Along with this, he feels it may be efficient in kicking alcoholism.

What are SWIYs experience with motor function when heavily dosed on kratom? Are you still able to complete complex physical tasks such as playing an instrument? SWIM has never tried kratom before but is heavily considering ordering some to experiment with. Any shared experiences or advice is greatly appreciated.
SWIM finds that on a high dose of Kratom (10g +) there is some pretty intense loss of motor control similar to being drunk, like crashing into things if SWIM isn't careful, and vision gets quite messed up when walking around. It's still possible to do complex tasks though like writing a paper if SWIM sits still.

Also, SWIM has noticed that with tolerance loss of motor control and the other effects in general go away. If SWIY is planning on getting intoxicated on Kratom everyday you'll be very pleased... for about 2 weeks.

Undoubtedly SWIY would start mixing alcohol in with the Kratom too since Kratom lowers inhibitions.
  #20  
Old 08-04-2012, 06:50
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

10g for me won't do much as far as me losing coordination. hell, even up to 15g won't really do much as far as me losing any coordination. What will do it is if I overdose. Then i get the shaking and vibrating eyes, the dizziness and things like that. None the less I have been able to drive like this so it's nothing more than a visual disturbance. DONT TO THIS! IT IS INCREDIBLY STUPID.
  #21  
Old 08-04-2012, 09:15
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: How severely does kratom effect motor function?

Yes please do not drive while on kratom. Not only do you risk your life, and others lives but should you have an accident and kratom shows up in your system then you risk being directly responsible for any effect that might have on the continued legality of kratom where you live.

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