Swim has always been a fan of potentiating his opiates, and now looking through this forum, he did not find one solid thread that explains how potentation works and how to do it, etc.
There are different OTC drugs and other assortement of things that inhibit your enzymes. Which essentially means they clogs the enzymes that metabolize opiates\opioids and clear them out of the body, which results them staying in your body way, way, way longer, and a way more happy SWIM. Also, blood plasma levels of opiates have been shown to vastly higher when the CYP450 set is strongly inhibited; meaning their is a higher peak, and it lasts longer.
I'm going to now list a few things you can use to potentiate your opiates/opiods as well as a little recipe for ultimate potentiation.
Tagamet HB (Cimetidine) is a broad CYP450 inhibitor. Tagamet HB tablets are 200mg each. They're OTC acid-reflux medicine.
Quinine is an ingredient in tonic water, and functions the same way as Tagamet. It inhibits the CYP450 set, more specifically, CYP2D6. It doesn't clog as many enzymes as Tagamet does, but it STRONGLY clogs CYP2D6, which is the primary enzyme for opiates like oxycodone, heroin, hydromorphone, etc. Not all tonic water's have quinine so be wary.
White grapefruit juice contains three ingredients that clog the CYP450 set. However, it doesn't clog CYP2D6 too well, which is the main one for most opiates/opiods. It does strongly 'clog' CYP3A4 though and although that's almost an 'auxillary' enzyme for alot of opiates, it definitely helps out. Any grocery store and you should be able to get a nice big bottle of 100% white grapefruit juice from concentrate.
An important thing to note for the grapefruit juice is the percentage of juice. A lot of companies make "White Grapefruit Juice" that is basically water, corn syrup, and like 10% juice, you don't want that at all. Look in the ingredients list, and make sure the only juice in there is white grapefruit, preferably from concentrate.
Nutritionally, juices from concentrate are usually not as good. However, for one reason or another, grapefruit juice from concentrate can contain 25%-40% MORE naringin, bergamottin and dihydroxybergamottin; the three enzyme inhibitors present in white grapefruit.
Benadryl (diphenhydramine HCl) and CPM (chlorpheniramine maleate) are both over-the-counter anti-histamines that increase the analgesic and euphoric properties of opiates to some extent. They also help cut down on the ope-itch. In addition, these they also slightly inhibit subset CYP2D6.
DXM (Dextromethorphan HBr, Robitussin, Zicam, etc.) Although it doesn't inhibit the CYP450 set to any appreciable extent, it does contribute to analgesia and euphoria for all major opiates. Also, it has been shown to prevent the build up of tolerance! 30mg of DXM a good half hour or so before dosing will definitely slow any tolerance build up if you use this method every time. And with opiates, that's a very big deal as many of you may know
The Naproxen (Aleve) adds to the analgesia and euphoria. Aleve comes in 220mg tabs.
Tums\baking soda are only necessary if you're eating the opiates in question. Basically, they lower the PH of the stomach\GI tract (well, technically it raises the PH, but ya know what SWIM means) which allows more of the opiate to be absorbed into the blood.
SWIM believes the best way to potentiate your opiates/opiods is by using the method that follows.
* T-45) 3 200mg Cimetidine pills (Tagamet), washed down with a HUGE tonic water\white grapefruit juice cocktail.
* T-35) 1 Coriciden Cough & Cold Low Blood Pressure (30mg DXM and 4mg CPM), 1 Benadryl (30mg), and one and a half Aleve (330mg) .
* T-20) 2 Extra strength Tums or 1.5 Tablespoon of Baking Soda if SWIY is popping the opes
* T-0) Do what SWIY will do with your opes.
SWIM has found that this will make your experience with what your take a much longer and much more enjoyable experience.
P.S. This formula should NOT be used in combination with codeine. Codeine's pleasurable effects are largely dependant on it's metabolization into morphine via CYP450 subsets. So this will ruin all effects of it.
P.S.S. Stay away from alcohol if your taking anything with APAP in it, SWIM doesn't want you to lose your liver.
SWIM thinks that other thread OP contained some valuable information but it wasn't clearly organized and didn't go in depth on why and how everything worked. This also contains info on all sorts of potentiaters and a timed out formula to use, to make it easy to know how to use.
