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Justice & Law (News) News about drug busts, bans, court cases, and law enforcement.

 
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  #1  
Old 14-03-2012, 16:49
Alfa Alfa is offline
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Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Austria, Gmunden
Hanna D. a 20 year old mother of a 1 year old child, died of heart failure last Thursday afternoon. She was said to have consumed a bath salt product. Its unclear what research chemical the bath salt product contains. The toxicological analysis will take time.

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Hanna had a meeting with her social worker at 3PM Thursday afternoon. In her social talk with her social worker she told that she had just picked up a free sample of a 'bath salt drug' at a local headshop and had consumed some of it on the way to the meeting.
During the session, Hannah abruptly collapsed while her body went into a spasm or cramp. Emergency services were called in, which rushed Hannah to the hospital. Shortly after arrival in the Hospital, Hannah stopped breathing.

Hannah's mother had spoken to her only one hour before her death. The dramatic news catched Hannahs mother completely unprepared and caused a mental breakdown.

A facebook message gave the police more information about the source of the drug: Hannah friended a headshop on facebook. A facebook post stated 'The product has arrived!'
When the police found out which headshop sold the bath salt drug to the woman, the police raided the headshop 'Head & Grow' located on the Bahnhofstrasse in Gmunden and arrested the 29 year old headshop owner: Doris G.
Similar products were confiscated in the raid. The headshop was closed and sealed.
The police had the headshop in sight before this accident but previously had no legal grounds to act. But a new 'novel psychoactive substances law' was introduced on January 1st 2012, which bans the sale of psychoactive drugs and explicitly defines a sentence of 10 years in jail for selling a psychoactive drug that leads to a fatality.

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Hannahs brother and parents will raise the 1 year old that Hannah leaves behind.

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interesting news article,
  #2  
Old 14-03-2012, 17:14
Tingley23 Tingley23 is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

i do not understand. i feel that the owner of the headshop shouldnt be in trouble. the product clearly stated on the package, " not meant for human consumption." Unless the owner told hanna to throw her head back and drop the salts down her nose, nothing will stick in courts.
  #3  
Old 14-03-2012, 17:24
Alfa Alfa is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

The headshop seems to have given out a free sample of a new product. The headshop owner likely had no idea that this product was deadly and blindly trusted the wholesaler that provided the product. However, the headshop should have sent samples to a lab for analysis first and should have requested documents like CoA and additional information from the supplier.

If anyone has any idea which product / brand is involved, then please notify the staff.
  #4  
Old 14-03-2012, 23:59
Alfa Alfa is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

The website of the head and grow headshop shows one brand of bath salt product:

Charge+ from the Herbal High co (UK)



The Head and Grow website lists that they are temporarily out of stock, so it may well be possible that a new batch of Charge+ had arrived last Thursday.
The producer writes this on their website:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Herbal High Company UK
We've spent a long time developing this product to ensure its high quality. Charge is unparalleled on the bath salt market and consistently our best seller across the globe.

With our new added ingredient to make it even smoother, Charge is - by far the best bath salt you can find.
So whatever this new ingredient is, there seems to be a deadly problem with it.

A Google search for Charge+ yields tens of thousands of search results. This product is quite wide spread.
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  #5  
Old 15-03-2012, 00:50
Soma84 Soma84 is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Is it not possible that the chemical involved (although psychoactive) is no more harmful than any other of the current research chemicals on the market, but she was unlucky and had some underlying health condition? A heart defect or something perhaps?

Makes me wonder how accurately they can investigate these types of events.

Regardless, it's a waste of a life and a tragedy for the little nipper and parents
  #6  
Old 15-03-2012, 01:24
Alfa Alfa is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

The product was new in stock. The headshop alerted Hannah that the product had arrived. The sample was given out for free. The producer lists they have launched a new ingredient in Charge+.

These are all strong indications that there is a novel, misidentified or tainted ingredient introduced.
We have seen a similar situation with Bromo-DragonFly which immediately caused deaths after arrival. Example: If you have ordered 2C-E from Chemicology then your life may be in danger
It makes no sense to state that research chemicals have some common ground in harmfulness. Every drug has its risk profile. And that greatly differs per drug.
  #7  
Old 15-03-2012, 03:19
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

This is similar to a very bad trend happening in the U.S. where doctors are being charged with first degree murder when one of their patients overdoses on a prescribed drug.
  #8  
Old 15-03-2012, 10:50
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

theres no evidence this was an overdose of bath salts per se, like the original article said, this was a free sample, which in my experience are always around 1 dose.

