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  #26  
Old 27-03-2012, 05:20
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
Addiction is a behavior my friend and behavior can be controlled.
As to the second part, I will quote myself as a rebuttal:
if they're getting an addiction or dependency and don't even know what those two terms really mean... because they aren't experienced with drugs.. that's dangerous.
I was very controlled. I really was. You are underestimating how naive a lot of people truly are. I really was so health conscience just for fun. amphetamines are powerful. People don't understand that. You have control over the amphetamines and have since you first took your 10 mg with a glass of water at 7:31 a.m., and then again the next day at 7:31 a.m. Only because you are informed and you know exactly what you are dealing with. As a future pharmacists it is your responsibility to look out for people who have no clue what they are taking. I'm sorry they aren't teaching you to see it that way already, but maybe that is part of the problem with the prescription drug problem in our country.

I definitely take responsibility for myself, in fact I started out that way. But all you did was say.. oooh she abused... screw her. That's exactly what you did. That's not fair at all.
  #27  
Old 27-03-2012, 05:33
chrischerokee chrischerokee is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
if they're getting an addiction or dependency and don't even know what those two terms really mean... because they aren't experienced with drugs.. that's dangerous.
I was very controlled. I really was. You are underestimating how naive a lot of people truly are. I really was so health conscience just for fun. amphetamines are powerful. People don't understand that. You have control over the amphetamines and have since you first took your 10 mg with a glass of water at 7:31 a.m., and then again the next day at 7:31 a.m. Only because you are informed and you know exactly what you are dealing with. As a future pharmacists it is your responsibility to look out for people who have no clue what they are taking. I'm sorry they aren't teaching you to see it that way already, but maybe that is part of the problem with the prescription drug problem in our country.
I never said you didn't have a psychological dependence for this drug, which you stated you had. However, some people have a psychological dependence on porn, shopping, eating as a hobby, etc. These are behaviors which become part of a person's daily habits, just like adderall, in which they feel the "need" to fulfill these tasks. Having said that do you think that each person lacks the power to stop watching porn, stop shopping, or stop feasting on copious amounts of food that leads to obesity? A person does have the will power to stop and can stop if they wanted to. The weaker their mindset is, the less likely they are to stop. But realize that people do stop these needs using their own will power. And I spoke of no offense to you or anyone here. You aired out your business all on your own.
  #28  
Old 27-03-2012, 05:50
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepin Fetchit View Post
It's ok to take amdrugmas it's prescribed and feel better but that doesn't make young drug addict. Sometimes relationships don't work out, but blaming the drug doesn't make any sense to me, especially since everything else in your life seemed to be going very well.
I appreciate your posts. I'm not mad at you. But, I could thank Adderall for allowing me to get straight A's. It did increase my quality of life. But, it makes me argue and this thread is a good example of what adderall makes me do. It's like I'm bold, brave, aggressive, assertive. I can't tell you how opposite of that I am. Adderall is a psychotropic drug so it changes my personality. And yes, you are right when you say someone told me in the beginning that it was having a bad effect on me. A therapist I used to see (and I don't want to go to one again) said that she would stay away from the meds.. and that it was a psychotropic drug and confirmed that it changed my personality when I asked her. I told her I was having trouble remembering to text people during the day because I just didn't care as much. She asked me to find those feelings. That is still almost impossible for me to do. I'm normally a pretty genuine person.. but on adderall I feel like I can't help but be very self absorbed and defensive.

Megan288 added 2 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

I can also just do my work and not talk to people and be quiet.. but people always talk to me so it's not an option to just smile and keep working all day. I eventually have to open my mouth and all this crazy adderall talk comes out which includes almost no empathy. I hate when someone seems upset after they've talked to me because I know it's probably the way I am on adderall, selfish and probably lacking empathy like I have without it.

Megan288 added 8 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
I never said you didn't have a psychological dependence for this drug, which you stated you had. However, some people have a psychological dependence on porn, shopping, eating as a hobby, etc. These are behaviors which become part of a person's daily habits, just like adderall, in which they feel the "need" to fulfill these tasks. Having said that do you think that each person lacks the power to stop watching porn, stop shopping, or stop feasting on copious amounts of food that leads to obesity? A person does have the will power to stop and can stop if they wanted to. The weaker their mindset is, the less likely they are to stop. But realize that people do stop these needs using their own will power. And I spoke of no offense to you or anyone here. You aired out your business all on your own.
nevermind. I don't have an addictive personality. I do have a dependency on adderall. I used to do a lot on my own out of willpower and motivation. Now I need adderall to do a lot of what I used to do on my own. I haven't decided if this is a huge problem or not, yet, because I keep coming across different viewpoints. My dr.'s aware of all the things I'm experiencing. He seems to think it's not a big deal. I like my dr. I'm not saying anything against him at all. He's a primary Care physician and is calm and level headed about everything.

Megan288 added 1 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
The weaker their mindset is, the less likely they are to stop.
if you're experiencing psychosis side effects and developing a dependency without knowing either of those things are happening than that's a tripple threat from adderall. Things are out of control at that point. I'm not saying that happened to me, but I have heard of that happening. That kind of thing happens.

Last edited by Megan288; 27-03-2012 at 05:58. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #29  
Old 27-03-2012, 06:36
chrischerokee chrischerokee is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by no eff eks View Post
chris my friend... your certainty makes me want to simply ignore you... Still since we're here and all....

Adderall is d/l-amphetamine... speed. The drug is a potent releasing agent for dopamine, as well as a re-uptake inhibitor for dopamine. This is not the only neurotransmitter amphetamine acts on, but it is the most relevant since we're talking about addiction.

Your brain needs dopamine to function normally. It is important in experiencing pleasure and motivation to be active. When you take amphetamine for a long time your brain stops making as much dopamine... the same thing happens to people taking SSRI's except they experience serotonin depletion if they suddenly quit. It's no fun, nor is dopamine depletion.

Now this new lower level of dopamine has your brain needing more amphetamine to stay normal. You don't get to control your brains reward mechanism consciously - it's taken care of by our friend dopamine. That's the neurotransmitter that you've been screwing with on a daily basis... and you're expecting to have the self control and self awareness to avoid addictive behaviors? How will you know if you don't?
I understand what you're inferring to. Where are you getting your sources from? And what study was conducted showing that the long term use of amphetamines leads to a depletion of dopamine levels, a chemical which occurs naturally in the brain? My understanding was that the injection of higher doses of amphetamines (50-100mg) simultaneously led to a long term effect where the dopamine level was depleted, but only because an extreme over stimulation of amphetamine was injected all at one time causing permanent psychosis. I would have to agree with you if SWIM injected 50-100 mg simultaneously causing an irreversible over-stimulation. Other than lab rat experiments, in which they injected the rats with 50-100 mg of amphetamine multiple times to produce these effects, can you come up with proves that this actually occurs because of the long term use of amphetamines in a person, whose only taken their prescribed dosage, in swims case 10 mg IR twice a day. A person has the potential to do that only if they take an abundant amount of amphetamine orally, such as 500 mg, allowing too much of the drug to cross the blood brain barrier causing permanent damage to dopamine levels. When taking 10 mg once a day, sometimes twice if needed, doesn't allow the drug to cross the blood brain barrier so easily. That is why the drug doesn't have a lasting effect or permanent "high" because it gets metabolized out of your system.

