Health - Which is more harmful: LSD or Esctasy?

[shivan]

SWIM had a argument with his friend over this. SWIM think that Esctasy is way more harmful than LSD, however SWIM acknowledges that if SWIM uses LSD regularly over a period of time SWIM can be sure to insane.

However, SWIM read somewhere that Esctast damages the brain on the very first trip, problems with lack of endorfines in the brain etc. etc. do not come until later.

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim would like to read studies concerning anything you mentioned above.

Swim would say, "Ecstasy", because it has a MUCH larger chance of being contaminated nonsense in a pill, and not true MDMA. Most "X" pills swim has seen being sold in the business were full of any combo of DXM, H, Meth, Amphetamines, BZP, Ephedrine, and just about any bad combo you can imagine.

True MDMA has potential dangers, and there are very few if any studies for long term usage.

However, Swim says the same above applies to LSD. Swim sees Research chemicals sold as LSD often.

Both have a very good chance of not being the drug they are supposed to be.

Swim would say the chance of flashbacks from LSD is a big negative.

[entheogensmurf]

You almost sound like a troll, shivan


LSD is not dangerous physically (unless you do something as a result of the mental). It is all under the fractally flawed ilk spouted by propagandists and the ignorant.
Mentally... well, even then it's still bullshit statistically and nearly nullified under professional use.

Propagandists in this sense are organizations that spread lies, mistruths and skew information to create a beast that is not there or it is a kitten with but mitten covered claws and rarely able to break the skin fangs.

I personally would not recommend LSD to people without a comprehensive understanding of their mental state -- and even then I restrain simply because of unknown factors and the illegal status. I've never known someone who actually suffered other than some heavy panic sensations from any psychedelic drug. There is a difference between difficult/overwhelming experiences vs. damaging and dangerous. A fine line when you can't seek help without being punished by the law of course.

The greatest harm from LSD comes from improper use and a lack of comprehension of the mind trek.
Do we allow motorists to zoom around without proper training?
Where does the harm come from gun owners when they are not intentionally maiming another? It is from a lack of training and respect of the weapon.
In the wrong hands, which includes improper storage, a gun can be a source of accidents.

It is the illegal status of LSD that is the harm.
If LSD was legal, people could even go as far as having an abort drug to counter most the LSD potency if for some reason the trip becomes too overwhelming.

Note: I'm not overly familiar with what would be best used to help an overwhelmed psychedelic user calm the fck down. Almost ironically, the FREAK OUT is our fight against losing the ego, letting go, self reflecting without our normal protective shell, etc... So feeling like you are dying or going crazy is therapeutic in some situations.

The people who suffer negatively from LSD should have (which they cannot as it's not legal currently) resolved their demons first or through the use of psychedelic psychotherapy (I suppose they wouldn't necessarily need the psychedelic part but it speeds things up and opens some doors not so easily opened) before tripping in the recreational sense.

There is the the factor (which is a very real one but overly stated by propaganda - not to say one shouldn't heed in many cases) of latent issues within the psyche that could be released as a result of the mind trip. But you see, here is where the conundrum lies: By believing you will flip out and kill yourself, it can be a self-manifesting (self-fulfilling prophecy in other words) belief that would not be there without the tripe we have been assault with by the anti-drug campaign. I was born after the War on Drugs began, I've never known anything but negative and condemning babble from officials and the majority of the population, at least in the USA.


You are HIGHLY sensitive to suggestion. Which is exactly why you don't dose with LSD (or other psychedelics) without set and setting planned.


Again, with MDMA, it is the illegal status and the black market production where the true harm resides.
Secondly, the harm of MDMA also results in mixing with other drugs or dosing with too much and too frequently.

However to list it out from most harmful to least:
1. MDMA
2. LSD

The harms of LSD generally fall under purchasing it illegally and finding out that it was in fact not LSD but something else. Overall, I'm not aware of too many blots being bunk but I'm not a part of the drug scene.

Originally Posted by shivan

however SWIM acknowledges that if SWIM uses LSD regularly over a period of time SWIM can be sure to insane.

What do you mean by regular use? Tolerance builds fast.
Once a week then? For a mentally healthy person even once a week wouldn't push them over the edge in my opinion.
The mental health (perhaps genetics?) of the user is the primary key.
People who have certain psychological problems should not be dosing around with substances that so heavily take one into the non-ordinary state.

If a person is already having problems with perceiving reality as it is (as far as we might call normal or close to) then of course the tripping could fuel their condition.

What do you base your opinion of regular use equals insanity?

Originally Posted by shivan

However, SWIM read somewhere that Esctast damages the brain on the very first trip, problems with lack of endorfines in the brain etc. etc. do not come until later.

Read somewhere? Where?
I imagine damage could be ensured with a high enough first dose.
Everything is toxic at a high enough dose... water is.

They have proven without doubt if I am not mistaken, that one does dump a large proportion of their reservoir of seratonin and it can be some time (months) before you reach your previous fill line. And there is a proven reduction in verbal memory and delayed visual recall-- This slowly comes back.
It's unfortunately they have not dedicated more research to preventative and post maintenance with vitamins/supps to lessen/null oxidation stress. I know there has been some but I'm not sure immediately what has and has not been confirmed to near certainty.

To use people who abuse anything over and over and over or results produced by overdosing lab animals is faulty indeed.

Life long truck drivers can end up with some ailments which are specifically attributed to an enormous amount of time accumulated on the road, being exposed to the never ending bumps (micro trauma) and jerks. We do not typically see that from a moderate or lesser use of vehicle usage.

Hardcore joggers can suffer from knee trauma...

There are dangers in everything we do... from walking across the street to taking a bath or shower.

And just to note the LD50 of LSD is approx. 12,000 ug (from EROWID) and a average to heavy dose ranges from 150 ug to 400 ug+.
Following that ratio, many OTC drugs would end our organs.

Speaking of LSD though, this was released just recently:
1. First LSD-Assisted Psychotherapy Study Begins!

The first subject was treated in Peter Gasser, MD’s LSD/end-of-life anxiety study in Switzerland on May 13th. This marks the beginning of what will become the first LSD-assisted psychotherapy study in over 36 years. While we’re sad that Albert Hofmann didn’t live to actually see the first administration of LSD in this study, we’re glad he knew the study was fully approved and that the initial subject was going to be enrolled in the study soon. This subject’s second and final experimental session will take place on June 27. Dr. Gasser will be writing about the details of this initial research in his report for the upcoming Summer MAPS Bulletin.

So far, generous supporters have pledged $125,000 of the $225,000 needed to complete this important study, and we have faith that enough people will feel called to donate the remaining $100,000.

Reputation Comments on this post:

You put alot of work in it so you derserve it

[Chili]

LSD is not toxic like MDMA or not toxic athole and that is the most important thing.

[Panthers007]

Troll? No. More like a "Plant."

Neither one is toxic if used in a responsible manner. Brain-damage from MDMA was established from tests that didn't use MDMA - the "researcher" used methamphetamine instead. And huge amounts to cook the rat's brains.

If used with proper understanding and precautions, neither is as toxic as the vast majority of over-the-counter medications. Regards LSD making one insane: LSD just brings to the surface that which was there all along. Everyone is insane in somebody's book. No matter what they may do, or don't do.