While its all good to discuss the legal situation that the head shop owner finds themselves in thats not the primary concern with this report.

The real problem is that a new, untested and unknown product is on the market that seems to have killed someone with one dose.

We can assume that the young woman was reasonably healthy (she's given birth in the past year, which means here body was capable of maintaining a pregnancy to full term = reasonably healthy)
We can guess that she may have had some experience of drug use before though this is only an assumption based on the fact that she already had a social worker, she was talking to her social worker about her drug use and had no worry about liking a head shop on her fb page, so like I said its a guess but in my opinion a reasonable one.

The real issue here is what caused the death, is there a possibility that this substance could be in open circulation, is there a possibility that more deaths could be caused?

Since one of the primary focuses of Drugs Forum is harm reduction then anyone with knowledge of the exact 'bath salt' involved in this situation, or any possible problems in others caused by the 'bath salt' in question, in fact any information at all posted here would be really useful.

If we are dealing with another rogue batch of contaminated product then lives could be saved by the sharing of information.

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Anna has routed this thread in the proper direction
Great points, logical conclusions add to the discussion
Harm reduction is one of the main focusses of DF, not THE main one.. Well done to point on HR, nonetheless

Last edited by Anna Thema; 17-03-2012 at 21:21. Reason: changing 'primary focus' to 'one of the primary focuses'
  #9  
Old 15-03-2012, 12:57
Space Numpty Space Numpty is nu online
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Its really quite simple. If you sell research chemicals to people as a legitimate company then you take on certain responsibilities which need to be adhered to.

Please don't give me any crap like the "Not meant for human consumption" bullshit. Headshops are 100% aware what their products are being used for. Its why headshops sell them not bath salt shops. The same with "Plant Food". Ever seen it sold at a garden centre?

Make no bones. If you are an RC vendor then you are basically scum, and headshops are the worst as they are clueless scum just out to capitalise on the "RC Rush". I have more respect for a smack dealer than these people who pedal "lucky-dip" products and then try to wash their hands when someone dies. If you sell RC's, fine, but don't expect people to be wanting you for the next Dalai Lama and don't try to alleviate your own conscience by bullshitting others.

Personally i hope the vendor is charged with manslaughter.

Another matter of concern is the lack of regulation with these substances. I would be happier if RC's where being produced in 1st world companies rather than backstreet labs in the far east. As long as this continues will be as long as we see fatalities over rogue batches and contamination, lets alone the long term dangers of these untested substances themselves.
  #10  
Old 15-03-2012, 13:25
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Yes I agree with Space Numpty to a point and I feel not the head shop owner, but the vendor that she obtained this bath salt from should be charged, also. Her charge should be lessened to Accessory perhaps, but one can't expect the "Head Shop" to foot the bill for everything they obtain and sell for "Chemical Analysis". It would cost very much for one enterprise to test everything. Anyway, the testing is so expensive when one doesn't even have a clue what is in the package. I know, I used to work in a Toxicology Lab and do chemical analysis on samples. I would cost a fortune. There would be no RC industry. Not that I care if there is or isn't.

Then her underlying health, we know nothing about. That is important, no matter what anyone says. There are people out there that will die from one bee sting, or peanut butter. Maybe this young mother took too much for her heart to handle. The spasms and muscle contractions sound very similar to a cathinone overdose. All anyone can do is speculate, however, it would be nice to know where this sample came from to prevent further deaths if this is badly manufactured product, tainted with some new chemicals not illegal yet, or just a decomposed product.

salgoud

Last edited by salgoud; 15-03-2012 at 22:02.
  #11  
Old 15-03-2012, 13:31
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

There is one important aspect to the liability of a vendor.