Just wondering if anyone here could clarify -- what my anemic cousin harold has heard about grapefruit juice has been pretty inconsistent. SWIM has read that it starts working as a potentiator when consumed roughly an hour beforehand (as the OP has here), while multiple others have told him it takes more than several (we're talking 4 plus here) hours to have any substantial enzymatic effect. From those holding the former opinion it's even been suggested that SWIMmers using grapefruit juice should drink it the night before dosing.
Anyway, can somebody prove or disprove either one of these stances with some kind of resource, because to him it seems they really can't both be truth.
There are many threads like this one, but in my experience each one turns up new revelations so keep em coming thick and fast!
According to a study that I was told about (sorry no link) the amount of quinine in tonic water is at best negligible. Besides inhibiting CYP2D6 is not what one wants for any opiate which is involved with it since Codeine and Dihydrocodeine depend on it for metabolism into more potent metabolites (there are some who believe these drugs are not pro-drugs but are active by themselves)
The case with GFJ is complex and seems to vary from person to person. For many it supresses the effects of opiates while for others it potentiates. Codeine and DHC seem for the most part to be supressed, perhaps because it limits the quantity which is converted into Norcodeine and Nordihydrocodeine deemed to be potent - if one had low concentrations of CYP3A4 (the enzyme gfj inhibits) in the first place, more inhibition would be detrimental.
Take a look at the thread entitled "Signallin the end of opiate tolerance and hyperanalgesia" for an in depth analysis of potentiation via tolerance reduction as well as enzyme interference and other mechanisms.
Swim has always been a fan of potentiating his opiates, and now looking through this forum, he did not find one solid thread that explains how potentation works and how to do it, etc.
There are different OTC drugs and other assortement of things that inhibit your enzymes. Which essentially means they clogs the enzymes that metabolize opiates\opioids and clear them out of the body, which results them staying in your body way, way, way longer, and a way more happy SWIM. Also, blood plasma levels of opiates have been shown to vastly higher when the CYP450 set is strongly inhibited; meaning their is a higher peak, and it lasts longer.
I'm going to now list a few things you can use to potentiate your opiates/opiods as well as a little recipe for ultimate potentiation.
Tagamet HB (Cimetidine) is a broad CYP450 inhibitor. Tagamet HB tablets are 200mg each. They're OTC acid-reflux medicine.
Quinine is an ingredient in tonic water, and functions the same way as Tagamet. It inhibits the CYP450 set, more specifically, CYP2D6. It doesn't clog as many enzymes as Tagamet does, but it STRONGLY clogs CYP2D6, which is the primary enzyme for opiates like oxycodone, heroin, hydromorphone, etc. Not all tonic water's have quinine so be wary.
White grapefruit juice contains three ingredients that clog the CYP450 set. However, it doesn't clog CYP2D6 too well, which is the main one for most opiates/opiods. It does strongly 'clog' CYP3A4 though and although that's almost an 'auxillary' enzyme for alot of opiates, it definitely helps out. Any grocery store and you should be able to get a nice big bottle of 100% white grapefruit juice from concentrate.
An important thing to note for the grapefruit juice is the percentage of juice. A lot of companies make "White Grapefruit Juice" that is basically water, corn syrup, and like 10% juice, you don't want that at all. Look in the ingredients list, and make sure the only juice in there is white grapefruit, preferably from concentrate.
Nutritionally, juices from concentrate are usually not as good. However, for one reason or another, grapefruit juice from concentrate can contain 25%-40% MORE naringin, bergamottin and dihydroxybergamottin; the three enzyme inhibitors present in white grapefruit.
Benadryl (diphenhydramine HCl) and CPM (chlorpheniramine maleate) are both over-the-counter anti-histamines that increase the analgesic and euphoric properties of opiates to some extent. They also help cut down on the ope-itch. In addition, these they also slightly inhibit subset CYP2D6.
DXM (Dextromethorphan HBr, Robitussin, Zicam, etc.) Although it doesn't inhibit the CYP450 set to any appreciable extent, it does contribute to analgesia and euphoria for all major opiates. Also, it has been shown to prevent the build up of tolerance! 30mg of DXM a good half hour or so before dosing will definitely slow any tolerance build up if you use this method every time. And with opiates, that's a very big deal as many of you may know
The Naproxen (Aleve) adds to the analgesia and euphoria. Aleve comes in 220mg tabs.
