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  #26  
Old 03-03-2012, 17:55
jen1234 jen1234 is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

My dog took Adderall IR for 3 years and switched to Vvyanse this year because they have a patient assistance program. Does anyone have any tips for getting Vyvanse to last longer? He notices that it declines slowly after about 4 hours and it's difficult to notice after 7 hours. He's tried taking it with TUMs but he's not sure that it's working.
  #27  
Old 03-03-2012, 20:00
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

SWIM says Vyvanse is better than the best amphetamines because he lived with a dealer of crystal ice. So, no. SWIM say's so far, there's no way to make Vyvanse any better. SWIM has tried 30mg, 60mg, 120mg, with practically the same effect. It has the best euphoric effect without the nasty side effects of typical amphetamines by design.
  #28  
Old 04-03-2012, 13:17
Impure157 Impure157 is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by jen1234 View Post
Does anyone have any tips for getting Vyvanse to last longer?
None whatsoever, you can't really change anything about lisdexamfetamine(vyvanse) that's sort of it's entire selling point.

None of the tradition ways to change amphetamines effect profile, such as changing gastrointestinal pH, ingesting with food, etc. none of them work to modify the effects.

The reason for that is because lisdexamfetamine is a pro-drug, meaning it does nothing until after it is ingested and it has undergone some change inside the body. This begins for lisdexamfetamine when it passes through the stomach into the small intestine, where it is then absorbed into the blood stream. Once in the blood stream some enzymes in red blood cells convert the inactive lisdexamfetamine into the active dextroamphetamine by cleaving off that pesky extra lysine molecule. Due to the way the lisdexamfetamine is absorbed and then converted by the red blood cells enzymes it has to go through the entire process at it's own pace and is unaffected by nearly all outside influence.

Last edited by Impure157; 04-03-2012 at 23:15.
  #29  
Old 04-03-2012, 18:02
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impure157 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jen1234 View Post
Does anyone have any tips for getting Vyvanse to last longer?
None whatsoever, you can't really change anything about lisdexamfetamine(vyvanse) that's sort of it's entire selling point.

None of the tradition ways to change amphetamines effect profile, such as changing gastrointestinal pH, ingesting with food, etc. none of them work to modify the effects
Yes and no. The selling point is it's reduced abuse liability. As opposed to other amphetamine formulations, particularly the ones without any sort of delayed/extended release mechanism, taking more lisdexamfetamine, for the technical reasons you've explained, will not continue to provide higher and higher dextroamphetamine plasma concentration--indeed this concentrated is attenuated in doses around 150mg of lisdexamfetamine.

What jen1234 is asking, however, is how to prolong the effects--that is, to prevent them from wearing off as they naturally seem to for jen1234--not how to achieve a higher/abusable dosage or anything of that nature. And while you're right when you say that the traditional (or a better phrase would probably be 'most commonly-advised') methods of affecting the pharmacokinetic profile of amphetamines do not have an appreciable effect on the above-mentioned property of lisdexamfetamine (attenuated d-amph plasma concentration), a higher pH in the kidneys does lower the elimination clearance of unmetabolized dextroamphetamine (but not necessarily unmetabolized lisdexamfetamine, so it can help, but not quite to the same degree as with other amphetamine-based medications).

Beyond that, jen1234 also has control over the administration of lisdexamfetamine. The prescribing information discusses how lisdexamfetamine can be administered to children who have trouble swallowing the capsules: it says to empty the contents of the capsule into a glass of water and to have the child drink the contents all at once. What jen1234 might try is dissolving some fraction of the capsule (but not all of it) in a glass of water and drinking that as the initial dose, and jen1234 can take the remainder of the dose somewhere within 3-4 hours at most (I would think) after that initial ingestion. Jen1234 never disclosed the prescribed dosage, but it's possible that a higher dose may be appropriate to achieve the same efficacy provided by the current dose (albeit the current dose's efficacy is short lived, a higher prescribed dose taken as I described could theoretically provide the same efficacy as well as achieve the longer duration). Just be careful when opening the capsule; open it over a glass of water and try to avoid having any finger under the capsule (between it and the water) because sometimes the lisdexamfetamine powder will be lightly packed and will fill more than one half of the capsule (so separating the capsule may result in some lisdexamfetamine dimesylate immediately falling into the glass). Some capsules seem to have lisdexamfetamine tightly packed into the inner/longer part of the capsule; in order to separate the dose into a fraction of the original dose, or to even get it out of the capsule at all, it may be necessary to gently squeeze around the packed powder to loosen it.