By way of comparison:
say you buy a can of baby milk powder from your local supermarket and it proves to be contaminated with melamine. (happened in massive scale in 2008) The supermarket is not responsible for not testing their products. Even though its meant to be consumed by babies. The reason is that is not economically viable for every supermarket to test all their products.
Instead strict regulations imposed on producers and distributors include analysis of products, while retailers have to adhere to minor food safety regulations.
So the supermarket is not liable when babies die from their products.

If you extrapolate this to the headshop industry then you see that here the government has not implemented any kind of regulation or drug safety measures. Producers and distributors operate in the dark without any need for testing their research chemical products, nor any requirements or safeguards in regard to the products. Its in the complete absence of regulation that dramatic accidents like this can happen.

Currently all the government does is ban specific drugs or categories of drugs. All that does is remove those drugs from the view of the government, and create the need for new drugs to be introduced. Basically the government states that people should not be using drugs. People use it anyway and are provided with it anyway.
And the government has no answer to this. They do not dare to touch the sensitive topic that may destroy their career.

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The last two paragraphs really put this whole situation into perspective. thanks for sharing your input!
Very concise overview of a complex system of issues.
Alfa can see it from the vendors point of view as well as the general publics
  #12  
Old 15-03-2012, 13:37
Phenoxide Phenoxide is nu online
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salgoud View Post
Yes I agree with Space Numpty, I feel not the head shop owner, but the vendor that she obtained this bath salt from should be charged. Her charge should be lessened to Accessory perhaps, but one can't expect the "Head Shop" to foot the bill for everything they obtain and sell for "Chemical Analysis". It would cost very much for one enterprise to test everything.
Why not? It seems perfectly reasonable to me that if you're supplying a product that you know full well is going to be consumed and has potential for harm as Space Numpty previously mentioned, that you should be making every effort to ensure that the products you sell to the general public are as represented. If that means the price of the product must be increased to cover the cost of analytical testing then so be it.

Analytical testing would be too expensive when working with single units, but when stocking many grams or kilograms of a "legal high" then it really wouldn't cut into the profit margins greatly to send a sample out for testing before putting it on the shelves. This notion that industry self-regulation is unaffordable just stems from the lazy, make a quick buck mentality that is so prevalent with RC distributors these days. In my opinion every wholesale operation in the supply chain should be testing their products, from the manufacturers right down to those selling to the end consumer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa
If you extrapolate this to the headshop industry then you see that here the government has not implemented any kind of regulation or drug safety measures. Producers and distributors operate in the dark without any need for testing their research chemical products, nor any requirements or safeguards in regard to the products. Its in the complete absence of regulation that dramatic accidents like this can happen.
I personally don't think that's a reasonable extrapolation. With something like baby milk there is a preconception that the product will be safe for human consumption. There is no such preconception with legal highs.. we're aware that there is significant harm potential and therefore appropriate steps should be taken to minimize the risk to human life. That shouldn't require government intervention.. it should just be routine business practice.

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Very Good points, i agree, adds to the discussion
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Old 15-03-2012, 13:49
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide View Post
Why not? It seems perfectly reasonable to me that if you're supplying a product that you know full well is going to be consumed and has potential for harm as Space Numpty previously mentioned, that you should be making every effort to ensure that the products you sell to the general public are as represented. If that means the price of the product must be increased to cover the cost of analytical testing then so be it.
Why not, because it was a head shop, and these compounds are specifically stated: "They are not for Human Consumption". Even though we know otherwise. There needs to be testing done at a Certified Toxicology Lab, which should state what ingredients are in the "bath salt" or "plant food". However, because these "Bath Salts" and "Plant Food" are not for human consumption, in the U.S. all ingredients must be stated on the package, from Active Ingredients and even the Inactive Ingredients, must be on all products with chemicals in them. Even food products.

Once the industry and government realize that these substance are going to be ingested, even though they are still "Plant Food" or "Bath Salts", they need to be analyzed and state what is really in them. However, then the whole RC industry will go down the toilet, which IMO, I could give a shit. It is unregulated now, and until they allow drugs to be sold at head shops, instead of "Incense", "Plant Food", or "Bath Salts" the products will only be analyzed by responsible wholesalers. From what one RC company says, that I think is the source, they say this about their shipments:

"Our RC manufacturing facility is in China, but we dispatch from one of our worldwide warehouses it depends where we have product you have requested: U.S., Canada, China, New Zealand, Portugal or UK. Doesn't matter where we ship from. We guarantee secure shipments worldwide.