Last edited by chrischerokee; 27-03-2012 at 08:19.
  #30  
Old 27-03-2012, 08:53
Stepin Fetchit Stepin Fetchit is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by no eff eks View Post
chris..... Long term use of amphetamine causes addiction, whether you are taking it as prescribed or not. Read that again if you have to because it's important. That's the reality of this and any other drug that floods your synapses with dopamine. Over time you will become an addict.

I can honestly say I understand the chemistry of drugs like adderall as well as being all too familiar with the abuse perspective... That perspective makes me cringe when I see somebody suggesting a seemingly severely depressed individual like OP turn to speed as a solution. You'll understand at some point I'm sure...
Not all amphetamines "flood" your synapses with dopamine (actually, the synapses are just the mechanism by which dopamine is released). Adderall,causes more dopamine and serotonin to be released, but saying that it "floods" the CNS is inaccurate.

Stepin Fetchit added 5 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
I never said you didn't have a psychological dependence for this drug, which you stated you had. However, some people have a psychological dependence on porn, shopping, eating as a hobby, etc. These are behaviors which become part of a person's daily habits, just like adderall, in which they feel the "need" to fulfill these tasks. Having said that do you think that each person lacks the power to stop watching porn, stop shopping, or stop feasting on copious amounts of food that leads to obesity? A person does have the will power to stop and can stop if they wanted to. The weaker their mindset is, the less likely they are to stop. But realize that people do stop these needs using their own will power. And I spoke of no offense to you or anyone here. You aired out your business all on your own.
People can be psychologically addicted to anything. Megan is intelligent, but doesn't quite understand the intricacies of drug addiction and drug dependence. She seems to lump all drug use, dependent, recreational, abuse, misuse, therapeutic, into the same category.

Someone with diabetes is dependent upon their medication, but the medication helps them. I believe that Adderall was helping Megan, and I don't think that her health was adversely affected at all.

Last edited by Stepin Fetchit; 27-03-2012 at 08:53. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #31  
Old 27-03-2012, 09:46
Stepin Fetchit Stepin Fetchit is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

If anyone agrees with her statement about "people who don't know how to handle it, knowing absolutely nothing about drugs in the first place", should rethink their viewpoint on drugs. I thought this statement would be common sense to most people because what it's implying is if you ever find a pill on the floor and have no idea what it is, who care's just take it. If you don't know how to handle a drug, and know absolutely nothing about that drug, then YOU SHOULD NOT BE TAKING THIS DRUG.[/QUOTE]

I actually don't think it's a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with her point, because it could mean anything. It could mean don't let people who cant read or have disabilities take drugs. I would ask her what she believes people need to know, because pharmacists and doctors DO tell patients about the prescriptions that they are taking. You don't have to know the chemical composition of every drug you take and how it affects your brain and body to take a drug. If that were true, only smart people could get prescriptions.

Laws, including prescription drug laws, have to assume that a person will act reasonably and in heir own best interest. Adderall is dangerous if abused, yes, but it doesn't have to be abused. Common sense also dictates that if a drug is causing adverse side effects that are affecting you in a bad way, then you should stop taking it. Doctors tell you that, the warnings on the information sheet from the pharmacy tells you that, and even the commercials on tv tell you that.

Stepin Fetchit added 7 Minutes and 12 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDDQD View Post
"If you are going to do what you want anyway, then why even ask?"

I haven't taken any action. I will do what I want, but I haven't decided what that is yet. I see too many arguments from both sides of the fence in my own mind. I believe it is best that I talk to my psychiatrist, who is quite a level headed guy, and see what his take on my predicament and current outlook on life is. Yes, it was not that productive for me to ask on a forum. At least it looks like some interesting discussion has been generated, so the thread is not a complete waste.

I thank everyone for giving their opinions.

Cheers!
Yeah, but not getting through to you is a little frustrating. Hopefully your psychiatrist will be able to get to the central issue that is bothering you, because it doesnt make sense to me that a student who is excelling at a top school to the extent that he refers to undergrad as a "joke" (um, yeah right) is so unmotivated about doing self-paced academic research, something that he should be excited about, that he wants to take a drug that he knows could harm him so that he will be motivated. It's not adding up.

Stepin Fetchit added 7 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
The above statement could be related to depression, which could be the reason you exhibit such behaviors.
I agree Adderall doesn't make you mad. And again, why didnt she stop taking it if it did?

Megan has described so many situations and behaviors that lead me to believe that she is experiencing depression. There is almost no doubt in my mind.

Stepin Fetchit added 22 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by no eff eks View Post
chris my friend... your certainty makes me want to simply ignore you... Still since we're here and all....

Adderall is d/l-amphetamine... speed. The drug is a potent releasing agent for dopamine, as well as a re-uptake inhibitor for dopamine. This is not the only neurotransmitter amphetamine acts on, but it is the most relevant since we're talking about addiction.

Your brain needs dopamine to function normally. It is important in experiencing pleasure and motivation to be active. When you take amphetamine for a long time your brain stops making as much dopamine... the same thing happens to people taking SSRI's except they experience serotonin depletion if they suddenly quit. It's no fun, nor is dopamine depletion.

Now this new lower level of dopamine has your brain needing more amphetamine to stay normal. You don't get to control your brains reward mechanism consciously - it's taken care of by our friend dopamine. That's the neurotransmitter that you've been screwing with on a daily basis... and you're expecting to have the self control and self awareness to avoid addictive behaviors? How will you know if you don't?
You're just wrong. I'll ignore the rhetoric that you use to exaggerate the dangers of Adderall, such as calling it a "potent" releasing agent, and focus on the many incorrect statements.

Your brain doesn't stop making as much dopamine when you use, or even abuse, amphetamines. The brain doesn't even make dopamine, your body does. Even id amphetamines are abused and dopamine is depleted, your body still makes the same amount.

There isn't a "lower level" of dopamine released when you take a medical dose of amphetamines, because the dose is so small. Also, the medically prescribed dose of amphetamines does not interfere with the reuptake of dopamine. Long term ABUSE of amphetamines may cause some receptors to shut down, resulting in lower levels of dopamine being released.