Just be sure to discuss this with your doctor; (s)he may be more comfortable adding an instant-release version of Adderall (m. amph salt) or Dexedrine (d-amph) instead of tampering with the lisdexamfetamine dose/administration. Also be cognizant of any new side effects that may suggest the dose is too high: bruxism, nervousness/anxiety, chest pain, alarmingly high heart rate, insomnia, abnormal changes in mood/irritability, etc.

Hope that helps and good luck.

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great info, thank you!
Considering asking to switch to Vyvanse, and all of your thoughtful, knowlegable posts have been extremely helpful. Thanks!
This is really helpful, thanks for the info..
  #30  
Old 29-04-2012, 04:50
Mongrel K9 Mongrel K9 is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Staples - thanks for taking the time to post these replies. They've been very helpful. I've been considering switching from Adderall 30mg XR to Vyvanse, and your input in these threads has been great. I stutter, which tends to get worse in the afternoon on Adderall, and I'm curious if I'll have better luck with just the dexamphetamine, sans levo-. I also tend to get a little anxious in the afternoons, too. We'll see what my psych thinks. Again, many thanks.

MK9
  #31  
Old 29-04-2012, 07:42
ebolarama ebolarama is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impure157 View Post
None of the tradition ways to change amphetamines effect profile, such as changing gastrointestinal pH, ingesting with food, etc. none of them work to modify the effects.
I have to disagree a tad bit, as i believe making the stomach/intestines a more basic environment speeds up the rate at which the drug is absorbed, thus getting it into the liver quicker and also making sure more is absorbed instead of released through the urinary tract. I can feel my vyvanse a bit more profoundly when i drink a tall glass of milk and have a small breakfast about 30 minutes before ingestion, and then take it with another glass of milk.

I'm not saying it makes a huge difference, but enough to be worth it.
  #32  
Old 29-04-2012, 10:28
steelydan steelydan is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Adderall xr 30mg vs vyvanse 70mg depends on body mass and the rate your system metabalizes the vyvanse. Water and empty stomach. It takes 4+ hours for meat to filter through. No citric drinks like soda and juice. Just a glass of water. Vyvanse has a reconized mood lifting quality. I'm on adderall now but why I think vyvanse is better is because its time released dexedrine. Dextroamphetamine. Adderall is 50/50 amphet and d amphet. And adderall does the trick don't get me wrong its just that I want some vyvanse. Doctors love givin that one out
  #33  
Old 29-04-2012, 18:31
staples Gold member staples is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebolarama View Post
I have to disagree a tad bit, as i believe making the stomach/intestines a more basic environment speeds up the rate at which the drug is absorbed, thus getting it into the liver quicker and also making sure more is absorbed instead of released through the urinary tract. I can feel my vyvanse a bit more profoundly when i drink a tall glass of milk and have a small breakfast about 30 minutes before ingestion, and then take it with another glass of milk.

I'm not saying it makes a huge difference, but enough to be worth it.
But milk is slightly acidic...?

I don't know that pH affects how well the kidneys absorb uncleaved lisdexamfetamine, but lowering the pH can prevent the kidneys from absorbing any cleaved dextroamphetamine, leaving it in systemic circulation a little longer.

Edit: perhaps it's worth mentioning that some people have noticed that using a pancreatic enzyme supplement that contains trypsin (e.g., "pancreatin") can drastically alter the perceived/apparent pharmacokinetic profile so that it's a bit closer to that of just dextroamphetamine. While, as far as I know, this is based on subjective reports, the idea is that increasing the bioavailability of trypsin may allow for earlier as well as more extensive cleaving of l-lysine from the d-amph--perhaps as early as in the stomach (though such a low pH is not optimal so cleaving here would be unlikely and probably negligible).