Tums\baking soda are only necessary if you're eating the opiates in question. Basically, they lower the PH of the stomach\GI tract (well, technically it raises the PH, but ya know what SWIM means) which allows more of the opiate to be absorbed into the blood.
SWIM believes the best way to potentiate your opiates/opiods is by using the method that follows.
* T-45) 3 200mg Cimetidine pills (Tagamet), washed down with a HUGE tonic water\white grapefruit juice cocktail.
* T-35) 1 Coriciden Cough & Cold Low Blood Pressure (30mg DXM and 4mg CPM), 1 Benadryl (30mg), and one and a half Aleve (330mg) .
* T-20) 2 Extra strength Tums or 1.5 Tablespoon of Baking Soda if SWIY is popping the opes
* T-0) Do what SWIY will do with your opes.
SWIM has found that this will make your experience with what your take a much longer and much more enjoyable experience.
P.S. This formula should NOT be used in combination with codeine. Codeine's pleasurable effects are largely dependant on it's metabolization into morphine via CYP450 subsets. So this will ruin all effects of it.
P.S.S. Stay away from alcohol if your taking anything with APAP in it, SWIM doesn't want you to lose your liver.
Enjoy
I take Dihydrocodiene what can I do to make it last longer?
I don't think Mr. Bliss is a member of this site anymore, but this is quite a decent thread - these are all great methods for potentiating opiates, particularly morphine which due to its frustratingly low oral BA really needs potentiating. One other potentiater Mr. B failed to mention is the influence of a high fat meal. Although there seem to be mixed results involving this, with some studies suggesting it raises BA and others that it lowers it (it could perhaps depend on the ratio of fat, etc) I believe I have noticed stronger effects from oral morphine after a meal with a high proportion of fat, such as peanut butter or even a burger. I'm sure this will remain a contentious issue for some time, but it would be interesting to hear how others find a high fat meal effects oral opioids...
you spoke of white grapefruit juice, what about red or "ruby red" GFJ? is it less effective?
Ruby red is the 'from concentrate' cheap GFJ right? Most likely, it won't do shit. Look on the ingredients label - you can't even trust '100% juice' these days. Many times it comes from a concentrate of grape, apple, cranberry, etc with a little grapefruit juice added in. It appears both red and white grapefruit juice will work (as will the actual fresh fruit) but you need to make sure whatever you are drinking has actual GFJ in it.
Look at that ingredients list, a 40% juice with GFJ as the only juice ingredient listed is much better than a 100% juice from a concentrate of apple/grape/gfj/what have you.
Also a little protip, if you like spicy foods, try to eat the spiciest food you can while on opiates. This is not a true potentiation, but it is believed eating capsacin causes the release of endorphins, and as you may know, endorphin stems from "endogenous morphine". The dummy has said its a pleasurable experience. Of course, if you're not a chili lover, it's not recommended.
Nicotine, whether cigarettes or hookah, will intensely but briefly potentiate opiates as well.
Nicotine, whether cigarettes or hookah, will intensely but briefly potentiate opiates as well.
Agreed, the potentiation I would get from smoking could be incredible, particularly when I would smoke a pipe. I would go from getting a very mild opioid buzz due to tolerance to a full blown rush where I could barely stand up, although it was very brief. It doesn't work with chewing tobacco or nicotine lozenges though, presumably because the dose is spread out over a long time period. I still don't quite understand the mechanism behind this - it definately potentiated the actual opioid effect, it wasn't just a mere drug combination - any idea what causes this effect?
Oh yes, and another good potentiater I discovered is Nitrous Oxide - this also has a similar, albeit brief, potentiating effect to nicotine, presumably because of the drugs benzodiazepine like action on the GABA receptors....
Agreed, the potentiation I would get from smoking could be incredible, particularly when I would smoke a pipe. I would go from getting a very mild opioid buzz due to tolerance to a full blown rush where I could barely stand up, although it was very brief. It doesn't work with chewing tobacco or nicotine lozenges though, presumably because the dose is spread out over a long time period. I still don't quite understand the mechanism behind this - it definately potentiated the actual opioid effect, it wasn't just a mere drug combination - any idea what causes this effect?