But when you take Adderall as prescribed, you stop feeling pleasure from the drug's effects, and you simply feel normal. That's what it's supposed to do. You aren't supposed to be feeling pleasure every time you take it. People that ABUSE it are seeking that pleasure, and end up having to take more and more to feel high, but the only thing causing them to do that is their own bad behavior.

Also, your focus is in dopamine, but actually serotonin plays a key role, arguably the most important role, in the medical benefits of amphetamines, but you just ignore that contribution. Seratonin is what gives people a sense of well being, and if anything is causing someone to feel motivated and active, it's serotonin.

Stepin Fetchit added 5 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I wasn't talking to you stephin, I was talking to chris up there.

Megan288 added 1 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

I'm always mad on adderall, and irritated. And I rub off on people and make them feel bad and that reaally upsets me. ESPECIALLY when I haven't taken my adderall.

Megan288 added 4 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

well... I didn't graduate at the top of my class. I took on too many things at once. I had a bf who I was suspicious of. I think he wanted me to fail out. HE may have been a narcissist which is the only reason I know what that term even means. I didn't fail out but I stopped going to classes. I could have gone back but I was man down all summer after being on adderall for three years, breaking up with my bf who called me every day and I had to ignore it, and not being in classes anymore. I just took up a job as a kindergarten teachers aide, which I love. I still don't feel grown up or responsible as I should be. I have had some weird setbacks.

Megan288 added 1 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

but now I cut and glue paper with kids all day instead of taking economics classes and making a's. It's just so much. hindsight is 20/20
It sounds like you quit going because the issues with your boyfriend, coupled with depression, overwhelmed you, and may have triggered other issues. This is the first time you said that Adderall made you mad at everyone, but you actually said something quite different in an earlier post. And was it Adderall that made you mad, or when you didn't take Adderall, because you sort of blamed both.

Last edited by Stepin Fetchit; 27-03-2012 at 09:46. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #32  
Old 27-03-2012, 19:40
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Really? where??
Clearly I don't have the time to keep up with this thread as it has continued pages beyond this post, and you didn't really specify which features of a study you want, but here, if you really want to read these, or certain ones of these, and can't find a freely available copy, I'm sure someone would help you out in the thread to request articles from people with access to medline:

Biederman, J., Spencer, T., Wilens, T., Weisler, R., Read, S., Tulloch, S., & others. (2005). Long-term safety and effectiveness of mixed amphetamine salts extended release in adults with ADHD. CNS spectrums, 10(12 Suppl 20), 16.

Biederman, Joseph, Monuteaux, M. C., Spencer, T., Wilens, T. E., & Faraone, S. V. (2009). Do Stimulants Protect Against Psychiatric Disorders in Youth With ADHD? A 10-Year Follow-up Study. Pediatrics, 124(1), 71–78. doi:10.1542/peds.2008-3347

Vitiello, B. (2001). Long-term effects of stimulant medications on the brain: possible relevance to the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Journal of Child and Adolescent Psychopharmacology, 11(1), 25–34.

Dodson, W. W. (2005). Pharmacotherapy of adult ADHD. Journal of clinical psychology, 61(5), 589–606.

Lerner, M., & Wigal, T. (2008). Long-term safety of stimulant medications used to treat children with ADHD. Psychiatric Annals, 38(1), 43.

Mészáros, A., Czobor, P., Bálint, S., Komlósi, S., Simon, V., & Bitter, I. (2009). Pharmacotherapy of adult attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD): a meta-analysis. The International Journal of Neuropsychopharmacology, 12(08), 1137–1147.

Rostain, A. L., & Ramsay, J. R. (2006). A combined treatment approach for adults with ADHD—results of an open study of 43 patients. Journal of attention disorders, 10(2), 150–159.

Wilens, T. E., Spencer, T. J., & Biederman, J. (2001). A review of the pharmacotherapy of adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Journal of Attention Disorders, 5(4), 189–202.

Poulton, A. (2006). Long-term outcomes of stimulant medication in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. Expert review of neurotherapeutics, 6(4), 551–561.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Why aren't they on the side effects list?
The information sheet for patients specifically states that it is not an exhaustive list of the potential side effects and directs you on how to find out more information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
All they mention referring to long term is "chronic use" I've looked for long term studies and have not found any.
Perhaps you are using the wrong search terms, nothing I found was on any other topic than therapeutic use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Are they from legitimate sources?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Two years is better than 3-4 weeks but I don't think I'd call that long term really..
Some of the pediatric studies spanned 10 years, but still, whether or not you'd call two years long-term seems immaterial; do you have any objective data to suggest that two years is insufficient in assessing the long-term effects of amphetamine-based medications?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I've reported them to my dr. I think you can't report side effects after a month of stopping use. Which I've stopped and started a few times in the last few years.
Why would you think that? That would be a ridiculous rule (and for clarity, it is fictitious).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I would never sue my dr. He has a lot to do and so many drugs to administer to all kinds of different patients.
Oh, I didn't realize your doctor was too busy to be held accountable for mistreating a patient, you think keeping him busy with other patients is really a good idea? Personally, I doubt your doctor really did anything wrong, given how dubious your claims have been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
The pharmaceutical companies know that they should give the information to the dr's so they can prevent problems. They don't want people to see warnings. The FDA makes them put all their warnings on their and they do it reluctantly and fight to have them taken down.
The pharmaceutical companies have no say, they can't fight to take them down, the only recent issue even closely related to this that I can think of is the case where a side effect is discovered for a generic formulation, the issue being: should the innovator have to update their own list of side effects, since there really isn't evidence that it occurs with their formulation? I do not remember the outcome of that.