Once it reaches the more basic environment of the duodenum, not only can trypsin can more effectively cleave the lisdexamfetamine molecules, but the pancreas should release endogenous trypsin in addition to the supplemental trypsin. The degree of endogenous pancreatic enzyme release should be proportional to the acidity as well as fat and protein content of the chyme delivered from the stomach, thus, milk may indeed lead to a quicker rise in d-amph due to the stimulated release of pancreatic enzymes, and antacids may in fact have negative consequences, if any (evidently, the most significant amount of cleaving levo-lysine from dextroamphetamine occurs in the blood).

When all of this reaches the jejunum, pH levels are slightly alkaline--the most optimal for trypsin to cleave lisdexamfetamine. However, this is also the major site of drug absorption. Once absorbed, any uncleaved lisdexamfetamine is at the fate of cofactors in the blood (last chance to cleave off d-amph and thus become active--note: this does not involve the CYP enzymes of the liver, those become important in the metabolism of d-amph) or elimination by the kidneys, which is rather rapid (terminal elimination half life is ~0.47 hours for lisdexamfetamine). Thus, taking antacids to maintain a basic pH in the kidneys (and possibly extend the duration of effects) would probably be most effective when taken 1.5-3 hours after taking lisdexamfetamine (if you really need it to last longer).

Finally: if someone wants to experiment with different amounts of supplemental pancreatic enzymes, just make sure, if you tamper with any capsules containing these digestive enzymes, that the dose you intend to take ends up contained inside a capsule (not mixed into a beverage, etc!), and that none of these enzymes end up on the outer surface of the capsules. I imagine it'd be rather unpleasant to have these enzymes going to town on your esophagus!


Oh, also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongrel K9 View Post
Staples - thanks for taking the time to post these replies. They've been very helpful. I've been considering switching from Adderall 30mg XR to Vyvanse, and your input in these threads has been great. I stutter, which tends to get worse in the afternoon on Adderall, and I'm curious if I'll have better luck with just the dexamphetamine, sans levo-. I also tend to get a little anxious in the afternoons, too. We'll see what my psych thinks. Again, many thanks.

MK9
I'm glad you found it helpful. Let us know how it goes!

Post Quality Evaluations:
Useful, specific information regarding vyvanse breakdown

Last edited by staples; 29-04-2012 at 22:54.
  #34  
Old 30-04-2012, 06:54
ebolarama ebolarama is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by staples View Post
But milk is slightly acidic...?
Yes but much less so than stomach acid. And like i said it doesn't make that big of a difference, just better for absorption to be drinking milk instead of say, orange juice or an energy drink. I also eat a lot of protein for breakfast (mainly to stay fuller longer since it's sometimes the only meal i eat all day) as opposed to carbs. Never thought could have an affect, but what your post says suggests so. Perhaps the high levels of fat/protein i intake is affecting the potency more so than any ph levels?

Whatever the case may be, it works for me better when taken like this.

Just my personal experience.

I appreciate the more in depth explanation of how vyvanse works too, would love if you could share any references you got this material from.
  #35  
Old 01-05-2012, 03:32
staples Gold member staples is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebolarama View Post
I appreciate the more in depth explanation of how vyvanse works too, would love if you could share any references you got this material from.
The subjective reports on supplemental enzymes having an effect were just that, they weren't case reports or anything. I don't know if many (or, any) such reports exist on this forum but I know that some of the reports I read were voiced typically in various other forums (to which I couldn't link, anyway); then I've also talked to some people, personally, who have experienced an apparent effect using the pancreatic enzyme supplement while prescribed to lisdexamfetamine. So that much, as I mentioned, is indeed only reported subjectively so far, let me be clear on that. I was just explaining a hypothetical mechanism; there's a lot of doubt that trypsin will do much at all, but this is based on in vitro incubation, apparently without any form of agitation.