Now that kind of statement means they can ship from a third world country or a country where the drugs are legal. There is really no way to stop it, because they could be operating anywhere in the world. Before these rogue chemical plants in China can be shut down, their must be some kind of treaty between countries. I just knew that this RC Industry was going to fall very soon, because of news like Alfa's. The only reason these products can be sold in the first place is because of the "Not For Human Consumption" clause. If you eat it, and you die, it's on you because you didn't follow the instructions on the label. However, if this substance had some illegal RC in it that killed this Woman, then they will be able to prosecute. However, she may have consumed to much phenethylamine and if she has Phenylketonuria (PKU), and phenylethylamine metabolizes to phenylacetic acid within 5-10 minute, this could kill a person with PKU. Because of their stringent laws on Research Chemicals, or any Chemicals for that matter. These chemicals are ingested. Like in the US, crack pipes and meth pipes are sold at gas stations with a little rose in them and sold as "Oil inscense burners", what a joke. I believe any chance of changing the RC industry to a legit legal drug industry, has gone down the LOO.

salgoud

Last edited by Phungushead; 24-07-2012 at 11:17.
  #14  
Old 15-03-2012, 13:52
Alfa Alfa is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide View Post
I personally don't think that's a reasonable extrapolation. With something like baby milk there is a preconception that the product will be safe for human consumption. There is no such preconception with legal highs.. we're aware that there is significant harm potential and therefore appropriate steps should be taken to minimize the risk to human life. That shouldn't require government intervention.. it should just be routine business practice.
A comparison to tobacco might be more applicable. That kills 5 million people per year.
Realistically I do not think that when money is involved, voluntary regulation is likely. Any industry will cut corners if it saves money and there are no legal consequences.
Regulation needs to be defined on both industry level and government level. But don't think any politician is brave enough to introduce research chemical & headshop safety regulations.
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Old 15-03-2012, 13:53
Seaquake Gold member Seaquake is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

I have seen rc vendors say that a batch of new (to them) stuff they received which they had tested was unacceptably impure and it was scrapped. the stuff they were planning on stocking then didn't appear for a couple of months more. I guess there are good ones and there are bad ones. a cynic might say they hung onto it for a couple of months the tried again though I don't think they did.

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good point, not all are bad
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Old 15-03-2012, 14:00
Phenoxide Phenoxide is nu online
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salgoud
Why not, because it was a head shop called "Head and Grow", and these compounds are specifically stated: "They are not for Human Consumption". Even though we know otherwise. There needs to be testing done at a Certified Toxicology Lab, which should state what ingredients are in the "bath salt" or "plant food". However, because these "Bath Salts" and "Plant Food" are not for human consumption, they do not need to analyze these products.
But that goes straight back to what Space Numpty pointed out and that I totally agree with. Disclaimer or not the head shops know full well that these products are destined for consumption.

Slapping a 'not for human consumption' sticker and thinking "it's not my problem anymore" is exactly the lazy and unprofessional attitude that I was bemoaning. Stickers do not mean that a person no longer bears a moral responsibility for supplying a misrepresented or otherwise dangerous product, and having not even made the slightest effort to ensure the safety of their products.

I don't agree that self-regulation would be the end of the RC industry. It's a perfectly affordable practice, just one that is unfortunately not a standard part of the industry model at this time. I actually think the industry cleaning up its act and self-regulating is the only way that it'll have any longevity. The current practices are throwing us into the dark ages by forcing the hand of government to pass stronger and stronger drug legislation. It's only as a result of sloppy industry practice that governments have got involved. Pre-Web Tryp things were a lot different.
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Old 15-03-2012, 14:36
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide View Post
I don't agree that self-regulation would be the end of the RC industry. It's a perfectly affordable practice, just one that is unfortunately not a standard part of the industry model at this time. I actually think the industry cleaning up its act and self-regulating is the only way that it'll have any longevity. The current practices are throwing us into the dark ages by forcing the hand of government to pass stronger and stronger drug legislation. It's only as a result of sloppy industry practice that governments have got involved. Pre-Web Tryp things were a lot different.
If you think that RC vendors have a shred of morality and conscience about what happens to people and you think some politician is going to stick their head out and allow drugs to be sold at "Head Shops" for the public to get high on, then I don't know where your coming from. Maybe you could elaborate. Space Numpty said RC vendors and "Head Shop" owners are scum, and that's what I agree about. They do not care about people or else they would regulate their own industry, which it appears they do not. I had a few run ins with these people, and every time I was ripped off.