The FDA also requires that this information be given to the consumer at least when the medication is dispensed, but it is common practice for the doctor to also give the patient (usually more comprehensive) information on the medication before first prescribing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Or they should just not give their controlled II, strong, drugs to PCP's to prescribe. Someone should see a specialist before they start taking adderall. It's a huge decision they need to be informed about.
Each physician has to apply for a DEA number and in that form they have to request permission to prescribe each specific schedule, so really you should take that up with the DEA, I guess. In any case, the patient's financial (read, healthcare) situation must also be taken into consideration. Regardless, this doesn't even apply to the OP, he stated that he has talked to a psychiatrist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Lucky gal, I know some people who have been medicated since they were kids and they don't have issues and have been productive. I'm sure their parents monitored closely to make sure everything went smoothly.
She started Adderall as an adult living away from home. Its lack of negative effects in her case cannot be attributed to her parents' careful monitoring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
They have to report all private funding... what good does that do? That just explains why 70% of research you read on ADHD has Funded by Shire written underneath it.
There is much more research out there than what is funded by Shire--consider their competitors, for example. This only convinces me that you are indeed doing something wrong when trying to locate relevant research papers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I'd like to read more about this. Still, for the majority of drs in the us, pharmaceutical companies are all over their practice.. their research... Might not be what people want to read but it's so true.
When prescribing their product, of course you're going to get the manufacturer's safety information, that's an enforcement and has nothing to do with pharmaceutical marketing affecting prescribing practices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I 100% agree. If they aren't going to make it easy for dr.'s to give correct information to first time adderall patients (which would be easy to do with one formal piece of paper from the companies for every first time patient.. which is what is recommended but not required..) they shouldn't give their medicine or send their reps into all of the dr's offices. The pharmaceutical companies need to ship everything out with a warning for all of the people that will be taking their drugs. Instead of making each individual primary care physician or clinical nurse try to interpret how adderall is supposed to work.
The pharmaceutical companies do in fact provide prescribing information to medical doctors, and, again, patient safety information is required at least upon dispensing the medication--before the patient has taken Adderall for the first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
New or worsening mental problems, does not mean someone had something wrong with them in the first place.
This is still quite controversial, but the majority of studies have not been able to substantiate this and conclude the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepin Fetchit View Post
Also, your focus is in dopamine, but actually serotonin plays a key role, arguably the most important role, in the medical benefits of amphetamines, but you just ignore that contribution. Seratonin is what gives people a sense of well being, and if anything is causing someone to feel motivated and active, it's serotonin.
While your understanding of the effects of amphetamines on dopaminergic nerves has slight inaccuracies or require elaboration, this bit is just flat-out false. Some ADHD medications have little or no affinity for serotonin and still show efficacy. Furthermore, dopaminergic activity along the mesocortical and especially mesolimbic pathways has been well known to play a critical role in motivation, as per the dopamine hypothesis of incentive motivation. Dopaminergic activity along the nigrostriatal pathway is very well known for the effects of 'reward', or euphoria and the sense of wellbeing, as per the dopamine hypothesis of reward.
  #33  
Old 27-03-2012, 20:31
chrischerokee chrischerokee is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by no eff eks View Post
chris my friend... your certainty makes me want to simply ignore you... Still since we're here and all....

Adderall is d/l-amphetamine... speed. The drug is a potent releasing agent for dopamine, as well as a re-uptake inhibitor for dopamine. This is not the only neurotransmitter amphetamine acts on, but it is the most relevant since we're talking about addiction.
The CNS stimulants cocaine and amphetamine are believed to act primarily at catecholamine synapses. Cocaine blocks the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine, while amphetamines cause presynaptic terminals to release these transtmitters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by no eff eks View Post
Your brain needs dopamine to function normally. It is important in experiencing pleasure and motivation to be active. When you take amphetamine for a long time your brain stops making as much dopamine... the same thing happens to people taking SSRI's except they experience serotonin depletion if they suddenly quit. It's no fun, nor is dopamine depletion.
According to your statement long term use of adderall will induce parkinsonism in people because of the permanent depletion of dopamine. The only way this would be valid is if a person was to take an MAOI inhibitor along with the adderall.
MPTP is a protoxin that is converted by monoamine oxidase B to N-methyl-4-phenylpyridinium (MPP+). MPP+ is selectively taken up by cells in the substantia nigra through an active mechanism normally responsible for dopamine reuptake. MPP+ inhibits mitochondrial complex I, thereby inhibiting oxidative phosphorylation. The interaction of MPP+ with complex I probably leads to cell
death and thus to striatal dopamine depletion and parkinsonism." (Katzung PHARMACOLOGY, 9e > Section V. Drugs That Act in the Central Nervous System > Chapter 28. Pharmacologic Management of Parkinsonism & Other Movement Disorders)

In addition to this, dopamine is also found elsewhere in the body other than the brain, such as in the GI tract. Dopamine's role in the GI is to regulate sphincter and intragastric pressure. So if amphetamines were to cause permanent depletion of dopamine this would also apply to dopamine in the GI tract as it's interlinked with the CNS, meaning sphincter and gastric pressure would be completely out of control. This simply does not happen at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by no eff eks View Post
Now this new lower level of dopamine has your brain needing more amphetamine to stay normal. You don't get to control your brains reward mechanism consciously - it's taken care of by our friend dopamine. That's the neurotransmitter that you've been screwing with on a daily basis... and you're expecting to have the self control and self awareness to avoid addictive behaviors? How will you know if you don't?
This is why swim keeps a complete log of his dosage and a fixed-interval schedule to take this drug, one dose at 9:00 am and the other at 3:00 pm. Additionally swim also stops taking adderall once every 3 months for a duration lasting approximately 2 weeks. No noted effects or withdrawal behavior was noted. This log is then given to swims doctor who uses this data in his notes. Swim has 3 years of data logged regarding the use of adderall, and has always taken 10 mg IR only. No more than two doses maximum a day equalling a total of 20 mg, and a second dosage is only taken when needed, for instance if swim has school or homework to do.

I also forgot to mention that the effect amphetamine has on dopamine receptors is distinguished when the drug is metabolized out of your system. It's because of this reason that someone who decides to abuse the drug for a period of time and then stop experiences withdrawals. The withdrawal effect is from the dopamine levels in the brain being restored to its "natural" state, and the user isn't used to this because of the mechanism of the amphetamine amplified the release of such neurotransmitters. However, when the drug has been metabolized it's also expunged from your body. So as long as a person doesn't keep the drug constantly in their blood stream or keep the drug from fully completing it's metabolism, which you'd have to take adderall every few hours non stop, then there would be no long lasting effect on dopamine.

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good info on neurotransmitters affected different stimulants. very knowledgeable contribution.

Last edited by chrischerokee; 27-03-2012 at 23:43.
  #34  
Old 27-03-2012, 23:23
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

NOOO, where in the world is Stepin?

Thanks for the research articles, Staples. Last I heard dr's were expected to interpret medical studies on their own. They are also heavily influenced by pharmaceutical companies.

Chris, we must speak a different language.

No Eff Ex, I feel you on your posts about the science of addiction. I don't know why people argue with them. They were good and informative to me.

Megan288 added 10 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by staples View Post

The pharmaceutical companies do in fact provide prescribing information to medical doctors, and, again, patient safety information is required at least upon dispensing the medication--before the patient has taken Adderall for the first time.
I was agreeing with you. What changed? Why do you think people should go to a psychiatrist if now you say that a slip stapled to the pharmacy bag (that many don't look at) is enough for a controlled II substance with black box warnings?

Megan288 added 1 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

Nevermind. I don't think this online fight is going to end well. Everyone's facts are bias and Adderall is controversial, period.

