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  #1  
Old 14-07-2005, 17:39
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2C-I and pounding headache

A friend of mine has experienced 2C-I on several occations has noticed that even with doses that arent huge.... 15-20mg range produce a terrible terrible migrane that last throughout the night and lingers into the next day. Extreme pain in the eye region, Perhaps from dialation? but incidently doses hovering around 10mg produced no pain. Has anyone else out there experienced anything like this with 2C-x?

Last edited by Terrapinzflyer; 10-09-2010 at 22:36. Reason: prefix
  #2  
Old 14-07-2005, 19:52
Nagognog2 Nagognog2 is offline
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If your friend suffers from migraines, and this substance causes one - for heaven's sake have him stay away from it. Migraines are caused by vasodilation of blood vessels in the brain. If such as 2-CI creates this phenomena, then stay clear. I can't think of a worse time than tripping with a migraine headache. I inherited migraines from my father's side of my family. I know the agony they produce. To take something that causes such once is a mistake. To take that twice is full-blown masochism.


On the plus-side of the coin - migraines tend to diminish and then disappear as one grows older. No one knows for certain why this is, but they do disappear as the days go by.
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Old 14-07-2005, 22:17
billbot101 billbot101 is offline
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I dont really know anything about that. I did get pain that felt
somewhat like a migrane. But it was in my jaw cheek bones and temples.
Im just gonna say it was from smiling to much and leave it at that.
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Old 15-07-2005, 00:46
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the person I was speaking of has no signs of pain during the experience, its like a hangover much worse than MDA. not so much energized aggitation, but the headache I spoke of, and reluctance to move, really worn out. The pain starts as effects wear off, in other words, no more trails or mood elevation, the decline period. The person I spoke of however has had a mild to moderate history of migranes that come and go month to month, year to year. Oddly though low doses produce no ill effects whatsoever. and low I mean 'bout 10mg nothing more
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Old 15-07-2005, 05:24
nanobrainPlatinum member nanobrain is offline
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2C's are famous for inducing headaches.

nagognog2, i can think of something worse than tripping with a migraine - tripping in the middle of a cluster headache attack during a cycle, in the erroneous hope that psilocybin would abort...Edited by: nanobrain
  #6  
Old 15-07-2005, 05:43
Nagognog2 Nagognog2 is offline
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My personal favorite was being arrested on my way to work while I was merrily flying on some LSD. I was placed in the courtroom in chains and accused of having marijuana. I did not, but that police department needed no evidence to convict you in their kangaroo kourt. I later won the case. The head of the probation department drove me to work after the judge instructed the cops to unchain my hands and legs.


Shall we say it was not an ideal set and setting? Ever see a judge melt?
  #7  
Old 15-07-2005, 10:24
korky8097 korky8097 is offline
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i get headaches every so often on it. Last time infact i got a
kinda bad one, not one huge enough to ruin a trip but it was
there. Weed helped pretty good though.
  #8  
Old 17-07-2005, 20:48
oldman Gold member oldman is offline
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with 2ci I get headaches from the decline on but I think it is from the jaw clentching and smiling and such. 4 Advil works pretty good. no ill effcts after several hours sleep. Each time I used I felt that maybe it was more than I should've (20-25mgs) and would like to try a dose at about 12-14mgs. The chem seems to make me and my girl very dopey, and at a constant loss of words and inability to keep conected to a topic of discussion. It's alost too much of a psychedelic and not enough of a stimulant quality like I like with mdma. Was wondering if this is how others view this. Sex is good but like you're at another level of consciousness. And do others get the turned on and off thing? Like you're for 1-2 minutes on nothing. Have had similar responses to 2ct2 but again may try lower dosage next time. Just a stupid labrat I guess.
  #9  
Old 17-07-2005, 23:03
Nagognog2 Nagognog2 is offline
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I have a hard time understanding how MDMA and 2-CI end up being compared to each other so often. I am guessing that someone(s) attempted to market 2-CI as a replacement for MDMA. But they are not similar in my book. 2-CI as a full-scale psychedelic. Not near being an entactogenic. Anyone taking 2-CI and expecting an experience like MDMA will be quite disappointed. As much as would someone taking MDMA and expecting the walls to melt and ripple.


