Drug info - Opiate Guru seeks information on Barbituates.

[kiddgr0tesk]

Although my knowledge of perscription and non perscription "Narcotics" and other Controlled Substance is vast; one area I have found most difficult is too find RELIABLE information on the Recreational Values, Dosages, (for tollerant-naive individuals and high tollerance indiv), expierences etc.

PRIMARLY Phenobarbital. My pharmcological and pharmokenetic knowledge of this substance is suffecient, anything would be of help, thanks.

[moda00]

Tried checking some databases for research articles that would offer such specifics, but most simply covered the pharmacology and whatnot, or addressed polydrug use with only brief mention of barbiturates..

Individual experiences are obviously not to be overgeneralized, but browsing Erowid I got this:

-Methadone maintained individual had 65mg pills (phenobarbital) and took three of them for his first use = 195 mg. Not impressed with the drug/dose, recommends using Ambien and opiates to make better (note- be careful mixing downers, and probably best to avoid altogether with phenobarbital, at least until one knows their body's reaction.. this was simply said individual's statement, and he appeared to have a tolerance to all drugs mentioned except the barbiturates.)

-Barbiturate-naive individual tries for first time- takes three 75 mg tablets phenobarbital = 225 mg. Is asleep within minutes, wakes to find he is still strongly sedated, and resumes sleep. States drug lasts strongly for at least 12 hours, and he was in and out of sleeping for several days. He later tried about 30mg and found that to be good to put him to sleep without the extreme effects, but that this drug is very long lasting and should be treated with caution.

-Individual takes six 64.5 mg tablets (said they were originally intended as veterinary tablets) = 387 mg. Felt somewhat "drunk" and compared to having 3-4 beers, and noted a moderate reduction in anxiety. Overall said he was disappointed.

-Individual took 300 mg, didn't feel effects at 1 hr mark so took another 240 mg phenobarbital, along with his prescribed tramadol 150 mg. Then realized what a long acting drug it is and eventually found himself very drunk-feeling and stumbling around; felt it had been a bad idea because he felt effects too strongly, and for too long (into the following day).

-Individual took 60 mg phenobarbital for his first time. He felt it kicked in in about 30 minutes, felt relaxed, warm, and happy, and fell asleep after about an hour. The next day he took 120 mg, expecting to fall right asleep. Initially disappointed it didn't "knock him out." Felt it come in in about same half hour duration, felt drunk and stumbled around, and eventually passed out/slept. Stated he liked the feelings it gave him- reduced anxiety, relaxation, coziness, but wouldn't use it on a regular basis.

There are far fewer reports on this substance than on most other substances listed, so of course we can't generalize too much from this, but it's a starting point (I personally have no experience with the drug so cannot comment). All the reports seemed to be from young males, average weight, and several were polydrug combinations; the two with synthetic opioid type drugs (methadone/tramadol) I mentioned above, the others were mainly "Fioricet," a pain med with multiple ingredients, so I didn't think that would be very useful. But of all the reports of a barbiturate used alone (or with a prescribed opioid), phenobarbital was the only barbiturate mentioned.

It seems that first time doses (as reported, not independently verified, obviously) ranged from 60 mg to over 300; quite a wide range. It also seemed that there was quite a bit of variation among those who liked it, those who were neutral, and those who disliked it, either because they felt it was not potent enough, or because they felt too strongly impaired. Only input I have is that it's always best to start low... both as a generalization, and based on the fact that the effects can take awhile to come on, and the drug stays in the body for some time, so it seems it's best not to re-dose until one is absolutely sure they are feeling the full effects, if at all.. But it would be good to have more resources available on safe doses, tolerance, etc. for this particular substance, as it is often mentioned as a substance with a high overdose potential and little room for error in dosing. I'd say wait for more info before proceeding.. thanks for bringing this up.

---------------------------------------------
Also, I've found that sometimes a good starting point for dosing info is to look at the medical uses and doses used in those cases. I found the prescribing info for phenobarbital on an epilepsy site, and found this info:

It comes in 15, 30, 60, and 100 mg tabs , and elixir 20mg/5ml. (This may vary by geographic location, and may have varied in the past- although it does call into question experience reports' dosages, when a different measurement is mentioned ie. the 75 mg pills- although certain uses, such as veterinary use of such a drug, could come in different doses, like the 64.5 mg pills also mentioned.)

It also cautions strongly against taking a double dose if one has been forgotten, and mentions that dosing is usually once a day.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Took the time to compile and condense a great deal of barbituate info, which the form is admittedly lacking in

[IntrepidTraveler]

Good write-up Moda00

If the Downers form is missing anything, it is quality information--i.e. experience reports, usage, dose--about old school downers like Barbituates. Zolpidem and the Benzo seem to have practically made barbs obsolete, but they're still around if one is looking for an alternative to the new-age downers..

Swim personally has only one experience with the barbituate phenobarbital--though it was a long time ago when he was still quite naive, so he doesn't even know what his dosage was. He assumes now that it was a high one, because the sedation/intoxication that it brought on far exceeded that of recreational benzodiazepene doses. He felt extremely wasted, and was glued to his chair for the duration of the experience.

As a side note: It doesn't seem like doctors in the US are very likely to perscribe any type of barb in this day and age, but SWIM has noted that it is a very popular class of downers for many foreign pharmacies (i.e. India).

[kiddgr0tesk]

Awesome,

you guys rock, thank you. This actualley is atleast helpful, everything I found was pharmacology. Im a med student at Vjire; I wanted recreational data, not text book data; so for this information thank you.

Well written.