Megan288 added 30 Minutes and 50 Seconds later...
Geeze I have the exact symptoms of depression. Hadn't looked at those in a while. Thanks for the clear insites. There's a void without you, stepin. NOT happy, just saying

edit: well yea, I guess the fact that I'm not happy is a given, haha.

Last edited by Megan288; 28-03-2012 at 02:05. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #35  
Old 27-03-2012, 23:29
staples Gold member staples is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Last I heard dr's were expected to interpret medical studies on their own. They are also heavily influenced by pharmaceutical companies.
? Technical writing isn't supposed to leave room for interpretation. One might identify flawed methodology (if not pointed out in the paper, explicitly, usually followed by a statement like 'more research in this area is necessary')...

And who else is going to do the initial studies on a novel medication? Still, it is peer-reviewed and must be accepted by the FDA before a doctor would need to consider it. This isn't even a real concern when discussing the influence of pharmaceutical companies on medical practice, so I'm not sure why you bring it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I was agreeing with you. What changed? Why do you think people should go to a psychiatrist if now you say that a slip stapled to the pharmacy bag (that many don't look at) is enough for a controlled II substance with black box warnings?
The patient is also required to sign that they have refused consultation from the pharmacist regarding the medication (or ask for consultation). This is not mutually exclusive with seeing a psychiatrist. Your complaint was that this information was not made available to the patient, was it not?
  #36  
Old 27-03-2012, 23:55
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by staples View Post
? Technical writing isn't supposed to leave room for interpretation. One might identify flawed methodology (if not pointed out in the paper, explicitly, usually followed by a statement like 'more research in this area is necessary')...

And who else is going to do the initial studies on a novel medication? Still, it is peer-reviewed and must be accepted by the FDA before a doctor would need to consider it. This isn't even a real concern when discussing the influence of pharmaceutical companies on medical practice, so I'm not sure why you bring it up.

The patient is also required to sign that they have refused consultation from the pharmacist regarding the medication (or ask for consultation). This is not mutually exclusive with seeing a psychiatrist. Your complaint was that this information was not made available to the patient, was it not?
Technical writing might be the problem. Dr's might not know how to transfer that knowledge into everyday language for patients. They have to go to the internet to find people who have had the exact same experiences as them. Then dr.'s in turn have no clue what their pt's are talking about.


I was just about to say. My writing can be interpreted in many ways. I haven't thought really hard about my statements. I'm not stupid or crazy as you seem to think, and if I made dubious claims, I was trying to tell people what really happened but was misinterpreted and denied in many ways. Which is a frustrating thing to do to people who have experienced adverse reactions to their medication for whatever reason. If you're trying to educate them, that's fine, but if you are telling them they didn't experience what they experienced, you're not treating someone like you should be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by staples View Post
The patient is also required to sign that they have refused consultation from the pharmacist regarding the medication (or ask for consultation)."
that's just a formality to everyone... I do that with a zpac and everything else I get when I drive through the pharmacy. I just know that I wasn't as informed as I should have been about Adderall. I don't think being uninformed about your medication before you decide to take the first pill is too terrible of a crime-- granted someone wasn't aware of how different adderall is than other pills. It's an ignorant, careless mistake by the patient. Keyword is ignorant. Dr.'s and companies should deal with the fact that this happens before it happens.

Last edited by Megan288; 28-03-2012 at 00:19.
  #37  
Old 27-03-2012, 23:57
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Thanks for the research articles, Staples. Last I heard dr's were expected to interpret medical studies on their own. They are also heavily influenced by pharmaceutical companies.

Chris, we must speak a different language.

No Eff Ex, I feel you on your posts about the science of addiction. I don't know why people argue with them. They were good and informative.

Nevermind. I don't think this online fight is going to end well. Everyone's facts are bias and Adderall is controversial, period.
I didn't mean to get technical but when someone else is refuting what I'm arguing with inaccurate technical information themselves and no sources to back them up then I must go to the extreme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staples View Post
? Technical writing isn't supposed to leave room for interpretation. One might identify flawed methodology (if not pointed out in the paper, explicitly, usually followed by a statement like 'more research in this area is necessary')...
This is another point I was making. I'm glad staples can see eye to eye with me. Everything I've told you isn't my opinion or biased in anyway. It's from sources that have provided these facts doing very little research. Aside from staples and myself, not one person has provided tangible evidence. The thing is Megan you continue to dispute facts and hard evidence. I mean't no offense to you at all, and was only refuting your flawed reasoning. I never once said that you or anyone else here wasn't actually having these experiences. But to blame what you've experienced solely on adderall is invalid.

Last edited by chrischerokee; 28-03-2012 at 00:18.
  #38  
Old 28-03-2012, 16:18
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

I was referring to things I read in good sources. I try not to read sources that aren't reputable so that I don't get my facts confused. I'm just telling you what is true for me.. and what I found in recent research that made it make sense to me. A lot of people don't know science. That's why youre studying it. I hope you dont judge and disagree with people bc that alone will block them from getting the help they desperately need. dont chose drugs over people

Megan288 added 14 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
But to blame what you've experienced solely on adderall is invalid.
Yes, I do get it now and thanks.

IDQD, I hope you found the information in some of the posts to you in the beginning. I'm glad they told you the effects adderall is and isn't supposed to have. I should have started my own thread... so annoyin, sorry!!

Megan288 added 924 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

Ok, leave me hanging a holes.

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Incredibly rude and arrogant to demand attention in this way. Everyone contributes to the forum voluntarily.

Last edited by Megan288; 28-03-2012 at 16:18. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #39  
Old 28-03-2012, 21:35
staples Gold member staples is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Ok, leave me hanging a holes.
Excuse me? Did you have any outstanding questions? I think it has been made clear that it is highly improbable that Adderall is solely to blame for your negative experience (which is what I was referring to as a dubious claim, by the way, I am not saying your negative experience itself is spurious).

Your proposed mechanism of miscommunication between doctors and patients is blatantly absurd and clearly a stretch. As if the doctor must perform an Internet search using terms that the patient used before arriving at an epiphany (e.g., "Hm, according to these experiences I've found on the Internet, that patient probably meant syncope when she said 'fainting'!"). If this really requires a rebuttal, look no farther than every single profession that exists. Engineers, lawyers, financial analysts, marketing directors, and so on all use technical terms that naturally will be dumbed-down to more lay terms or even metaphors when working with a client, and the client's use of lay terms to describe the desired work are substituted for formal technical terms when the professional performs any documentation meant for others of the same profession, or, when applicable, looking up more information, etc. A case in point from earlier in this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
The first thing you learn about being a pharmacist is how to communicate with people.
Finally, the ridiculousness of calling it a formality for pharmacies to have you sign something which legally absolves the pharmacist of the responsibility of providing consultation didn't really seem like it needed a response.