The only reason these drugs have been available over the internet and at head shops in because of the "Not for Human Consumption" sticker. We all know people are not fertilizing their plant with the drugs. There would be no RC vendors, because by putting that label on is the way they circumvent the law. Otherwise, they would not be able to sell the chemicals.


Then the whole Research Chemical industry would have to fall under the Pharmaceutical Industry because you would be selling drugs not "Plant Food". You do see, this is the way they have been avoiding regulation. Drugs are not sold in "Head Shops", they are sold in "Apothocaries" and "Pharmacies". In the U.S., this would mean the FDA would be stepping in. Testing the products first, then placing them on the market for medical reasons, not to get high! The U.S. has not reached that level of stupidity yet, thank God. This country has not stooped to the level of selling drugs for the sole purpose of getting high. Man, doesn't anyone know where this is all leading. All it has done is led to stronger legislation about the Research Chemical industry and the U.S. will put an end to it. This much you can bet on. 10:1 odds. My favor. I've lived in this country for 56 years, and I know what will happen next. The Government wants to control everything. At least in Colorado we can buy Marijuana legally for medical reasons. And in November 2012, it's on the ballot for legalization of two ounces or less for anyone 21 years of age or older.

salgoud

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very good point on evasive labelling and responsibility
Made some good points, but how exactly is the government making drugs available? Are you in favour of deregulation of alcohol and tobacco products?

Last edited by salgoud; 19-06-2012 at 14:36.
  #18  
Old 15-03-2012, 15:00
SpatialReason SpatialReason is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

This makes me sad for everyone involved. I had a bad run in with bath salts once. I finally made the post enlighting the forum viewers here about it. Just look up "Pump-It! Powder" in the search terms box for the related thread where Alfa posted the more than dubious chemical "lab tests." It was a non-conclusive test that apparently showed nothing of a beta-ketone or related material to be present. It leaves so much to question in terms of the ingredients and the test itself.

From my experience and for the sake of harm reduction: stay the hell away from bath salts and anything that is a free-market shopside "energy powder." If you decide to go against this advice, just make sure to keep your wits and protect yourself through safe dosing. That is all I can ask of anyone in this situation... especially in lieau of a news story such as this and my own personal experience. Death is certainly the outcome if you don't watch yourself. I am very lucky to be alive myself thanks to my good health and ability to cope.

These chemicals come with no dosages, no list of ingredients, no assurance of purity and material content, and no assurance of anything. You might as well assume that it is industrial diamond dust being put into your body... that is my reminder I make to myself when the products sit in front of me in a glass product shelf... and that is what keeps me from making the same mistake.

I just send my warm prayers and thoughts to the family and the child. This is certainly a loss for everyone involved.
  #19  
Old 15-03-2012, 15:09
Mindless Mindless is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Another problem with unregulated production and supply is that there is no guarantee of consistency. Packages with the same external appearance may contain different ingredients. A self-regulated industry regarding both production and supply would have many benefits. These might include less risk to customers, bona fide products with known strength and purity, and the possibility that law enforcement agencies would have less reason to intervene.

I suspect that organised crime is heavily involved in the RC industry. Those producers and vendors that do self-regulate and act responsibly could get together and come up with some recognised standards. If responsible producers and vendors do so, they may even be able to force cartels out of the market. At the very least, prudent users of RCs would have access to safer and better quality products.

It seems unlikely that governments will do anything to improve this situation. Their usual response is to clamp down and make new products illegal, leaving the market wide open to drug cartels and organised crime. Groups such as the Sinoa cartel are making inroads into Europe, now would be a good time to give them some serious competition.