Beyond that bit, I'm not entirely certain for which information, specifically, you would like reference material. I'll assume you don't really want information about the function of the parts of the GI-tract I discussed... it's rather easy to find information on that, anyway. However, looking over my post there are some things I'm not sure if you'd like me to track down the paper it came from or not. So I'll start with a few papers that should support the bulk of what I mentioned, and if there was something that they do not cover that you were hoping they would, just let me know:

Lisdexamfetamine

Absorption of lisdexamfetamine dimesylate and its enzymatic conversion to d-amphetamine

An evaluation of the cytochrome p450 inhibition potential of lisdexamfetamine in human liver microsomes

Take care,
Staples
  #36  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:02
ebolarama ebolarama is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

I was more so talking about the trypsin and supplements, my bad for not being more clear. Regardless, thanks for the information, was worth a read.
  #37  
Old 09-05-2012, 06:54
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

I have been on various meds for Adult ADD for almost 10 years now. By FAR, the best combination for me has been 60mg of Adderall XR per day AND 70mg of Vyvanse. Over the past few years, I have used just XR in both 40mg & 60mg dosages, just IR at a 60mg dose, 40mg XR in the morning with an extra 20mg pill of IR after lunch to get me through til dinner time, Vyvanse alone at both 50mg & 70mg, and Vyvanse 70mg with 60mg IR. Although this thread is titled "Adderall vs. Vyvanse", choosing either/or isn't your only option! Someone mentioned earlier in a post about Adderall having that morning "kick". I for one LOVE that about Adderall, just as many people like coffee to wake them up in the morning. I had not felt that surge in about 2 years. My 60mg dose of XR (the maximum dosage allowed in the 3 states I've lived in, but I'm not certain it's that way in other places) was not giving me any of the energy it had before, and only got me to the point of being a mildly functioning human (as opposed to the Zombie in slo-mo that I am without meds.)
I'm not sure how Vyvanse works (and I felt it didn't work at ALL when I was taking it alone), but adding it to Adderall XR has made the Adderall work the way it used to. I have energy to live my life, yet I don't feel jittery, and I can focus without spacing out or getting distracted by every little thing that is going on around me.
I take one 30mg Adderall XR and one 70mg Vyvanse first thing in the morning, then a second 30mg XR about 4 hours later. With this dosing schedule, I get about 10 or 11 hours worth instead of the 6-8 I got from either taking 60mg of XR in the morning, or taking the two 30mg pills 3-4 hours apart.
Others may not have the same results, but if you are frustrated with not getting the full relief of symptoms from either medication alone, I suggest talking with your doctor about combining the two. It has made a HUGE difference for me!!
  #38  
Old 28-05-2012, 19:04
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

What swim likes to do is take a few vyvanse 60-90mgs one day n then not take any the next couple, tolerance builds fast and the high is way better in higher doses every few days, swim also tried 2 hydrocodone 7.5/500, 60mgs of vyvanse n sum good ol' cannibas which was easily my best experiance tht includes vyvanse
  #39  
Old 28-05-2012, 21:39
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Just letting you know, I only skimmed through all the replies and only read the OP so I apologize if I just repeat what everyone else says. In my personal experience, I would say Vyvanse is better. I'm on Adderall XR and I like that better because it gives me that "speedy" feeling which, as an addict, is more appealing to me than Vyvanse. I liked Vyvanse better because I don't get the speedy feeling and I'm less likely to abuse it than the Adderall. Don't get me wrong, Vyvanse is just as easy to abuse as the Adderall XR, but for me, I felt less of an urge to abuse the Vyvanse than the Adderall because of the lack of the "speedy" feel.

I remember liking the Vyvanse because it lasted 2-3 hours longer than Adderall XR and had a much smoother comedown than Adderall to the point where it was barely noticeable. A lot of people say that Vyvanse took a good two hours to kick in, but I don't remember it taking that long. Then again, I was on Vyvanse about a year ago so my memory about it is a little fuzzy.

I realized I contradicted myself a little bit, maybe not so much in the post, but it my head lol. I guess I like both of the medicines but for different reasons. The "addict" part of my brain likes Adderall XR better and works better for my ADHD. But, if I'm trying to be good about taking my medicine as prescribed, Vyvanse is the better option (for me anyway).