Personally, I think your last several posts explain a lot about your original statements in this thread: they are based on your own interpretation of documents that are meant to be clear, concise, and complete. It's a presentation of information, 'interpreting' it means you've elucidated meaning beyond what was provided (and thus the original writing couldn't have been understood as complete). You've done this, as you say, when 'it makes sense' to you. So when chrischerokee, myself, and others have tried to tell you that it would be nothing short of remarkable--a scientific anomaly--if your negative experience is completely attributable to the event of having taken Adderall, and that event alone, that clearly conflicted with your (mis)interpretation of (uncited) scientific works. Of course you'll maintain that we're wrong, but in the end we all want the same thing: we want to prevent the spread of unsubstantiated claims that could affect the course of others' treatments and promote valid information on the subject. Even if we are wrong in your particular case, there's no way of anyone (not even you) knowing for certain--your experience was not controlled, and characterized by a sample size of 1.

Giving your own experience is fine, but making ridiculous claims tends to be met with skepticism by other users who have enough knowledge on the subject to recognize the misrepresentation and (hopefully) challenge/correct it.

I think I've addressed any possibly lingering concerns. Next time you feel ignored, please try to express it in a more polite manner.
  #40  
Old 29-03-2012, 00:53
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Yes, I do get it now and thanks.

Staples? What part of that made you feel the need to reiterate everything you have said before? I know what you are, you're a selfish, douchebag, jerk. People will either leave relationships with you depressed or pissed off.


Go sue someone a hole.

Megan288 added 79 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
I didn't mean to get technical but when someone else is refuting what I'm arguing with inaccurate technical information themselves and no sources to back them up then I must go to the extreme.


This is another point I was making. I'm glad staples can see eye to eye with me. Everything I've told you isn't my opinion or biased in anyway. It's from sources that have provided these facts doing very little research. Aside from staples and myself, not one person has provided tangible evidence. The thing is Megan you continue to dispute facts and hard evidence. I mean't no offense to you at all, and was only refuting your flawed reasoning. I never once said that you or anyone else here wasn't actually having these experiences. But to blame what you've experienced solely on adderall is invalid.
This comes straight from the adderall side effects sheet. This blames adderall and adderall alone. You need to rethink your approach to my complaints about adderall. On top of this, quite a few adverse effects have been associated with adderall. So, I think your extremely bias opinion in favor of Adderall and against the people having the new problems since they started using Adderall is not helpful.

Emergence of New Psychotic or Manic Symptoms Treatment-emergent psychotic or manic symptoms, e.g., hallucinations, delusional thinking, or mania in children and adolescents without prior history of psychotic illness or mania can be caused by stimulants at usual doses. If such symptoms occur, consideration should be given to a possible causal role of the stimulant, and discontinuation of treatment may be appropriate. (Shire full prescribing information)

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aggressive flaming, take it somewhere else
This personal abusive attack is completely out of bounds, esp. as you have already highjacked the thread, and made
While you have every right to post, don't make personal attacks on other posters

Last edited by Megan288; 29-03-2012 at 00:53. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #41  
Old 29-03-2012, 01:51
staples Gold member staples is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Staples? What part of that made you feel the need to reiterate everything you have said before?
See the first quote in my previous post. It was ambiguous in what way you were 'left hanging'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I know what you are, you're a selfish, douchebag, jerk. People will either leave relationships with you depressed or pissed off.
I have not made any personal attacks, I've tried to provide answers where you have expressed confusion, and I have done so politely, yet you resort to childish name calling. Yeah, sure, I'm likely to have relationship issues. Not only are you wrong again, but clearly need to review the site rules, particularly this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Go sue someone a hole.
For what? I have not been personally affected by another person's unlawful behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
This comes straight from the adderall side effects sheet. This blames adderall and adderall alone. You need to rethink your approach to my complaints about adderall. On top of this, quite a few adverse effects have been associated with adderall. So, I think your extremely bias opinion in favor of Adderall and against the people having the new problems since they started using Adderall is not helpful.

Emergence of New Psychotic or Manic Symptoms Treatment-emergent psychotic or manic symptoms, e.g., hallucinations, delusional thinking, or mania in children and adolescents without prior history of psychotic illness or mania can be caused by stimulants at usual doses. If such symptoms occur, consideration should be given to a possible causal role of the stimulant, and discontinuation of treatment may be appropriate. (Shire full prescribing information)
This does not say that adderall and adderall alone is the cause, it only says that consideration should be given to that possibility. You've conveniently left out the next sentence:
In a pooled analysis of multiple short term, placebo-controlled studies, such symptoms occurred in about 0.1% (4 patients with events out of 3,482 exposed to methylphenidate or amphetamine for several weeks at usual doses) of stimulant-treated patients compared to 0 in placebo-treated patients.
So it has been observed in 4 children or adolescents out of 3,482 within several weeks of a normal dose of either methylphenidate or amphetamine medication (not necessarily Adderall's formulation!). The FDA requires this clause and in fact this has only actually been observed with methylphenidate, and symptoms abate typically by 2 days, no longer than 7 days after discontinuation of the stimulant. That is why consideration should be given to the stimulant medication possibly being the cause--if it is, it should be discontinued and the symptoms will abate. If such symptoms do not abate, the physician is supposed to consider comorbid or premorbid symptoms for schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--for both of which a common premorbid symptoms is attentional dysfunction. In other words: when the symptoms do not abate after stimulant discontinuation, there is no evidence to suggest that the stimulant caused the symptoms as opposed to the patient having been predisposed to develop these disorders regardless of stimulant medication. This isn't a bias, bias would be things like leaving out the sentence that gives what you posted some ambiguity as to which stimulant medication could possibly cause these effects, or portraying it as meaning that adderall is the cause when it simply does not say that!
  #42  
Old 29-03-2012, 04:41
chrischerokee chrischerokee is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
If such symptoms occur, consideration should be given to a possible causal role of the stimulant, and discontinuation of treatment may be appropriate.[/B] (Shire full prescribing information)
You contradict yourself once again. Allow me to dissect this for you: possible causal role of the stimulant This does not link adderall to the effects.

This leads to another point I've been saying in almost every single post, and go back to check if you'd like.
discontinuation of treatment may be appropriate
When you experience side effects from a drug you need to STOP taking the drug and inform your doctor. Adderall is not meant to have side effects having them means you should stop taking it, which is what I've said from the beginning.

THE INFORMATION AND WARNINGS ARE GIVEN TO THE USER PRESCRIBED ADDERALL FROM THE DRUG COMPANY. This is right from the company saying there is a "possible cause", because there isn't enough research to show or prove that adderall is a cause to any of the side effects. There is only research and studies to show that adderall doesn't cause them.