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Good point about consistency issues in the research chemical industry, as the same products are known for varying in strength from batch to batch.
  #20  
Old 15-03-2012, 16:34
SpatialReason SpatialReason is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindless View Post
Another problem with unregulated production and supply is that there is no guarantee of consistency. Packages with the same external appearance may contain different ingredients. A self-regulated industry regarding both production and supply would have many benefits. These might include less risk to customers, bona fide products with known strength and purity, and the possibility that law enforcement agencies would have less reason to intervene.

I suspect that organised crime is heavily involved in the RC industry. Those producers and vendors that do self-regulate and act responsibly could get together and come up with some recognised standards. If responsible producers and vendors do so, they may even be able to force cartels out of the market. At the very least, prudent users of RCs would have access to safer and better quality products.

It seems unlikely that governments will do anything to improve this situation. Their usual response is to clamp down and make new products illegal, leaving the market wide open to drug cartels and organised crime. Groups such as the Sinoa cartel are making inroads into Europe, now would be a good time to give them some serious competition.
In my opinion, these headshop RCs are not the product of organized black-market criminals and low-life thugs.

In fact I think they are the product of ignorant entrepreneurship. They are the in-roads to legal narcotic sales, and where there is a quick buck to made, this is obviously the road to take in order to avoid handcuffs as much as possible. These bath salt containers retail for a ridiculous cost that still amazes me; in the end, I was dumb enough to spend a fair chunk of change before I kicked my addiction and learned my lesson. It makes me realize just how rich these guys are getting from this stuff. They are simply turning lead into gold at this point. That is how I see this phenomenon. It is a bandwagon of men and women pursuing a fast way to make money from the nature of societal woe. People avoid getting in trouble as much as possible, and for the time being, this is a shaky path to do so.

I guess it may be the product of ignorance from someone that knows what/where chemicals can be had and what people like. Trial and error come into play on this. It is not professionals for sure behind this much like the product of synthetic cannabinoid packets. Those products are born from guys with Chinese distributor hookups buying chemicals and spraying them with pumps onto plant material... no science and no controls... just a profit margin.

So probably some low-life thug criminals have adopted this semi-legal veil as their production scheme. Yet I think it is guys looking to make money with little scruples as to what happens to their end user.

Last edited by SpatialReason; 15-03-2012 at 16:40.
  #21  
Old 15-03-2012, 17:43
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

There is currently a batch warning banner at the top of the beta-ketones page here http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=377

Do you think it might be a good idea to also put the banner at the top of the research chemicals page here http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21

For maximum coverage...just an idea
  #22  
Old 15-03-2012, 18:15
Phenoxide Phenoxide is nu online
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

There already is one. They were both added at the same time. It's just that because there's a long list of sub-fora it does not appear right at the top of the page.
  #23  
Old 15-03-2012, 19:54
Space Numpty Space Numpty is nu online
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide View Post
Disclaimer or not the head shops know full well that these products are destined for consumption
Exactly.

Its like selling handguns to anyone in the street and putting a sticker on them saying "Do not point at human and pull trigger", and then trying to shift all responsibility when someone goes on a killing spree.

The reality is we have no control over regulation in China, but we DO have control on what we choose to be generally available to the public in our own countries, or at least the regulations to ensure that products are what they say they are. In that sense, accepting that some lab in China has got everything 100% correct is dicing with danger. When i worked in the electro-mechanical market, imported Chinese products where rigorously tested because the simple truth was that left to their own devices they cut corners and we could not guarantee that the ratings the product was given where infact the true ratings of the product unless we confirmed that for ourselves. This is no different, aside from the actual dangers of un-trialled substances.

Surely there can be a legal "intent"? If something is sold as "Plant Food" but doesn't work in that environment then surely it is not fit for purpose? Maybe i'll start a global nuclear arms trade and just make sure i put stickers on the warheads stating "Do not drop on people"?
  #24  
Old 15-03-2012, 21:53
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

If anyone thinks the Research Chemical industry will be regulated and the products tested and deemed safe for consumption to be sold at "Head Shops" for the sole purpose of getting high, you will be thinking till you die.

Drugs are regulated in the U.S. by the FDA. As for now, the research chemicals are Schedule I narcotics for another 6-12 months. Drugs are medicine, not things to do recreationally (in the minds of our Government and it's leaders.)