The only substances that are close to MDMA seem to be MDE and MMDA. As well as methylone. Not even MDA comes close. Anyone who knowingly mis-represents something like 2-CI as being an MDMA substitute should be run out of town - in my opinion.
  #10  
Old 07-09-2011, 15:48
MageYouLook MageYouLook is offline
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Re: 2C-I and pounding headache

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagognog2 View Post
Migraines are caused by vasodilation of blood vessels in the brain.
Firstly Nagognog2 hinted towards one highly possible reason to 2c-i causing headaches and that is vasodilation.

increases in serotonin cause vasoconstriction (shrinking the blood cells) and 2c-i creates its action and once it wears off the serotonin levels drop quite a bit causing vasodilation which is likely responsible for the leftover headache.

Interestingly enough swim has noticed that the headache is localized to the back of the head which happens to be the exact region for procession visual information and what do you know 2C-I causes a great deal of visual effects!

What can you do to help deal with this?

1. You may find walking or light exercise (to not over do it) to help deal with the comedown as exercise increases serotonin production.

2. Also 5-htp on the comedown may help though without experience using 5-htp (needs to be combined with b6 to convert to serotonin effectively) I would recommend testing it with quite low doses if at all since 2C-I's serotonin reuptake inhibition may still be in effect during comedown making you more sensitive to serotonin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagognog2 View Post
On the plus-side of the coin - migraines tend to diminish and then disappear as one grows older. No one knows for certain why this is, but they do disappear as the days go by.
Its possible that older people do not naturally have as much range in neurotransmitter changes as young people do so the main cause of most headaches being drastic vasoconstriction to drastic vasodilation would be less likely and less frequent.

hope this helps a bit.
  #11  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:33
snarkymalarky snarkymalarky is offline
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Re: 2C-I and pounding headache

Quote:
Originally Posted by MageYouLook View Post

increases in serotonin cause vasoconstriction (shrinking the blood cells) and 2c-i creates its action and once it wears off the serotonin levels drop quite a bit causing vasodilation which is likely responsible for the leftover headache.

Interestingly enough swim has noticed that the headache is localized to the back of the head which happens to be the exact region for procession visual information and what do you know 2C-I causes a great deal of visual effects!
Other drugs with similar action on serotonin, like LSD or mushrooms for example, don't cause headaches the same way 2ci does. Have you actually observed dilated veins during the headache portion of a 2ci experience?

When my friend takes it, he always tells me that his veins in his wrists look extremely constricted while he has a headache. It is very stimulating after all. My friend finds it hard to believe that 2ci causes vasodilation.

Last edited by snarkymalarky; 11-09-2011 at 06:34. Reason: typo
  #12  
Old 12-09-2011, 13:29
MageYouLook MageYouLook is offline
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Re: 2C-I and pounding headache

Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkymalarky View Post
Other drugs with similar action on serotonin, like LSD or mushrooms for example, don't cause headaches the same way 2ci does. Have you actually observed dilated veins during the headache portion of a 2ci experience?

When my friend takes it, he always tells me that his veins in his wrists look extremely constricted while he has a headache. It is very stimulating after all. My friend finds it hard to believe that 2ci causes vasodilation.
You have a very good points and a good question.

One would be unlikely to observe the dilated veins since it is not the veins that dilate it is the blood cells that dilate. Also this occurs at the localized spot which happens to be at the back of your head since that is where there is intense serotonin action caused by the selective serotonin reuptake effect from 2c-i. The 2c-i does not cause vasodilation it is the comedown effect which causes vasodilation. On top of that the reason for headache is the drastic change from vasoconstriction to vasodilation so your body is not able to so quickly deal with it.

Here is a quote which explains the min cause of headaches and migraines which can be found by searching "headaches and serotonin" on google.

I have found the same information from many sources as well as have done testing on my own by manipulating serotonin levels.

"Migraine headaches seem to be caused in part by changes in the level of a chemical made in the brain called serotonin. Serotonin plays many roles in the body, and it can have an effect on blood vessels. When serotonin levels are high, blood vessels constrict (shrink). When serotonin levels fall, the blood vessels dilate (swell). This swelling can cause pain or other problems."

I am glad you pointed out other serotonin related drugs and how they should also cause headaches.

check out the negative side effects of Psilocybin Mushrooms on erowid's vault

listed you will see
headache, usually as effects wear off, sometimes beginning the next day, lasting for up to 24 hours.

that is because of the serotonin as you suggested should be present.

I have read reports of LSD use also causing headaches on the comedown.

Even if there were an absence of these effects to support your doubt in my explanation of the effects it would not necessarily harm the explanation for why 2c-i causes localized headaches at the location of action where a well established headache causing effect occurs. The reason for this is because each person will be effected differently depending on how they manage their serotonin levels during and after the trip. For example SWIM has light dose weed pills which raise serotonin a reasonable amount over a long period of time to completely remove the headaches. Other have suggested smoking weed helps for the same reason. In much the same way eating appropriately and doing light exercise will also help reduce the headaches theoretically as you can influence your serotonin levels to account for the drastic changes.