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I can read fine, why the large bold print?
Perhaps the large type will enable the OP to pay attention

Last edited by chrischerokee; 29-03-2012 at 04:57.
  #43  
Old 29-03-2012, 20:12
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

I hijacked the thread bc they were wrong about Adderall and it sucks that Cherokee has the wrong idea about what really happens as a future pharmacist. He is definitely an example of how the whole system involving Pharmaceutical drugs has ruined so many people.

I was not the type of person to have bad behavior and it is very easy to become dependent dependent on it. there is a disconnect between shire, drs, and patients. The drug is held high on a pedistal by people like Chris and the patient is kicked while he/she is down. It can be a trainwreck and they too often don't know what hit them. That's a failure from the system.

Megan288 added 17 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

I have experienced first hand the prescription drug problem that so many people in the US continue to become victims of. Nothing is done to prevent these problems. If you call this "falicious" you can turn on the news, idiots.

Megan288 added 296 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

I don't even care about your alls trying to deny what happened to me anymore. One last thing to say... This stuff also ruined my looks. I used to be beautiful, not the case anymore.

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more dismissive and inflammatory writing

Last edited by Megan288; 29-03-2012 at 20:13. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #44  
Old 29-03-2012, 21:33
chrischerokee chrischerokee is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I hijacked the thread bc they were wrong about Adderall and it sucks that Cherokee has the wrong idea about what really happens as a future pharmacist. He is definitely an example of how the whole system involving Pharmaceutical drugs has ruined so many people.

I was not the type of person to have bad behavior and it is very easy to become dependent dependent on it. there is a disconnect between shire, drs, and patients. The drug is held high on a pedistal by people like Chris and the patient is kicked while he/she is down. It can be a trainwreck and they too often don't know what hit them. That's a failure from the system.

Megan288 added 17 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

I have experienced first hand the prescription drug problem that so many people in the US continue to become victims of. Nothing is done to prevent these problems. If you call this "falicious" you can turn on the news, idiots.
Your lack of education and common sense shows in every post you've made. How dare you insult my intelligence and career, and then try to make me an example of the problem that was beset upon you. I have studied meticulously and maintained a 3.8 GPA just to get to where I'm at. You would not want me to summarize what I've learned thus far and you certainly would not want me to thoroughly research adderall... The information I've given you is a summary of the actual science involved behind it, and are intended to be minor delineations put into simplistic form. Additionally, I can obtain research that someone like you will never see because you do not have the amount of resources that I have.

You're the perfect example of what anyone in the medical field would call a "negligent patient" putting the blame on everyone else but yourself. You're in constant denial because you want to believe that a drug made you change and ruined a part of your life when in fact its quite the opposite. This is a good indicator that your an addict, not saying you are, but the likelihood that you abused adderall is highly indicative. You're a person who believes something that is simply not true, and disputes every ounce of factual information given to them refuting these beliefs.

Saying that I'm not a person to talk to about helping someone with their own problems is preposterous. You're thinking is clouded and confounded by pretentious sophomoric thinking. You also forget that a person whom does not wish to listen simply cannot be helped. This doesn't mean that I'm turning my back on you, it means you're inclined to disagree with what I have to say regardless, even though I'm correct and accurate in my responses. This is another indication that you might need additional help with your problem.

In fact, here's some advice: learning to control your behavior and be in control of your behavior helps with addiction, depression, stress, etc. There are many techniques to help you control your behavior, such as simple breathing techniques.

Earlier someone mentioned that a person cannot be in control of their behavior since it depends on chemical reactions in your body. This is also false and here's a perfect example of why: how does a person have the ability to lift up a car that has fell on top of someone? This is an example of an uncontrolled process, a stressor that releases adrenaline into the blood stream, and a controlled behavior, the person reacting to that stressor by immediately lifting the car off of the person by pure inhuman strength instead of running for help. Another example, how is a Monk able to regulate their body temperature in below freezing temperatures with no clothes on. This is done by controlling a process in the body by being in control of their behavior. Because of the monks ability to control their behavior they have the power to prevent themselves from developing hypothermia, another natural process that occurs in the body.

How is negligence hedonistic or un-professional? You have two components when dealing with prescription medicine: a.) the responsibility of the patient! b.) the responsibility of the doctor! Responsible patient was crossed off when the person decides to not be responsible. Can you tell me a doctor, whom plays by the books, that would prescribe a known addict?

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All of your posts in this thread have been informative, comprehensive, and beautifully illustrated with relevant examples. These high quality responses, along with your immense patience, are a clear testament to your education as a PharmD student!
Calling a patient negligent because she has side effects is self-indulgent, unprofessional, and manipulative - Especially for a PharmD student

Last edited by chrischerokee; 04-04-2012 at 17:56. Reason: RE: to the rating
  #45  
Old 29-03-2012, 21:34
staples Gold member staples is offline
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Re: Adderall for academia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I hijacked the thread bc they were wrong about Adderall
Okay, please do not take offense to anything in this post. I'm only doing this as an attempt to resolve any hard feelings. If you feel like I'm being deliberately offensive, I'm sorry in advance and ask that you please try to see beyond what appears offensive and take only the point I'm trying to make without any offensive tone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
The drug is held high on a pedistal by people like Chris
Have we been reading the same replies of his?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
Adderall is not meant to have side effects having them means you should stop taking it, which is what I've said from the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischerokee View Post
People who have side effects from a drug shouldn't be taking the drug. For obvious reasons, such as they are abusing it, taking to much of it, or don't need the drug for what their using it for.
Not once has he ever held Adderall on pedestal, rather, he emphasizes that it should not be used if it is causing side effects or the patient doesn't truly need it! This can be said about any medication, of any schedule!! Do you disagree with the above statements?

Or are you referring to something else he said?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
the patient is kicked while he/she is down. It can be a trainwreck and they too often don't know what hit them. That's a failure from the system.
Ok, so you seem to think my and chris's replies are of an aggressive nature. While that wouldn't be an excuse to be contemptuous and disrespectful, I can certainly see the tendency to become so hostile, so I'll try once again to assure you that it is a misunderstanding to see our replies as aggressive:

A brief recap: you entered this thread making three absolute claims about how Adderall will affect the OP, followed by your own experience which farther claims a direct link between having used Adderall and your negative experience.

Chris and I, as well as others, tried to explain that there's no way you can make such absolute claims about how another person will react to Adderall, and farther disputed that adderall, itself, could be blamed for your negative experience. Now, to your credit, you did admit that you never really meant to say what the OP definitely will experience and in fact do not believe the OP will even have those problems, but maintained that your problems were directly caused purely by taking adderall.