I hope this helped answer your questions and I'm sorry I couldn't be more of a help. Hope all is well with you!
  #40  
Old 29-05-2012, 02:25
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by staples View Post
Yes and no. The selling point is it's reduced abuse liability. As opposed to other amphetamine formulations, particularly the ones without any sort of delayed/extended release mechanism, taking more lisdexamfetamine, for the technical reasons you've explained, will not continue to provide higher and higher dextroamphetamine plasma concentration--indeed this concentrated is attenuated in doses around 150mg of lisdexamfetamine.

What jen1234 is asking, however, is how to prolong the effects--that is, to prevent them from wearing off as they naturally seem to for jen1234--not how to achieve a higher/abusable dosage or anything of that nature. And while you're right when you say that the traditional (or a better phrase would probably be 'most commonly-advised') methods of affecting the pharmacokinetic profile of amphetamines do not have an appreciable effect on the above-mentioned property of lisdexamfetamine (attenuated d-amph plasma concentration), a higher pH in the kidneys does lower the elimination clearance of unmetabolized dextroamphetamine (but not necessarily unmetabolized lisdexamfetamine, so it can help, but not quite to the same degree as with other amphetamine-based medications).

Beyond that, jen1234 also has control over the administration of lisdexamfetamine. The prescribing information discusses how lisdexamfetamine can be administered to children who have trouble swallowing the capsules: it says to empty the contents of the capsule into a glass of water and to have the child drink the contents all at once. What jen1234 might try is dissolving some fraction of the capsule (but not all of it) in a glass of water and drinking that as the initial dose, and jen1234 can take the remainder of the dose somewhere within 3-4 hours at most (I would think) after that initial ingestion. Jen1234 never disclosed the prescribed dosage, but it's possible that a higher dose may be appropriate to achieve the same efficacy provided by the current dose (albeit the current dose's efficacy is short lived, a higher prescribed dose taken as I described could theoretically provide the same efficacy as well as achieve the longer duration). Just be careful when opening the capsule; open it over a glass of water and try to avoid having any finger under the capsule (between it and the water) because sometimes the lisdexamfetamine powder will be lightly packed and will fill more than one half of the capsule (so separating the capsule may result in some lisdexamfetamine dimesylate immediately falling into the glass). Some capsules seem to have lisdexamfetamine tightly packed into the inner/longer part of the capsule; in order to separate the dose into a fraction of the original dose, or to even get it out of the capsule at all, it may be necessary to gently squeeze around the packed powder to loosen it.

Just be sure to discuss this with your doctor; (s)he may be more comfortable adding an instant-release version of Adderall (m. amph salt) or Dexedrine (d-amph) instead of tampering with the lisdexamfetamine dose/administration. Also be cognizant of any new side effects that may suggest the dose is too high: bruxism, nervousness/anxiety, chest pain, alarmingly high heart rate, insomnia, abnormal changes in mood/irritability, etc.

Hope that helps and good luck.
Okay, but does that mean you would need a more alkaline or acidic pH?? (my major was Environmental Biology, not Chemistry or Pharmacology)

Eya724 added 31 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by staples View Post
But milk is slightly acidic...?

I don't know that pH affects how well the kidneys absorb uncleaved lisdexamfetamine, but lowering the pH can prevent the kidneys from absorbing any cleaved dextroamphetamine, leaving it in systemic circulation a little longer.

Edit: perhaps it's worth mentioning that some people have noticed that using a pancreatic enzyme supplement that contains trypsin (e.g., "pancreatin") can drastically alter the perceived/apparent pharmacokinetic profile so that it's a bit closer to that of just dextroamphetamine. While, as far as I know, this is based on subjective reports, the idea is that increasing the bioavailability of trypsin may allow for earlier as well as more extensive cleaving of l-lysine from the d-amph--perhaps as early as in the stomach (though such a low pH is not optimal so cleaving here would be unlikely and probably negligible).

Once it reaches the more basic environment of the duodenum, not only can trypsin can more effectively cleave the lisdexamfetamine molecules, but the pancreas should release endogenous trypsin in addition to the supplemental trypsin. The degree of endogenous pancreatic enzyme release should be proportional to the acidity as well as fat and protein content of the chyme delivered from the stomach, thus, milk may indeed lead to a quicker rise in d-amph due to the stimulated release of pancreatic enzymes, and antacids may in fact have negative consequences, if any (evidently, the most significant amount of cleaving levo-lysine from dextroamphetamine occurs in the blood).