Actually yeah, I remember googling this very thing a while back.
Essentially, the first link states that the end dopaminergic (pleasure) response of the brain is the same to both opiates and nicotine. Opiates bind to opiate receptors, which affect neurotransmitter systems such as GABA and indirectly, dopamine transporters. Nicotine binds to acetylcholine receptors, eliciting a very complex response; acetylcholine (previously called nicotinic) receptors are found everywhere in the body and are one of the most important, primary neurotransmitter systems in the body. Nicotine also binds to norepinephrine, dopamine, and various other receptors, and the pleasure of smoking a cigarette, as well as the addiction, partially comes from the release of dopamine.
Anyways, there's some interesting info in those two links, the second one is a technical paper and the first is a magazine article. In layman's terms, both opiates and nicotine activate the same pleasure and reward pathways in the brain by ultimately stimulating the release of dopamine.
I am surprised nobody has mentioned chocolate. When I was taking Oxy, I would always eat a chocolate bar after taking the oxycodone and it would definatly make the euphoria stronger. I am bad at explaining things, but chocolate releases your natural dopamine making you feel happy. That's why they say people crave chocolate. And it always worked for me!
Oh yes, and another good potentiater I discovered is Nitrous Oxide - this also has a similar, albeit brief, potentiating effect to nicotine, presumably because of the drugs benzodiazepine like action on the GABA receptors....
Actually its closer to DXM in terms of effects except it doesn't last nearly as long. Nitrous is an NMDA antagonist which seems to interfere or reduce tolerance while it is active.
I thought about doing this thread as well because the other thread is so long and unorganized it could use some reorganization.
All these potentiation tips apply to Kratom as well, especially DXM.
DXM is a double-edged sword, if much more than 30MG is taken it tends to distort hearing when taking it with opioids. Noises sound like blown out speakers. At least this is my experience. Though at the same time it can have some wicked potentiation effects, so caution should be used.. in fact I might even suggest you lower your regular dose a bit when doing this.
Last edited by DiabolicScheme; 03-12-2011 at 00:00.
I have never used the Tagament that the OP is talking about but I can tell you that my experience with Grapefruit Juice. I have been hand juicing grapefruit every morning since around high school and I am mid-30's now.
Grapefruit juice for me seems to work as a good potentiator when consumed (and this has been important for me) two glasses the night before roughly an hour before bed and a minimum of 3 glasses in the morning spaced out over an hour before I take my medication. 90% of the time I use Watson 10mg's. ( I will comment on the experience on other meds later) I use only Ruby Red Grapefruits and have never even tried the white ones.
After consuming the 3 glasses of GFJ I take my pills. I chew them 3 at a time and take at least 8-9. When I have extra sometimes I will eat upwards of 15. At this point I have nothing in my system besides the GFJ for at least an hour.
It seems that I start to feel effects around 10 minutes sooner than without the GFJ and they are only slightly stronger. But every little bit counts. I follow with a glass of gfj with lunch and then no more for the rest of the day. By the time lunch hits anyways I already have the full effect. For me, consuming more gfj does not matter at this point. Since I do not always have a stock of grapefruit (because I juice them so fast) I only do this once or twice per week.
Important Note: Homemade, hand squeezed GFJ is worlds apart from anything store bought. I get no additional effects from store bought. I dont know why
Note: You can also eat the grapefruits if you like but to get 3 full glasses of grapefruit juice you need about 4-5 grapefruits. I squeeze this many to get the juice and sometimes eat a whole grapefruit. I have not noticed any discernible changes from consuming the grapefruit during this process
Additional Note: The process for me does not seem to work as well with 30mg's Roxies, OC's (there is still some old stock floating around here and military people are still getting them), nor do they help with OP's. Also for some reason it does not seem to work as well as the Endocet; but that might all be in my head
SepCulpa added 36 Minutes and 43 Seconds later...
I forgot to add that my experience with spicy foods has also been a mixed bag.
So for research purposes only I will go to Buffalo Wild Wings and consume at least 12 of their hottest wings and report back with the results.