I am not fully aware of how to influence serotonin localized to a specific region such as the visual (back part) of the brain though if you look into the broken down more specific 5htp receptors you will likely find which ones are most responsible for that area and then be able to look up what you can do to influence it.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

edit: I could not post links and submitting had errors even when I made it so it was not formatted like a URL at all.

Last edited by MageYouLook; 12-09-2011 at 13:31. Reason: couldn't submit with links to resources
  #13  
Old 12-09-2011, 14:44
Shampoo Shampoo is offline
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Re: 2C-I and pounding headache

Quote:
Originally Posted by MageYouLook View Post
One would be unlikely to observe the dilated veins since it is not the veins that dilate it is the blood cells that dilate.
Care to elaborate on this? Blood cells do not "dilate." Blood cells can swell or shrink, but they do not "dilate" as blood vessels, veins or arteries do.

Quote:
The 2c-i does not cause vasodilation it is the comedown effect which causes vasodilation.
Do you have any evidence to support this? Seems like something you are quite sure of.
Quote:
On top of that the reason for headache is the drastic change from vasoconstriction to vasodilation so your body is not able to so quickly deal with it.
Again, evidence please.

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  #14  
Old 19-09-2011, 20:07
MageYouLook MageYouLook is offline
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Re: 2C-I and pounding headache

ah I had written a response to your comments before and thought I had posted it and checking back it is not here! oh well i'll try and write it about the same.

Also make note that SWIM is not telling anyone how it is, SWIM is suggesting reasonably possible explanations to what the issue is and what can be done about it. This is from both experience of the issue and managing it as well as putting together available information to make assumptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shampoo View Post
Care to elaborate on this? Blood cells do not "dilate." Blood cells can swell or shrink, but they do not "dilate" as blood vessels, veins or arteries do.
This was my mistake, I confused blood vessels for blood cells when I learned about what vasodilation and vasoconstriction meant. The meaning I was going by was vasodilation allows more blood and oxygen to flow and vaso constriction is the opposite. What I meant to say was one would be unable to observe the vasodilation or vasoconstriction if it is occurring at a very specific place in your head with which you have no ability to see the blood vessels.

Why can't we see it? The headaches are occurring at the back of the head. If the isolated serotonin changes which I am describing are influencing the headache effect vasoconstriction and vasodilation would be isolated to that point in your head.

Quote:
On top of that the reason for headache is the drastic change from vasoconstriction to vasodilation so your body is not able to so quickly deal with it.

simple google search as the first quote followed by two studies about the relationship between serotonin and headaches.
Quote:
What causes migraine headaches?

Migraine headaches seem to be caused in part by changes in the level of a chemical made in the brain called serotonin. Serotonin plays many roles in the body, and it can have an effect on blood vessels. When serotonin levels are high, blood vessels constrict (shrink). When serotonin levels fall, the blood vessels dilate (swell). This swelling can cause pain or other problems.

Many things can affect the level of serotonin in your body, including your level of blood sugar, certain foods and changes in your estrogen level if you're a woman.
Quote:
Serotonin and Its Role in Headache Pathogenesis and Treatment
Marcus, Dawn A. M.D.
Abstract
Objective: This review tries to consolidate the literature on changes in serotonin and the importance of these changes for understanding headache pathogenesis and determining treatment. A model is presented that integrates previous serotonin studies and offers an explanation for apparent contradictions in the literature.

Data Sources: Fifty-four journal articles that described a relationship between serotonin and headache in animal and human models were identified through Medline search and bibliography and reviewed. Alterations in serotonin, headache, and clinical situations influencing headache activity were examined.

Data Synthesis: Abnormalities in blood vessels have traditionally been implicated in the pathogenesis of migraine headaches, and excessive muscle contraction in tension-type headaches. Interestingly, both vascular and muscular changes occur in both migraine and tension-type headache. Recently, biochemical changes have been demonstrated in both types of headaches. These biochemical changes are postulated to precede and possibly cause the subsequent changes in blood vessels and muscle tone, known to occur in chronic headaches. Serotonin has been the most widely studied neurochemical in relation to headaches. Apparently contradictory results have been shown, such as increasing serotonin levels both increasing and decreasing headaches.

Conclusions: Serotonin plays an important role in the pathogenesis of headaches. Changes in serotonin may precede the vascular and muscular changes of migraine and tension-type headaches. The influence of serotonin on headaches explains a number of clinical situations that affect headache activity and the variety of classes of effective headache medications.