When all of this reaches the jejunum, pH levels are slightly alkaline--the most optimal for trypsin to cleave lisdexamfetamine. However, this is also the major site of drug absorption. Once absorbed, any uncleaved lisdexamfetamine is at the fate of cofactors in the blood (last chance to cleave off d-amph and thus become active--note: this does not involve the CYP enzymes of the liver, those become important in the metabolism of d-amph) or elimination by the kidneys, which is rather rapid (terminal elimination half life is ~0.47 hours for lisdexamfetamine). Thus, taking antacids to maintain a basic pH in the kidneys (and possibly extend the duration of effects) would probably be most effective when taken 1.5-3 hours after taking lisdexamfetamine (if you really need it to last longer).

Finally: if someone wants to experiment with different amounts of supplemental pancreatic enzymes, just make sure, if you tamper with any capsules containing these digestive enzymes, that the dose you intend to take ends up contained inside a capsule (not mixed into a beverage, etc!), and that none of these enzymes end up on the outer surface of the capsules. I imagine it'd be rather unpleasant to have these enzymes going to town on your esophagus!


Oh, also:

I'm glad you found it helpful. Let us know how it goes!




What effect do you think drinking a solution of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda and water) would have then, and when would be the ideal time after dosing to try that?

Last edited by Eya724; 29-05-2012 at 02:25. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #41  
Old 30-05-2012, 18:16
staples Gold member staples is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eya724 View Post
Okay, but does that mean you would need a more alkaline or acidic pH?? (my major was Environmental Biology, not Chemistry or Pharmacology)
Short answer: more alkaline.

There's no direct evidence that gastrointestinal pH will affect the absorption of lisdexamfetamine, but what I was saying is that it's possible that increased acidity (contrary to the general advice when it comes to amphetamines) with the lisdexamfetamine (so something acidic anytime from 30 minutes before up until actually taking lisdexamfetamine), may allow the pancreatic enzyme, trypsin, to have a significant effect by increasing its secretion. The idea is that this could help by cleaving the d-amph from lisdexamfetamine while in the GI tract, but at the same time, the acidic environment would work against the absorption of that cleaved d-amph, so this may or may not have a significant overall effect.

What should have an overall effect is a more alkaline urinary pH, which can be achieved with an antacid (specifically systemic antacids, though some nonsystemic antacids like magnesium hydroxide can also have an alkalizing effect on urinary pH). This decreases the elimination of unmetabolized amphetamine (but not unchanged lisdexamfetamine!). In other words, having more alkaline urine increases the elimination half life of amphetamine, giving unmetabolized amphetamine more of a chance to exert psychoactive effects (for more time). This should be more effective with non-prodrug formulations of (d-)amphetamine, but it still applies to lisdexamfetamine once it has been bioactivated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eya724 View Post
What effect do you think drinking a solution of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda and water) would have then, and when would be the ideal time after dosing to try that?
As explained above, the effect would be reduced elimination of unmetabolized dextroamphetamine. As long as the urinary pH is made more alkaline by the alkalizing agent before amphetamine may be eliminated, then obviously it should be effective, so I think drinking this solution up to 30 minutes before taking lisdexamfetamine would be a good general rule of thumb. However, sodium bicarbonate is a short-acting alkalizing agent and you'd need to re-dose frequently to really take advantage of how raising (alkalizing) the urinary pH affects d-amphetamine elimination, particularly in the case of this prodrug formulation (where d-amphetamine reaches maximum plasma concentration nearly 4 hours after ingestion). A more convenient antacid agent should be considered, such as the H2 antagonists (cimetidine, famotidine, rantidine, etc.), or a proton pump inhibitor like omeprazole.