I think anyone in this thread who has questioned your experience being caused by only Adderall has also clarified that they do not think you are lying about your experience--myself and chrischerokee included. We have gone into immense detail (chris, especially!), cited research, and even tried to help you understand why the information you have read does not intend to express the meaning that you've clearly taken from it.

Interestingly, you shout bias and oppression from the top of your lungs, yet do you remember your explanation for the example of my fiance, who had a very positive experience with Adderall? As if by second nature, you dismissed this as the result of good parenting! As if by the laws of nature she could not have been given Adderall and left to her own devices and had a positive experience! Notwithstanding, I never once revealed anything about her parents (of which she has six, to lay down a hint). Why is it that her experience cannot be explained by Adderall alone, but yours can? Why must hers have additional factors and yours mustn't? You don't see this as bias? Perhaps even oppression of those who've been helped by Adderall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
I have experienced first hand the prescription drug problem that so many people in the US continue to become victims of. Nothing is done to prevent these problems. If you call this "falicious" you can turn on the news, idiots.
"The prescription drug problem" has been used in all sorts of contexts, but typically it is used to describe the ease in which addicts can obtain prescription drugs of abuse either under false pretenses, or from patients who are prescribed more than they need and are willing to sell their medication to these addicts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that you're a victim of over-prescribing of prescription drugs? And you recognize that you have an addiction to Adderall, right? Yet you've not sought proper care for this, and, apparently, complacently accept more prescriptions from your doctor rather than insisting that it is problematic--I wonder if you think your doctor is also 'kicking you while you're down'? Do you call him an 'a hole,' 'idiot,' 'jerk,' for apparently not believing you? I mean, you, yourself, posted an excerpt from the prescribing information that makes it clear as day that adderall should be discontinued for the side effects you report. A studying pharmacist has clarified this, and if you really need more opinions, ask your local pharmacist! Either you haven't been entirely truthful with your doctor, with us about what you've told your doctor, you've left out some important details, or your doctor is breaking the law at your expense.

This does cause us to worry about your health! At least, I speak for myself. If you're allowing your own miserable experience with adderall to continue, then who else here has such an immediate opportunity to prevent these problems, yet still isn't?

Look, nobody here means to kick you while you're down, and I personally apologize if any of my posts have made you feel this way, but let's stick with this metaphor for a moment: if you're currently 'down', what do you believe would be involved in helping you 'get back up' (or, what would 'getting back up' entail)? So far your posts make it sound like you're trapped by your addiction, but addiction can be overcome--where, exactly, are you stuck? do you need help finding facilities to help overcome addiction? What sort of replies to this thread would not make you feel kicked while down, etc?

Again, please understand that I'm trying very hard and giving you a lot of my time in hopes that we can address what it is that makes you feel so attacked, here. Nobody should feel that way on this forum, at least not when trying to communicate experiences and discussing research! It shouldn't be difficult for everyone involved in such discussions to participate amicably, so I'd just like to reiterate that I do not mean to do anything more than make some points in this post. If you feel like something is intrinsically offensive, feel free to PM me for clarification, just please do not let it upset you.
  #46  
Old 02-04-2012, 15:46
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Re: Arguments presented for/against the use of Adderall

Ok, this thread is for discussion about the perceived harms/benefits of adderall use.

Keep it civil.
  #47  
Old 02-04-2012, 22:00
embreed embreed is offline
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Re: Arguments presented for/against the use of Adderall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post

well, motivation will be nonexistant. off the radar. I'm saying what you have to do won't even be in the back of your mind and nothing will be nagging you except for the fact that you know nothing's nagging you and your brain isn't working and for the first time in your life you don't care about anything.
I second this. when i went off adderall for a week i can say that i was the most useless peice of lazy, hungry, crap that you can think of. I didnt want, or even think, of anything other than sleeping and eating. Work?? pshhh i couldnt do work, i could barely get out of bed and go to class. Actually i couldn't even do that for several days.
I was on a dose much higher than yours and went cold turkey but please, if youve gone this far you can probably go the rest. Its nice at first but then you need it to do anything, and i mean anything.
  #48  
Old 02-04-2012, 22:43
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Re: Arguments presented for/against the use of Adderall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan288 View Post
Dr.'s don't have enough scrutiny for prescription drugs because of the billion dollar industry's influence. 8 billion dollars can effect sober drs' common sense. my dad's an eye dr and I worked for him. I've been on medscape. I've seen all of this stuff first hand.
In the USA, state governments will spend a combined $25 billion per year (check out the real-time spending clock on that link) on the War on Drugs and the federal government will spend another $26 billion on top of that. Search Google for "DEA criminal cases against doctors."

I'd rather doctors be able to prescribe whatever they think is most effective, independent of whether it has the DEA bureaucrats' approval.
  #49  
Old 03-04-2012, 00:37
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Re: Arguments presented for/against the use of Adderall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovinator View Post
In the USA, state governments will spend a combined $25 billion per year (check out the real-time spending clock on that link) on the War on Drugs and the federal government will spend another $26 billion on top of that. Search Google for "DEA criminal cases against doctors."

I'd rather doctors be able to prescribe whatever they think is most effective, independent of whether it has the DEA bureaucrats' approval.
To add on to this, doctors that prescribe medications or drugs to people in a manner that is excessive just because the patient asks for it, is doing so unethically and shouldn't be a doctor. It is for this reason anyone practicing has to oblige by an ethical oath of conduct or they may potentially lose their license. Majority of doctors follow the proper "guidelines" since any kind of neglect or inattentiveness on their behalf may cost them the life of a patient and on top of that jail time.

However, that isn't to say there are no unethical corrupt doctors looking to make money, which the DEA would be after. Doctors aren't stupid and they didn't just stroll through years and years of college to come out with no sort of knowledge. They know when patients are abusing their prescriptions, and they will not just hand out another dose at the patients request. Doctors give PRESCRIBED dosages for a reason, when that prescribed dosage doesn't last the patient then there is "potentially" other reasons for it. The more scrutinized drugs like oxycotton, vicodin, and xanax for example, have a more prevalent form of abuse. When a patient goes through a months prescription in a few days there's an obvious discrepancy. If a doctor prescribes another prescription after a few days, they shouldn't be practicing. You cannot account for uncontrolled variables, such as doctors being unethical or patients abusing their prescriptions.
  #50  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:59
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: Arguments presented for/against the use of Adderall

for:
It puts me effortlessly in the hear and now during important conversations with people. It makes me more aware of my surroundings.
scientific term: Focus

against:
it has a huge effect on me that is very difficult for me to comprehend and even perceive
it makes me saccharine when I otherwise would not be.
Takes away from who I was and made me do/say things I would have never done, without caring about it.
Big personality change.
Little things become a huge deal.
Scientific term: psychosis ?

Last edited by Megan288; 03-04-2012 at 02:08.

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