Last edited by SepCulpa; 31-01-2012 at 01:17.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
he was gonna use chlorpheniramine to potenate codein but he read chlorpeniramine is a cypd26 inhibbittor so would this not work to potenate codein.also would it work with tramadol,any help pls.he has also heard promethazine would potenate codein.only has chlorpeniramine at the moment and he doesent want to waste his codein.if chlorpheniramine would potenate codein is it best to take it before,after,or the same time as the codein.he also has some lanzoprazole for acid reflux would this help potenate codein too,thanx for your input on this,peace..
After a painful accident put a friend in the hospital for a month, some years ago, he was given Vistaril (hydroxyzine) specifically to potentiate the narcotic pain meds, mostly demerol. he said it worked great, but could not remember the dosage. Vistaril (hydroxyzine) is an antihistamine and is also used to treat anxiety, nausea/vomiting, allergic reactions and more.
I think this is Rx only (I hope I'm wrong!!!)
I assume this is one of the better potentiators, since it was used for the sole purpose of potentiating demerol.
Google Vistaril for more info. If someone is lucky, they might get a Rx for one of the "other" uses such as nausea . Mentioning to their DR that they were once given vistaril for nausea, "and it worked great." would likely result in a script.
I agree with blondemoment. SWIM does at least 150mg of oxycodone daily and has become quite addicted to chocolate. They are great together and to be quite honest-SWIM has developed not only a bad oxycodone habit,but has become addicted to lots of chocolate too. At least while the opiates are being ingested.
[QUOTE=EscapeDummy;1056266]Also a little protip, if you like spicy foods, try to eat the spiciest food you can while on opiates. This is not a true potentiation, but it is believed eating capsacin causes the release of endorphins, and as you may know, endorphin stems from "endogenous morphine". The dummy has said its a pleasurable experience. Of course, if you're not a chili lover, it's not [G/QUOTE]
I believe this to be true because if I eat a meal with a lot of hot sause on it I do seem to feel more relaxed for sometime after. I've also discovered that if you focus on the burning sensation hard enough the pain diminishes and what can be described as a slight head buzz is felt. However I think this just might be mental, a variation of the placebo effect.
Tramadol, while not a very popular opioid, acts on one of the same receptors as capsaicin. It acts on the TRPV1 receptor which tramadol is an agonist for so spicy foods might very well potentiate some opiates.
Will ANY diphenhydramine products potentiate opiates, particularly ZzzQuil, which lists DPN as its only active ingredient?
Would appreciate the feedback as SWIM has some handy. DPN is also found as the only ingredient in a lot of other products other than Benadryl such as Unisom-- would they act the same as Benadryl or will SWIM get even drowsier than Benadryl makes him?
@GetYourMindRight,
Yes, any product with Diphenhydramine will act the same as Benadryl. Just be sure to check the package as not all DPH products are the same dose, Benadryl is 25mg others may be different.
* T-45) 3 200mg Cimetidine pills (Tagamet), washed down with a HUGE tonic water\white grapefruit juice cocktail.
* T-35) 1 Coriciden Cough & Cold Low Blood Pressure (30mg DXM and 4mg CPM), 1 Benadryl (30mg), and one and a half Aleve (330mg) .
* T-20) 2 Extra strength Tums or 1.5 Tablespoon of Baking Soda if SWIY is popping the opes
* T-0) Do what SWIY will do with your opes.
SWIM has a question regarding the above mentioned method of opiate potentiation.
SWIM is well aware of the benefit to application when using the above procedure, there is no doubt that the above pattern works, as SWIM will vouch for its veracity.
Having said that, if SWIM were planning on a rectal delivery system of an opiate, would the above items benefit that delivery process as well? SWIM is thinking that the method posted above is strictly for an oral consuming method; and that a rectal delivery method will have no effect in either direction.
Can SWIM comment on the effect for a non-oral delivery system as mentioned above?
You dont have to use anything, discussing using drugs is not against the rules. The self incrimination rules only apply to drug production/growing.
If you want to avoid self incrimination why not just talk about a friend, or a friend of a friend AFOAF.
If you just follow the link posted in your rep you would see this.
(I hope I'm wrong!!!)