Please also note the potential influence on any other medications/substances (prescription, OTC, recreational or "research" alike). For instance, more alkaline urine can decrease the effect of salicylic acid (main metabolite of acetylsalicylic acid, or aspirin). Furthermore, chronic antacid use/alkalized urine can lead to plenty of complications, such as kidney stones, so please understand and appreciate the complexity involved and consider your overall health before making any large change to your normal regimen.

Hope that helps
  #42  
Old 06-03-2013, 13:49
panax panax is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Sorry to start up a dead thread, but I felt it was necessary.

Vyvanse and Adderall are not the same. At all. People can talk about the pharamkenetics, the psycopharmacology, the blah blah blah whatever and say they are "technically" the same, but they are completely different beasts.

I've been taking amphetamines for ADHD on and off for about 2 years now. I officially really started my regime last May on 40mg Vyvanse. Shit was awesome. The buzz was a lot more clean than Adderall. There was no euphoria. It felt as if I had the best workout of my life and hit a freezing cold shower. Cool.

I became social, active, and overall extremely happy. It was the best thing that ever happened to me.

However, these effects begin to wear off pretty quickly. Within a few months, Vyvanse had no body load. It didn't cool me off, it just made me a calculation machine. I literally had zero drive for friends, sex, or food. Cigarettes were the only thing I craved. God giveth and God taketh away.

My friend had a similar effect to Vyvanse during high school. He turned into such a shell of a human that I was worried that he was becoming suicidal. We now joke that we only take it for finals and college midterms when we want to become robotized.

Compare this to Adderall. I don't know why, but I've never had a tolerance to the stuff. Maybe because it is not a prodrug, so the body cannot simply tweak some enzymes to break the shit down. I don't know. All I know is that it does more for me than make my mind clear. It helps me cool off and look at the big picture. It gives me a chance to collect my thoughts. The body buzz of Adderall is calming to me, and that is the paradoxical fact of ADHD.

My two cents.
  #43  
Old 28-03-2013, 04:35
Polaris Polaris is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

I agree with panax. I fell out of love with Vyvanse after three months.

I was just prescribed 'Brand' Adderall IR last month, and so far, I feel this is about as good as it's going to get for me... and that's after 20 years of using every stimulant I know of.

When not abused, Adderall is a very clean, high quality medication that even my wife approves of (everything else makes me irritable).
  #44  
Old 25-06-2013, 09:40
ForeverRed ForeverRed is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

This one Elf that I know has tried both on multiple occasions in both very high and very low doses. The Elf finds that vyvanse is extremely subtle compared to adderall. For example, on a recreational dose of vyvanse you will barely feel yourself come up and you may not know that your high unless you are paying attention. The elf was like do i feel it yet? Yeah, this game is much more entertaining than it was 2 hours ago. Where as on adderall you can feel yourself come up and the mood change is very obvious because the high is just so much more obnoxious and "fast paced" for lack of a better word. He would compare vyvanse to slowly accelerating in a car. And adderall to taking off in a jet. In addition, the elf can never really reach the same level on vyvanse that he can on adderall.
  #45  
Old 19-08-2013, 20:26
exactlythesame15 exactlythesame15 is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

All swim knows is that i got raynauds phenomanon today from vyvanse. im 25 and know have to live with this deadly skin deasise. They have a warning on their site.
domnt let them get you
  #46  
Old 20-08-2013, 04:28
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Would anyone know if Vyvanse is going to become a sub forum to the amphetamine forum? Since the original manufacturer no longer has a patent to Adderall, Vyvanse is their "replacement" for it. Perhaps adding Vyvanse to the Adderall sub forum may also suffice. I have been prescribed 200mg (along with 20mg of Adderall) a day for over a year now, for the treatment of ADHD, but would not know where it would be appropriate to properly post any experiences I (or others) have had while taking it. Because it has been deemed "safer" than the other amphetamine based medications for ADHD, I would venture to say its popularity amongts medical professionals will only increase.
  #47  
Old 23-08-2013, 15:47
tomotd11562 tomotd11562 is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Vyvanse is the most euphoric formulation of d-amp, even more euphoric then instant release d amp.