(C) Lippincott-Raven Publishers.
Quote:
Serotonin and migraine.
Humphrey PP, Feniuk W, Perren MJ, Beresford IJ, Skingle M, Whalley ET.
Source
Pharmacology Division, Glaxo Group Research Limited, Ware, Hertfordshire, England.
Abstract
Migraine has long been considered as a "vascular headache" but clearly neurological mechanisms are involved. The pathophysiology appears to somehow involve serotonin, both peripherally and centrally, but its involvement may be just epiphenomenal. Adding to the enigma it is apparent that many of the presently available drugs for the treatment of migraine interact in one way or another with serotonin receptors. However, they tend to have a number of other unrelated actions and they are only of limited clinical value. Interestingly a promising new drug for the treatment of the acute attack, sumatriptan, has a very selective action as an agonist at a specific 5-HT1-like receptor sub-type, mediating vasoconstriction, which is localized on cranial blood vessels. Its action may, or may not, be independent of any involvement of serotonin in the genesis of migraine. Hopefully though, current attempts to determine sumatriptan's mechanism of action will shed further light on the pathology of migraine itself and the putative involvement of serotonin.
There is a great deal of research identifying serotonin as playing a role in headaches. There is a great deal of research on how serotonin is a vasoconstrictor as well as naturally during a time of less serotonin the opposite of vasoconstriction should occur (ie vasodilation). It is suggested that because of the vasoconstriction and vasodilation in your head causes that swelling painful feeling. Literally I am suggesting that your head would hurt if it vent from having small constricted blood vessels in your brain when serotonin goes up to large dilated blood vessels when it goes back down. Has anyone noticed that your head pounds with your heartbeat? As though the flow of blood could be related to pain which I am suggesting is caused by too much blood flow.

Quote:
The 2c-i does not cause vasodilation it is the comedown effect which causes vasodilation.
Naturally I can not show evidence for this besides that on its drug info page here on drugs forum it is suggested that it is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor as well as having effect on visuals which are processed at the same place in your head where the headache occurs.

I am happy to be challenged on what I have said previously as I am here to learn and share with others so we may learn together.

As you had mentioned before that what i suggested would mean that both shrooms and lsd would have headaches as a side effect and you claimed that they don't. SWIM did not know first hand or even having researched to see if those cause headaches as SWIM had described they should and then SWIM finds "headache, usually as effects wear off, sometimes beginning the next day, lasting for up to 24 hours." for shrooms. Naturally SWIM could have guessed some people must experience this rather than suggesting since SWIM has not experienced this that no one will have. There are many ways to mitigate symptoms though it seems fairly reasonable to assume serotonin plays an important role in headaches.

If anything I have said doesn't hold or make sense feel free to point it out. Without the research out there specifically about 2c-i and its effects all we can really do is investigate relationships and our current understandings which I have attempted to go on from here.

hope this clarifies my post a little.

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  #15  
Old 25-09-2011, 02:02
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Re: 2C-I and pounding headache

Quote:
Originally Posted by college View Post
A friend of mine has experienced 2C-I on several occations has noticed that even with doses that arent huge.... 15-20mg range produce a terrible terrible migrane that last throughout the night and lingers into the next day. Extreme pain in the eye region, Perhaps from dialation? but incidently doses hovering around 10mg produced no pain. Has anyone else out there experienced anything like this with 2C-x?

Swim has experianced minor to moderate headaches from all 2C's more so on the come down
  #16  
Old 27-09-2011, 15:29
snarkymalarky snarkymalarky is offline
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Re: 2C-I and pounding headache

My point is: if 2ci is causing vasodilation through whatever mechanism, there is no reason for that vasodilation to be local to the brain. It should be the same everywhere in the body, in which case one would be able to observe dilated veins in their wrists. Vasodilation means dilated veins, it has to do with the smooth muscle around the veins relaxing. So any vasodilation would have to be visible and confirmable.

However, when my friend gets headaches from 2ci, he looks at his wrists and sees that his veins are not dilated. They are constricted. This makes sense, because vasoconstriction causes an increase in blood pressure, and high blood pressure causes headaches.

It may be possible that vasodilation can cause headaches, but my friend has never observed vasodilation during a 2ci experience, or any phenethylamine experience for that matter. These chemicals are stimulants and cause vasoconstriction. Has anyone here confirmed that their veins are dilated while they have a headache from 2ci?

The veins become less constricted during the comedown, but they only go back to normal. They don't get dilated compared to normal.

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