To think that a drug (A chemical with medicinal properties) would ever be sold in a head shop for the masses to get high is just rather ignorant. If anybody has every been involved in the court system in the U.S., you know that Uncle Sam want's to protect his citizens. 350,000,000 of us.

And to think even safe and non-lethal drugs (such as marijuana) will be sold in head shops for a person to get high is not so far off in Colorado. If in November we vote for anyone over 21 years old to be able to buy marijuana at two ounces and under, I'm not sure where they are going to sell it. It will be regulated by the Government and I really wonder what shops will sell it. The medical marijuana industry is the only industry I see that has a chance of being regulated by the government for people to cure many ailments, but also to get high on, like alcohol. We will vote in November in Colorado.

If people out there think hallucinagens, stimulants, and downers are going to someday be regulated and allowed to be sold in head shops, safely, you're gonna be waiting till 2099. Just a year when I'll be gone. If people would take small steps, and get marijuana legalized in some states, like mine, Colorado, then we might have a sliver of a chance in the U.S. The U.S. regulates everything. And there is an agency for every regulatory body.

They will find the source of what killed the poor Austrian mother of only 20, and people will be made examples of and the Research Chemicals will vanish under some broad law about chemicals and who is allowed to possess them, do research with them and where they buy them. It's all a Pipe Dream. I wish it was not, but it is. This mother of a one year old child will make impacts across oceans, seas and continents. If you need a pick me up, do it legally with regulations already set in place from your physician. Not a "Head Shop" owner. They do no physical on you or check your health to see if you can handle the medication they wish to prescribe you.

The problem here, is we all live in different countries and the way our government looks at drugs is vastly different. How the hell did these drugs bypass the DEA Analog Law is beyond me. Cathinone has been a Scheduled I Controlled Substance for a awhile, and so are it's analogs. I am a proponent of the use of MDMA in clinical settings, LSD in clinical settings but what cathinones have to offer to the medical community is beyond me. Do they help plants grow. Do they help one in a bath like Epsom Salts. NO. They are very strong stimulants that will and do cause death in the hands of the ill of health or the "out of hand". Does anybody know how much she took. What was in the package she got as a free sample, NO. So it's all speculation, and everyone should stay away from ordering any type of "Bath Salts" from any RC vendor. These would put an end to needless deaths. She could have had phenylketonuria (PKU), which people must stay away from phenylketone type chemicals, or their life may end. Some people die from peanut butter, some from one bee sting, others from almonds. So it isn't necessarily a case of a tainted drug sample, but could be a 1 in 100,000 case of an adverse reaction. I've found one wholesaler of this Charge+, and feel they may be the source of the head shop, mainly because of they specifically want to deal in dollars, not Euros, sounds rather shady to me.

Hell, you can't even get Sudafed in the U.S. without presenting valid I.D. and being put in a registered book. If one can't even get Sudafed, what make anyone think they are gonna get mephedrone to get high on from a head shop after it is cleared to be 100% pure. Vendors selling illegal substances online should, but cut corners and don't test their product from their source.

salgoud

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Price discussion is against the forum rules
Very good points

Last edited by Shampoo; 02-04-2012 at 17:19.
  #25  
Old 15-03-2012, 22:56
Phenoxide Phenoxide is nu online
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Re: Headshop owner faces 10 years after new bath salt kills young mother.

You seem to be missing the point that some of us were making salgoud. Nobody here is saying that the products should be labelled as for human consumption given the current legal landscape. That would of course leave distributors very vulnerable to legal action.

However that is not a reason for the industry not to quality control its products to ensure that they are really selling what they claim to be selling. If I go to the gas station to buy some diesel then I think it's reasonable to expect that suitable measures were implemented to ensure that the product is indeed diesel, rather than regular gas, urine or anything else. Similarly if I buy a product labelled as methoxetamine then I think it's reasonable to expect that the distributor has made every effort to confirm that the product is as they claim it to be, regardless of the intended application.

Operating under the guise of "not for human consumption" and exercising quality control are not mutually exclusive practices.

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spot on response. Thanks for clarifying this for him.

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