Why that is, I am pretty confident it's because the lysine molecule that is binded to the damp protects it from degrading in the acid enviorment of the stomach. The vyvanse travels far into the intestines where the ph is much more alkaline. Remeber amphetamines are absorbed better in a higher ph while they are more prone to degradation at low ph. The lixdexamphetamine is very stable in an acidic enviorment while d-amphetamine is not. Once lixdexamphetamine is absorbed into the blood streem ph is no longer an issue. By the time the liver has processed it into d amp It's already in the blood. Another factor may be that vyvanse is distrubituted differently in the body. Possibly in a way that results in the brain receiveing a much greater amount then d amp or absorbed in stomached.

Vyvanse probably has near 100% biovavibilty to.

tomotd11562 added 1 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMunee View Post
Would anyone know if Vyvanse is going to become a sub forum to the amphetamine forum? Since the original manufacturer no longer has a patent to Adderall, Vyvanse is their "replacement" for it. Perhaps adding Vyvanse to the Adderall sub forum may also suffice. I have been prescribed 200mg (along with 20mg of Adderall) a day for over a year now, for the treatment of ADHD, but would not know where it would be appropriate to properly post any experiences I (or others) have had while taking it. Because it has been deemed "safer" than the other amphetamine based medications for ADHD, I would venture to say its popularity amongts medical professionals will only increase.

That's nearing 100mg of amphetamines daily. Taking that daily at those doses will deplete neurotransmitters in no time.

EDIT: I now believe that the lysine cleaves off dextroamphetamine in the main intestines. I'm not quite sure if Lysine-dextoamphetamine sulfate enter the bloodstream.

Last edited by tomotd11562; 10-09-2013 at 19:56. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #48  
Old 27-08-2013, 08:40
Shan Shan is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

Is depleting neurotransmitters a good thing or a bad thing?? Please forgive my ignorance on needing to ask the question. I take 90mg of Adderall (the non XR one) plus 70mg of Vyvanse daily. I have been on one form of Adderall or another for 10 or 11 years for my debilitating ADD (so not fair that I get all the other crap, but without the hyperactivity!!) at these dosages, I should be running up the walls & across the ceiling, but instead I'm barely able to function through the day & haven't been able to work in a year & a half. Have I shot all my neurotransmitters & that's why I'm not getting the "kick" that should be coming along with ingesting this quantity of stimulants? I've completely stumped two psychiatrists at this point. Any advice?
  #49  
Old 28-08-2013, 10:36
tomotd11562 tomotd11562 is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

You may also wanna consider Dexedrine.

If you may be interested in switching you may want to know more about dextro-amphetamine and the formulations it is available in. Dextro-amphetamine comes in three forms vyvanse: a sustained release form of dextro-amphetamine, Dexedrine: a extended release form of dextro-amphetamine or instant release dextro-amphetamine. If you prefer an extended release formulation then you must know the difference between vyvanse and dexedrine (Both formulations of D-amphetamine that are considered to be equivalent to Adderall XR .) Vyvanse is a pro drug and is inactive even when it reaches the blood stream. Before being psychoactive, Vyvanse aka lixdexamphetamine must be metabolized by the liver. The liver metabolizes vyvanse an inactive drug into d-amphetamine at a sustained rate. With Vyvanse blood levels of amphetamine stay constant. Dexedrine, another formulation of extended release d-amphetamine is virtually s instant release dose followed by a second one hours later. Your body absorbs half the dosage of dexedrine. Upon ingestion, d-amphetamine levels peak and begin to decline until the the other half of the dexedrine releases a couple hours later returning blood amphetamine levels to peak. Shortly after the second peak amphetamine levels begin to decline again.

In my opinion vyvanse is the superior d-amphetamine formulation yielding the best absorption, steadiest blood d-amphetamine levels and the most consistent effect.
  #50  
Old 29-08-2013, 18:31
sourdough sourdough is offline
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Re: Adderall VS Vyvanse

i found for me vyvanse and adderall xr to be complete shit -- especially adderall xr... it just gave me an instant crash... and the vyvanse only had me feeling me feeling awesome for an hour and than brought forth the crash... thank goodness though that a beer and a hit of ganja helps tremendously.

...adderall ir and dexedrine ir all the way, baby!

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